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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 10:10:51 GMT
Yes Scott Conway he's Bretts cousin .
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Apr 30, 2018 10:29:06 GMT
If we wanted we could add Martin & Hotham as they have played here 4 seasons which qualifies them. But this is exactly what I am against. Why should we pick these two? What qualifies them apart from playing here for four years? They are NOT British. They'd both have to apply for, and be granted, British citizenship before they were eligible. Don't believe either have that yet?
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Post by DonClaneone on Apr 30, 2018 16:53:19 GMT
I don't have a problem with Dual nationals, every major international sports team does it so why should ice hockey be any different? If these Dual nationals helped us to greater success then they should be applauded, not derided just because they lived here long enough to get a passport.
England's Cricket team is a prime example of Dual national success. Ben Stokes & Kevin Pietersen being the most notable names in recent times.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 17:03:10 GMT
If we wanted we could add Martin & Hotham as they have played here 4 seasons which qualifies them. But this is exactly what I am against. Why should we pick these two? What qualifies them apart from playing here for four years? They are NOT British. This is tricky isn't it.... A person born here, left as a child and now returns as we've made it to the top flight is considered more British than a person that drinks with us, plays with us and pays the same taxes as us... Both have the same accent. Some people I'd want in the trenches next to me others I wouldn't .... Is it an accident of birth location that makes a person British or what's in their hearts ? Me ? I'd rather us lose as a team than as a group of individuals. A team can always be rebuilt stronger, a group of individuals will always crack under pressure. Over to you GB coaching staff.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 30, 2018 17:27:45 GMT
But this is exactly what I am against. Why should we pick these two? What qualifies them apart from playing here for four years? They are NOT British. This is tricky isn't it.... A person born here, left as a child and now returns as we've made it to the top flight is considered more British than a person that drinks with us, plays with us and pays the same taxes as us... Both have the same accent. Some people I'd want in the trenches next to me others I wouldn't .... Is it an accident of birth location that makes a person British or what's in their hearts ? Me ? I'd rather us lose as a team than as a group of individuals. A team can always be rebuilt stronger, a group of individuals will always crack under pressure. Over to you GB coaching staff. Is that a serious post? Dual nationals have been prominent through thick and thin for team GB.... or do you genuinely think we have fairweather players who are only interested in some personal glory and don’t care for their team mates? They either have family ties or have chosen this country to come and do some honest work (pay their taxes etc) so why try and stop them? The tripe your on about being ‘in the trenches’ is both guff and ignorant. This whole thread strikes me as being a bit racist/xenophobic if I’m honest, trying to prove you’re more ‘British’ than others and not wanting people who grew up -or spent extended periods of their life- abroad to represent, what you perceive to be, YOUR country. ’Over to you Team GB staff’... I wonder what the opinion of Corey Neilson and Adam Keefe would be??
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 18:10:19 GMT
I don't want us loading up with dual nationals tbh. Give the kids a chance like Betteridge and kirk who helped get us there next year .
By bringing in players like Martin ain't going to make a huge difference in the grand scheme of things given the gulf in class GB will face. I would expect Mosey to be back in though
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 18:19:39 GMT
I take it you haven't read any of my other posts on this topic and you have little to no reading comprehension.
Calling me racist..... Mmmmmmm.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 30, 2018 18:46:22 GMT
I take it you haven't read any of my other posts on this topic and you have little to no reading comprehension. Calling me racist..... Mmmmmmm. I said that the thread is starting to get racist/xenophobic with some of the comments. At no point did I single you out as a racist personally. ...if you’re going to mention about struggling to comprehend posts. I must admit though, your awful nonsense about the trenches is ridiculous. If that’s in relation to not wanting to stand next to or trust someone from a different nation then I will have no issues to call you out as racist and xenophobic.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 19:10:03 GMT
But I started the topic.... and you said "this whole thread" So you did mean me, have the balls to stand by your words.... Or retract them.
I don't care what colour of skin a player has, black, gold, white.
All I'm interested in is having a discussion about where the GB team goes from here.... If having a discussion is racist then so be it I must be a racist nazi.
There are 3 parties here, young Brits that have learnt their trade here and helped get us to the top flight, dual nationals who have spent years playing in this country and are British by residency and dual nationals who have never been to this country and sing 'oh Canada ' for umpteen years but who now well could be persuaded to be British.
Are they ALL equal ?
Asking that question isn't racist, answering it with your own opinion isn't racist.
Who do I want representing MY country ?
Personally I would rather have someone who's lived here with us to represent this country than someone who hasn't... But equally just remember that Kevin Conway didn't think this country was good enough to spend the rest of his life in once he'd finished representing it.
O'Connor, Kelland and others who live here are as British as I am. So it's a very interesting topic.
But it ain't racist !
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Post by pantherlee on Apr 30, 2018 19:28:12 GMT
But I started the topic.... and you said "this whole thread" So you did mean me, have the balls to stand by your words.... Or retract them. I don't care what colour of skin a player has, black, gold, white. All I'm interested in is having a discussion about where the GB team goes from here.... If having a discussion is racist then so be it I must be a racist nazi. There are 3 parties here, young Brits that have learnt their trade here and helped get us to the top flight, dual nationals who have spent years playing in this country and are British by residency and dual nationals who have never been to this country and sing 'oh Canada ' for umpteen years but who now well could be persuaded to be British. Are they ALL equal ? Asking that question isn't racist, answering it with your own opinion isn't racist. Who do I want representing MY country ? Personally I would rather have someone who's lived here with us to represent this country than someone who hasn't... But equally just remember that Kevin Conway didn't think this country was good enough to spend the rest of his life in once he'd finished representing it. O'Connor, Kelland and others who live here are as British as I am. So it's a very interesting topic. But it ain't racist ! Why do you have to live here to care about being British. What a stupid statement. So what if certain players go back to Canada or wherever when they retire. Did they represent GB well is all that matters. Do you expects Perlini, Mosey, Erhardt, Brooks, Hammond etc to live here the rest of there lives to be worthy of representing GB?
