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Post by gazzathedevil on Mar 6, 2007 11:30:10 GMT
As I posted earlier, if the Elite League do waive the six game rule for Sheffield, I'd still like to know what happens if for some reason Gallant has to sit out one of our next six games. If it's five games for Sheffield, then it's five games for Gallant too. For me its circumstance though, Vez and Agostino COULD have played 6 games as per Elite league rules, but for situations out of thier control. That last bit is key for me. If Gallant doesnt come over because he is still contracted and has to play for his German team then i wouldnt back such a situation as it would be a Panthers mistake for not checking, if however the German Team stop his registration once his commitments are finished then i would feel sorry for the Panthers. For me the league has to back the Steelers on this one.
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Post by mattscold on Mar 6, 2007 11:42:28 GMT
Oh make no mistake Gazza they will, whether i agree with it or not is another matter! Its not that its the Steelers, because suprisingly i neither like or dislike them they are just another club, but its the unproffesionalism of our league, setting out so called "rules" then not sticking to them!
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Post by Luca Toni on Mar 6, 2007 11:42:45 GMT
As I posted earlier, if the Elite League do waive the six game rule for Sheffield, I'd still like to know what happens if for some reason Gallant has to sit out one of our next six games. If it's five games for Sheffield, then it's five games for Gallant too. For me its circumstance though, Vez and Agostino COULD have played 6 games as per Elite league rules, but for situations out of thier control. That last bit is key for me. If Gallant doesnt come over because he is still contracted and has to play for his German team then i wouldnt back such a situation as it would be a Panthers mistake for not checking, if however the German Team stop his registration once his commitments are finished then i would feel sorry for the Panthers. For me the league has to back the Steelers on this one. And your mate St. Bob of Phillips of course.
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MP
Paul Adey
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Post by MP on Mar 6, 2007 12:58:37 GMT
Vez and Agostino COULD have played 6 games as per Elite league rules, but for situations out of thier control. That last bit is key for me. Not strictly true though is it Gazza. If the Steelers had been specific on all details of the transfer then the situation wouldn't have arisen. Seems they didn't obtain specific, binding assurances when the deal was being hammered out. It could be argued that was within their control...... This is what happens when rules are badly drafted then tinkered with along the way by people with vested interests. Seems like the usual sorry mess that British ice hockey gets itself into at every opportunity.
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Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
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Post by Rich on Mar 6, 2007 13:27:45 GMT
Vez and Agostino COULD have played 6 games as per Elite league rules, but for situations out of thier control. That last bit is key for me. Not strictly true though is it Gazza. If the Steelers had been specific on all details of the transfer then the situation wouldn't have arisen. Seems they didn't obtain specific, binding assurances when the deal was being hammered out. It could be argued that was within their control...... This is what happens when rules are badly drafted then tinkered with along the way by people with vested interests. Seems like the usual sorry mess that British ice hockey gets itself into at every opportunity. All summed up IMO! If they let them play its a break of the rules, end of. Any team in the league that should apply to, the fact its steelers after theyre intrest to "sticking to the rules" with ME makes it even worse but rules are rules. If they didnt want to pay the 6k dont pay it, its not the leagues fault but the league will suffer an evern worse name if it doesnt stick to the rules. Thats not really my opinion, thats fact. Something along the lines of a paperwork mess up by THE LEAGUE should be the only consideration for leniency. As for the Trevor Gallant situation, if he hadnt been in for 6games I wudnt expect him to make the playoffs, simple as that, if the German team he came from had wanted 6k and we said no I wudnt feel aggreived that the league wudnt let him play. We shall see....
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 13:39:45 GMT
You have GOT to be kiding me!?!?
May I sugest you revisit EVERY SINGLE thread on the specific ME situation and I defy you to find ANYTHING other than support for your stance once the situation became clear.
I was merley giving the facts as we know them. This has no bearing on my opinion of the situation which FWIW is still on your side.
Lets clarify the reason ME was not allowed to play in that one game, as many are getting a bit confused.
We tried to sign Steve, you said we couldn't because he was still REGISTERED to you. You then tried to register ME, by YOUR OWN argument this would mean you having 11 IMPORTS registered for that game, this is against the rules, the very rule you were using to stop Steve playing. you can't have it both ways.
Steves registration was then released afte the weekend thereby allowing the RIGHTFUL re-registration of ME.
Yes, we complained however this was in response to the fact that you were using one rule to stop Steve playing for us and then trying to ignore THE SAME rule to allow ME to play in that game for you.
