nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Jan 12, 2022 11:18:15 GMT
Nothing has changed. Mid table, complaints about under investment, mediocre signings and little change in the back office.
If you trawl these boards the topics are cyclical, same thing coming up over and over again.
No fan power is the crux of the issues for the Panthers from where I am sitting. ‘Your’ Nottingham panthers is a joke. There is no influence from fans to ice.
And there is no need for Black to allow any as a strong casual fan base in a city full of people who make 4 or 5 games a year pulls acceptable crowds every week no matter what the result. The organisations pockets are lined with a decent profit to make it worth it.
The club can survive on that casual fan base alone and if it keeps it’s expenditure down, and even if it lost the ‘hard core’ fan elements, the revenue would be largely unchanged.
The casual fan base should be an asset the provides security against the risk of striving to improve yet its the Achilles heel.
Just my viewpoint after a prolonged break and following other sports and clubs of similar stature.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 12, 2022 11:31:10 GMT
Welcome back Nate.  I'm not sure the casual fan base is a sustainable footing for the club really, I think even NB & The Bermuda Triangle will be worried if that core of reliable support is eroded too far. I suppose it depends how often those casual fans become every week fans? I know he apparently used to go on about preferring walk ups because they paid more, but I doubt that guarantee of X thousand fans every year will be easy to restore once it's gone. From personal experience once you stop going every week, it's very easy to not go back at all. When the wolf's at the door, as we've had with Covid this last couple of years, if you're turning to casual fans to help you through you're going to be in trouble. I don't think we're there yet, there's still a core, but more and more seem to be calling it a day. |
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
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Post by Robbie Nud on Jan 12, 2022 13:17:44 GMT
A lot of walk ups tended to be on a saturday night, you would see groups all dressed up ready to start their evening with a game, few drinks and then hit the town.
With fewer and fewer saturday games, people arent wanting / willing to do on a tuesday, wednesday evening or some respects a sunday afternoon.
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The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 12, 2022 13:22:17 GMT
A lot of walk ups tended to be on a saturday night, you would see groups all dressed up ready to start their evening with a game, few drinks and then hit the town. With fewer and fewer saturday games, people arent wanting / willing to do on a tuesday, wednesday evening or some respects a sunday afternoon. I hear we have just lost another Saturday to boxing? |
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Higgy
Les Strongman
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Post by Higgy on Jan 12, 2022 14:16:28 GMT
Saturday nights are an easy sell to a casual fan, I suspect Sundays are better for a family audience...midweek...hard sell to anybody even season ticket holders.
My worry is the fewer fans attend games (as is happening) the less money Panthers brings in and the easier it is for the arena to bump us from Saturday nights in the future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 15:01:16 GMT
Very good post. It's true nothing has changed over the last 5 years.. and come back in another 5 years and it will be exactly the same.. panthers bungling along just doing enough to be competitive.
I don't expect many Saturday night games next year either.. I've said many times before if this arena was out of town (like the HOS is) it would be practically empty. It's location keeps things sustainable
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The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 12, 2022 15:36:11 GMT
Very good post. It's true nothing has changed over the last 5 years.. and come back in another 5 years and it will be exactly the same.. panthers bungling along just doing enough to be competitive. I don't expect many Saturday night games next year either.. I've said many times before if this arena was out of town (like the HOS is) it would be practically empty. It's location keeps things sustainable The HOS is different because of the DNA, match night experience and most important of all the Steelers are owned by a genuine nailed on fan |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 15:49:27 GMT
Very good post. It's true nothing has changed over the last 5 years.. and come back in another 5 years and it will be exactly the same.. panthers bungling along just doing enough to be competitive. I don't expect many Saturday night games next year either.. I've said many times before if this arena was out of town (like the HOS is) it would be practically empty. It's location keeps things sustainable The HOS is different because of the DNA, match night experience and most important of all the Steelers are owned by a genuine nailed on fan Oh yes things have turned around there but when times were hard with previous owners crowds were tragically low as only fans went there wasn't many casual walk ups what you get at a city centre venue |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 12, 2022 17:45:09 GMT
A lot of walk ups tended to be on a saturday night, you would see groups all dressed up ready to start their evening with a game, few drinks and then hit the town. With fewer and fewer saturday games, people arent wanting / willing to do on a tuesday, wednesday evening or some respects a sunday afternoon. True,but I don’t understand why this keeps happening more and more,it’s like Panthers don’t fight the fight with the arena. At the end of the day whilst understanding that a concert probably provides the arena with more money than a hockey game the building was built primarily as a sporting venue with funding from Sport England or whatever and Panthers are a core tenant. Every NIC event I’ve ever been to that wasn’t hockey has been a sell out so is it really that important that Amir Khan, Carl Froch,John Bishop,Dynamo or U2 etc are there on a Saturday ? I think not and Panthers should play more hardball with the NIC and stick up for their fans more. |
