Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jun 30, 2007 22:12:25 GMT
Found on THF:- It appears that a certain Mike O'Connor has taken exception to the blog written by Stewart Roberts - who writes the immensely-useful Ice Hockey Annual. Link to blog here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/index.htmO'Connor's reaction? (link here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/blogfeedback.html) I don't always agree with - or even like - what Stewart Roberts has to say... but talk about an overreaction! Panthers - please show that you're bigger than this. Let the Nottingham fans buy their copy of the Annual at the NIC unhindered (and the Sheffield fans! ;D).
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Jun 30, 2007 22:47:37 GMT
Found on THF:- It appears that a certain Mike O'Connor has taken exception to the blog written by Stewart Roberts - who writes the immensely-useful Ice Hockey Annual. Link to blog here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/index.htmO'Connor's reaction? (link here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/blogfeedback.html) I don't always agree with - or even like - what Stewart Roberts has to say... but talk about an overreaction! Panthers - please show that you're bigger than this. Let the Nottingham fans buy their copy of the Annual at the NIC unhindered (and the Sheffield fans! ;D). Dave The Panthers set the precidents for this type of thing late last season with the image rights things. The powers that be need to realise that people on the fringes in this sport will not/cant work for nothing. A sad day indeed when petty minded people gag free speech, and the freedom to say what they want, If I worked for the BBC (take note Seth Bennet), I would ask DS the thinking behind this in his next srivel based interview on wonderful wireless sheffield.
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Post by gazzathedevil on Jul 1, 2007 0:09:20 GMT
Mmmm this is an interesting one. Ultimatly though it is no more than one mans opinion, although as a bussiness man looking to use the Elite league as a means of selling his product it may have been a sensbile idea to keep certian things in there quiet. Especially the bit about Eamonn Convrey missing the meeting with UK sport as there is no hard evidence to suggest he done it in tentioanlly. I cant see why Sheffield in particular would be so annoyed about it though
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Jul 1, 2007 5:37:58 GMT
Especially the bit about Eamonn Convrey missing the meeting with UK sport as there is no hard evidence to suggest he done it in tentioanlly. Like I have said, this league is a Gentlemans club, dont dare speak out against it, or offer any form of feedback, its not welcome
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Jul 1, 2007 7:49:16 GMT
To me the whole article just comes across as someone trying to pick as many holes in the Elite League as possible.
We all know the sport is far from perfect, but is it any worse now than it was a few years ago?
If anything I'd say we've got the greatest degree of stability in a long while.
I find comments like 'struggling Elite League' very unhelpful.
Struggling in what way exactly?
He mentions the Marc Twaite issue, but he doesn't mention the person responsible (Norton Lea).
He doesn't mention that Bob Phillips made an offer of several thousand pounds to Marc Twaite, although he was under no obligation to do so. I believe the players association advised Marc Twaite to accept the offer, but he chose not to.
He doesn't even bother mentioning the EPL, yet they're far from perfect in the way things are run.
To me it comes across as a very bitter and negative article aimed primarily at the EIHL, I'm not surprised Mike O'Connor feels angered by it.