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 30, 2018 19:29:43 GMT
But I started the topic.... and you said "this whole thread" So you did mean me, have the balls to stand by your words.... Or retract them. I don't care what colour of skin a player has, black, gold, white. All I'm interested in is having a discussion about where the GB team goes from here.... If having a discussion is racist then so be it I must be a racist nazi. There are 3 parties here, young Brits that have learnt their trade here and helped get us to the top flight, dual nationals who have spent years playing in this country and are British by residency and dual nationals who have never been to this country and sing 'oh Canada ' for umpteen years but who now well could be persuaded to be British. Are they ALL equal ? Asking that question isn't racist, answering it with your own opinion isn't racist. Who do I want representing MY country ? Personally I would rather have someone who's lived here with us to represent this country than someone who hasn't... But equally just remember that Kevin Conway didn't think this country was good enough to spend the rest of his life in once he'd finished representing it. O'Connor, Kelland and others who live here are as British as I am. So it's a very interesting topic. But it ain't racist ! Face firmly in my palm. Embarrassing response.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 20:05:05 GMT
I'd rather be embarrassing than a bare faced lier that says one thing and then tried to weasel their way out of it.
I have a preference....
How I can be considered racist by preferring a black Canadian player with no British parentage but who's qualified British by residency over a person who's parents emigrated whilst a toddler is beyond me...
If you can't debate, can I suggest you leave this topic alone.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 20:13:04 GMT
Face firmly in my palm. Embarrassing response. It's people like you that give us left wingers a bad reputation.... Political correctness crap that prevents honest conversations
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 30, 2018 20:39:42 GMT
I'd rather be embarrassing than a bare faced lier that says one thing and then tried to weasel their way out of it. I have a preference.... How I can be considered racist by preferring a black Canadian player with no British parentage but who's qualified British by residency over a person who's parents emigrated whilst a toddler is beyond me... If you can't debate, can I suggest you leave this topic alone. Lying and trying to weasel out of what? I’m debating by putting you and others (which you’ve decided to take ownership of everyone’s opinion for some reason) to task, rather than witnessing increasingly xenophobic opinions to surface without challenge. You’ve quite clear found this upsetting and can’t reason back without making outlandish and childish responses. Have you managed to come up with a justification what you meant by the standing in the trenches comment?
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Post by spik on Apr 30, 2018 20:43:13 GMT
...and can I add that this is a discussion/debate/etc...let's be civil gentlemen. I just want to say that as there are obviously two different camps that - would/would not - like to see the GB team bolstered up for next year,it is a good topic to discuss. Mainly because we need to associate if bolstering up for next year poses the question why we have not had this assumption to do it these past few seasons? Be it in lower tiers or not.We have wanted to strive to get up the ladder anyhow surely? If people were keen to play for GB by now they'd be here in the team would they not? Is this an option (to bring in more duals suddenly)that ONLY UK Icehockey will persue NOW rather than the past because.......?
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 20:49:48 GMT
You quoted me in your post !
You said the 'whole topic was racist\xenophobia....' You then weaseled out of it by saying you said 'was starting to be.....'..... Lier lier lier.
By quoting me you inferred I was a racist... And I'll defend myself against that slur.
Here's the thing, if you'd not quoted me in your post and as such associated me with your comments I'd actually have agreed with you...
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 20:56:31 GMT
Why should I have to justify my statement of 'standing in the trenches' it's not racist xenophobia it's just a saying that imply that some people you'd die for and others you wouldn't....
In the same way as some players you'd go the extra mile for, block shots, pass the puck in a goal scoring opportunity rather than shoot yourself.
As for debating.... No you're not you're picking issues with other people's opinions whilst not saying anything yourself on the topic...
Get off the fence and nail your flag to the mast in this issue.
Do I need to justify that statement for you ?
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Post by spik on Apr 30, 2018 20:58:46 GMT
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 21:23:25 GMT
You make some good points Spik
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Post by pantherlee on Apr 30, 2018 21:23:27 GMT
let's be civil gentlemen. This bit went over your head didn’t it Simon
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Post by spik on Apr 30, 2018 21:24:52 GMT
let's be civil gentlemen. This bit went over your head didn’t it Simon I'm talking to all.
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simonm
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Post by simonm on Apr 30, 2018 21:43:04 GMT
Isn't national sport xenophobia by definition.... Isn't it a form of discrimination by nationality ?
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 30, 2018 21:57:27 GMT
Isn't national sport xenophobia by definition.... Isn't it a form of discrimination by nationality ? Not exactly. There’s no discrimation because you’re competing against another nation.
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Post by shirtless on May 2, 2018 11:58:24 GMT
Do the iihf rules on this not make the thread a mute point.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on May 2, 2018 22:38:14 GMT
Do the iihf rules on this not make the thread a mute point. Yes. So does owning a British passport (regardless if you have ownership of another passport or not).
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