float
Pat Casey
Posts: 218
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Post by float on Sept 29, 2022 19:26:04 GMT
Well, I’m sure one thing we can all agree on at least is that we’re not announcing players like the Clan have tonight. Absolutely horrific PR disaster for them.
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Post by Bagheera on Sept 29, 2022 19:33:12 GMT
Well, I’m sure one thing we can all agree on at least is that we’re not announcing players like the Clan have tonight. Absolutely horrific PR disaster for them. Already deleted all their tweets. Very quick reversal happening. Now just awaiting the official statement. They cant even pretend they didn't know. Apparently discussed in his video interview to some degree. |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Sept 29, 2022 22:45:39 GMT
Well, I’m sure one thing we can all agree on at least is that we’re not announcing players like the Clan have tonight. Absolutely horrific PR disaster for them. Already deleted all their tweets. Very quick reversal happening. Now just awaiting the official statement. They cant even pretend they didn't know. Apparently discussed in his video interview to some degree. Coming in the morning it seems... |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Sept 29, 2022 23:05:14 GMT
Already deleted all their tweets. Very quick reversal happening. Now just awaiting the official statement. They cant even pretend they didn't know. Apparently discussed in his video interview to some degree. Coming in the morning it seems... Not sure what's worse, signing him, the way they handled it, or that it takes until tomorrow to issue a statement |
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 29, 2022 23:59:08 GMT
Already deleted all their tweets. Very quick reversal happening. Now just awaiting the official statement. They cant even pretend they didn't know. Apparently discussed in his video interview to some degree. Coming in the morning it seems... I think they've been a bit cheeky saying that "he won't be signing". He was already signed and someone there did such an incomprehensibly bad bit of due diligence that they brought up the allegations in a damn interview. Thank god we got Pacha this summer, because if I was Black I'd be looking for a new GM in Glasgow. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Sept 29, 2022 23:59:36 GMT
Coming in the morning it seems... Not sure what's worse, signing him, the way they handled it, or that it takes until tomorrow to issue a statement Somebody’s head needs to roll that’s for sure. Hopefully it’s Chalmers. |
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Sept 30, 2022 5:55:43 GMT
Already deleted all their tweets. Very quick reversal happening. Now just awaiting the official statement. They cant even pretend they didn't know. Apparently discussed in his video interview to some degree. Coming in the morning it seems... What a train wreck |
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Post by Bagheera on Sept 30, 2022 6:32:53 GMT
It's all quite strange.
Clearly they knew of the charges as they were discussed in the interview with him, so somebody did do some sort of check.
It's what went on from finding it out to signing him that is baffling. The only reason I can think they thought it was o.k is that they asked him about it privately and he told them it had been resolved. At which point they just accepted what he said without investigating further. The only alternative to that is knew it all and just it was o.k to sign him anyway. I dont put anything past the powers that be accross the EIHL but surely they wouldn't be that stupid(just slightly less stupid).
What's more remaekable is how he has managed to play in Denmark, Finland, Germany, Austria and Italy with no apparent issues.
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 6:40:26 GMT
It's all quite strange. Clearly they knew of the charges as they were discussed in the interview with him, so somebody did do some sort of check. It's what went on from finding it out to signing him that is baffling. The only reason I can think they thought it was o.k is that they asked him about it privately and he told them it had been resolved. At which point they just accepted what he said without investigating further. The only alternative to that is knew it all and just it was o.k to sign him anyway. I dont put anything past the powers that be accross the EIHL but surely they wouldn't be that stupid(just slightly less stupid). What's more remaekable is how he has managed to play in Denmark, Finland, Germany, Austria and Italy with no apparent issues. I'm trying to find if there is a copy of the interview available (or at least the relevant snippet), but they talk to him about it, say that "he was cleared of all charges". Just googling his name shows that not to be the case. The tone of the interview IMO is worse though, as it feels like ths interviewer is framing him as a victim of this thing that, incredulously, "happened over 10 years ago". |
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 6:56:48 GMT
Apologies for the poor language in the tweet, but the video IMO is very important.