Regards
Doom
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Post by martinski83 on Jul 1, 2007 8:08:45 GMT
Seems like a one man rant to me. If a person wants to make a constructive analysis of the Elite League then that's fine and although there are many decisions I have disagreed with, there are also many decisions I have agreed with. Let us not forget that without the likes of Eamonn Convery, Neil Black, Andy French, David Simms, Gary Moran, hell even Andy Carson, there would be no Elite League. You may not like those people and they may have made decisions that have annoyed you in the past, but they run the league, not us. To out and out criticise a certain individual without just reason, unless the point being made has significant public interest value is known as Defamation of Character and the EIHL cannot be seen to support this. To ban a publication may not seriously hinder its popularity and in many ways is a little silly but it's easy to see why M O'C has taken that course of action. Bottom line - Go online - write yourself a blog - Criticise a person in the public eye - publicise it ~ then just sit and wait for the legal action, the dirtying of your name and the repercussions that come with --- potential loss of job or income. Not a clever move. There are ways to make a criticism, but not like this. We enjoy a free-ish press here, but that does not mean that free speech can be printed willy nilly. The press adhere (sometimes) to the PCC code of conduct and following their guidelines it is possible to make criticism without landing yourself in the the proverbial. Quite a post for a Sunday Morning
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 1, 2007 8:09:42 GMT
To me the whole article just comes across as someone trying to pick as many holes in the Elite League as possible. We all know the sport is far from perfect, but is it any worse now than it was a few years ago? If anything I'd say we've got the greatest degree of stability in a long while. I find comments like 'struggling Elite League' very unhelpful. Struggling in what way exactly? He mentions the Marc Twaite issue, but he doesn't mention the person responsible (Norton Lea). He doesn't mention that Bob Phillips made an offer of several thousand pounds to Marc Twaite, although he was under no obligation to do so. I believe the players association adviced Marc Twaite to accept the offer, but he chose not to. He doesn't even bother mentioning the EPL, yet they're far from perfect in the way things are run. To me it comes across as a very bitter and negative article aimed primarily at the EIHL, I'm not surprised Mike O'Connor feels angered by it. Regards Doom You say that "If anything I'd say we've got the greatest degree of stability in a long while"... and yet who is the one single person who has - here on the Cage and on THF - crusaded the most stridently about potential overspending by the EIHL teams this off-season? Who has highlighted over and over again the potential for the EIHL to collapse in the same way as the ISL did... assuming that this overspending thing is valid? You, Doom. You've gone on and on about it in multiple threads. So - which is it? Do we have the greatest degree of stability in a long while, or are we on the verge of tipping over the edge again? Or are you just trying to defend the Steelers' GM - not necessarily because you agree with him, but because it's your team involved? Make your mind up.
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Doom
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,591
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Post by Doom on Jul 1, 2007 8:39:01 GMT
To me the whole article just comes across as someone trying to pick as many holes in the Elite League as possible. We all know the sport is far from perfect, but is it any worse now than it was a few years ago? If anything I'd say we've got the greatest degree of stability in a long while. I find comments like 'struggling Elite League' very unhelpful. Struggling in what way exactly? He mentions the Marc Twaite issue, but he doesn't mention the person responsible (Norton Lea). He doesn't mention that Bob Phillips made an offer of several thousand pounds to Marc Twaite, although he was under no obligation to do so. I believe the players association adviced Marc Twaite to accept the offer, but he chose not to. He doesn't even bother mentioning the EPL, yet they're far from perfect in the way things are run. To me it comes across as a very bitter and negative article aimed primarily at the EIHL, I'm not surprised Mike O'Connor feels angered by it. Regards Doom You say that "If anything I'd say we've got the greatest degree of stability in a long while"... and yet who is the one single person who has - here on the Cage and on THF - crusaded the most stridently about potential overspending by the EIHL teams this off-season? Who has highlighted over and over again the potential for the EIHL to collapse in the same way as the ISL did... assuming that this overspending thing is valid? You, Doom. You've gone on and on about it in multiple threads. So - which is it? Do we have the greatest degree of stability in a long while, or are we on the verge of tipping over the edge again? Or are you just trying to defend the Steelers' GM - not necessarily because you agree with him, but because it's your team involved? Make your mind up. Simple answer Shaggy. I believe currently we do have the most stable league (relative to our sport) in a long time. Teams not folding, same number of teams as last season, no rumours of clubs struggling financially etc. I keep banging on about teams upping their spending because I like the stability we have at the present time and I'm concerned that increased spending could impact on that stability. A competitive league is good for everybody. Regards Doom
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Post by texpef on Jul 1, 2007 10:04:23 GMT
as long as steelers do well and win stuff though eh doom.....
as for the likes of david simms, gary moran and andy carson forming the league dont make me laugh, they did not form the league nor help run it, 2 are just gm's of two of the teams and one is a ref how does that suggest they set up or run the league???....
