|
Post by MODSTUFF on Mar 7, 2017 9:27:32 GMT
No I dont. I was not there. But to suggest that not by commenting could be deemed homophobic is ridiculous. But the rest of the post is possible? If Simms comments on every single couple but then excluded a gay couple could be deemed as purposefully excluding a gay couple. If I walked in to my office and a man and woman were in there kissing. I may day, 'come on guys that's disgusting, get out' If 2 men were found kissing and I used the exact same phrase I'd be deemed a homophobe? Even though I'm not. That could be what's happening here?
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Mar 7, 2017 9:38:47 GMT
So you know beyond any doubt that he meant his comments in a homophobic way? Do you know that he wasn't treating the couple equally and including them? Does anybody? He does. He said which it was. Whatever tone it was said in,joke,serious or not....with Simmseys previous track record for causing controversy,he should have known full well to stay well away from certain topics on camera/microphone. He just doesn't learn.....but he may well wish he had this time !
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Mar 7, 2017 9:41:43 GMT
Panther's fan have more to worry about than Simmsey's tongue in cheek remarks, he's always saying something controversial or silly depending on which side of the fence your on.
|
|
|
Post by MODSTUFF on Mar 7, 2017 9:44:47 GMT
I'd love to see him removed from the EIHL in every capacity. But not for this.
If a gay couple in my workplace complained about my previous example I'd expect to be given the opportunity to explain myself. I'd explain that I was simply treating them equally and no offence was meant. I'd then apologise for any offence I may have caused. If I was then fired I'd be extremely disappointed.
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 10:31:07 GMT
For full disclosure, I won't be happy with anything short of Simms being sacked/resigning and will continue to push this via every avenue I can, hockey and non-hockey, until he is gone.
He is a despicable man and regardless of how 'nice' he may be in person, his sexist, misogynistic and now homophobic very public opinions have no place in ice hockey.
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Mar 7, 2017 10:34:30 GMT
For full disclosure, I won't be happy with anything short of Simms being sacked/resigning and will continue to push this via every avenue I can, hockey and non-hockey, until he is gone. He is a despicable man and regardless of how 'nice' he may be in person, his sexist, misogynistic and now homophobic very public opinions have no place in ice hockey. He's off your Christmas card list then.
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 11:08:41 GMT
He's off your Christmas card list then. I've been waiting a while for DS to slip up in a way that gets the attention of those outside of ice hockey and he has delivered by the bucketload. This is the chance to rid British ice hockey of a pox and move the sport forward, but on a far more important note, it's a chance to show a united front against unacceptable behaviour towards a persecuted minority.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Mar 7, 2017 11:28:24 GMT
Simms makes jokes about most couples on the kiss cam. I don't believe his comments were homophobic in any way. The fact that's he's willing to joke with a couple of men kissing surely normalises the relationship? Leaving the couple alone and not making comments could also be viewed as homophobic. If he said something like 'awww lovely couple' people could've said he was being sarcastic. I don't think he could've won in any scenario. Anything that was said could've been twisted because of who he is! If simms called a hetro couple disgusting, would there really have been any outrage? In my view all couples of any type should be treated equally and included. I believe this is what Simms was doing. Treating this couple as an ordinary couple and including them in the regular kiss cam Bants, Being offended by been called disgusting is what the couple could be offended by. But saying that Simms meant they were disgusting because they're gay is presumptuous. Nobody knows if he meant disgusting because they were gay or disgusting because he was having a laugh with a couple. He says it was the latter and plenty of people who were in the arena heard the tone it was said in and they also believe it was the latter. I don't like a lot of things that Simmsey does, but I'm with him on this one. I hate to say it but I agree with you here, I find it hard to believe that he would say something like this and mean it in the context that some people are taking it. I hate Simmsy more than anyone else, we all know how he acts, the Sky incident being a good example, but everyone knows the repercussions when you abuse people for their sexuality so why on earth would he say that and mean it to be disrespectful, in front of everyone in the arena, I don't believe that he meant it to be abusive because of this. People know that he likes to pi stake, like everyone who goes on that kiss cam they get made fun of, I think people need to realise this. As you say if it was a straight couple and it was said, it would have been taken as a joke so it shouldn't be different for a gay couple.
