Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2023 21:03:15 GMT
Quite clearly if it's done right they would make more money than individual teams streams. £25 a month would be a good ballpark figure.
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Post by Jono Bullard on Jun 28, 2023 21:42:27 GMT
Quite clearly if it's done right they would make more money than individual teams streams. £25 a month would be a good ballpark figure. Sadly, if done right as you say I'm pretty certain that £25 a month is nowhere near enough. If we go with an average set-up (4 cameras (wide, tight, behind each goal), commentator, director, replay & graphics operator) You're looking at a total equipment cost of between £15,000-£20,000. Most clubs will have all of this or some of it, but there will be equipment costs, especially if older equipment needs replacing. Directing, camera operating, commentary & replay/graphics are skilled jobs, so those doing it will want paying, so for each club you need to employ a minimum of 5 people (Director, replay/graphics operator, commentator, 2x camera operators (the behind goal camera's are static and don't need operators)) so let's say that's a £500 in wages per game, per team. So, with 31 league & cup matches per season, plus pre-season, plus cup knock-out rounds, plus play-offs, you're looking at around 35 games a season per club. 35 x £500 is £17,500 per club You then have the hosting, website, bandwidth and technical costs to manage the 'game centre' operation or more likely the cost of employing a 3rd party to do it, which is probably where the biggest cost will be, not 100% sure on the exact figure but you probably wouldn't get much change from £500,000. Then you have taxes such as VAT. The crux is how many people in the UK are likely to buy a monthly subscription? I think the league would have to do a lot more market research to see what the likely take up would be, then that will give an idea of what the monthly subscription would be. However, with a league commercial manager coming in, I expect this will be the sort of project they will be looking at, but personally I think it would be at least a couple of seasons off, if at all. I think the costs involved and the economies of scale make it a non-starter. With that in mind, what I think would be good in the mean time if a TV deal isn't forthcoming (again, my own opinion for clarity) is the league show one game a week for free on YouTube to increase the exposure of the league. A webcast quality production for free every week. I think, for now, that's probably the most realistic option.
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 6:27:45 GMT
Even if we say £3000 costs all in to “televise” a game, with 300 games a season, plus all the back office, that’s probably well over £1m of costs. And a subscription would have to be good not to fall over all the time as I believe they often do. At £25 a month for 8 months, you’d need around 6000 subscribers to break even. Based on average crowds, that’s around 20% of all EIHL game attendees? Will 1 in 5 fans part with £200 to have the chance to watch Dundee vs Fife on a Wednesday night? As well as their home game tickets?
Does anyone actually know any webcast sale figures?
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by DMS on Jun 29, 2023 7:03:58 GMT
Even if we say £3000 costs all in to “televise” a game, with 300 games a season, plus all the back office, that’s probably well over £1m of costs. And a subscription would have to be good not to fall over all the time as I believe they often do. At £25 a month for 8 months, you’d need around 6000 subscribers to break even. Based on average crowds, that’s around 20% of all EIHL game attendees? Will 1 in 5 fans part with £200 to have the chance to watch Dundee vs Fife on a Wednesday night? As well as their home game tickets? Does anyone actually know any webcast sale figures? Some webcast figures for some of the clubs don’t even break into 3 figures.
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Post by messier1851 on Jun 29, 2023 7:06:24 GMT
I can assure you that the company who did the Viaplay coverage last season would've paid a lot more than £500 per game for director, camera ops, replay and graphics.
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Post by Jono Bullard on Jun 29, 2023 7:17:48 GMT
I can assure you that the company who did the Viaplay coverage last season would've paid a lot more than £500 per game for director, camera ops, replay and graphics. I’m sure it was a lot more. I’m basing my figures on a webcast rather than a TV broadcast.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 7:19:30 GMT
People banging on it won't be cost effective.. well what about the £1m+ revenue they make off the playoff weekend.. where does all that end up because it sure as hell doesn't go on the product of improving the league !!
I'd love to know how much the EIHL have pocketed off that weekend since 2003/4
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jun 29, 2023 7:42:19 GMT
People banging on it won't be cost effective.. well what about the £1m+ revenue they make off the playoff weekend.. where does all that end up because it sure as hell doesn't go on the product of improving the league !! I'd love to know how much the EIHL have pocketed off that weekend since 2003/4 Look at the fan attendance figures from last season,the EIHL were trumpeting loudly that the total was 1,004,000 fans across the league. Yes over one million watched games last year,add that up x per ticket and it’s a lot of revenue. Ask them to spend some of that revenue though on better tv or training craps refs etc and they’ll plead poverty at every turn ! 🙄
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 7:50:27 GMT
So, the economics of this idea seem, at best, sketchy..?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jun 29, 2023 7:54:40 GMT
The Isle of Man TT. One full week of practice with every minute covered then a week of racing with every single minute covered using 37 miles of cameras, drones, helicopters, multiple commentators, anchors, and guests = £12.
