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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 8, 2010 19:34:03 GMT
I'd like the quality of EIHL officials to improve so that clean hits don't result in PIMs.
But since when has a D man who doesn't nail players to the boards been classed as 'second-rate'? Surely the measure of a d-man is their overall defensive quality, not their occassinal hitting ability?
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Jul 8, 2010 19:38:39 GMT
Bergin had 5 fights 07/08 compared to Shmyr's 18. He had 11 fights 08/09 compared to Ndur's 11. He had 7 last year compared to D'Amour's 7.
Difference is this, Shmyr played all season and was expected to fight. Bergy was a luxury we had. Ndur was paid to replace Shmyr but spent most of the season injured, he only played 36 games. The 11 fights doesn't include him skating round Hull Arena after anything that moved, particularly Kozak. Last season we didn't have an enforcer and went for team toughness... Bergin had 7, D'Amour 7, Richardson 6, Lee 5, Dalgleish 4 & Neilson 4.
We are having another enforcer this season, and if he beats the EIHL record for most fights in a season, which McMorrow holds at 25, then we are still gonna need someone to help out. Belfast had 44 fights last season, equal with us, McMorrow had 25 which leaves 19 that we need to 'find' elsewhere. I don't wanna see Henderson and Neilson filling those boots more often and we can't expect a 20 year old Brit to either.
So my point is this, IMO I agree with Zukiwskyfan. We need a Dman who is willing to fight big guys about 8-10 times this year, someone like who plays like Rees and Norris but is a bigger unit. I'm not saying that the guy needs to fight at least 8 times, but he has got to be willing to drop them with the heavies.
I have said it before to friends, whilst I wouldn't have him back because of what we have seen from him last season, D'Amour would fit the bill. He fought 7 times last season against big guys and his CV is pretty damn good. If he didn't play in the EIHL last year and signed as a new guy this season then he would be what I am expecting.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 8, 2010 21:51:32 GMT
If the last D-man gets into fights, then I'm hoping that he doesn't start them - just finishes them.
We absolutely must have a stronger defence than last season... that's not intimidation (which only works part of the time anyway)or just punching people (ditto) but blocking shots, blocking passes, stealing the puck, cutting down on angles, checking them off the puck where possible... basically stopping them from doing what they want to do - but with our guy staying on the ice as well - not in the penalty box! A strong stay-at-home D-man who simply gets on with the job... it's a necessity. Granted, I'd love to see one who checks opposing players so hard you can see the tweeting birds circling their heads, and sadly that will often result in a penalty or two (deserved or not)... but not just swinging the fists. Drop the gloves if he absolutely must... but only if he must. Play for the win... that's the key, surely?
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Post by buster on Jul 8, 2010 23:08:32 GMT
does that player even exist, shaggy?
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Post by buster on Jul 8, 2010 23:12:17 GMT
I'd like the quality of EIHL officials to improve so that clean hits don't result in PIMs. But since when has a D man who doesn't nail players to the boards been classed as 'second-rate'? Surely the measure of a d-man is their overall defensive quality, not their occassinal hitting ability? you initially based your opinion on the quality of a defenceman on his ability to stay out of the box. i questioned that. would you rather have someone of a poorer standard with the ability to avoid penalties, or a top end aggressive 'linchpin' defenceman who will sit when he needs to?
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 9, 2010 3:29:11 GMT
Is there only the two choices when it comed to D-men then? 'Poor', non-fighting and good brawlers? Are there no shades of grey beween those extremes?
As I said, I like big hitting hockey player as much as the next man, I just don't have confidence in the abilities of EIHL officials to deal with such play. If big hitters are required I'd rather they had been employed in the forward lines.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 9, 2010 6:05:53 GMT
Is there only the two choices when it comed to D-men then? 'Poor', non-fighting and good brawlers? Are there no shades of grey beween those extremes? I'm sure there are. Personally, I'm not - and never have been - totally opposed to fighting per se... just against this IMHO ridiculous obsession with fighting. A big stay-at-home D-man who can fight if pushed to it, but doesn't start fights - that's what I'm after. A defenceman whose sole purpose is to defend... that's all. Fair point... although I think we need big hitters at both ends of the ice, they do seem to be better employed in the forwards (if nothing else, when they get binned for clean hits, at least that doesn't tear holes in our defence!). We'll just have to see how inclined McDonald, Ryan and Sproat are towards delivering big checks.
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
I really do look like this.
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Robbie Nud on Jul 9, 2010 12:11:41 GMT
Are people not describing Brian Thompson?
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Zukiwskyfan
Simon Hunt
ENL heavyweight champ
Posts: 1,115
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Post by Zukiwskyfan on Jul 9, 2010 13:14:23 GMT
Are people not describing Brian Thompson? I'd prefer a Clayton Norris
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 9, 2010 17:10:44 GMT
If the Steelers go under, what about bringing in Steve Munn?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2010 17:35:02 GMT
I think its bad form to `cherry pick` players like what happened with Bison, besides i don t want them to go under.