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Post by bobness on Jan 12, 2022 20:25:28 GMT
A lot of walk ups tended to be on a saturday night, you would see groups all dressed up ready to start their evening with a game, few drinks and then hit the town. With fewer and fewer saturday games, people arent wanting / willing to do on a tuesday, wednesday evening or some respects a sunday afternoon. True,but I don’t understand why this keeps happening more and more,it’s like Panthers don’t fight the fight with the arena. At the end of the day whilst understanding that a concert probably provides the arena with more money than a hockey game the building was built primarily as a sporting venue with funding from Sport England or whatever and Panthers are a core tenant. Every NIC event I’ve ever been to that wasn’t hockey has been a sell out so is it really that important that Amir Khan, Carl Froch,John Bishop,Dynamo or U2 etc are there on a Saturday ? I think not and Panthers should play more hardball with the NIC and stick up for their fans more. I can't believe you typed that last sentence... With the arena trying desperately to generate enough money to pay back the loans it's had to have to even exist during and post covid (basically the building was shut for 18 months) Saturday nights these days will go to the highest bidder I suspect, certainly this year and maybe going forward a bit more than "normal". The NIC will keep some dates back that it pretty much knows it will fill with a better paying tenant for the night, I'd suspect. I don't think there is any agreement for a "minimum 15 home games on a Saturday night" is there? If not, then you take what you can get, which looks a lot to me like what's happened. Many more Sundays than "normal". One can only hope it is short term. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 12, 2022 20:53:28 GMT
True,but I don’t understand why this keeps happening more and more,it’s like Panthers don’t fight the fight with the arena. At the end of the day whilst understanding that a concert probably provides the arena with more money than a hockey game the building was built primarily as a sporting venue with funding from Sport England or whatever and Panthers are a core tenant. Every NIC event I’ve ever been to that wasn’t hockey has been a sell out so is it really that important that Amir Khan, Carl Froch,John Bishop,Dynamo or U2 etc are there on a Saturday ? I think not and Panthers should play more hardball with the NIC and stick up for their fans more. I can't believe you typed that last sentence... With the arena trying desperately to generate enough money to pay back the loans it's had to have to even exist during and post covid (basically the building was shut for 18 months) Saturday nights these days will go to the highest bidder I suspect, certainly this year and maybe going forward a bit more than "normal". The NIC will keep some dates back that it pretty much knows it will fill with a better paying tenant for the night, I'd suspect. I don't think there is any agreement for a "minimum 15 home games on a Saturday night" is there? If not, then you take what you can get, which looks a lot to me like what's happened. Many more Sundays than "normal". One can only hope it is short term. Works two ways,if the NIC want to give Panthers a load of Wednesday nights then they’ll get lower hockey crowds and less people buying food and drink. In my experience it doesn’t seem to matter what night a big concert is they’ll get pretty much a full house. I don’t really care what they do,but over the years Saturday nights have just slowly slipped away more and more. As the saying goes,”give em an inch and they’ll take a mile” and in the NIC’s case that’s what they’re doing. What if they said we can make more out of concerts and we need cash so all your getting next year is Monday nights. Then as it’s the only ice arena anywhere around the city Mr Black would be well and truly up the creek without a paddle ! |
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by Discoray on Jan 12, 2022 20:55:59 GMT
I can't believe you typed that last sentence... With the arena trying desperately to generate enough money to pay back the loans it's had to have to even exist during and post covid (basically the building was shut for 18 months) Saturday nights these days will go to the highest bidder I suspect, certainly this year and maybe going forward a bit more than "normal". The NIC will keep some dates back that it pretty much knows it will fill with a better paying tenant for the night, I'd suspect. I don't think there is any agreement for a "minimum 15 home games on a Saturday night" is there? If not, then you take what you can get, which looks a lot to me like what's happened. Many more Sundays than "normal". One can only hope it is short term. While it's obviously been far from a normal past couple of years, on the flip side, they also haven't been dire. There has been various tax rebates, reliefs, deferrals, grants, loans etc. and the furlough scheme to top all those support schemes off. Costs have been vastly reduced in line with the reduced income for a great many businesses, and it's all too easy to make it black & white by focusing only on one or two aspects of it. |
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 12, 2022 23:32:19 GMT
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 13, 2022 0:24:59 GMT
Begs the question....why did four directors resign at audit time ? |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Jan 13, 2022 0:31:33 GMT
Key paragraph from that article must surely be... "Forthcoming arena show volumes are very high with bookings for several years ahead above normal levels." Which would suggest that regular Saturday games will not be a steady staple part of the Panthers schedule for a while perhaps. |
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Post by nightwish on Jan 13, 2022 5:59:54 GMT
I don’t the contract between the NIC and Panthers but I suspect that the NIC offer ‘x’ number of dates Between beginning of August and end of March. No doubt there are Saturday nights available but I would hazard a guess the contract states that the NIC can then reallocate them to other events. I wonder if the Panthers pay a different fee for different days , with the NiC charging a higher fee for Saturday than they do for Tuesday?
