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Post by 1panther on Oct 12, 2014 10:32:23 GMT
so far this season we have lost to hull fife steelers cardiff blaze and all the continental sides. so I am asking whats wrong? ok we lost benedict higgins farmer but we had bucket loads of imports. just asking
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Post by panthermatt on Oct 12, 2014 10:51:07 GMT
We actually beat Hamburg at home so did not lose to all the continental sides. With regards to the games we have lost to sides in the Elite League at the moment with the injuries we have I think we are currently asking players to play a slightly different role than they are used to playing and yes they are professionals so should adapt but it could be why players appear to be struggling for confidence in front o the net at the moment. I do think that one thing we do need to have a look at is someone who is not afraid to drop the gloves but not an out and out goon. I also think once benny, Higgins and farmer are back and playing the team will be a lot better and Cory will be aware of this as when he signed the team he had rolls in mind for the players he has signed and systems in mind. Things will improve and the only thing we need to do is to at this stage keep in touch with the teams at the top also Cory will undoubtably be looking at possibly further recruitments.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 12, 2014 10:52:09 GMT
I don't suppose it helped that there were players here who were short-term and knew it. On top of that, we're playing a lot of games. They're probably knackered.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Oct 12, 2014 10:52:30 GMT
We actually beat Hamburg at home so did not lose to all the continental sides. How did the away game go?  |
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Post by 1panther on Oct 12, 2014 10:55:52 GMT
ok I know we have beaten teams including hamburg but my point is we have also lost far too many games.
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Post by texpef on Oct 12, 2014 11:12:33 GMT
Results so far...
< 0.5 hockey in the challenge cup group games, 1 win in 3 in the league (and not against the so called better sides either) and one win in 6 in the CHL (no surprises but still alot of heavy losses)... these results do not lead anyone to think this team will win anything with these results...
As for injuries, dont make me laugh we had more imports than fife last night and are still putting out a full quota, if we had benedict back it would mean someone else sitting out or even possibly being released with the obvious candidate being Robinson who despite not scoring is probably still our best player...therefore the only real injury worry is farmer and i cant see him changes the dynamic of the team to change us from a 2/3 goals team into a 6/7 goals a game team which is what is needed right now to turn the losses into wins...
Cant believe there is so much wrong with the team with so many gaps in the abilities required and am gobsmacked that corey has let it get to this given he should now be experienced and know what is required in this country. IMHO think we need an agitator, at least one goal scorer, an enforcer and at least one solid stay at home d man. Who to go? Well it seems there are alot of different opinions on this and i am sure as individuals most of the players are a sufficient quality its just they arent performing as required for the panthers so make the cut now and keep making changes till it does work, it isnt like we cant afford it. Its clear sheffield are putting all their eggs in one basket with the quality they have on their first line perhaps thats the quality we should be looking at to replace the underperforming players?
Oh and lastly great decision to play green in coventry, we really could have done with those points we most likely would have got if kwall had played....
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Oct 12, 2014 12:07:32 GMT
Let's get one thing straight.
We beat Hamburg because we had a rare good night,two or three of their real top players were out injured and they came into the NIC thinking it would be easy so we caught them out.
But if they had had their two best Dmen along with the other missing guys and the right attitude we wouldn't have beaten them,just as the away game showed,we were outclassed 6-0.
Basically,the only three imports doing their job so far are Kowalski,Benedict and Jacina,the rest are distinctly average/poor.
People said give them a chance,but it was obvious to see from the start,even before we dropped a puck that this team would be lacking in so many areas.
Not one of the new imports has a resume to make you say yes we want him,not one of them has a definate role to play,there is no grit,no toughness,no flair apart from Robinson who just skates in circles then does nothing at the end of it.
Now look at Sheffields and Belfasts rosters,grit,toughness,skill,quality etc etc.
We had that type of team two years ago,we found the right formula for once.......and then ditched it for some stupid reason.
The fault lies with Corey for signing a bunch of players without signing a team,but it also lies with Mr Black for confusing the issue wishing for a team built for the CHL.
The CHL was ok,but we were never ever going past the group stage,so we should have just signed a team built for the EIHL and let that team play in the CHL and see what happened !
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 12, 2014 17:59:20 GMT
I think Mosey has excelled at his own and someone else's job/position with distinction so far this season. Basically,the only three imports doing their job so far are Kowalski,Benedict and Jacina,the rest are distinctly average/poor. People said give them a chance,but it was obvious to see from the start,even before we dropped a puck that this team would be lacking in so many areas. |
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nate24
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Post by nate24 on Oct 13, 2014 14:09:14 GMT
Why do we always assume there is plenty of money? There must be a reason the Panthers has been sustainable for so long and I am guessing that is not spending into destruction.
I am assuming, like those who assume we have plenty of money, that the money spent on the team is a reflection of the the money the club makes. Neil Black or any other owner will also want some profit, this is a profit making business. Hockey in the UK does not make billions, I dare say it may not even delve that deeply into the millions.