|
|
Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by Warren on Mar 7, 2017 12:18:11 GMT
Simms makes jokes about most couples on the kiss cam. I don't believe his comments were homophobic in any way. The fact that's he's willing to joke with a couple of men kissing surely normalises the relationship? Leaving the couple alone and not making comments could also be viewed as homophobic. If he said something like 'awww lovely couple' people could've said he was being sarcastic. I don't think he could've won in any scenario. Anything that was said could've been twisted because of who he is! If simms called a hetro couple disgusting, would there really have been any outrage? In my view all couples of any type should be treated equally and included. I believe this is what Simms was doing. Treating this couple as an ordinary couple and including them in the regular kiss cam Bants, Being offended by been called disgusting is what the couple could be offended by. But saying that Simms meant they were disgusting because they're gay is presumptuous. Nobody knows if he meant disgusting because they were gay or disgusting because he was having a laugh with a couple. He says it was the latter and plenty of people who were in the arena heard the tone it was said in and they also believe it was the latter. I don't like a lot of things that Simmsey does, but I'm with him on this one. I hate to say it but I agree with you here, I find it hard to believe that he would say something like this and mean it in the context that some people are taking it. I hate Simmsy more than anyone else, we all know how he acts, the Sky incident being a good example, but everyone knows the repercussions when you abuse people for their sexuality so why on earth would he say that and mean it to be disrespectful, in front of everyone in the arena, I don't believe that he meant it to be abusive because of this. People know that he likes to pi stake, like everyone who goes on that kiss cam they get made fun of, I think people need to realise this. As you say if it was a straight couple and it was said, it would have been taken as a joke so it shouldn't be different for a gay couple. I do agree partially, in that not making a quip would be just as bad as making one, but i think its both the remark itself and his general disregard that people have been offended (again true, some people are not looking at the offence but the offender for outrage). It also doesn't help with the timing, as said the NHL has made a massive effort with its #HockeyIsForEveryone campaign and this (and subsequent reactions) have not shown this league in the greatest of lights. Look at Andy Gray and his sacking from Sky Sports, and that was off camera not an arena full of people. Though I can't see anything happening to DS, his locker full of dirt on all the powers that be is going to save him I fear.
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 12:22:31 GMT
...Though I can't see anything happening to DS, his locker full of dirt on all the powers that be is going to save him I fear. Whatever hold he may have over people within the EIHL matters not a jott, this has (thankfully) moved beyond the EIHL and attempts from people such as Shaun Smith to sweep it under the carpet. Simms has no hold at all over me and I will not stop until I am satisfied with the outcome
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Mar 7, 2017 12:25:46 GMT
To see all the dirty washing out would be a sight to behold, I would throw Simmsey under the tram tracks to see that
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 12:26:18 GMT
Just a quick FYI, it wasn't a gay couple. It was two guys messing about.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Mar 7, 2017 12:30:17 GMT
Simms makes jokes about most couples on the kiss cam. I don't believe his comments were homophobic in any way. The fact that's he's willing to joke with a couple of men kissing surely normalises the relationship? Leaving the couple alone and not making comments could also be viewed as homophobic. If he said something like 'awww lovely couple' people could've said he was being sarcastic. I don't think he could've won in any scenario. Anything that was said could've been twisted because of who he is! If simms called a hetro couple disgusting, would there really have been any outrage? In my view all couples of any type should be treated equally and included. I believe this is what Simms was doing. Treating this couple as an ordinary couple and including them in the regular kiss cam Bants, Being offended by been called disgusting is what the couple could be offended by. But saying that Simms meant they were disgusting because they're gay is presumptuous. Nobody knows if he meant disgusting because they were gay or disgusting because he was having a laugh with a couple. He says it was the latter and plenty of people who were in the arena heard the tone it was said in and they also believe it was the latter. I don't like a lot of things that Simmsey does, but I'm with him on this one. I hate to say it but I agree with you here, I find it hard to believe that he would say something like this and mean it in the context that some people are taking it. I hate Simmsy more than anyone else, we all know how he acts, the Sky incident being a good example, but everyone knows the repercussions when you abuse people for their sexuality so why on earth would he say that and mean it to be disrespectful, in front of everyone in the arena, I don't believe that he meant it to be abusive because of this. People know that he likes to pi stake, like everyone who goes on that kiss cam they get made fun of, I think people need to realise this. As you say if it was a straight couple and it was said, it would have been taken as a joke so it shouldn't be different for a gay couple. It doesn't matter how he said it....he said it and he shouldn't have. He saw what he took to be two gay guys and his first thought involved the word "disgusting",now that must have been the first thought into his head.....why would that be if he didn't think of it that way. What if it had been two coloured people and he'd said "disgusting,security get them out of here",would that have been acceptable ? Is he racist too,well he's made enough comments on his Twitter in the past about Birmingham being taken over by ethnic groups to assume he is.
