New rules for 'junior' hockey. Official PR!

[Nemesis]

I am lead to believe that as of today, and in accordance with an EU ruling late today over 18's are no longer eligable to play 'junior' hockey. This means that U19's no longer exist in any league in Europe!

No, this is not a joke people, this has happened. Reports already coming in of teams being dis-banded. Any player with a 1989 birthday are tonight being told they can no longer play. A THF member has posted of having to tell his kids the news tonight and the utter devestation the news has caused.

I am yet to see the actual ruling but I am hearing there may also be big changes to Girls U16's as well.

This apparently has come about after a 'junior' was seriously injured on the continent last year.

The game will continue to U18, but then what do they do?

Thoughts........

Shaggy? I know this is an area you are passionate about mate.

[Alf Garnett]

Do scandinavian leagues not have an under 20? I thought Finland and Sweden had a few years back?

I could be wrong so don't quote me on this issue.

[Nemesis]

As I said, I have yet to see the actual ruling, but if they do they can no longer compete as 'juniors' So at 19/20/21 what do you do? can't really have some sort of parallel adult set-up I wouldn't have thought.

Would very much like to hear Shaggys take on this.

(Well, there has to be a first for everything eh? )

[KimThePanther]

I guess that means the ENL would become the next stepping stone now. That's going to cause a few headaches.

You've got to feel sorry for all those 19 year olds who thought they'd have a team next year though, that must be heartbreaking.

[Alf Garnett]

It would be a massive step up for an 18 year old to go straight from junior hockey to SM-Liiga or SEL in one hit. Surely there is a stepping stone ?

[Nemesis]

The guy in Cov was doing their trails tonight. In one fowl swoop he has had to tell half of them who had already come through several rounds, that they are no longer eligable.

You get to 18 and then you have nowhere to go! Not good, not good at all for junior development in any country.

[Nemesis]

It is probably worth saying that for anyone reading this who is directly affected or could be, you need to discuss this with your coach/club who will have more information than I.

[KimThePanther]

Apparently this will also mean that players under 18 can no longer play for senior sides.

That would mean James Neil won't be able to ice for the Panthers next season.

Let's hope for some clarification soon.

[Shaggy]

nemesis1 said:

Would very much like to hear Shaggys take on this.

Actually, I'm not sure that I do have a 'take' on this yet... first I've heard of it, absolutely gob-smacked. Not sure what to think - especially not until I've seen official confirmation of it, and an explanation as to what & why.

But initial thoughts... disaster for many young players, for a start. A potential loss of lots of players, if this persuades them to give up. An opportunity for lower-league teams (like the Lions) to make room for a lot more young players... no more short benches?

One thought strikes me here... this could be a perfect opportunity for the EPIHL and/or the EIHL (the latter especially) to put in place some kind of junior development initiative - even a proper 'apprenticeship' system. If they've got the balls and brains for it, there is the chance here to help bridge the gap between junior and senior hockey.

But I can't help thinking of all of the 18-year-old players who must now be convinced that they have no chance at playing hockey in 4 months' time.
Not good.

[Louisa]

I'm not shocked in the slightest as I've heard something like this coming for sometime. However, I think we should wait for the details to emerge before saying too much. The only thing I can really say is that Ice-hockey is one of the few sports it depply impacts. On a similar train of thought, does this mean that players like Theo Walcott being prevented from playing Premier League??? Or is this just ice-hockey??

On the plus side... the natural progression now seems to be uni hockey Its not the most professional, but the standard is still fairly high.

Tbh I'm absolutely gutted about this if it is true, and yes, womens hockey is going to be seriously affected as most teams are half seniors and half juniors. For the bright young talent across the country who are able to play up are now going to suffer.

[Nemesis]

Taken, with permission from THF from someone who has had to dealwith this last night......

Hi de Hi is at our ice rink tonight for the 2nd part of the U19 trials, all those that got through to tonight with 1989 birthdays had to be told they could not play next season. Hi de Hi phoned to say it was awful, the kids are just heartbroken. They are on the ice as I type but Hi de Hi said the atmosphere is tragic.

