Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 1, 2009 13:06:56 GMT
... well, part of it at least (again!)
Mike O'Connor posted the following on SquealBleat SteelTalk this morning:-
Now I know that anything that comes out of that office needs to be looked at very carefully before being believed, but with the talk of legal action (and actually naming the law firm involved!) it seems legit. And Eurologix have a bad rep already.
Whilst I have absolutely zero love for that bunch of <deleted>-merchants up the road, this surely has to be a very bad thing - worse for the Steelers, but not helping the rest of us either. It might also go some way to explaining the suspicions recently raised about possible reductions in Steeler finances.
OK, being brutally honest - a small part of me can't help but take a certain amount of delight in seeing that lot take some crap.... but we're all hockey people when all's said and done, and what hurts one eventually hurts all to some extent.
Wonder if there's any way for the hockey community to give Eurologix a kick in the danglers? Suggestions on a postcard, c/o Mike O'Connor, I think...
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Post by ted on Aug 1, 2009 13:13:58 GMT
I heard this midway through last season that they werent paying up.
Id say make the details (what they can) well publicised to give them bad rep... but in all honesty.... I dont think the hockey community is big enough for them to care.
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Outlaw
Lorne Smith
JUST LIKE JESSE JAMES,.......
Posts: 729
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Post by Outlaw on Aug 1, 2009 13:50:55 GMT
I heard last week that the "Outstanding Monies" are ALL of last seasons sponsorship monies,....
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
you know how much I love you guys
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Post by Helen B on Aug 1, 2009 14:14:16 GMT
For those of you who don't know the legal firm mentioned are also sponsors of the Steelers.
Ashton Morton Slack ran the £250 challenge at the start of each period last season. If the Steelers scored in the 1st minute then the lucky person chosen would win £250. I think we had somewhere between 6 and 10 winners.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
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Post by Milkman™ on Aug 1, 2009 15:35:02 GMT
To be honest when I read this, I sort of thought to myself what goes around comes around.
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Mythosman
Matt Myers
Age is a big price to pay for maturity!
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Post by Mythosman on Aug 1, 2009 16:04:31 GMT
Not wishing a bum sponsor on any team - no club can realistically absorb unpaid sponsorship monies once budgeted for and spent, but have the Steelers never heard of 'due diligence'? - the process of reviewing the commercial aspects of a company's business, to ensure that their claims about their business are accurate. In Eurologix case, the way they abandoned Telford must have been a fair indication that they may have been just slightly dodgy to deal with?
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Post by Heanor Lair on Aug 1, 2009 16:13:24 GMT
To be honest when I read this, I sort of thought to myself what goes around comes around. And to think Eurologix were part of the 'Steelers family' - Jeez that family has more disfunctional members... ;D HL
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Post by Heanor Lair on Aug 1, 2009 16:16:37 GMT
I heard this midway through last season that they werent paying up. Id say make the details (what they can) well publicised to give them bad rep... but in all honesty.... I dont think the hockey community is big enough for them to care. TeddyC - sorry but it aint Panthers problem. If Steelers get into bed with these sort of characters then what can you do? They only had to read Keefes posts last year to realise it would end in tears. Frankly Steelers will take money of anyone - if the Cageforum offered to sponsor them and they be called 'The Cageforum Steelers they would do it -nobodys money is dirty enough for Uncle Bob. HL
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
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Post by Milkman™ on Aug 1, 2009 16:22:50 GMT
nobodys money is dirty enough for Uncle Bob. HL Or Norton before him, or Browny before him. I see a pattern emerging. As I say what goes around comes around, and to think of all that free TV advertising they got with massive viewing figures quoted.
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Post by heja on Aug 1, 2009 16:28:17 GMT
no wonder it looks like there cutting team costs this year, and saying there sticking to the wage cap only because they cant afford to break it.