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 12:43:10 GMT
Just a quick FYI, it wasn't a gay couple. It was two guys messing about. That's matters not a bit. It's the comments that were made, not who they were specifically aimed at.
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 12:45:52 GMT
Just a quick FYI, it wasn't a gay couple. It was two guys messing about. That's matters not a bit. It's the comments that were made, not who they were specifically aimed at. Never said the comment were acceptable did I?
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 12:57:05 GMT
Never said the comment were acceptable did I? Two things; - As it's not relevant in the slightest why bring it up? - I'm cautious of people mentioning it because many of the apologists trying to dig Dave Simms out of his hole bring this point up. I'm not accusing you of being the latter but if you believe the former point why bring it up?
|
|
Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,408
|
Post by Yotes on Mar 7, 2017 13:09:06 GMT
What sort of comments does he make to other people who appear on this thing? Is that the usual sort of language?
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 13:12:28 GMT
Never said the comment were acceptable did I? Two things; - As it's not relevant in the slightest why bring it up? - I'm cautious of people mentioning it because many of the apologists trying to dig Dave Simms out of his hole bring this point up. I'm not accusing you of being the latter but if you believe the former point why bring it up? There are a number of people saying he abused a gay couple, this isn't strictly true, not directly anyway, so in that respect it is relevant. I was just trying to make sure that those people were informed, to set the scene if you like. Obviously the comments are unacceptable regardless as to who was on the receiving end of them.
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 13:13:13 GMT
What sort of comments does he make to other people who appear on this thing? Is that the usual sort of language? Yes. Not those exact words but he does often have a dig at people
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Mar 7, 2017 13:58:23 GMT
What sort of comments does he make to other people who appear on this thing? Is that the usual sort of language? Yes. Not those exact words but he does often have a dig at people So he doesn't normally say "disgusting" or "get them out of here" then ? Thought not. As for them just being two guys having a laugh....Simmsey didn't know that at the time. So that destroys that argument !
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 14:01:25 GMT
Yes. Not those exact words but he does often have a dig at people So he doesn't normally say "disgusting" or "get them out of here" then ? Thought not. As for them just being two guys having a laugh....Simmsey didn't know that at the time. So that destroys that argument ! I was there, he did know that. And yes he has often said words to that effect. Try again.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Mar 7, 2017 14:24:33 GMT
So he doesn't normally say "disgusting" or "get them out of here" then ? Thought not. As for them just being two guys having a laugh....Simmsey didn't know that at the time. So that destroys that argument ! I was there, he did know that. And yes he has often said words to that effect. Try again. He would have no idea. Any more than he would know if a couple were husband and wife or brother and sister.
|
|
|
Post by tootootrain on Mar 7, 2017 14:38:52 GMT
He would have no idea. Any more than he would know if a couple were husband and wife or brother and sister. Can I just reiterate before you can drawn off the salient point by 'Panthersdave' (who is doing a sterling job of muddying the waters) that it doesn't matter what the sexuality of the two men may be, it's the comments Dave Simms made and the impact it could have on others that is the issue.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
|
Post by iginla on Mar 7, 2017 14:46:47 GMT
He would have no idea. Any more than he would know if a couple were husband and wife or brother and sister. Can I just reiterate before you can drawn off the salient point by 'Panthersdave' (who is doing a sterling job of muddying the waters) that it doesn't matter what the sexuality of the two men may be, it's the comments Dave Simms made and the impact it could have on others that is the issue. I agree entirely. Simmsey deserves to lose his job,it's not the first time he's done it and it still even now,wont be the last time if he stays where he is. The guy is an embarrassment to both the Steelers and the league.
|
|
|
Post by panthersdave on Mar 7, 2017 14:50:07 GMT
He would have no idea. Any more than he would know if a couple were husband and wife or brother and sister. Can I just reiterate before you can drawn off the salient point by 'Panthersdave' (who is doing a sterling job of muddying the waters) that it doesn't matter what the sexuality of the two men may be, it's the comments Dave Simms made and the impact it could have on others that is the issue. Wasn't my intention to muddy the waters and you are absolutely right. I think the bigger problem here is that Simms has form and never learns from it. Just to reiterate, me pointing out the couple concerned was in no way to make light of it, merely to clarify the situation to others previously who claimed it was an attack on a gay couple. That is misinformation, pure and simple. If that isn't clear then I cannot do any more.
|
|