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Post by KimThePanther on Jul 1, 2007 10:35:41 GMT
Mr O'Connor needs an excuse to ban it because he's found out the front cover will include a picture of David Clarke and the play off trophy. ;D
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Post by Heanor Lair on Jul 1, 2007 10:36:41 GMT
Found on THF:- It appears that a certain Mike O'Connor has taken exception to the blog written by Stewart Roberts - who writes the immensely-useful Ice Hockey Annual. Link to blog here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/index.htmO'Connor's reaction? (link here: www.graphyle.com/IHA/blogfeedback.html) I don't always agree with - or even like - what Stewart Roberts has to say... but talk about an overreaction! Panthers - please show that you're bigger than this. Let the Nottingham fans buy their copy of the Annual at the NIC unhindered (and the Sheffield fans! ;D). Shaggy, Im afraid its typical of the Steelers organisation. They tried to have Powerplay banned from being sold within the Arena acouple of seasons ago for no good reason. (I appreciate that GM did this for one issue a season or so ago, but rightly based on a personal unneccesary attack on himself by a certain pillock who writes for Powerplay : . Gawd, even the 'totrally independent' Steeltalk forum doesnt allow posts or opiniions if they happen to disagree with the views of certain members of the Steeelers Organisation. As for O'Connor, remembers he is just puppet, and has someones hand up his a*** controlling all his actions and comments - ifs hes told to complain he goes and complains, if he is told to stick his head in a fire, he will stick his head in the fire. For all the noise coming out of the Shuff organisation its just another case of 'its okay if everyone shares their point of view', but if someone else should have a different view or opinion, then thats not acceptable. HL
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Post by spik on Jul 1, 2007 10:55:30 GMT
WE also have to remember that Stewart has helped to hold this sport together for YEARS and in the 1970's till today with publications to both promote and keep the public in touch.
People should talk rather than rant on any subject.The sales per Sheffield I know are not 'all that' anyway , it would just allianate it's interested public once again.
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Post by gazzathedevil on Jul 1, 2007 11:21:51 GMT
I find comments like 'struggling Elite League' very unhelpful. Struggling in what way exactly? That was the comment that shut me off straight away as well. Also i found this curious as well. Edinburgh and Hull are renowned for being very very careful with their spending and i have seen absoloutly ZERO evidence for them making a loss in fact seeing the improved roster fingers would point more towards a profit! And Manchester come on give me a break of course they were going to make a loss last season. Have you heard the sky is blue recently anyone? Then he talks about the league overspending, wait isnt this the struggling Elite league? if its Struggling where is all this money coming from to over spend? He does raise a good point about Planet ice however they do crop up a lot these days
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Post by mattscold on Jul 1, 2007 11:56:25 GMT
Although i don't agree with alot in the Blog, it is just that, a blog, and as such is just one mans opinions. Are we not free to express our views as we see fit? He hasn't put it in a newspaper or published it in any other publication. He put it in his blog and the way i see it he can express whatever views he wishes. Whether you agree or not with the article is neither here nor there. And as such i feel Mike O'Conner is over reacting and being a little petty.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 1, 2007 13:15:31 GMT
Although i don't agree with alot in the Blog, it is just that, a blog, and as such is just one mans opinions. Are we not free to express our views as we see fit? He hasn't put it in a newspaper or published it in any other publication. He put it in his blog and the way i see it he can express whatever views he wishes. Whether you agree or not with the article is neither here nor there. And as such i feel Mike O'Conner is over reacting and being a little petty. Exactamundo. Remember... some of the teams (Newcastle, Hull, Edinburgh come to mind) have criticised the spending of the 'bigger' teams (of which Sheffield is certainly one)... is Mike O'Connor going to initiate sanctions against them as well? And hasn't the Steelers' PR machine slung plenty of mud at various other people and organisations (especially us)? - yet don't they whine at the slightest complaint made about that? SSDD Same poo poo different day Same Steelers different day. And as for the comment on the blog feedback by DS The BS:-Well, when that barely-literate muckraker learns to do either of those things with any degree of professionalism, maybe then he'll be worth listening to.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
Always Delivers
Posts: 5,300
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Post by Milkman™ on Jul 1, 2007 15:52:37 GMT
And as for the comment on the blog feedback by DS The BS:-Well, when that barely-literate muckraker learns to do either of those things with any degree of professionalism, maybe then he'll be worth listening to. Shaggy you were sat with me the day I lost all respect for the man Stanley knife - childs toy - £10 offer Come on Simmsy answer that you spinless little excuse for a man
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Post by sawchuk on Jul 1, 2007 16:01:32 GMT
Mr O'Connor needs an excuse to ban it because he's found out the front cover will include a picture of David Clarke and the play off trophy. ;D Post of the day
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Post by jaffacake on Jul 1, 2007 16:30:50 GMT
Is slating the squeelers at EVERY opportunity the offseason sport on here ??
