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Post by bobness on Dec 28, 2018 13:53:01 GMT
Now we're getting somewhere.
So do you think the Belfast team transplanted to Nottingham would be like the Panthers are now? (Inconsistent, lacklustre, shot-shy, brilliant in equal measures). I'm not sure I buy the location/arena idea, and puck bunnies are everywhere, so I'm not sure what it is. Is it too easy just to blame GM and a few quiz nights?
The quality players you speak of would probably attract the kind of money that is easily double (and then some) what we pay now. You're talking prime SHL/DEL/Swiss A league, Spengler Cup Team Canada types, for them to be so good as to not be "distracted" by the culture?
I'd love to see that kind of player, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it will happen? That said, Linglet was straight from the KHL (first ever for the EIHL?), Baun is in his prime straight out of the A, we've had several direct from the DEL players this year in the league? Maybe there's some mileage in that? Has Chernomaz not quite got his recruitment right? In that case, do you give him a second year then judge him?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 13:57:19 GMT
Just curious what would you change of the things mentioned above? Change Panthers from a social club to a sports club would be a start This pretty much but to be more specific there are a few things I'd change. I'd scrap the pub quizzes or minimise to one a year. Sure the 50 or so fans who go enjoy it but what is the actual benefit to the club? This Xmas dinner we've put on this year. If the players are expected to train on Xmas day(which I agree with) then they shouldn't have to ponce about with fans a few days before what many consider the biggest games of the season. I don't know where players are accommodated but are they in city centre apartments or houses? If so then move them further out of the city. With a group of young men, if you put temptation at their door in the form of pubs and clubs you are going to have instances of one or two of them drinking to excess and I have seen a couple of players this year at this point the night before a game but I won't be naming and shaming because as we've seen on here before that can go down a bad road. Something that I remembered last night. On that podcast Dan Green used to do, he referred to Belfast as Bel Vegas. This is a man on our coaching team who clearly associates one of our opponents rinks as a chance to drink. That will filter down to any youngster at the club. Our fanbase has to play it's part too. We are fans, not best friends and you see examples of fans who are way to pally with players on social media constantly. I'd like to see fans just step back and let hockey players be hockey players. This one I know will never happen, you'll always have fan girls but get rid of the pub quizzes...etc you may have a few less. Players arrive here, see a full modern arena, easy comfortable lifestyle and think they have it made. The hard work slows down and performances drop.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:01:15 GMT
With following the NHL for over 25 years I never wet myself when Panthers announce a signing who was a first round pick 10 years ago etc. It's merely a ranking and potential when they were 18 years old more often than not players never forfil that potential.
Look when we signed Laroque, utter garbage. I've lost count of the amount of players in this league over the years who were former 1st rounders who were pretty dreadful. On the flip side some of the games stars got drafted late. Shinobi will testify this
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:03:27 GMT
Now we're getting somewhere. So do you think the Belfast team transplanted to Nottingham would be like the Panthers are now? (Inconsistent, lacklustre, shot-shy, brilliant in equal measures). I'm not sure I buy the location/arena idea, and puck bunnies are everywhere, so I'm not sure what it is. Is it too easy just to blame GM and a few quiz nights? The quality players you speak of would probably attract the kind of money that is easily double (and then some) what we pay now. You're talking prime SHL/DEL/Swiss A league, Spengler Cup Team Canada types, for them to be so good as to not be "distracted" by the culture? I'd love to see that kind of player, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it will happen? That said, Linglet was straight from the KHL (first ever for the EIHL?), Baun is in his prime straight out of the A, we've had several direct from the DEL players this year in the league? Maybe there's some mileage in that? Has Chernomaz not quite got his recruitment right? In that case, do you give him a second year then judge him? I think if this cardiff team played out of Nottingham with everything that comes with it youd see very similar results/performances maybe slightly better as they have got some workhorses who work their socks off and graft and hard graft gets sucess.
