|
Post by overthelake on Oct 5, 2009 20:19:07 GMT
After thinking about the toatl joke yesterday, I do not believe the players did not try, I believ we were just not good enough.
The team was totally disorganised
Took the wee wee out the fans who had paid good money to see a totally joke of a performance.
No respect to the fans at the end.
For those who state that we should concentrate on the league is ok if you were told before.
Tell that to my Wife and 3 kids who I took today.
They feel let down by the Panthers management, coach and the players.
Just when they want you to fork out for the Coventry game as it not on the season ticket I feel some fans will vote with there feet.
One word for the Panthers yesterday was a POOR on round show.
And to say we were committed to the tornament is total taking the wee wee once again.
|
|
oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
|
Post by oldman on Oct 5, 2009 21:50:09 GMT
After thinking about the toatl joke yesterday, I do not believe the players did not try, I believ we were just not good enough. The team was totally disorganised Took the wee wee out the fans who had paid good money to see a totally joke of a performance. No respect to the fans at the end. For those who state that we should concentrate on the league is ok if you were told before. Tell that to my Wife and 3 kids who I took today. They feel let down by the Panthers management, coach and the players. Just when they want you to fork out for the Coventry game as it not on the season ticket I feel some fans will vote with there feet. One word for the Panthers yesterday was a POOR on round show. And to say we were committed to the tornament is total taking the wee wee once again. first you say on reflection they did try, then you say they were taking the pi$$ you cannot have it both ways, so try this one we lost big deal get over it move on to the next game! Unless of course you think the team conspired to lose it just to spite you! As I keep saying you paid to watch 8 teams in this tournament did you see 8 teams then?
|
|
|
Post by thebestpanthers on Oct 5, 2009 22:01:22 GMT
As I keep saying you paid to watch 8 teams in this tournament did you see 8 teams then?[/quote]
I paid to SUPPORT ONE TEAM in a competition that I thought they would do well in - I hoped there would be a good atmosphere - I do not like the Sheffield Arena - I can think of a number of other ways i could have spent my money - but I went to SUPPORT MY TEAM - and I feel let down - end of
|
|
oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
|
Post by oldman on Oct 5, 2009 22:46:29 GMT
As I keep saying you paid to watch 8 teams in this tournament did you see 8 teams then? I paid to SUPPORT ONE TEAM in a competition that I thought they would do well in - I hoped there would be a good atmosphere - I do not like the Sheffield Arena - I can think of a number of other ways i could have spent my money - but I went to SUPPORT MY TEAM - and I feel let down - end of[/quote] did you support your team, i reckon yes! They did not do as well as you hoped but there are no guarantees of success with your ticket, did Hull, Caps, Giants fans support their team? As for the shuff arena that was the main reason i didn't go and thank god for that! So who is to blame then Corey the team, the org, fate luck, cov played better, or just maybe the Elite for knocking up this stupid money making idea, now, rather than pre season when it would be a viable tournament to take part in!
|
|
|
Post by grumpyminer on Oct 5, 2009 23:12:37 GMT
My take on this is not the resting of players, I have only a slight problem with that. It was the on-ice tactics one D and three F when everyone else went 2 D and 2 F. We watch hockey week in, week out and recognise the fact that when teams go 4-on-4 in a normal game, most goals come from breakaways. So why think that 1D is gonna work. Our lines were totally shambolic - it was like last season, when we couldn't keep the goals out - and were the reason we got mullered.
|
|
Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
|
Post by Shorty on Oct 6, 2009 7:51:35 GMT
This thread seems to quite evenly split.
Those that went and are dissapointed with the teams performanc/tactics/lack of effort/cost and time wasted
Those that didnt go who are toeing the "I told you so" line/on a wind up/dont get the point that most fans who did go are trying to make.