TBH i cannot see Field Electrical offering anywhere near the money Eurologix said they were going to give and also no where near what the GMB offer
Makes you wonder why steelers go through main team sponsers so often though, have they had one for more than a season yet since bob took over steelers especially when winning
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by doug on Aug 1, 2009 16:33:23 GMT
This really doesn't become you Heanor Lair. It's the same with Milkman and Shaggy. Are you so naive as to think that Panthers have some sort of moral superiority over Steelers? Oh yes of course there have been occasions in the past when dodgy dealings occurred with dodgy owners but, don't try to tell us that your management will only accept sponsorship from Bible sellers. I'll steel myself awaiting the posts of one sided critics spouting piety. ( That's reserved for me).
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Post by ted on Aug 1, 2009 16:40:00 GMT
I heard this midway through last season that they werent paying up. Id say make the details (what they can) well publicised to give them bad rep... but in all honesty.... I dont think the hockey community is big enough for them to care. TeddyC - sorry but it aint Panthers problem. If Steelers get into bed with these sort of characters then what can you do? They only had to read Keefes posts last year to realise it would end in tears. Frankly Steelers will take money of anyone - if the Cageforum offered to sponsor them and they be called 'The Cageforum Steelers they would do it -nobodys money is dirty enough for Uncle Bob. HL I never said it was panthers problem.... I just said, as I had heard at the time, midway though last season they were paying up.... and also to answer shaggys post.... Steelers should make it as public as possible the eurologix cant afford to/wont pay them.... its not up to panthers to do that for them. Harsh lessons to be learned for all, as said though,. might explain the 'sticking strictly to the wage cap' issue.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 1, 2009 16:41:51 GMT
To be honest when I read this, I sort of thought to myself what goes around comes around. That thought had occurred to me, too.... Not wishing a bum sponsor on any team - no club can realistically absorb unpaid sponsorship monies once budgeted for and spent, but have the Steelers never heard of 'due diligence'? - the process of reviewing the commercial aspects of a company's business, to ensure that their claims about their business are accurate. In Eurologix case, the way they abandoned Telford must have been a fair indication that they may have been just slightly dodgy to deal with? You'd have thought so, wouldn't you? Seems like a case of the thought of incoming cash driving out all common sense... Still, it's hardly just the Steelers. Look at the league itself and the so-called 'due diligence' concerning a recent owner of Basingstoke? TeddyC - sorry but it aint Panthers problem. Maybe not directly - but it concerns us all when ANY team in the league gets shafted money-wise. Granted, if it had to happen to any club, I couldn't think of more wortthy candidates, but even so... what hurts one eventually hurts us all. Makes you wonder why steelers go through main team sponsers so often though, have they had one for more than a season yet since bob took over steelers especially when winning Fair point. How many main-team sponsors? (How many owners? How many bankruptcy proceedings?) The Panthers - well, Neil Black, I suppose - can hardly be said to be pure as the driven snow (like any other team?)... but financial prudence appears to be something we have in spades compared to Them Up The M1.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 1, 2009 16:46:42 GMT
This really doesn't become you Heanor Lair. It's the same with Milkman and Shaggy. Are you so naive as to think that Panthers have some sort of moral superiority over Steelers? Oh yes of course there have been occasions in the past when dodgy dealings occurred with dodgy owners but, don't try to tell us that your management will only accept sponsorship from Bible sellers. I'll steel myself awaiting the posts of one sided critics spouting piety. ( That's reserved for me). Oh please... who's promoting us as having any kind of "moral superiority"? Nobody. The fact that your club generally behaves in a more despicable manner towards its fellows than all the rest put together, and in this specific case appears to have had shown - shall we say, less than stellar judgement? - doesn't mean that we're claiming to be morally superior. No surprise, a Steeler trying to deflect any kind of bad press about his club by trying to drag everyone else down...
