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Post by pantherlee on Feb 5, 2017 15:41:03 GMT
Just thinking about the amount of criticism (plenty of it justified) that has come the way of Lachowicz and Lee the last couple of seasons and wondering whether its just as simple as them not performing and a decline in their ability.
I think its been quite clear that the overall standard of teams and the players that are being attracted to the EIHL is growing year after year and I'm wondering if its more of a case that players like Lacho and Lee can't cope with the growing standard of players they are now facing because they are not the only ones.
If you also look at players like Craig Peacock, Mark Garside, Russ Cowley, Jonathan Boxill. All of these players points production has significantly decreased the past 4 years or so. Even Robert Dowd who is definitely one of the better brits around is scoring roughly 0.7 PPG now compared 2011-2013 when he was scoring well over 1 PPG and that was when he was a young player so you would think that number would keep going up rather than coming down
Just thinking that maybe people are expecting too much from them considering the standard they are now up against. I know the argument could be made that they shouldn't be kept at the club if they're not good enough but quality brits don't exactly grow on trees so what can you do otherwise or do you just accept that they may just have to play a more limited role.
Any thoughts?
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Feb 5, 2017 16:05:29 GMT
The standard of the league has definitely increased although I think the fact many of the Brits are being left behind is a sad indictment of the system we unfortunate have little choice but to have in place. In any other walk of life they'd be out of a job, if my production had dropped by the degree Lacho's has then d be gone but the limited amount of British talent coupled with a restriction on imports gives us very few options. I'd say the question should be more can they not keep up with the increasing standard or do they know they don't have to?
Lachowicz knows Clarke is on his last legs and there are very few prospects in waiting. Hardly creates an environment where these guys feel they need to bust a gut to keep their place. Of course I could be completely wrong, for all I know they never stop working on their game, you've raised an interesting point though.
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Post by PantherB on Feb 5, 2017 16:30:21 GMT
Neither Lachowicz or Lee have great confidence.
Lachowicz has seemed lost since Francis departed and Lee hasn't been the same since O'Marra took his head off a couple years ago.
We've seen them prove they have what it takes to play at EIHL level and be on a decent line/pairing, yet it's just tailed off where neither appear to provide much value. People say Lachowicz is a great PK guy, yeah he is good but you don't have to be a genius to hold the puck and dump it. Brown has been doing great on the PK recently, holding it in the offensive zone against the boards.
If there were lot of EIHL ready Brits coming from EPL or Juniors then without a doubt at least Lee would get the bullet. Lachowicz, although infuriatingly different to a couple years ago.. I still feel he could make a resurgence depending on who he's playing with and how Corey uses him. I'd hope we make attempts at bringing either Jack Prince in over the off season, or try and tempt Sam Duggan back to British shores after his time in the Swedish Juniors. They're similar kind of guys, gritty but with some good offensive quality. Could help us save money on bringing in an import grinder and instead, bring in another import playmaker or sniper.
We can't have too many Brits, if a place can't be found for them, set a link up with Peterborough in the EPL and ship them off there for a bit.
The only way Brits seem to make it in the EIHL nowadays is if teams give them a chance from when they're young, which doesn't happen that often or they jump ship and play in North America or Scandinavia for their Juniors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 16:37:11 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 5, 2017 16:46:48 GMT
Farmer is a genuine import quality Brit and getting better and better and Swindlehurst will be genuine import quality Brit and we let him go (but staggeringly kept Lee and Oakford...)
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 5, 2017 16:51:17 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? That's down to the Brits who are coming through but dumb the league down to EPL level just to bring on Brits and we have already seen with the EPL where that goes. |
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Feb 5, 2017 16:51:18 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? It wouldn't be a shock no....... I would scrap the limit tomorrow. When Brits like Lacho and Lee are getting paid more than half of the imports,that tells you what should happen to the import limit ! The Brits bring the quality of the league down,because £ for £ you get a far better quality player for the same money if you sign an import instead of a Brit. There is only one stand out Brit in the EIHL these days and that's Oconnor,but even he isn't worth the silly money he gets paid ! |
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Post by PantherB on Feb 5, 2017 16:52:17 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? I'd hope once IHUK/EPL/SNL have gotten their stuff together and hopefully formed this 'EIHL2', there'll be a clear pathway. Juniors-EIHL2-EIHL. If that happens I'd hope Import Limit is reduced slowly down to 11 or 10. I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. I love watching the big name Canadians and Americans, Europeans play over here but there could possibly be over 170 imports in the league next season out of a possible 264 players which isn't particularly nice to see. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Feb 5, 2017 16:57:43 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? I'd hope once IHUK/EPL/SNL have gotten their stuff together and hopefully formed this 'EIHL2', there'll be a clear pathway. Juniors-EIHL2-EIHL. If that happens I'd hope Import Limit is reduced slowly down to 11 or 10. I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. I love watching the big name Canadians and Americans, Europeans play over here but there could possibly be over 170 imports in the league next season out of a possible 264 players which isn't particularly nice to see. Drop back down to 11 or 10 imports again and you won't be seeing the Continental Cup being won by a British team again though. Because 15/16 imports and the CHL is why we won it ! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 17:04:26 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. It would make it easier for these teams though wouldn't it? As you could get cheaper European players of comparable or even greater ability for a lot less than the British players they currently have. |