And.

Just back from the rink. In Cov we have 16 or 17 players who now cannot play next season. We have healthy numbers and should (just) be able to ice both of our U18 teams next season. I would think that some clubs will have to fold their U18 teams as they struggled to get full benches this season past.

One question raised it if this is based purely on age what happens to a player born in 1990 who currently is an U18 but will have their 18th birthday during the season (my lad will be 18 on the 2nd Jan). Will that player have to finish their season on their 18th birthday?

Everyone tonight was very upbeat having made the cut on Tuesday for the A league team and got into the second trial. Then 15 minutes before they get on the ice to have this news dropped on them. It made for a very sad atmosphere in the rink.

I hope this is clarified today and that it is all some kind of misunderstanding of what has actualy happened, but after reading that, someone needs to act quickly as teams are already cutting players.......

[Shaggy]

Just skimming the relevant thread on THF this morning, there appears to be lots of confusion, plenty of speculation as to where this ruling may have come from... and absolutely nothing official.
Talk of it being the EU... and discussion that it couldn't be (even including a quote from the EU rules that they can't make such rulings).
Speculation that this might be an EIHA thing instead.

Think we need to wait and find out some actual facts before we start making much of a fuss... so far it's all hearsay (maybe the Cov lot jumped the gun? Who knows?)

[lukethomas]

I don't think anyone has jumped the gun here. I was told by one of the Head of Development at a top club in this country that the ruling had come from Europe and that the League will now have to be 18 AND UNDER (not under 18s as stated somewhere). They did not however mention anything about the rule being reversed regarding under 18s playing senior hockey.

[Rich]

Not good if they throw it in with no warning, theres always something like this comes up every year and something else people have to think about.

If they phase it in fair enough, its only a year sooner that people have to progress BUT it would be harsh if they throw it in now and people who have teams have nowhere to play the game

[Warren]

Just throwing ideas out there, as I didn't play Junior (or to that matter play senior) Hockey I'm not fully sure of the set up, could there not convert U19's teams in to "Rec" teams? Surely the Rec team can impose rules on itself, such as "we only accept U19's" These teams could set up there own mini leagues against other "U19's rec teams"

This would at least cover the transition period as Rich said.

[heja]

or they could just play rec, theres enough rec teams that could match the U19 teams in this country.

TBH, if there not good enough at 18 for ENL then there not going to be good enough a year later so they might as well just go at play rec at 18

[Milkman™]

heja said:

or they could just play rec, theres enough rec teams that could match the U19 teams in this country.

TBH, if there not good enough at 18 for ENL then there not going to be good enough a year later so they might as well just go at play rec at 18

A voice of reason at last.

I have spent long enough round pro sportsman, and the juniors that are up can coming to know that the players that make it pro are the kids that have played since they could walk, same with most sports, football, rugby, cricket, golf, snooker et al.

If these 'juniors' are not good enough for the pro leagues at 17 then its time to smell the coffee and study to do something else.

[Rich]

therapy said:

heja said:

or they could just play rec, theres enough rec teams that could match the U19 teams in this country.

TBH, if there not good enough at 18 for ENL then there not going to be good enough a year later so they might as well just go at play rec at 18

A voice of reason at last.

I have spent long enough round pro sportsman, and the juniors that are up can coming to know that the players that make it pro are the kids that have played since they could walk, same with most sports, football, rugby, cricket, golf, snooker et al.

If these 'juniors' are not good enough for the pro leagues at 17 then its time to smell the coffee and study to do something else.

Kinda my thoughts but didnt want to be blunt lol. The point id make again is that there are people at the moment who do not know what is happening. Id agree with that theory if they say from 2010 or something.