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Post by Stoopy on Aug 1, 2009 17:21:40 GMT
To be honest when I read this, I sort of thought to myself what goes around comes around. And to think Eurologix were part of the 'Steelers family' - Jeez that family has more disfunctional members... ;D HL Posts like this do little to enhance the sport of Ice Hockey in the UK. Yes there is rivalry, but this is even beneath the level you usually post HL.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 1, 2009 17:29:16 GMT
And to think Eurologix were part of the 'Steelers family' - Jeez that family has more disfunctional members... ;D HL Posts like this do little to enhance the sport of Ice Hockey in the UK. Yes there is rivalry, but this is even beneath the level you usually post HL. Half of the crap that comes out of the Steelers' PR machine does little to enhance anything but the belief that the sport of ice hockey in the UK is a mess. I hardly think that one fan's post on the unofficial forum of a different team is in any way comparable, much less being likely to have any effect on the sport as a whole. Your club may be the victim in this case, but that does nothing to mitigate their overall lack of class.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
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Post by Milkman™ on Aug 1, 2009 17:40:21 GMT
This really doesn't become you Heanor Lair. It's the same with Milkman and Shaggy. Are you so naive as to think that Panthers have some sort of moral superiority over Steelers? Oh yes of course there have been occasions in the past when dodgy dealings occurred with dodgy owners but, don't try to tell us that your management will only accept sponsorship from Bible sellers. I'll steel myself awaiting the posts of one sided critics spouting piety. ( That's reserved for me). Maybe just maybe your own media man should stop coming on here then playing the **** Like I said, what goes around does come around. Maybe if your got some more of the fickles through the door the expectations of the sponsors would be lived up to. As for moral superiority, I think I answered that on a personal level when I put my hand in my own pocket for the bucket collection to (a) pay your teams players when yet another owner ****** you over and (b) to help treat a player when your owners backed out of his insurance costs. My my what short memories you all have, it really is the case that you all are the most class less winners I have seen in any sport.
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Helen B
Terry Kurtenbach
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Post by Helen B on Aug 1, 2009 17:44:37 GMT
Makes you wonder why steelers go through main team sponsers so often though, have they had one for more than a season yet since bob took over steelers especially when winning I'm pretty sure we've had a different main sponsor every season I've been going. So that's 97/98 - present, so for at least the last 12 years/13 seasons incl the coming one. EDIT: I have just counted up - it's 9 titles sponsors, as we had none during the 4 years that Norton Lea was in charge.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Aug 1, 2009 17:50:37 GMT
People keep saying that the Steelers must be cutting their spending next season, but I've got to say I'm struggling to see this. Admittedly the new players coming in will generally be earning less than those leaving, but I see it like this: Bollibruck for Munn - About the same. Reiter for Lehman - A reasonable saving. Morgan for Tait - A huge saving. Hutchins for Finnerty - About the same. The rest of the squad are the same as last season and having won a double I would expect most to have been given a pay rise, in the case of Dowd a considerable rise. So you have 2 or 3 new players earning less than those they're replacing and 11 players earning more.....I don't see where this cutting costs is coming from. As for the sponsorship, I'm no legal expert but I would guess if Eurologix remain solvent and there is a written agreement in place then we'd probably have a strong case for suing them for the outstanding monies. Regards Doom
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Aug 1, 2009 18:43:58 GMT
People keep saying that the Steelers must be cutting their spending next season, but I've got to say I'm struggling to see this. Admittedly the new players coming in will generally be earning less than those leaving, but I see it like this: Bollibruck for Munn - About the same. Reiter for Lehman - A reasonable saving. Morgan for Tait - A huge saving. Hutchins for Finnerty - About the same. The rest of the squad are the same as last season and having won a double I would expect most to have been given a pay rise, in the case of Dowd a considerable rise. So you have 2 or 3 new players earning less than those they're replacing and 11 players earning more.....I don't see where this cutting costs is coming from. You make a fair point, there... maybe it's a case of not meeting expectations? All this speculation about you guys signing someone big and expensive, someone Cameron-Mann-esque or better... and what do you get? Jeff Hutchins. Talk about your let-downs... Pay rises, exchange rates making the same imports cost more anyway... maybe all of that has eaten into the Steelers' budget. It just seems (and that's the only word that can honestly be used in connection with any team's spending) that your budget has shrunk maybe a little. And I hope that's exactly what happens. Sue the crap out of them. Thing is - couldn't Telford have done the same thing? But I don't recall hearing of any such action. Difference in club sizes, budget etc be damned... surely they would have had as much potential to sue as you guys? I'm no legal expert... maybe litigation in such a case isn't as easy as we may think... Anyone know for sure?