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nottinghamsenator
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Post by nottinghamsenator on Dec 28, 2018 14:04:23 GMT
With following the NHL for over 25 years I never wet myself when Panthers announce a signing who was a first round pick 10 years ago etc. It's merely a ranking and potential when they were 18 years old more often than not players never forfil that potential. Look when we signed Laroque, utter garbage. I've lost count of the amount of players in this league over the years who were former 1st rounders who were pretty dreadful. On the flip side some of the games stars got drafted late. Shinobi will testify this Or indeed, not drafted at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:05:31 GMT
Now we're getting somewhere. So do you think the Belfast team transplanted to Nottingham would be like the Panthers are now? (Inconsistent, lacklustre, shot-shy, brilliant in equal measures). I'm not sure I buy the location/arena idea, and puck bunnies are everywhere, so I'm not sure what it is. Is it too easy just to blame GM and a few quiz nights? The quality players you speak of would probably attract the kind of money that is easily double (and then some) what we pay now. You're talking prime SHL/DEL/Swiss A league, Spengler Cup Team Canada types, for them to be so good as to not be "distracted" by the culture? I'd love to see that kind of player, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it will happen? That said, Linglet was straight from the KHL (first ever for the EIHL?), Baun is in his prime straight out of the A, we've had several direct from the DEL players this year in the league? Maybe there's some mileage in that? Has Chernomaz not quite got his recruitment right? In that case, do you give him a second year then judge him? I think if this cardiff team played out of Nottingham with everything that comes with it youd see very similar results/performances maybe slightly better as they have got some workhorses who work their socks off and graft and hard graft gets sucess. So why would these players graft harder in Nottingham than they do in Cardiff? What's holding them back in Cardiff?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:05:32 GMT
Change Panthers from a social club to a sports club would be a start This pretty much but to be more specific there are a few things I'd change. I'd scrap the pub quizzes or minimise to one a year. Sure the 50 or so fans who go enjoy it but what is the actual benefit to the club? This Xmas dinner we've put on this year. If the players are expected to train on Xmas day(which I agree with) then they shouldn't have to ponce about with fans a few days before what many consider the biggest games of the season. I don't know where players are accommodated but are they in city centre apartments or houses? If so then move them further out of the city. With a group of young men, if you put temptation at their door in the form of pubs and clubs you are going to have instances of one or two of them drinking to excess and I have seen a couple of players this year at this point the night before a game but I won't be naming and shaming because as we've seen on here before that can go down a bad road. Something that I remembered last night. On that podcast Dan Green used to do, he referred to Belfast as Bel Vegas. This is a man on our coaching team who clearly associates one of our opponents rinks as a chance to drink. That will filter down to any youngster at the club. Our fanbase has to play it's part too. We are fans, not best friends and you see examples of fans who are way to pally with players on social media constantly. I'd like to see fans just step back and let hockey players be hockey players. This one I know will never happen, you'll always have fan girls but get rid of the pub quizzes...etc you may have a few less. Players arrive here, see a full modern arena, easy comfortable lifestyle and think they have it made. The hard work slows down and performances drop. How Many players arrive in this league in the prime of their career?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:06:24 GMT
With following the NHL for over 25 years I never wet myself when Panthers announce a signing who was a first round pick 10 years ago etc. It's merely a ranking and potential when they were 18 years old more often than not players never forfil that potential. Look when we signed Laroque, utter garbage. I've lost count of the amount of players in this league over the years who were former 1st rounders who were pretty dreadful. On the flip side some of the games stars got drafted late. Shinobi will testify this Or indeed, not drafted at all. The 2nd greatest player of all time was undrafted 😉
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:08:23 GMT
I think if this cardiff team played out of Nottingham with everything that comes with it youd see very similar results/performances maybe slightly better as they have got some workhorses who work their socks off and graft and hard graft gets sucess. So why would these players graft harder in Nottingham than they do in Cardiff? What's holding them back in Cardiff? No you mis read. The current Cardiff team work for each other hence why I think they d do better in Nottingham than this current Panthers team but not by much . There isn't any hold backs in cardiff
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:10:42 GMT