I'm sure we could have a team of super stars for a few seasons but then we'd collapse and we may not have a team at all.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Oct 13, 2014 15:11:53 GMT
I'm sure we could have a team of super stars for a few seasons but then we'd collapse and we may not have a team at all. Is that not just the opposite extreme to the viewpoint you're complaining about though Nate? Spend the world and blow up, or get all our players from the bargain bin to line the owner's pockets. There is ground in between. For my 2p, I don't think we have a cheap team, I've never thought we do. We maybe don't get what we're paying for with certain individuals, but I can't see us being tight for the sake of it. I think Black wants to win, just my impression from hearing him interviewed at various points. Anyway, to the OP it'd be Neilson's fault, if we need someone to blame. They're his signings and systems. He's made a big play of the type of team he wanted - quick skating, skilled etc - so he has to make it work. I reckon, for now, he has to hold his nerve, if he believes this is the way to go. We've got 6 games left in October, 5 against the other conference, I'd at least give it til then and see what happens. I know people will say we could be out of it by then, but unless he's already lost faith in the guys he signed I don't think he should panic into anything. I don't necessarily agree with the makeup of the team in places, there was clearly a direct link between our inability to deal with Nickerson and losing the game on Saturday, but had we cashed in on all that powerplay in P2 wouldn't the view be what a mug Nickerson is? And then of course we got it done on Sunday against the same opponents. So maybe Corey's way can/will win out in the end? I dunno, maybe that's being overly optimistic, very unlike me. Another way to look at it I suppose is that Corey's teams always require mid-season changes, so might as well start early Agree with Dan's point about short term players though. |
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Higgy
Les Strongman
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Post by Higgy on Oct 13, 2014 16:21:37 GMT
I think the main issue has been the players recruited and the style we're trying to play so far this season. The team was signed for the CHL, it was signed for a quick end to end crisp passing game with not much clutch and hold and 'gritty' play. It seems they have struggled to adapt to that style of play in the Elite League, they seem to be struggling with the slower more physical play which you can only put down to player selection in terms of the new imports.
I'm sure there will be changes as I can't see some of the guys we have ever playing the gritty game you need to win things in the UK.
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Post by pantherjack on Oct 13, 2014 16:49:02 GMT
For me it all comes down to motivation. Whether we're talking about the England football team, Panthers or any other under performing team, the stand-out reason for me is self-motivation.
We only need to look at the first couple of months for this year's answers, in that some of the biggest games in certain players careers have just occurred in the CHL. Not surprisingly we managed to show heart, determination and moments of brilliance, despite getting beaten in all but one.
The CHL has put our players in the shop window of far better leagues and clubs. They didn't let themselves down inidividually and make a good account of themselves.
So when not playing CHL they're left with the challenge cup and elite league games which offer very little in the way of opportunity to better yourself and move on to more lucrative situations.
I don't buy the output of the club in that different systems played in european and domestic competitions have hampered our domestic game. Even if it did, that wouldn't account for the fact that individually a lot of the team look like they can't be bothered at times.
If a team has a large core that do care game in-game out, then apart from the obvious better team performance you'd get generally, in time the ones who started out not too bothered will be subconsciously drawn into the mix and their individual performances will improve. I think we saw evidence of that in the grand slam season. You could see on the ice that season that the side was made up largely of very motivated individuals. Stick a great captain in the mix and your halfway there.
This years problems aren't of course exclusive to this season, we've had a lot like this, too many in fact given the supposed calibre of players in the past. That highlights the question as to why Panthers can underperform against the odds in comparison to other teams with similar rosters. Is the off-ice club ethic wrong or are they distractions that aren't apparent in other cities/clubs.
I think that we've had a fair amount of success in Coreys reign and to be honest, I'm not sure you can ask for much more in that period. He and Rick no doubt know what they're doing, so I think you have to look beyond them as to why bad performances happen on occasion.
So how many times have you watched the side and been annoyed by the fact that most of them don't even seem to be trying. You then have to ask, well why is that. Personally I think it's self motivation, for whatever reason.
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Post by pantherdman on Oct 13, 2014 17:01:23 GMT
Coach
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Post by 1panther on Oct 13, 2014 17:15:31 GMT
I personally think that teams have worked us out. we are too predictable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 17:39:41 GMT
We clearly lack physicality. Hearing all Summer that we were building a faster team for the CHL. Well great, that was 6 games and it's fricking over now. Build a team for the league you're in. not some one off tourno. The coaching staff have been around long enough to know the kind of squad needed to compete.
We lack an enforcer on D, maybe even on a wing as well. We're in a glorified beer league, you need a few beer league players or you'll get bullied. Flair players have to have the security blanket to play.
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Post by tootootrain on Oct 13, 2014 18:04:21 GMT
We lack an enforcer on D, maybe even on a wing as well. We're in a glorified beer league, you need a few beer league players or you'll get bullied. Flair players have to have the security blanket to play. I agree we need an 'enforcer' type player (painfully obvious against Fife on Saturday) but what is this British obsession with enforcers on D? D is the last position you want enforcers because of the likelihood of them having to spend time sitting penalties, potentially weakening the d during resultant PKs when you'd need them. This is why the vast majority of enforcers play on the wing, usually third/forth line. As for the original question, the buck always stops with the coach. |
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Oct 13, 2014 18:08:23 GMT
This build a team for the CHL,a fast team built on speed thing ?