To have u18s on your rec team youd need a L2 coach on the ice at all times, not a commitment most rec teams want

[lukethomas]

Sorry guys, but i have to disagree with you. I myself was a netminder for a fair few years, between the ages of 12 and 18. At 18 i decided enough was enough and started to play in Defence. I trained EPL in my first season, and now play ENL. It was that final year of u19s hockey that got me there. I can also name a fair few players that didnt start playing until the late teens and are playing senior hockey. The trouble is that i think we are 1 of only a few countries that play U19s. a lot of countries (Scotland included i think) play 11s, 13s, 15s, 17s and 21s. I have played rec hockey (and lasted only 6 months). Not been big headed, but i found that if you are one of the better players, someone always wants to fight you or tries to take you out. There needs to be some sort of league for 18 to 21 year olds to fill the gap, help develope the late bloomers, and to also give the guys that havent made it one final shot.

[puckhead]

Apparently the NIC make you have an L2 coach on the ice for rec games irrespective of players ages.

[Milkman™]

lukethomas said:

Sorry guys, but i have to disagree with you. I myself was a netminder for a fair few years, between the ages of 12 and 18. At 18 i decided enough was enough and started to play in Defence. I trained EPL in my first season, and now play ENL. It was that final year of u19s hockey that got me there. I can also name a fair few players that didnt start playing until the late teens and are playing senior hockey. The trouble is that i think we are 1 of only a few countries that play U19s. a lot of countries (Scotland included i think) play 11s, 13s, 15s, 17s and 21s. I have played rec hockey (and lasted only 6 months). Not been big headed, but i found that if you are one of the better players, someone always wants to fight you or tries to take you out. There needs to be some sort of league for 18 to 21 year olds to fill the gap, help develope the late bloomers, and to also give the guys that havent made it one final shot.

Luke, big respect to you buddy, but what are the chances of you playing ELIH, or going abroad and playing DEL ?

My statement, which I stand by is that if you havent played your first 'show' game or warmed the bench at 18 you never will, be it in this league or any, and thats any sport you want to mention, I will of course stand corrected if you can give me an example (Vinnie Jones is the only one I can think of)

[kilner]

lukethomas said:

There needs to be some sort of league for 18 to 21 year olds to fill the gap

Agree fully. Something like WHL (think its called that) where they only play 16-20 year olds.

[DaveE]

therapy said:

lukethomas said:

Sorry guys, but i have to disagree with you. I myself was a netminder for a fair few years, between the ages of 12 and 18. At 18 i decided enough was enough and started to play in Defence. I trained EPL in my first season, and now play ENL. It was that final year of u19s hockey that got me there. I can also name a fair few players that didnt start playing until the late teens and are playing senior hockey. The trouble is that i think we are 1 of only a few countries that play U19s. a lot of countries (Scotland included i think) play 11s, 13s, 15s, 17s and 21s. I have played rec hockey (and lasted only 6 months). Not been big headed, but i found that if you are one of the better players, someone always wants to fight you or tries to take you out. There needs to be some sort of league for 18 to 21 year olds to fill the gap, help develope the late bloomers, and to also give the guys that havent made it one final shot.

Luke, big respect to you buddy, but what are the chances of you playing ELIH, or going abroad and playing DEL ?

My statement, which I stand by is that if you havent played your first 'show' game or warmed the bench at 18 you never will, be it in this league or any, and thats any sport you want to mention, I will of course stand corrected if you can give me an example (Vinnie Jones is the only one I can think of)

Wes Morgan. Signed by Forest from Dunkirk (by no means anywhere near professional, and somewhat similar to a hockey rec team) at the age of 19. Been in the first team since his debut back in August 2003.

[mike]

stuart pearce age 20ish signed wealdstone first proper club , 78 England caps.

[Milkman™]

kilner said:

lukethomas said:

There needs to be some sort of league for 18 to 21 year olds to fill the gap

Agree fully. Something like WHL (think its called that) where they only play 16-20 year olds.

14-20 actually

But hey, until Shaggy convinces the masses that British born is best then we have a long long way to go.

Most of the WHL teams are affiliated, and have farm team status, do the Lions and Panthers have discussions or is that bridge still firmly burnt.