This pretty much but to be more specific there are a few things I'd change. I'd scrap the pub quizzes or minimise to one a year. Sure the 50 or so fans who go enjoy it but what is the actual benefit to the club? This Xmas dinner we've put on this year. If the players are expected to train on Xmas day(which I agree with) then they shouldn't have to ponce about with fans a few days before what many consider the biggest games of the season. I don't know where players are accommodated but are they in city centre apartments or houses? If so then move them further out of the city. With a group of young men, if you put temptation at their door in the form of pubs and clubs you are going to have instances of one or two of them drinking to excess and I have seen a couple of players this year at this point the night before a game but I won't be naming and shaming because as we've seen on here before that can go down a bad road. Something that I remembered last night. On that podcast Dan Green used to do, he referred to Belfast as Bel Vegas. This is a man on our coaching team who clearly associates one of our opponents rinks as a chance to drink. That will filter down to any youngster at the club. Our fanbase has to play it's part too. We are fans, not best friends and you see examples of fans who are way to pally with players on social media constantly. I'd like to see fans just step back and let hockey players be hockey players. This one I know will never happen, you'll always have fan girls but get rid of the pub quizzes...etc you may have a few less. Players arrive here, see a full modern arena, easy comfortable lifestyle and think they have it made. The hard work slows down and performances drop. How Many players arrive in this league in the prime of their career? I'd say that point applies to every team in the league though. Cardiff, Belfast and Sheffield have historically managed that much better than us though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:18:45 GMT
Players still don't see this has league to progress their careers. How many announce their retirement once leaving this league or start their careers here from the college system. They come here for the easy lifestyle. They get paid (unlike what's just happened at that team in the EBEL) the majority go through the motions some more than others. It's the way it is I'm afraid. The sucess of Panthers in the CHL has had little bearing on attracting serious talented hockey players to this country
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Post by mansfieldpanther91 on Dec 28, 2018 14:28:23 GMT
I couldn't disagree more. Our reaction to being conned out of a goal was fantastic, I was proud of the team for the way the bounced back to get the go ahead goal. Its what happened after that is what was the biggest disgrace of the night. If some fans want to hide this team behind one poor refereeing decision then fair enough but I can tell you now that that won't change the fact that this is a 3rd/4th place team(at best) come the end of the season and one poor Darnell moment won't change that, look at the bigger problems. If that's fine for you then enjoy the rest of your season, many will. "We get the club we deserve" Rob Scott No fans are hiding behind them anywhere they know where we are at and what is happening. There's very little to nothing the fans can do. You say don't turn up but let me know when Panthers are AVERAGING 3,500/4,000 a night which would be just over half full. The Panthers/Black market the team as city centre entertainment more than a sports franchise. The only way things will change is if he sells up and a new owner comes in with different intentions but while there's money to be made it won't get sold. The way I see it is that it's inbedded into the Nottingham folks minds that Panthers is a night out starting point, that's thanks to GM and black , but it won't change now even if black sold up. I bet an average Saturday night game has 1000 people maybe more just there to start there night off. These people are the problem along with all the fan girls and boys for that matter that don't care about results aslong as the players stop for a photo with them or their kids. As much as I'd like Gm to step down or black to sell up it's gone too far to be reversed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 14:45:48 GMT
No fans are hiding behind them anywhere they know where we are at and what is happening. There's very little to nothing the fans can do. You say don't turn up but let me know when Panthers are AVERAGING 3,500/4,000 a night which would be just over half full. The Panthers/Black market the team as city centre entertainment more than a sports franchise. The only way things will change is if he sells up and a new owner comes in with different intentions but while there's money to be made it won't get sold. The way I see it is that it's inbedded into the Nottingham folks minds that Panthers is a night out starting point, that's thanks to GM and black , but it won't change now even if black sold up. I bet an average Saturday night game has 1000 people maybe more just there to start there night off. These people are the problem along with all the fan girls and boys for that matter that don't care about results aslong as the players stop for a photo with them or their kids. As much as I'd like Gm to step down or black to sell up it's gone too far to be reversed. Spot on the only alternative is find Panthers their own building out of town
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Post by Yotes on Dec 28, 2018 15:22:47 GMT
Have you seen Eric Werner’s CV ? Yes, I looked both of them up before replying. I couldn't remember what level either had played at. Neither had a poor CV, but again neither had one you'd think Black would have to break the bank for. Eric had bounced around a lot and came from a low level when he joined us. The better question for me is why, when we find one by luck or judgement, we struggle to keep really good imports on for multiple years (2 and done seems to be the maximum). Who was the last one to stick for any decent length of time? Kowalski? Other teams don't seem to have any issue getting imports to stick around for decent spells, which allows you to build your playing ethos. Who's been our Martin, or Roy, or Keefe etc? Guys who buy in and almost become the club for a period of time. I don't think it's down to Blacky being tight (or not only that anyway), there's something at Panthers that players don't want to stick around with too long.