Brit ice hockey fails because of a laughable lack of investment. Fight and chisel to get the money in then survive or run away with it ASAP. Too small-minded with no eye on the future at all. If you took the happy clappers out of the NIC the Panthers would fail in a week. The bottom line is that Brit ice hockey doesn't have the right people running it and it's always going to struggle.
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Post by Jono Bullard on Jun 29, 2023 8:21:25 GMT
The Isle of Man TT. One full week of practice with every minute covered then a week of racing with every single minute covered using 37 miles of cameras, drones, helicopters, multiple commentators, anchors, and guests = £12. Brit ice hockey fails because of a laughable lack of investment. Fight and chisel to get the money in then survive or run away with it ASAP. Too small-minded with no eye on the future at all. If you took the happy clappers out of the NIC the Panthers would fail in a week. The bottom line is that Brit ice hockey doesn't have the right people running it and it's always going to struggle. With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 8:27:40 GMT
So, the economics of this idea seem, at best, sketchy..? See the above post.. it's not sketchy at all... it's down to lack of innovation and short sightedness.🤦
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 8:29:15 GMT
The Isle of Man TT. One full week of practice with every minute covered then a week of racing with every single minute covered using 37 miles of cameras, drones, helicopters, multiple commentators, anchors, and guests = £12. Brit ice hockey fails because of a laughable lack of investment. Fight and chisel to get the money in then survive or run away with it ASAP. Too small-minded with no eye on the future at all. If you took the happy clappers out of the NIC the Panthers would fail in a week. The bottom line is that Brit ice hockey doesn't have the right people running it and it's always going to struggle. With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. How would you know if you never try it? That's the problem with the EIHL no one ever takes a chance it's easy street all the time..
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jun 29, 2023 9:01:43 GMT
The Isle of Man TT. One full week of practice with every minute covered then a week of racing with every single minute covered using 37 miles of cameras, drones, helicopters, multiple commentators, anchors, and guests = £12. Brit ice hockey fails because of a laughable lack of investment. Fight and chisel to get the money in then survive or run away with it ASAP. Too small-minded with no eye on the future at all. If you took the happy clappers out of the NIC the Panthers would fail in a week. The bottom line is that Brit ice hockey doesn't have the right people running it and it's always going to struggle. With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. I've owned and run a seven-figure-a-year web-based subscription/streaming company for over twenty years, and seriously I could teach the EIHL to suck eggs. On top of that, I have been a motorcycle sponsor and have been involved in motorcycle racing at a GB level for many years. Believe me, when the IOM TT launched its webcast service last year it was a REAL shot in the dark and the first year it had very few subscribers. The EIHL is coming from a long way back because they have been so incredibly slow and then dismally poor at it. Everything on this level for the EIHL comes down to marketing and it's STILL very bad at it. The economies of scale are a lot easier for the EIHL than the IOM as the production costs are a tiny fraction. The real problem for the EIHL is marketing and being able to sell a product. It was laughably slow at adapting to online and even now it doesn't understand it. The franchise Twitter accounts and YouTubes are 100% geared for preaching to the converted and have zero clue even what the YouTube algorithm is. As a copy of the 1970's Match Of The Day it's great. For bringing new people (and old customers back) it's crap. Over the years the Panthers were run by dinosaurs and it was a closed shop and consequently in their case fell years behind the rest of the world. The last social media guy the Panthers had was laughably bad. The best way of changing the economics of scale in the Panther's case is to fill the arena with bums on seats every game. It's a city center arena and not being able to sell out and still having to give away countless free tickets seriously needs to be looked at. Not everyone is struggling with their electricity bills and if the majority of the current fan base is then it makes you wonder who the sport has been marketed at in the past. As far as the EIHL is concerned, it's had some very clever ice hockey people involved and a lot of crooks and idiots with absolutely ZERO clue how to run a bums-on-seats business. Just look at how even the EIHL's own website is run for instance. How long has the EIHL been waiting for a commercial director? How long has the CC been run to kill the sport before the season even starts? How many years has the Play-Off weekend been slowly allowed to die? I have very little faith in all of the teams even finishing next season (bookmark this and then tell me I'm wrong). UK ice hockey is a very insular little sport run by close-minded people who would struggle to sell out a church coffee morning and it will struggle on until it falls over and dies again. It needs people who stop looking in and start to look out and preferably with youth on their side.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jun 29, 2023 9:37:24 GMT
With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. How would you know if you never try it? That's the problem with the EIHL no one ever takes a chance it's easy street all the time.. Spot on. At present a ticket covering 300 games is not viable, but they should at least try a discounted webcast package. Whatever happened to “speculate to accumulate”. Problem with the EIHL is they’re happy just rolling out the same old,same old and never try anything new.