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Post by Bagheera on Sept 30, 2022 7:12:04 GMT
Apologies for the poor language in the tweet, but the video IMO is very important. I'll start by saying that I havn't gone and done any further digging on this other than the news articles from 2013 where he was charged and fled. I have seen a few people state that he hasn't been cleared and he cant get back in the US. Is that information publically available and more up to date. There is another way this could pan out. I'll be clear. I'm not drfending him or Clan. Just trying to bring an alternative view which alloe some of the discisions by Clan and other European clubs to make more sense. Could he have been cleared? We all know Rape crimes and alergations are both hideous and a legal minefield. Sadly what we do know about the media is that they will print headlines for sales and clicks. Often though they are less likely to print the less sensational stuff when somebody is cleared. It would certainly be a lot harder to go and find on google than the original article, if any such follow up article was ever even printed. Of course, if there is updates and evidence out there that he hasn't been cleared and or admitted it you can ignore all of the above. |
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 7:48:04 GMT
Apologies for the poor language in the tweet, but the video IMO is very important. I'll start by saying that I havn't gone and done any further digging on this other than the news articles from 2013 where he was charged and fled. I have seen a few people state that he hasn't been cleared and he cant get back in the US. Is that information publically available and more up to date. There is another way this could pan out. I'll be clear. I'm not drfending him or Clan. Just trying to bring an alternative view which alloe some of the discisions by Clan and other European clubs to make more sense. Could he have been cleared? We all know Rape crimes and alergations are both hideous and a legal minefield. Sadly what we do know about the media is that they will print headlines for sales and clicks. Often though they are less likely to print the less sensational stuff when somebody is cleared. It would certainly be a lot harder to go and find on google than the original article, if any such follow up article was ever even printed. Of course, if there is updates and evidence out there that he hasn't been cleared and or admitted it you can ignore all of the above. I'm just not sure how he could be cleared. Unless the accuser asks for charges to be dropped, it's very unlikely anything would have happened to his case. Also, even if something like outlined above happened, surely anyone could see that you need to lay all the cards on the table? You can't have multiple news stories stating that he admitted to it, was charged, fled the country, but not before he played out the entire hockey season on appeal despite the student conduct board recommending that he be immediately expelled. If that is the only public information, just saying "everything was dropped" without going into it further is absolute stupidity as it's so easily framed as sweeping the allegations under the carpet. It's also worth noting that he skipped bail. Itself a crime for which he has served no punishment. |
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 7:59:30 GMT
clanihc.com/statement-from-neil-black-clan-chairman/"At 1945 last night. I was made aware for the first time of a major situation which merits further internal investigation and this has led to the immediate suspension of both the Clan Chief Executive Gareth Chalmers & the Clan Head Coach Malcolm Cameron. Neil Black Chairman Glasgow Clan"
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Post by DonClaneone on Sept 30, 2022 8:06:05 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace
I feel ashamed
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 8:13:08 GMT
It's an absolute disgrace I feel ashamed I'd take the (tiny) positive and remember that the fans didn't sit down, rallied and fixed the situation. I think Clan fans have shown themselves in a very positive light. |
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 417
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Post by Discoray on Sept 30, 2022 8:28:22 GMT
I was already highly uncomfortable with the rumours we were after DeLuca, considering how many imports are out there to be signed without such a controversy attached with them. This one is an entirely new level of that, and all for what? A bang average (at best) import D, who admitted such a heinous crime and fled justice. Bad enough one mind thought this was even remotely close to being a good idea. Multiple minds being involved alongside the pathetic attempts to dismiss it all was just absolutely appalling. Time for new suite of management, don't care if it means not winning a game all season and being rooted to 10th, price well worth paying. It's also our only possible course to recover from this, the damage is monumental and hitting the mainstream press. Club will be tarnished with this for a very, very long time. As if things weren't bad enough, this video report on the matter has been found: america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/2015/4/no-justice-for-the-victims-of-inaction.html |
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Post by pantherlee on Sept 30, 2022 8:30:31 GMT
Chalmers and probably Cameron too must surely have to get sacked for this. Chalmers without doubt. How he ever could have thought that this would be deemed acceptable by anyone is beyond me. His position has to be untenable you would think
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Post by jd on Sept 30, 2022 8:36:42 GMT
Chalmers and probably Cameron too must surely have to get sacked for this. Chalmers without doubt. How he ever could have thought that this would be deemed acceptable by anyone is beyond me. His position has to be untenable you would think You’d think so. They clearly knew what had happened and tried to brush it under the carpet. Black must sack one or both. |
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Post by pantherlee on Sept 30, 2022 8:44:58 GMT
As someone mentioned above, how has he been able to make a career from hockey with a rape charge attached to him? It baffles me that he could play for so many teams from so many countries without it being an issue. He even managed to get a letter on his shirt when playing in Finland