I think its pretty much run its course now and this weekends effort and results will go someway to answering their critics
|
|
|
Post by howeaboutthat on Oct 6, 2009 8:44:00 GMT
This thread seems to quite evenly split. Those that went and are dissapointed with the teams performanc/tactics/lack of effort/cost and time wasted Those that didnt go who are toeing the "I told you so" line/on a wind up/dont get the point that most fans who did go are trying to make. I think its pretty much run its course now and this weekends effort and results will go someway to answering their critics I think you're being a bit disingenuous there. Is rational thinking, taking into account other factors and offering alternative comment such a taboo around these here parts that if you dare step away from the status quo you are lumped in with "told you so", being a wind-up merchant or labeled as 'missing point'? I'm one of those who didn't go and I'm neither saying "told you so" (as I had no view one way or the other before the competition other than I felt the venue was wrong and it was being held at the wrong time) nor on the wind-up nor am 'missing the point' those who went are trying to make. I have said that Panthers organisation should have made their intentions clear as to if they were taking the tournament seriously so the fans could have better judged whether to go, but being a realist I've also mentioned that were the Panthers organisation to have done this and the event flopped due to lack of interest the retribution from EIHL under pressure from 7 other GMs would no doubt have been swift and harsh. This is called taking into account all factors, not just the complaints of those who are upset they've spent a fair few quid for very little. I've also said I fully agree with the decision to rest players. I'm a fairly recent convert to Panthers hockey but even in this short time speaking to many different Panthers fans from young to old, male, female and not sure, I've picked up the underlying current common to many which is the 'pain' of having not won the league in so long. Now if someone like me who only sits in the stand and visits 'The Cage' can pick up this under current of shame at under-achieving for so long I can only imagine that Mr Neilson, front and centre of every Panthers fans attention, is starkly aware and has set out his stall with primarily the league in mind. As I said, yes its unfortunate for those who went that the Panthers organisation didn't make their intentions clear before hand so that Panthers fans could make up their mind based on that but realistically (bearing all things in mind) they couldn't have, the EIHL would have teared them a new a$$. Hopefully though the event won't be happening again or if it does it'll be a proper pre-season event, which may mean that all teams won't take it seriously through fear of giving away the teams strengths or weaknesses or picking up injuries before the season starts proper, in which case it'll be an even less important event than it is now.
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 6, 2009 9:20:37 GMT
Whereas I didn't go but am fully in the corner of those who did and came back feeling cheated.
If, as I think you're suggesting, Howe, the enthusiasm or otherwise of the Panthers organisation for something like this genuinely makes or breaks it, I would have thought that the league would do all they can to keep us on side rather than punishing us for opting out: what form, I'm also wondering, would any 'swift and harsh' retribution take, do you think?
I'd say that the Panthers should value their own support more highly than the league value the Panthers involvement because its within their ranks that the clubs financial muscle originates: the club should not trade the commitment of their fans against the possible wrath of the league/other GMs under any circumstances whatsoever.
|
|
Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
|
Post by Doughnut on Oct 6, 2009 9:29:12 GMT
what form, I'm also wondering, would any 'swift and harsh' retribution take, do you think? Just speculating and playing a little devil's advocate but they could 'clarify the rules' to stop us from swapping Molin in/out whenever we feel like it. They could also pick a random legal check and ban a player for a while like they did with Voth for having the audacity to check Tait when his head was down
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 6, 2009 9:42:30 GMT
what form, I'm also wondering, would any 'swift and harsh' retribution take, do you think? Just speculating and playing a little devil's advocate but they could 'clarify the rules' to stop us from swapping Molin in/out whenever we feel like it. Does that mean they'd strip us of our 8th place 20/20 finish? I appreciate the mischief but I thought the 'Molin' rule was clear: teams - all teams - can have any number of registered import players at any given time up to a maximum of 15 for the season but can use no more than 11 of them for any one game. Is that right?
|
|
|
Post by howeaboutthat on Oct 6, 2009 9:49:00 GMT
Number9 - I agree, the club should bear the wishes of its fans over and above that of the EIHL/other 7 GMs, but thats not the way the sports business works.
Supposing Panthers organisation had told the fans honestly that they weren't interested in the 20/20 tournament that EIHL had been marketing and wouldn't be sending the team. That'd be honest to the fans rightly enough, but the event would have folded (how do you play a 7 team tournament thats fair to all teams on one day?), the EIHL would have lost out, 7 other GMs would have lost out and I'm not sure many of them would have been happy about that.
Are you saying that there is no way the EIHL could or would 'punish' the Panthers for such a thing? They are hardly the most level headed of orgainsations (as shown by the rush job to get the 20/20 sorted) and I wouldn't have put it past them do something rash which they later regretted, though would never admit to.
Of course the other option (other than the one they took) was actually treat the tournament as if they gave a damn about it and enter a full strength team, hey if they did that they may have even won the cup, and it'd be Steelers/Blaze fans calling it a 'Mickey Mouse Cup' now. But what if in doing so a few players had been injured (as other teams have had)? Would those notoriously fickle Panthers fans, come the end of the season when the Panthers just fail to win the league, turn on Mr Neilson for putting so much effort into winning a tip pot rather than concentrating on the long missing league title or would they just say "well at least we won the 20/20"?
There are more options though; that the Panthers took the 20/20 seriously and won it/didn't win it, but also won the league or that the Panther took the 20/20 seriously, won it/didn't win it but also failed to win the league.
Its all guesswork, you can only work with probabilities and a few certainties.