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Post by spik on Jun 29, 2023 9:43:04 GMT
TV team ... Or at the least a streaming service to stream EVERY game of the season for a monthly subscription. Out of interest, what sort of monthly subscription cost would you be looking at? Also, what is the minimum broadcast standards you would expect for the price? (No. of camera's, commentators, replays, graphics etc) Personally not understanding the tech part of it. So can't demonstrate what I'd find acceptable for that package. It's just about the cost for me. We'd have to hear what is the offer and decide thereafter. Perhaps the survey could have posed this question to gauge interest.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jun 29, 2023 9:56:53 GMT
Out of interest, what sort of monthly subscription cost would you be looking at? Also, what is the minimum broadcast standards you would expect for the price? (No. of camera's, commentators, replays, graphics etc) Personally not understanding the tech part of it. So can't demonstrate what I'd find acceptable for that package. It's just about the cost for me. We'd have to hear what is the offer and decide thereafter. Perhaps the survey could have posed this question to gauge interest. That’s the sort of question the fan survey should have been asking,not where do you do your bloody shopping ? 🙄
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 10:13:29 GMT
Unfortunately that's the problem mate the EIHL don't spend any time tackling the actual problems instead they fanny around doing surveys on non sensical stuff which no one is interested about
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 10:24:00 GMT
The Isle of Man TT. One full week of practice with every minute covered then a week of racing with every single minute covered using 37 miles of cameras, drones, helicopters, multiple commentators, anchors, and guests = £12. Brit ice hockey fails because of a laughable lack of investment. Fight and chisel to get the money in then survive or run away with it ASAP. Too small-minded with no eye on the future at all. If you took the happy clappers out of the NIC the Panthers would fail in a week. The bottom line is that Brit ice hockey doesn't have the right people running it and it's always going to struggle. With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. Exactly. Can't imagine the EIHL getting as many subscribers as TT Live. <goes and looks> TT+ streaming had 220,000 subscribers this year from 180 countries, worldwide. TT+ Live at £20 a throw, had 64,000 subs, again worldwide. Hard to imagine the EIHL getting those kinds of numbers. As said, the new Commercial Manager will almost certainly be looking at this.
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 10:37:48 GMT
Unfortunately that's the problem mate the EIHL don't spend any time tackling the actual problems instead they fanny around doing surveys on non sensical stuff which no one is interested about In your opinion. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense for the league to know it. For example, knowing who your customers actually are absolutely should help to sell the league to a potential sponsor. "Pets R Us" for a start... This new Commercial Manager is going to be busy.
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 10:57:58 GMT
With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. I've owned and run a seven-figure-a-year web-based subscription/streaming company for over twenty years, and seriously I could teach the EIHL to suck eggs. On top of that, I have been a motorcycle sponsor and have been involved in motorcycle racing at a GB level for many years. Believe me, when the IOM TT launched its webcast service last year it was a REAL shot in the dark and the first year it had very few subscribers. The EIHL is coming from a long way back because they have been so incredibly slow and then dismally poor at it. Everything on this level for the EIHL comes down to marketing and it's STILL very bad at it. The economies of scale are a lot easier for the EIHL than the IOM as the production costs are a tiny fraction. The real problem for the EIHL is marketing and being able to sell a product. It was laughably slow at adapting to online and even now it doesn't understand it. The franchise Twitter accounts and YouTubes are 100% geared for preaching to the converted and have zero clue even what the YouTube algorithm is. As a copy of the 1970's Match Of The Day it's great. For bringing new people (and old customers back) it's crap. Over the years the Panthers were run by dinosaurs and it was a closed shop and consequently in their case fell years behind the rest of the world. The last social media guy the Panthers had was laughably bad. The best way of changing the economics of scale in the Panther's case is to fill the arena with bums on seats every game. It's a city center arena and not being able to sell out and still having to give away countless free tickets seriously needs to be looked at. Not everyone is struggling with their electricity bills and if the majority of the current fan base is then it makes you wonder who the sport has been marketed at in the past. As far as the EIHL is concerned, it's had some very clever ice hockey people involved and a lot of crooks and idiots with absolutely ZERO clue how to run a bums-on-seats business. Just look at how even the EIHL's own website is run for instance. How long has the EIHL been waiting for a commercial director? How long has the CC been run to kill the sport before the season even starts? How many years has the Play-Off weekend been slowly allowed to die? I have very little faith in all of the teams even finishing next season (bookmark this and then tell me I'm wrong). UK ice hockey is a very insular little sport run by close-minded people who would struggle to sell out a church coffee morning and it will struggle on until it falls over and dies again. It needs people who stop looking in and start to look out and preferably with youth on their side. I can certainly agree that the EIHL as a whole has been run by a variety of people, and is pretty rubbish at media/marketing/socials etc. In terms of the website, the content is at times laughable, it looks like a GCSE project.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2023 11:30:16 GMT
New commercial manager.. 😂🤦...