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 13:51:40 GMT
Therein lies the problem, while this situation may be totally out of Sheffield's hands all I can see is Dave Simms' smug peasant face being backed by his self-righteous brigade. People who I would be only too happy to see fall off a cliff. Nemesis you make a couple of good points but spoil it all by talking about a certain team blocking the move and Steelers finding a way to get revenge. Not on here but on The Hockey Forum. Revenge obviously being for the good of British hockey. Not my opinion on what should be done mate. Simply a prediction of what will be done, and then what will inevitably follow, and I think we all know I'm right on this one eh? I think the remainder of my post says. You don't really think that some at our end will just let this drop if you are the ones to stop it do you? regardless of the rights or wrongs of the situation. It wil simply be used as 'validation' for us putting a stop to something you lot want at a future date.
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Post by Luca Toni on Mar 6, 2007 14:07:27 GMT
Which is why I think that if GM the GM really thinks this is the "biggest rivalry in Europe" he, or Neil Black, SHOULD try and block this. That would go further to creating "rivalry" than a million ridiculously worded enticements to come and watch panthers/steelers games.
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twix
Lorne Smith
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Post by twix on Mar 6, 2007 14:10:03 GMT
We tried to sign Steve, you said we couldn't because he was still REGISTERED to you. You then tried to register ME, by YOUR OWN argument this would mean you having 11 IMPORTS registered for that game, this is against the rules, the very rule you were using to stop Steve playing. you can't have it both ways. Steves registration was then released afte the weekend thereby allowing the RIGHTFUL re-registration of ME. Yes, we complained however this was in response to the fact that you were using one rule to stop Steve playing for us and then trying to ignore THE SAME rule to allow ME to play in that game for you. Not sure where you got those ideas from. A) There is a major difference between having an import player registered to play (the maximum as you state is 11) and having import players under contract with your team. Many teams including the Steelers have a habit of de-registering injured imports in order to register other imports as temporary cover. The injured player is stiull under contract with the club in question and that is why their sick pay comes out of that club's insurance and why they can return to the team without re-sogning a new contract once they are well again. The fact that Steve was de-registered for reasons other than an injury is totally irrelevant. He was still under contract though he couldn't actually ice for the Panthers. B) The Steelers tried to stop the registration of ME under a totally separate rule. According to them ME had already been registered and de-registered more than the maximum number of times allowed to one player during a season. However that was only becasue they calimed that ME's IIHF registration to play in the continental cup tournament only, should be included in the maximum allowed duriung the season. That is patenetly nonsense as the continental cup tournament has as little (if not less) relevance to the EIHL season as do the friendlies between EIHL and EPL clubs.
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Post by texpef on Mar 6, 2007 14:23:10 GMT
again though twix a case or rewriting history to suit the steelers perspective, as this cockup by them shows (yet they want the league to support them in their mistake).... unbelievable, i cant believe how far they will go in their righteous attitude to the league and other clubs.
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 14:27:46 GMT
Wrong I'm afraid mate. And all the details above came from a press conferance I attended.
You said Steve could not sign for us as he was still registered to you giving you your full quota of 10.
You then tried to register ME as well, this would have put you up to 11 for that one single game. We complained (rightly IMO), the league agreed and he was stopped.
You then released and de-registered Steve dropping you down to 9, and re-registered ME bringing you back to 10. We complained about the amount of times ME had registered over the year (wrongly in this case IMO) the league disagreed and Mike played from then on.
Actualy 2 seperate situations forming part of the same incident.
You kept and used Steves registration as a way of stopping him play that weekend meaning you were already 'full' You cannot then expect to register an 11th import for the game whether one of them is playing or not. Simple realy, although I acept it got clouded by all the gumph at the time. I'm lucky I suppose to have had the full situation relayed to us at a press conferance. At the same conferance Matsos actualy said he would have done EXACTLY the same, although not in so much as trying to play to many imports.
That post TBH mate was in response to somone claiming I had double standards when if you read the threads at the time you wil see nothing is further from the truth.
I agree with the how's of you stopping Steve playing, although prior to the press releases I will admit to being 'steaming' with rage initialy. I agree with the Steelers stance on ME playing that one single game, you realy can't have it both ways. I disagreed with the protest in relation to how many times ME had been registered and fully supported your views on the CC fiasco in relation to ME playing again after that one game.
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Post by lps on Mar 6, 2007 14:43:53 GMT
Wrong I'm afraid mate. And all the details above came from a press conferance I attended. You said Steve could not sign for us as he was still registered to you giving you your full quota of 10. You then tried to register ME as well, this would have put you up to 11 for that one single game. We complained (rightly IMO), the league agreed and he was stopped. You then released and de-registered Steve dropping you down to 9, and re-registered ME bringing you back to 10. We complained about the amount of times ME had registered over the year (wrongly in this case IMO) the league disagreed and Mike played from then on. Actualy 2 seperate situations forming part of the same incident. Sorry to query this Nem. But your above comment doesn't quite add up to what was posted on the Steelers website. Nottingham Panthers coach Mike Ellis has been told by the Elite League Chairman that he can't play tonight against the Steelers (face off 7.00pm) Ellis has already been registered and de-registered twice this season, a 3rd time would be against League Rules Ellis registered for the Panthers to play in the Continental Cup and then again later in the year to cover for an injured Panther. bmibaby Elite League Rules state that a player can only be registered twice ....... Unlucky Mike You also mention that you were at a press conference. To hold any weight, this had to be an Elite League press conference. Was it an EIHL press conference? Trying to get back on thread. Why are you so keen to get the Panthers fans support? As already stated before, it is the clubs management and the EIHL to agree a way forward. Maybe the Panthers should put something on their website saying that Rules Are Rules....... Unlucky Simmsy
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Mar 6, 2007 14:50:22 GMT
Nemesis... whether you are right or wrong in this case, you are on seriously dodgy ground claiming that you have all the facts based upon attending one press conference - a Steelers press conference.