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Post by PantherB on Dec 28, 2018 15:36:39 GMT
When looking on the 'Where are they now' page on Elite Prospects for each EIHL team.. the list is abysmal. The majority of past Panthers players are old Brits in the NIHL, some players are in the LNAH, with others also in senior leagues and maybe a very very small handful in decent leagues better than the EIHL. But it's not just restricted to Panthers, same with Belfast and Cardiff, Sheffield have more players in decent leagues but the majority are still washed up players playing beer league.
The amount of fuss the league makes when a player gets a jump into the AHL or other high quality league certainly gives a false impression that the EIHL is a stepping stone to a brighter hockey future. It isn't. It's a stepping stone to retirement or a beer league, if a player avoids both of those then they're lucky.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 28, 2018 15:41:11 GMT
Have you seen Eric Werner’s CV ? Yes, I looked both of them up before replying. I couldn't remember what level either had played at. Neither had a poor CV, but again neither had one you'd think Black would have to break the bank for. Eric had bounced around a lot and came from a low level when he joined us. The better question for me is why, when we find one by luck or judgement, we struggle to keep really good imports on for multiple years (2 and done seems to be the maximum). Who was the last one to stick for any decent length of time? Kowalski? Other teams don't seem to have any issue getting imports to stick around for decent spells, which allows you to build your playing ethos. Who's been our Martin, or Roy, or Keefe etc? Guys who buy in and almost become the club for a period of time. I don't think it's down to Blacky being tight (or not only that anyway), there's something at Panthers that players don't want to stick around with too long. Incredibly poor recruiting for various reasons. Long term injured players and players who come for uni deals or know the reputation here. We haven’t had a player of the quality of Martin or Roy for a very long time and if we did they didn’t want to stick around.
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Post by wgray on Dec 28, 2018 16:24:09 GMT
Yes, I looked both of them up before replying. I couldn't remember what level either had played at. Neither had a poor CV, but again neither had one you'd think Black would have to break the bank for. Eric had bounced around a lot and came from a low level when he joined us. The better question for me is why, when we find one by luck or judgement, we struggle to keep really good imports on for multiple years (2 and done seems to be the maximum). Who was the last one to stick for any decent length of time? Kowalski? Other teams don't seem to have any issue getting imports to stick around for decent spells, which allows you to build your playing ethos. Who's been our Martin, or Roy, or Keefe etc? Guys who buy in and almost become the club for a period of time. I don't think it's down to Blacky being tight (or not only that anyway), there's something at Panthers that players don't want to stick around with too long. Incredibly poor recruiting for various reasons. Long term injured players and players who come for uni deals or know the reputation here. We haven’t had a player of the quality of Martin or Roy for a very long time and if we did they didn’t want to stick around. Going off his short stint last season I thought Pither was going to be that man, the player we could rely on to pull us out of a hole. What has happened to him, where’s his confidence and self-belief that was evident last season?
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Post by pantherlee on Dec 28, 2018 18:12:11 GMT
Incredibly poor recruiting for various reasons. Long term injured players and players who come for uni deals or know the reputation here. We haven’t had a player of the quality of Martin or Roy for a very long time and if we did they didn’t want to stick around. Going off his short stint last season I thought Pither was going to be that man, the player we could rely on to pull us out of a hole. What has happened to him, where’s his confidence and self-belief that was evident last season? Because he's on lines with players who can't score. He still has 14 goals and 17 assists which is still respectable but i can't remember him once being used on the top line. Yet Hurtubise has spent plenty of time on the top line yet has fewer points. He might have more assists but then he will playing all that time with Guptill who's scoring for fun. How many assists is Pither going to get playing with Ollie and Lacho?