Where actually is that team,has anybody noticed that we have tremendous speed over and above what we normally have,because Robinson apart I certainly haven't.
The D is slightly more mobile yes,however Mosey apart you wouldn't exactly call them fast,especially Schmidt he is slow,but the forwards look very similar to normal to me.
There are a couple of interesting twitter quotes from Simmsey recently regarding whether the CHL has cost panthers badly.
He seems to suggest,which certainly rings true,that because Panthers had to sign players extra early to get them here in time for the CHL,that at that time of year there is a real shortage of quality players willing to commit and sign that early.
All the better quality players will sit and wait for their various offers to roll in before committing,hence Panthers ended up with a bunch of average players or the ones thankful to get an offer at all.
It certainly seems to ring true to me,so maybe that's why we have what we have..........very average !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:09:04 GMT
We lack an enforcer on D, maybe even on a wing as well. We're in a glorified beer league, you need a few beer league players or you'll get bullied. Flair players have to have the security blanket to play. I agree we need an 'enforcer' type player (painfully obvious against Fife on Saturday) but what is this British obsession with enforcers on D? D is the last position you want enforcers because of the likelihood of them having to spend time sitting penalties, potentially weakening the d during resultant PKs when you'd need them. This is why the vast majority of enforcers play on the wing, usually third/forth line. As for the original question, the buck always stops with the coach. I guess I'm citing Lepine who was perfect for the role. But yes you're quite correct, wingers are normally the enforcers. |
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Post by panthertom93 on Oct 13, 2014 18:10:56 GMT
Let Robinson go, get Benny back, sign a spare import forward and roll on. Wild, Schmidt and Landry are decent enough Defence. Berube isn't too bad either in my eyes. I personally don't see Parent as a strong player yet but he's grabbed a few assists
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:19:57 GMT
This build a team for the CHL,a fast team built on speed thing ? Where actually is that team,has anybody noticed that we have tremendous speed over and above what we normally have,because Robinson apart I certainly haven't. The D is slightly more mobile yes,however Mosey apart you wouldn't exactly call them fast,especially Schmidt he is slow,but the forwards look very similar to normal to me. There are a couple of interesting twitter quotes from Simmsey recently regarding whether the CHL has cost panthers badly. He seems to suggest,which certainly rings true,that because Panthers had to sign players extra early to get them here in time for the CHL,that at that time of year there is a real shortage of quality players willing to commit and sign that early. All the better quality players will sit and wait for their various offers to roll in before committing,hence Panthers ended up with a bunch of average players or the ones thankful to get an offer at all. It certainly seems to ring true to me,so maybe that's why we have what we have..........very average ! it is a fact normally the better players don't commit til August time. Very naive on CN part he should have realised this |
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wilx
Pat Casey
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Post by wilx on Oct 13, 2014 20:14:07 GMT
Coach, Cory has never had a plan B. The whole league knows our plan A.
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Post by kingmonkeybutt on Oct 13, 2014 20:27:08 GMT
get kelsey wilson out of retirement, and sign colt king
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Post by Mark Mac on Oct 13, 2014 20:40:32 GMT
It has to rest at the coach's feet. Seems to be the same every season. Maybe CN has too much of a focus on getting his plan perfect so much so that he gets tunnel vision so ignores/doesn't even consider other options. For example, when we do a PP, we cycle so much that often we completely waste PPs with very few shots. I'm not saying shoot all the time, but if you keep trying to find the perfect shot, every team will know what you're doing so will be able to react to it easily. As someone said above, we are an incredibly predictable team.
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Post by samjohnson345 on Oct 14, 2014 11:56:36 GMT
People will probably scoff but I would be coaxing Jordan Fox into training for two weeks (or however long we keep Robinson) and then snapping him up. He is the whole package, he's gritty and a tough nut to crack in terms of not letting the team lose, he is a great forechecker and checker in general, and he has some of the best hands I have ever seen (THAT Sheffield goal oh wow). Also I believe his natural leadership characteristics will only help us. He is currently without a club and has openly said he loves Nottingham. I for one, really hope it happens, he was a player who made me on the edge of my seat every time he stepped on the ice, but hey that's only my opinion.
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Post by ted logan on Oct 14, 2014 12:01:00 GMT
People will probably scoff but I would be coaxing Jordan Fox into training for two weeks (or however long we keep Robinson) and then snapping him up. He is the whole package, he's gritty and a tough nut to crack in terms of not letting the team lose, he is a great forechecker and checker in general, and he has some of the best hands I have ever seen (THAT Sheffield goal oh wow). Also I believe his natural leadership characteristics will only help us. He is currently without a club and has openly said he loves Nottingham. I for one, really hope it happens, he was a player who made me on the edge of my seat every time he stepped on the ice, but hey that's only my opinion. I wouldn't scoff at all. Totally agree - apart from the 'edge of the seat' bit. You're not allowed to do that in the NIC y'know  |
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