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Post by bobness on Jan 13, 2022 7:56:30 GMT
Begs the question....why did four directors resign at audit time ? Age/ time served would be my guess. Mitch Stevenson is nearly 80 I think? |
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Post by bobness on Jan 13, 2022 7:57:53 GMT
I don’t the contract between the NIC and Panthers but I suspect that the NIC offer ‘x’ number of dates Between beginning of August and end of March. No doubt there are Saturday nights available but I would hazard a guess the contract states that the NIC can then reallocate them to other events. I wonder if the Panthers pay a different fee for different days , with the NiC charging a higher fee for Saturday than they do for Tuesday? Fully expect this to be true. Doubt very much Panthers pay a flat fee per game regardless. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 13, 2022 8:14:34 GMT
I don’t the contract between the NIC and Panthers but I suspect that the NIC offer ‘x’ number of dates Between beginning of August and end of March. No doubt there are Saturday nights available but I would hazard a guess the contract states that the NIC can then reallocate them to other events. I wonder if the Panthers pay a different fee for different days , with the NiC charging a higher fee for Saturday than they do for Tuesday? Fully expect this to be true. Doubt very much Panthers pay a flat fee per game regardless. Oh yes I bet it’s cheaper to hire the arena on a week day night than it is for a Saturday night. That might just explain the poor schedule somewhat. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 13, 2022 8:20:54 GMT
Begs the question....why did four directors resign at audit time ? Age/ time served would be my guess. Mitch Stevenson is nearly 80 I think? Ha it wouldn’t be my guess. Still it explains why Dan Green is no longer on Panthers payroll if Mitch Stevenson is no longer there on the board at the NIC. No need to keep Mitch happy any more now. |
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Post by bobness on Jan 13, 2022 12:29:43 GMT
Age/ time served would be my guess. Mitch Stevenson is nearly 80 I think? Ha it wouldn’t be my guess. Still it explains why Dan Green is no longer on Panthers payroll if Mitch Stevenson is no longer there on the board at the NIC. No need to keep Mitch happy any more now. Weirdly, MS is still showing on Companies House as a director. He'll be 81 in March. (He's resigning at the end of January, it seems) The 4 who did resign on 31 Dec 21 are Age 67, 11 years on the board. 64/20, 69/20 and 67/4. All are of course, non execs, so don't get paid by the NIC. One is an ex UK Managing partner at KPMG, one a former head of legal at the City, one a former partner at Browne Jacobson. Heavy hitters. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 13, 2022 17:27:43 GMT
Ha it wouldn’t be my guess. Still it explains why Dan Green is no longer on Panthers payroll if Mitch Stevenson is no longer there on the board at the NIC. No need to keep Mitch happy any more now. Weirdly, MS is still showing on Companies House as a director. He'll be 81 in March. (He's resigning at the end of January, it seems) The 4 who did resign on 31 Dec 21 are Age 67, 11 years on the board. 64/20, 69/20 and 67/4. All are of course, non execs, so don't get paid by the NIC. One is an ex UK Managing partner at KPMG, one a former head of legal at the City, one a former partner at Browne Jacobson. Heavy hitters. With resumes like that it makes you wonder how the hell they managed to lose the NIC £80k a WEEK. No wonder they resigned !! |
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Post by bobness on Jan 13, 2022 17:51:51 GMT
Weirdly, MS is still showing on Companies House as a director. He'll be 81 in March. (He's resigning at the end of January, it seems) The 4 who did resign on 31 Dec 21 are Age 67, 11 years on the board. 64/20, 69/20 and 67/4. All are of course, non execs, so don't get paid by the NIC. One is an ex UK Managing partner at KPMG, one a former head of legal at the City, one a former partner at Browne Jacobson. Heavy hitters. With resumes like that it makes you wonder how the hell they managed to lose the NIC £80k a WEEK. No wonder they resigned !! Unfair, I'm afraid. You try keeping a business afloat that has effectively near zero income for 18 months, yet still has most (if not all) of the fixed costs. Fixed costs are just that; fixed. There's no such thing as fixed revenue at the NIC, I'd imagine. I suspect Mel Egglenton has forgotten more about business than you or I will ever know. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 13, 2022 18:04:22 GMT
With resumes like that it makes you wonder how the hell they managed to lose the NIC £80k a WEEK. No wonder they resigned !! Unfair, I'm afraid. You try keeping a business afloat that has effectively near zero income for 18 months, yet still has most (if not all) of the fixed costs. Fixed costs are just that; fixed. There's no such thing as fixed revenue at the NIC, I'd imagine. I suspect Mel Egglenton has forgotten more about business than you or I will ever know. And how’s it still got all the costs if it’s closed and they’ve either made all the staff redundant or furloughed them. And did they leave all the lights on just to waste electricity etc then ? Saying the NIC has most or all of the costs when it’s closed is like saying Panthers have the same costs when they’re not playing as they do when they have a team in place and they are playing. |
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The Flying Shirt
Paul Adey
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 13, 2022 18:48:13 GMT
With resumes like that it makes you wonder how the hell they managed to lose the NIC £80k a WEEK. No wonder they resigned !! Unfair, I'm afraid. You try keeping a business afloat that has effectively near zero income for 18 months, yet still has most (if not all) of the fixed costs. Fixed costs are just that; fixed. There's no such thing as fixed revenue at the NIC, I'd imagine. I suspect Mel Egglenton has forgotten more about business than you or I will ever know. I could be wrong but hasn't it been losing money for years? |
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