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Post by wgray on Dec 28, 2018 18:23:18 GMT
Going off his short stint last season I thought Pither was going to be that man, the player we could rely on to pull us out of a hole. What has happened to him, where’s his confidence and self-belief that was evident last season? Because he's on lines with players who can't score. He still has 14 goals and 17 assists which is still respectable but i can't remember him once being used on the top line. Yet Hurtubise has spent plenty of time on the top line yet has fewer points. He might have more assists but then he will playing all that time with Guptill who's scoring for fun. How many assists is Pither going to get playing with Ollie and Lacho? I completely agree with you Lee and you’re probably spot on in terms of why he doesn’t seem as effective as last season. I think that Rheault and Henderson will go straight onto a line with Luke when they return.
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Post by Joe on Dec 28, 2018 18:42:22 GMT
Going off his short stint last season I thought Pither was going to be that man, the player we could rely on to pull us out of a hole. What has happened to him, where’s his confidence and self-belief that was evident last season? Because he's on lines with players who can't score. He still has 14 goals and 17 assists which is still respectable but i can't remember him once being used on the top line. Yet Hurtubise has spent plenty of time on the top line yet has fewer points. He might have more assists but then he will playing all that time with Guptill who's scoring for fun. How many assists is Pither going to get playing with Ollie and Lacho? Maybe but defensively Pither is poor and currently his offensive output isn’t making up for that.
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Post by Spooks on Dec 29, 2018 1:24:43 GMT
Now we're getting somewhere. So do you think the Belfast team transplanted to Nottingham would be like the Panthers are now? (Inconsistent, lacklustre, shot-shy, brilliant in equal measures). I'm not sure I buy the location/arena idea, and puck bunnies are everywhere, so I'm not sure what it is. Is it too easy just to blame GM and a few quiz nights? The quality players you speak of would probably attract the kind of money that is easily double (and then some) what we pay now. You're talking prime SHL/DEL/Swiss A league, Spengler Cup Team Canada types, for them to be so good as to not be "distracted" by the culture? I'd love to see that kind of player, don't get me wrong, but I doubt it will happen? That said, Linglet was straight from the KHL (first ever for the EIHL?), Baun is in his prime straight out of the A, we've had several direct from the DEL players this year in the league? Maybe there's some mileage in that? Has Chernomaz not quite got his recruitment right? In that case, do you give him a second year then judge him? I do not think it`s too easy, What it is the the only thing consitent within the club over the past 20 years (ONE LEAGUE WIN) Meaning well is not good enough for a sports club, so it is and will be a social club until the entire back room staff is given the boot. But yay people can always go for a quiz....... yippeeeeee
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loupowell52
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Post by loupowell52 on Dec 29, 2018 7:07:52 GMT
Will we see Rheault on the ice again this season ? Time for a BIG decision by the Club. When, or if, he returns he will be so far behind in terms of physical and mental fitness, not to mention actual game sharpness, as to make it hugely challenging for him to have any real impact. Also, as our Head Coach simply doesn't seem to rate Macho at all, perhaps "Bobby From Beeston" should check out bed and breakfast options in Hull, Peterborough, Swindon or Telford in readiness for next season.
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Post by bobness on Dec 30, 2018 11:26:43 GMT
I'm just watching the Devils vs Hurricanes game from New Jersey yesterday. If you want to see an even more inexplicable "no goal" call, have a look at the last 2 minutes.
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Post by wgray on Dec 30, 2018 11:55:12 GMT
I'm just watching the Devils vs Hurricanes game from New Jersey yesterday. If you want to see an even more inexplicable "no goal" call, have a look at the last 2 minutes. I’ve just watched that, it’s pathetic, how does that contact prevent the NJ goalie from making a save?! I’ve seen a lot of outcry from NHL fans about the goalie interference calls that are being made and how inconsistent it is from referee to referee. The NHL has the best players in the world but for me it’s not as exciting anymore. It’s become too sanitised with the lack of heavyweight fighting, decisions like this don’t do it any favours either in my opinion. It feels like I’m watching the premier league, if you even breathe on the goalie it’s a foul, it’s pathetic.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 12:01:02 GMT
I started watching the NHL in the 90s, today's league ain't a patch on that for entertainment and general play. The officiating was a whole lot better as well. Being too sanatised is a understatement
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