Considering the injuries picked up by other teams Neilson did right not playing key players because its probable we'd have picked up some too. Its probable that having picked up injuries it'll have affected the Panthers league performance. Its also probable that if Neilson doesn't deliver the league this year that most Panthers fans certainly want they'll be calling for his head, if he had delivered a worthy 20/20 performance or not, probably.
|
|
Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
|
Post by Doughnut on Oct 6, 2009 9:50:10 GMT
Just speculating and playing a little devil's advocate but they could 'clarify the rules' to stop us from swapping Molin in/out whenever we feel like it. Does that mean they'd strip us of our 8th place 20/20 finish? I appreciate the mischief but I thought the 'Molin' rule was clear: teams - all teams - can have any number of registered import players at any given time up to a maximum of 15 for the season but can use no more than 11 of them for any one game. Is that right? Let me see, I'll just go and check the rule book ... ah, erm ... Rules just don't work like that in this sport in this country
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,439
|
Post by Yotes on Oct 6, 2009 10:07:28 GMT
I appreciate the mischief but I thought the 'Molin' rule was clear: teams - all teams - can have any number of registered import players at any given time up to a maximum of 15 for the season but can use no more than 11 of them for any one game. Is that right? 10 per night isn't it? But yes that's how I understand it.
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 6, 2009 10:11:19 GMT
Number9 - I agree, the club should bear the wishes of its fans over and above that of the EIHL/other 7 GMs, but thats not the way the sports business works. Supposing Panthers organisation had told the fans honestly that they weren't interested in the 20/20 tournament that EIHL had been marketing and wouldn't be sending the team. That'd be honest to the fans rightly enough, but the event would have folded (how do you play a 7 team tournament thats fair to all teams on one day?), the EIHL would have lost out, 7 other GMs would have lost out and I'm not sure many of them would have been happy about that. Are you saying that there is no way the EIHL could or would 'punish' the Panthers for such a thing? They are hardly the most level headed of orgainsations (as shown by the rush job to get the 20/20 sorted) and I wouldn't have put it past them do something rash which they later regretted, though would never admit to. Of course the other option (other than the one they took) was actually treat the tournament as if they gave a damn about it and enter a full strength team, hey if they did that they may have even won the cup, and it'd be Steelers/Blaze fans calling it a 'Mickey Mouse Cup' now. But what if in doing so a few players had been injured (as other teams have had)? Would those notoriously fickle Panthers fans, come the end of the season when the Panthers just fail to win the league, turn on Mr Neilson for putting so much effort into winning a tip pot rather than concentrating on the long missing league title or would they just say "well at least we won the 20/20"? There are more options though; that the Panthers took the 20/20 seriously and won it/didn't win it, but also won the league or that the Panther took the 20/20 seriously, won it/didn't win it but also failed to win the league. Its all guesswork, you can only work with probabilities and a few certainties. Considering the injuries picked up by other teams Neilson did right not playing key players because its probable we'd have picked up some too. Its probable that having picked up injuries it'll have affected the Panthers league performance. Its also probable that if Neilson doesn't deliver the league this year that most Panthers fans certainly want they'll be calling for his head, if he had delivered a worthy 20/20 performance or not, probably. Still overlooks the shabby treatment meted out to the fans though. There's also the fact that the subsequent press from the Panthers camp unnecessarily continues with the apparently bogus line that we were fully committed. One person from within the Panthers camp announcing up front that the tournament was a side show of little consequence may have resulted in a ticking off from the league but the most comfortable option in the short term isn't always the morally correct one.
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 6, 2009 10:15:14 GMT
I appreciate the mischief but I thought the 'Molin' rule was clear: teams - all teams - can have any number of registered import players at any given time up to a maximum of 15 for the season but can use no more than 11 of them for any one game. Is that right? 10 per night isn't it? But yes that's how I understand it. Ben 10, Kevin 11; meh.
|
|
|
Post by howeaboutthat on Oct 6, 2009 10:46:36 GMT
Number9 - Since when has modern business been about morals?
We all (I'm hoping, otherwise why are folk on here) like ice hockey. To us it is a sport, to the owners of the teams (the bigger ones at least) and the EIHL the sport we love is a business, plain and simple.
Team 'A' win the league and the marketing people say "brilliant, lets get some stuff knocked up with the fact we've won printed on it and sell it to the fans". We support a team but we are not the team, we are the cash flow. That may sound hard to some but its a simple fact of business. As I've said (repeatedly), the way the Panthers organisation treated the fans was not good but its business.
Its the same in professional soccer, its the same in professional rugby, its the same in professional motor sports etc. As soon as sports become 'professional' its a business.