If it was thommo or gerad adams refusing to sell the annual would it still have made it on here ? (genuine question). IF MOC doesnt want to sell it,thats his perogative.......i dont see what the fuss is about !!!!
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Post by sawchuk on Jul 1, 2007 16:39:48 GMT
Is slating the Steelers at EVERY opportunity the offseason sport on here ?? Steelers are our main rivals and vice versa, so it's only natural that some fans of each team want to talk about our loathed, erh I mean loved rivals. Relax, it's harmless chit chat.
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Post by mattscold on Jul 1, 2007 16:50:26 GMT
Is slating the Steelers at EVERY opportunity the offseason sport on here ?? If it was thommo or gerad adams refusing to sell the annual would it still have made it on here ? (genuine question). IF MOC doesnt want to sell it,thats his perogative.......i dont see what the fuss is about !!!! Not having a go at the Steelers at all, i personally would have felt the same if it was Cardiff, The Blaze, the Panthers anyone, but i can't speek for every one else. I don't care enough about the Steelers to make a sport of slating them
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 1, 2007 19:14:49 GMT
If it was thommo or gerad adams refusing to sell the annual would it still have made it on here ? (genuine question). Yes. If it was the PANTHERS refusing to sell the annual, it would have made it on here. And trying to gain some kind of moral authority by appealing for other teams to follow suit? That makes it other peoples' business.
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Post by loveday on Jul 1, 2007 19:31:42 GMT
I find that if you try to tell people not to buy a book/annual etc., it only makes them more determined to go out and buy one.
Remember, DH Lawence's Book, more people bought it because a certain group of people tried to get it banned. ;D ;D ;D
No comparison I know, but what the heck! It's Sunday and I am bored!
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Post by rickstrang on Jul 1, 2007 21:13:30 GMT
Free speech is alive and well in hockey as this forum and Mr Roberts' blog amply demonstrate. There is no intention from the Steelers organsation to block that free speech. However, in nearly 21 000 words on his blog since October 2006 Mr Roberts has not uttered a single congratulatory or complimentary remark regarding the EIHL. In fact his postings have consistently picked at, denigrated and condemned that organisation. These are not the actions of a journalist offering a balanced view. Surely then it is somewhat brass-necked to then expect the EIHL through its member clubs to work alongside him to sell his publication! The double standard astounds me.
I believe that the Steelers have acted quite properly. If Mr Roberts wants a vehicle with which to hound and abuse the EIHL then let him do it off his own back and stop using the EIHL to finance his misguided blatherings.
No-one is banning the book or telling you not to buy it. The Steelers are simply refusing to promote it and quite frankly why should they?
Having said all of that I would actually agree with Kim that it's probably been banned because it's got you lot on the cover and knowing the antipathy between Simmsy and Old Roberts I bet that wasn't an accident! ;D
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Post by rickstrang on Jul 1, 2007 21:37:52 GMT
Ummm ... like, yeah! What would happen if that were to stop? The next thing you know you'll have Belfast making up some imaginary Panthers rivalry. Then we'll have horses replaced by the combustion engine, women voting and Shaggy doing one-liners. Have you gone mad???
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matt44
David Clarke
Posts: 3,085
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Post by matt44 on Jul 1, 2007 21:43:34 GMT
Ummm ... like, yeah! What would happen if that were to stop? The next thing you know you'll have Belfast making up some imaginary Panthers rivalry. Then we'll have horses replaced by the combustion engine, women voting and Shaggy doing one-liners. Have you gone mad??? Shaggy doing one liners?? I think you HAVE gone mad Mr. Strang!! I have to say I agree with O'C. The guy should be trying to help the EIHL progress, not turn people and potential players away. I say until he retracts his statements he can shove his blogging and his annuals!
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