I'll give him a season before he realises he's working with idiots and is off quicker than Usain Bolt
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 11:40:05 GMT
New commercial manager.. 😂🤦... I'll give him a season before he realises he's working with idiots and is off quicker than Usain Bolt I hope you're better at divining Commercial Managers than Steelers players. Or is it worse? I don't know any more.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jun 29, 2023 12:16:38 GMT
With respect it’s not a fair comparison with the Isle of Man TT, the economies of scale are completely different. The TT is a world renowned event and would attract thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of subscribers to make such a broadcast cost effective. It’s the same argument for NHL Gamecentre and Sky Sports. They have millions of subscribers to cover the costs. Tbe risk for the EIHL with a Gamecentre is would it get enough subscribers to make it cost effective, especially in the current economic climate. That’s a task for the incoming commercial manager I suspect. Exactly. Can't imagine the EIHL getting as many subscribers as TT Live. <goes and looks> TT+ streaming had 220,000 subscribers this year from 180 countries, worldwide. TT+ Live at £20 a throw, had 64,000 subs, again worldwide. Hard to imagine the EIHL getting those kinds of numbers. As said, the new Commercial Manager will almost certainly be looking at this. My point is economies of scale. Coming from nothing and on a punt the IOM TT put together a HUGE infrastructure to do the job which was pure speculate to accumulate from the IOM tourist board side and they have certainly made it work. This year's coverage was absolutely excellent. From an EIHL franchise, the cost is ridiculously cheap by comparison. Why not do a streaming season ticket? The cost in 2023 once you have the customers there it's very cheap to stream. What used to cost me $40k a month to stream is now pennies in comparison and much better and far more stable. The EIHL is still stuck in the era where getting onto free-to-view telly was the key to fame and riches but nowadays it just isn't. Sports tv channels are being consolidated now and the future for a lot of sports is going to be streaming. There are still EIHL teams out there not having adverts during power breaks??? There are people that can sell player jerseys for £1000 but they struggle to get new people through the doors to watch games without the desperation of handing out free tickets! Streaming games for an EIHL franchise is ridiculously cheap. Spend an hour teaching the guys on the camera how to set the white balance and exposure so that all the cameras are the same for a start then instead of hiding the live stream link away so that it's bloody hard to find actually start advertising them and run the thing as a business. The Panthers never even had a webcast until forced to. Beyond the dark ages. Seriously.
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Post by bobness on Jun 29, 2023 12:55:18 GMT
Exactly. Can't imagine the EIHL getting as many subscribers as TT Live. <goes and looks> TT+ streaming had 220,000 subscribers this year from 180 countries, worldwide. TT+ Live at £20 a throw, had 64,000 subs, again worldwide. Hard to imagine the EIHL getting those kinds of numbers. As said, the new Commercial Manager will almost certainly be looking at this. My point is economies of scale. Coming from nothing and on a punt the IOM TT put together a HUGE infrastructure to do the job which was pure speculate to accumulate from the IOM tourist board side and they have certainly made it work. This year's coverage was absolutely excellent. From an EIHL franchise, the cost is ridiculously cheap by comparison. Why not do a streaming season ticket? The cost in 2023 once you have the customers there it's very cheap to stream. What used to cost me $40k a month to stream is now pennies in comparison and much better and far more stable. The EIHL is still stuck in the era where getting onto free-to-view telly was the key to fame and riches but nowadays it just isn't. Sports tv channels are being consolidated now and the future for a lot of sports is going to be streaming. There are still EIHL teams out there not having adverts during power breaks??? There are people that can sell player jerseys for £1000 but they struggle to get new people through the doors to watch games without the desperation of handing out free tickets! Streaming games for an EIHL franchise is ridiculously cheap. Spend an hour teaching the guys on the camera how to set the white balance and exposure so that all the cameras are the same for a start then instead of hiding the live stream link away so that it's bloody hard to find actually start advertising them and run the thing as a business. The Panthers never even had a webcast until forced to. Beyond the dark ages. Seriously. I don’t disagree with a lot of that. Taking a punt is fine with the govt underwriting it though. That said, something needs to happen/change.
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