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Aug 1, 2009 19:37:54 GMT
You make a fair point, there... maybe it's a case of not meeting expectations? All this speculation about you guys signing someone big and expensive, someone Cameron-Mann-esque or better... and what do you get? Jeff Hutchins. Talk about your let-downs... I think that's the problem, there were rumours of Ling signing and supporters got their hopes up, but maybe the club did speak to Ling but never had the available finance to make him an offer that matched his expectations. I suspect the other reason supporters felt deflated was because of who you picked up for your final signing. Had you signed a mediocre ECHL player then I doubt there would have been so much fuss about Hutchins, but after Mann signed I suspect our supporters were expecting us to counter with something similar. I'm quite relaxed with the signing of Hutchins, although he undoubtedly has some issues he also has some strengths and one area I think we'll be strong next season is faceoffs.....An area you may struggle with the loss of Tess and Myers. Regards Doom
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Post by Mark Mac on Aug 1, 2009 20:19:35 GMT
And to think Eurologix were part of the 'Steelers family' - Jeez that family has more disfunctional members... ;D HL Posts like this do little to enhance the sport of Ice Hockey in the UK. Yes there is rivalry, but this is even beneath the level you usually post HL. I agree in part with you, in that any financial troubles for any team does hurt us all. And, whilst we have this rivalry with you guys, I don't want there to be serious money issues for you (cue me getting accused as to not being a proper Panthers fan). However, you cannot fail to see that there is a significant irony in this considering how much Simms et al spout all of this "Steelers Family" BS. At least, if you do then you have the blinkers on. People keep saying that the Steelers must be cutting their spending next season, but I've got to say I'm struggling to see this. Admittedly the new players coming in will generally be earning less than those leaving, but I see it like this: Bollibruck for Munn - About the same. Reiter for Lehman - A reasonable saving. Morgan for Tait - A huge saving. Hutchins for Finnerty - About the same. The rest of the squad are the same as last season and having won a double I would expect most to have been given a pay rise, in the case of Dowd a considerable rise. So you have 2 or 3 new players earning less than those they're replacing and 11 players earning more.....I don't see where this cutting costs is coming from. Regards Doom As always, I think Doom is talking complete sense here. Whilst the new signings for Sheffield may not be massive, the re-signings will have had wage increases - an Elite League cup plus 2 Playoffs in a row. Individually they may not be huge, but cumulatively they'll have had an effect. Of course, the announcement from the Steelers that this season they'll be spending within the wage cap (obviously their definition of 'rule' differs to mine) really does pee all over the elite league, but then I spose that's what happens when we have a league run by club owners. oh well
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Aug 1, 2009 20:36:50 GMT
Seems a simple queston,but why did Steelers not ensure the Eurologix money was paid up front at the start of the season,or at the very worst in a couple of quarterly installments ? Particularly as they must have had reservations about Eurologix due to their prior Telford saga.
As for Hutchins,thats a lazy bad signing.............where has Ashley Taits money gone ? Thats how Panthers obviously got Mann, by using Tess or Molins + Myers money.
Just think,for a club that reckon they are so "good at maths" you would have thought at least one of the muppets in Steelers office would have at least a tiny,weany, little bit of business sense !!!!!
What goes around comes around,especially to those who disrespect others !!!!!!!!!!
Haha.
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Aug 2, 2009 10:40:42 GMT
There you go again Shaggy, "no surprise, a Steeler trying to deflect any kind of bad press about his club by trying to drag everybody else down". Is that not in itself taking the moral high ground? No way am I saying the Steelers are pure as the driven snow. Their P.R. machine, such as it is, puts out loads of rubbish,(as does yours and everyone elses) but, some of it is not. You are not debating with someone who agrees with all our output as I have issues with the main man. He speaks for the club but not for all the fans as he certainly is not universally liked. I and many others hate all this "family" rubbish and Panther bashing dross. At the end of the day, if your management accept sponsorship from any source which is legal, how are you to know whether or not they will pay? Let's hope for all our sakes this recession doesn't take us through more problems.
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 586
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Post by doug on Aug 2, 2009 10:44:17 GMT
And by the way, Milkman, why am I classless?
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