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Post by Heanor Lair on Jul 9, 2010 18:17:14 GMT
I think its bad form to `cherry pick` players like what happened with Bison, besides i don t want them to go under. I think its more fun to abuse them when they are there rather than when they are not there HL
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jul 9, 2010 18:30:36 GMT
Sod bad form, if there are players to be had lets look into it
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Post by buster on Jul 9, 2010 19:06:32 GMT
Is there only the two choices when it comed to D-men then? 'Poor', non-fighting and good brawlers? Are there no shades of grey beween those extremes? As I said, I like big hitting hockey player as much as the next man, I just don't have confidence in the abilities of EIHL officials to deal with such play. If big hitters are required I'd rather they had been employed in the forward lines. im not saying that, but those are the only two options you listed. as a result of this, those are the options i questioned you about.
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Post by glenngiant on Jul 9, 2010 20:03:53 GMT
I wouldn't agree that its a bad think to 'cherry pick' of a struggling team, the Giants did it with Bison who couldn't afford to pay their players.
Lyle and Pete Campbell came in and turned our season around, and afterall its up to the players at the end of the day they have to make a living and want to have certain assurances about their job.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 9, 2010 20:11:00 GMT
Is there only the two choices when it comed to D-men then? 'Poor', non-fighting and good brawlers? Are there no shades of grey beween those extremes? As I said, I like big hitting hockey player as much as the next man, I just don't have confidence in the abilities of EIHL officials to deal with such play. If big hitters are required I'd rather they had been employed in the forward lines. im not saying that, but those are the only two options you listed. as a result of this, those are the options i questioned you about. Can you point out where I said I wanted a poor quality D man in my initial posts in this thread?
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Post by buster on Jul 9, 2010 20:17:33 GMT
my own perception is that you would go for someone of poorer quality than a, as you described it a, linchpin defenceman. furthering from this point i deducted that you would prefer someone of lesser quality to wear a panthers jersey than a freight train that wont stand for any grief on his home ice. linchpin or in relation a poor quality defenceman, the choice is yours.
well its not really your choice because you'd go for the lesser quality "safe bet" option rather than the best man for the job, wouldnt you?
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 9, 2010 21:18:56 GMT
Nope, I'd go for a best D man the Panthers could get, but one who won't spend half his time fighting and the other half sat in the penalty box.
A 'lynch pin' doesn't need to be a freight train. Taking a player from team thats closer to my heart than the Panthers as an example, Lidstrom of the Detroit Red Wings, he is the proof that quality defensemen don't need to be freight trains.
I'm not suggesting buying Lidstrom but he is not a lone example of a good defensive player who doesn't need to nail folks to the boards to get the job done.
To repeat myself though, I'd love a heavy hitting d-man, if I thought they'd be able to do their job unhindered by the 'penalties for the result rather than the action' reffing.
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Post by oneillthegiant on Jul 9, 2010 21:38:00 GMT
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Post by buster on Jul 10, 2010 0:23:42 GMT
Nope, I'd go for a best D man the Panthers could get, but one who won't spend half his time fighting and the other half sat in the penalty box. A 'lynch pin' doesn't need to be a freight train. Taking a player from team thats closer to my heart than the Panthers as an example, Lidstrom of the Detroit Red Wings, he is the proof that quality defensemen don't need to be freight trains. I'm not suggesting buying Lidstrom but he is not a lone example of a good defensive player who doesn't need to nail folks to the boards to get the job done. To repeat myself though, I'd love a heavy hitting d-man, if I thought they'd be able to do their job unhindered by the 'penalties for the result rather than the action' reffing. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linchpinjust saying is all. i dont want to be a dick about it, maybe its the teacher in me, but you've repeatedly got it wrong and ii cant help myself give you the correct spelling. as for a defenceman, i was only working on what information you provided. im not so niave that i assume there is no middle ground, personally i want someone who can send a message. toneys was all well and good but a powerhouse who can level people, which will make the opposition think twice about skating into our zone would be perfect. someone who doesnt have to do anything to put the fear into players. if he has to sit for 2 minutes because he shows the opposition what he is capable of, then so be it. if he needs to back it up then so be it, but what i don expect is another half hearted big guy who laughs off fights and looks like an idiot for doing so. id rather see my guy get knocked out rather than shy away from a fight (quite apt after tonight!).
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Post by buster on Jul 10, 2010 0:27:53 GMT
uh-oh, incorrect spelling and grammar on my part!
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Post by ted logan on Jul 10, 2010 9:45:04 GMT
Seen this guy mentioned before and would be a great signing if we could get him ;D
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Post by texpef on Jul 10, 2010 11:07:03 GMT
I think its bad form to `cherry pick` players like what happened with Bison, besides i don t want them to go under. Think you are probably more concerned with your missus season ticket money that bad form eh Pidge?...
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Post by messier1851 on Jul 10, 2010 11:40:28 GMT
Played with Sproat at Cincinatti last season. Stats look good, big guy as well. Great name too!
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jul 10, 2010 12:32:04 GMT
Zinger would fit the bill perfectly.
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