Even if the Steelers had a spotless record for being open and honest, that would still be only one side of the story - and is bound to be slanted. Given the well-known reputation of the Steelers for mud-slinging, rabble-rousing, spin, cheating and outright lies... quite frankly, that side of the story doesn't really have much going for it in the believability stakes.
Like it or not, however bad the Panthers PR reputation may be... the Steelers' is much, much worse.
Which is one of the reasons - and specifically, their actions in the Ellis debacle - that despite the fact that the available story (also communicated to us through said Steelers PR machine, so is it the whole truth?) seems to indicate that they're actually the innocent victims here (as strange as that may seem)... quite frankly I see no reason to give them any leeway whatsoever.
Live by the sword, die by the sword... quite appropriate for a steel-making city, really.
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Post by mortimershoals on Mar 6, 2007 14:55:27 GMT
although prior to the press releases I will admit to being 'steaming' with rage initialy. You want to get out more ;D
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 15:11:00 GMT
Not 'keen' to get support either way, for the reasons you specify. Simply interested in your thoughts.
As to the statement from our site, that was not the situation as described and released to the press by persons other than DS. As many thought at the time, the 'truth' was round about the middle with legitimacy on both sides. There is a wide gap between someone having carte blanch with regard to 'spin' on a non publicly controlled web site, and someone lying in response to direct questioning at a press conferance, knowing that their responses were being recorded and would be printed. Obviously the actual conferances I attend are usualy in Sheffield, however, that is not the only source of PR I get sent, and was not in this case.
If you did release such a statement as you describe on your site, the irony would not be lost on all steelers fans I can assure you.
I'm gonna let this one go now, I seem to just be repeating myself over and over. Will await the league's stand with interest. We are told they will play at the weekend in any case.
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 15:12:24 GMT
although prior to the press releases I will admit to being 'steaming' with rage initialy. You want to get out more ;D Very true. Got a deadline to meet however...
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Post by mortimershoals on Mar 6, 2007 15:19:29 GMT
You want to get out more ;D Very true. Got a deadline to meet however... Good luck. I'm sure you'll tell us all about it when the time comes.
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Post by jd on Mar 6, 2007 15:27:37 GMT
Fine by me - a full roster is always good to see
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 15:30:11 GMT
I sure will. I'm hoping, if all goes to plan, I might soon be national!
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Post by spik on Mar 6, 2007 16:05:16 GMT
Now it's been said that Elite email to a fan suggests there never was a 6 game rule. So whats all the fuss then? Theres a fuss because someone said so and this seems to be radiating all over the league right this minute.
I remember Gallant having to get into the Panthers squad by a certain time (it was thought) .......was it the Evening Post that stated anything in it's remarks? Certainly 8 games were mentioned as games he'd be playing.Hopefully worth the plane ride.
Just bought my Hull and Quarter final tickets today and the lady said a new player had arrived we have paid 6K and signed Vez Sacr....opps....
Trevor Gallants in town.
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Post by spik on Mar 6, 2007 16:09:33 GMT
I tell you Doom and Nemesis have thick skins.. Nice to hear your side of the arguements, thanks for your thoughts......although we may not agree.
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Post by Nemesis on Mar 6, 2007 16:12:31 GMT
Always a pleasure, never a chore! Interesting and for once quite a mature debate in the main.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Mar 6, 2007 16:15:33 GMT
Just wondering.... if £6000 is the going rate for Sacratiny and mini-mate, how much does it cost for a full-size player? ;D
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Doom
Greg Hadden
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Post by Doom on Mar 6, 2007 16:56:45 GMT
Just wondering.... if £6000 is the going rate for Sacratiny and mini-mate, how much does it cost for a full-size player? ;D Mike Torchia would come at some cost. Regards Doom
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Post by Rumpole on Mar 6, 2007 16:59:02 GMT
I remember Gallant having to get into the Panthers squad by a certain time (it was thought) .......was it the Evening Post that stated anything in it's remarks? Certainly not in the NEP. As I recall it, it was Steelers fans on here saying that if he didn't play in the last six games of the league season, he'd not be eligible for the play offs.
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