For all the whinging (warranted or not) about the Panthers performance at the 20/20 on this forum people will still turn up week in week out. Consider that from the large fan base the Panthers have only about 1000 went to the event, then consider we have on the various threads about the 20/20 only (I'd guesstimate) about 40 odd people commenting with the split about 20/80 for/against Neilson's decision to field a weak team. Is the 'anger' over his action or the support for the 20/20 that widespread throughout the Panthers fan base?
We (I'm just as guilty) as forum users often forget that our little world on forums such as these isn't necessarily 'the word on the street'. Its the mumblings of a certain sort of fan who considers their interest in a sport important enough to converse with others over the internet about, but that doesn't make our opinion any more worthy or any more 'real' than many folk who don't use forums.
My wife is a life long Panthers fan, not a season ticket holder, we've spent far too long moving about the country to make that a sensible choice, but a lifelong supporter nonetheless. She doesn't use the forum and she couldn't have cared less about the 20/20, in fact she was far more 'anti' it than I by a long shot. The season ticket holders we were sat among in block 4 on Saturday also, to a person, couldn't care less about the tournament. I'll be surprised if they weren't saddened by the manor in which the Panthers were beaten and by whom but they said they had no interest in the 20/20. How many other fans within the thousands that attend the NIC regularly think the same?
Anywhere, where am I going with this....ah...thats it. The team is a business and businesses are in the business to supply something and as I've said before, in my humble opinion, that 'something' Panthers fans want more than anything is the league title. As an aside people shouldn't take the ranting and chinfing on forums to be representative of the group they consider themselves part of because usually those on internet forums take themselves and what they say far too seriously (guilty).
And with that I will step off this thread. I feel I've made my pov very apparent and I fear we are just circling the buoy now.
|
|
oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
|
Post by oldman on Oct 6, 2009 20:02:16 GMT
Shorty things are not just black and white mate!
I didn't go because I hate the place and a few hours in those seats means I may end up with another back injury, but some good friends of mine did go, so I understand their anger and I am certainly not gloating about their misfortune!
I was looking at the bigger picture and to be frank just dam glad we had no injuries from a pointless tournament to fill the coffers of the elite league!
I stated I would not go on page one so the outcome on the day had no bearing on that decision, where I question this thread is that before we get out the pitchfork and light the fire under Corey think about this!
The same posters who are moaning that we should have gone with a better team , are probably the same posters that if we had gone with a full team and had some major injuries, would be having a go for getting top imports injured in a meaningless tournament!
As always everyone is an expert with hindsight, but Corey made the call as he saw it in real time!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2009 20:05:34 GMT
+1 corey is coach, he can put out whatever team he wants, this has been done to death now , like someone else said, it doesn t stat on the back of match tickets that full strength teams will play .
|
|
|
Post by tubes44 on Oct 7, 2009 9:00:15 GMT
so you'd be happy for an understrength team to play in the league because there was a cup final the next week???
|
|
Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
|
Post by Doughnut on Oct 7, 2009 9:51:34 GMT
Or a team with 5 imports all season because it doesn't say on the season tickets that they'll have 10?
There are plenty of arguments for/against what Panthers did last Sunday but an excuse of "It doesn't say on the tickets that we'll try to win so what are you complaining about?" is frankly ridiculous.
Note: I'm not suggesting that this excuse is being used by the club, if it were I'd be annoyed rather than just laughing at Pidge.
|
|
lee
David Clarke
Posts: 3,712
|
Post by lee on Oct 7, 2009 11:12:07 GMT
seriously 23 pages!!!
eventss over, done, panthers lost. lets move on.
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 7, 2009 11:49:29 GMT
24 now you posted that...
|
|
|
Post by Number 9.1 on Oct 7, 2009 12:46:39 GMT
+1 corey is coach, he can put out whatever team he wants, this has been done to death now , like someone else said, it doesn t stat on the back of match tickets that full strength teams will play . It does usually say 'versus' somewhere on the ticket though, doesn't it?
|
|
Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
|
Post by Milkman™ on Oct 7, 2009 13:10:47 GMT
It does usually say 'versus' somewhere on the ticket though, doesn't it? You thinking sale of goods/services act?
|
|
oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
Posts: 1,111
|
Post by oldman on Oct 7, 2009 16:25:18 GMT
+1 corey is coach, he can put out whatever team he wants, this has been done to death now , like someone else said, it doesn t stat on the back of match tickets that full strength teams will play . It does usually say 'versus' somewhere on the ticket though, doesn't it? no in this case i believe they paid to be at a hockeyfest, no sign of versus on the ticket required really! epic fail! nevermind though carry on stirring the pot!
|
|