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Post by wgray on Sept 30, 2022 8:48:55 GMT
In the USA doesn’t charged mean formally accused? In which case it’s not been to trial or proven if he fled
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,446
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Post by iginla on Sept 30, 2022 8:53:00 GMT
Chalmers and probably Cameron too must surely have to get sacked for this. Chalmers without doubt. How he ever could have thought that this would be deemed acceptable by anyone is beyond me. His position has to be untenable you would think And to think,as well as being Clan GM Gareth Chalmers also runs his own player agency ! 🙈 |
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Post by kievthegreat on Sept 30, 2022 8:59:01 GMT
In the USA doesn’t charged mean formally accused? In which case it’s not been to trial or proven if he fled I don't know the ins and outs of American justice, but... www.al.com/breaking/2013/05/rape_case_involving_self-depor.htmlThis article suggests he was on bail when he fled. "The DA's office is not involved in the initial setting of bond or of the conditions of bond," the statement said. "As such, we are not in the position to require defendants to surrender their passports as part of their original bond conditions. Although our office does ask for specific bond conditions in certain situations as cases develop, at this point nothing would be gained by doing that since the defendant is no longer in the country. "On the issue of international extradition, the DA's office simply does not have the capacity to extradite defendants from foreign nations without involving the U.S. State Department. It was determined that based upon the facts of this case, and based upon the fact that the defendant cannot now return to the United States without facing criminal charges, we will not be expending the resources necessary to seek his extradition." |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Sept 30, 2022 10:54:02 GMT
It's all quite strange. Clearly they knew of the charges as they were discussed in the interview with him, so somebody did do some sort of check. It's what went on from finding it out to signing him that is baffling. The only reason I can think they thought it was o.k is that they asked him about it privately and he told them it had been resolved. At which point they just accepted what he said without investigating further. The only alternative to that is knew it all and just it was o.k to sign him anyway. I dont put anything past the powers that be accross the EIHL but surely they wouldn't be that stupid(just slightly less stupid). What's more remaekable is how he has managed to play in Denmark, Finland, Germany, Austria and Italy with no apparent issues. I'm just glad that the EIHL *hasn't* now joined the list of shame of teams and leagues that turned a blind eye to this *bleeps* predation just for the sake of on ice product. So kudos and thanks to all those fans who stood up and said no more and not in my name As for the thinking it's okay to sign him anyway, just look at the Canadians drafting of Logan Mailloux this year - a guy with a sexual offense conviction as a junior. He was convicted of taking a picture of a teenager performing a sex act without her consent and sharing it with his teammates. He admitted it, under Swedish law has been convicted of a sexual offence and has a record there now as a sexual predator. And yet he was drafted by the Canadians anyway. And it's not like it wasn't common knowledge. In fact it was such common knowledge in the media that before the draft he specifically asked teams not too draft him in the hope the story would die down. Montreal drafted him anyway. And then went oops when a similar ####storm enveloped them. And sadly this is just one of many such stories where teams have put in ice product ahead of sexual and other violent offences. So am I surprised Clan tried to sign him: sadly no. Did there current position make them take a risk they might not have otherwise? Who knows? Am I surprised they tried to pretend they didn't actually sign him in their tweet last night: again no. Another gutless choice Am I proud of the Clan and other teams fans that stood up and said not in my name: hell yeah! Is it just unbelievable to me that any professionally run team could think they could sign him, and then get naively conned into saying he'd been cleared of he hadn't: hell yes! Because it's a lawsuit from his victims waiting to happen So do heads need to roll for this: definitely! At best, it's incompetence and a failure of due diligence. At worst, it's endorsement and enablement. To any and all Clan fans and all teams fans who posted about their opposition to this yesterday, thank you and I'm proud of you. I could not have attended any game involving Clan had he stayed and I could not in good conscience have paid money for Panthers tickets knowing that the ultimate recipient of those funds (Neil Black) was benefiting whilst he allowed another team of his to do this. |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Sept 30, 2022 11:23:56 GMT
I just went back and reread Chalmers statement from Monday (about Clans performance and prior to yesterday's signing) and can't help thinking that the final paragraphs about difficult decisions and being accountable must surely have sealed his fate in light of the recent events: "If we have to make changes to achieve those ambitions, rest assured difficult decisions will be made. This is a team game, on the ice and off the ice it’s one big team, from myself, Gerry, Malcolm, the players, the staff – we are all accountable and collectively we’re fully focused on turning this corner together! Gareth" clanihc.com/statement-from-managing-director-gareth-chalmers/It's hard to see how Black could not hold him accountable for yesterday's debacle only days after a statement where he says he and the coach are both accountable and focused on turning the corner... And then sign who they did |
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Post by chucka1 on Sept 30, 2022 16:08:41 GMT
According to the BBC,Cameron and Campbell have been suspended whilst investigations- presumably by NB - are undertaken.
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