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Post by PantherB on Feb 5, 2017 17:06:14 GMT
I'd hope once IHUK/EPL/SNL have gotten their stuff together and hopefully formed this 'EIHL2', there'll be a clear pathway. Juniors-EIHL2-EIHL. If that happens I'd hope Import Limit is reduced slowly down to 11 or 10. I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. I love watching the big name Canadians and Americans, Europeans play over here but there could possibly be over 170 imports in the league next season out of a possible 264 players which isn't particularly nice to see. Drop back down to 11 or 10 imports again and you won't be seeing the Continental Cup being won by a British team again though. Because 15/16 imports and the CHL is why we won it ! Could be worth the sacrifice in the long run though, might mean a lacklustre few seasons in Europe but if you get a few Farmer/Swindlehurst/O'Connor type guys coming through the system who are better than some imports, we'd be making good progress. I'd hope it would help Team GB grow further and rise in the standings too. There's more and more attention on Basketball and American Football being shown by their respective leagues in America and the NHL continuing to look towards Europe and Asia to get more players. Grow the sport so if we show that we want GB to progress, enhance our reputation then we could be on the receiving end of some funding, exhibition games, just more general awareness for the sport which can only help. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 17:06:59 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? It wouldn't be a shock no....... I would scrap the limit tomorrow. When Brits like Lacho and Lee are getting paid more than half of the imports,that tells you what should happen to the import limit ! The Brits bring the quality of the league down,because £ for £ you get a far better quality player for the same money if you sign an import instead of a Brit. There is only one stand out Brit in the EIHL these days and that's Oconnor,but even he isn't worth the silly money he gets paid ! Agree with this, I'd drop the limit tomorrow aswell if into was up to me. Disagree on O'Connor though, I think he's an overrated show pony. To me Farmer is the premier Brit in the EIHL. |
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Post by pingchowchi on Feb 5, 2017 18:06:12 GMT
It wouldn't suprise me if the standard of the imports drop a bit next year, given the weakness of the pound now.
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Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
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Post by Shorty on Feb 5, 2017 23:00:12 GMT
We only iced 13 imports in each of the games in the finals. Unless you want to count Pacl, who didnt get on at all.
We have sixteen registered. Waugh did not play in any, and either Schultz or Nikiforuk didnt play.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Feb 5, 2017 23:14:51 GMT
Sheffield have added two Brits to their roster this season, both came through the Sheffield 'system'(as did Brad Day) and while neither have played regularly, both are considered as potential for the future. Is it just luck on Sheffield's part that they find these players, or is there a positive feeder system in place
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 6, 2017 0:47:53 GMT
Sheffield have added two Brits to their roster this season, both came through the Sheffield 'system'(as did Brad Day) and while neither have played regularly, both are considered as potential for the future. Is it just luck on Sheffield's part that they find these players, or is there a positive feeder system in place A far superior youth system in Sheffield and one is the son of a well respected ex player helps too. |
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Feb 6, 2017 7:15:16 GMT
Would it be a shock if the import limit was scrapped in the next 3-5 years? I'd hope once IHUK/EPL/SNL have gotten their stuff together and hopefully formed this 'EIHL2', there'll be a clear pathway. Juniors-EIHL2-EIHL. If that happens I'd hope Import Limit is reduced slowly down to 11 or 10. I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. I love watching the big name Canadians and Americans, Europeans play over here but there could possibly be over 170 imports in the league next season out of a possible 264 players which isn't particularly nice to see. The number of imports is irrelevant, it all comes down to money. You can just as easily go tits up with an import limit of five, ask Manchester. The likes of MK and Edinburgh surviving depends on them only spending what they can afford and the EIHL ensuring that the league standard doesn't go above the point where these teams are competitive. You can achieve both of these points with unlimited Canadians if you wish. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Feb 6, 2017 9:07:51 GMT
I'd hope once IHUK/EPL/SNL have gotten their stuff together and hopefully formed this 'EIHL2', there'll be a clear pathway. Juniors-EIHL2-EIHL. If that happens I'd hope Import Limit is reduced slowly down to 11 or 10. I can't see Guildford, Milton Keynes, Dundee or Caps surviving for too much longer if the import limit remains as it is or increases. We need a sustainable league and keeping 14 Imports+ for the foreseeable future will likely only damage the sustainability. I love watching the big name Canadians and Americans, Europeans play over here but there could possibly be over 170 imports in the league next season out of a possible 264 players which isn't particularly nice to see. The number of imports is irrelevant, it all comes down to money. You can just as easily go tits up with an import limit of five, ask Manchester. The likes of MK and Edinburgh surviving depends on them only spending what they can afford and the EIHL ensuring that the league standard doesn't go above the point where these teams are competitive. You can achieve both of these points with unlimited Canadians if you wish. Agreed. I have never quite understood why Panthers almost went bust in the old arena days,when they were playing in front of a packed house every night but only had about 3 imports and all the rest were Brits. Unless of course somebody was cooking the books ! |
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Feb 6, 2017 9:09:17 GMT
Sheffield have added two Brits to their roster this season, both came through the Sheffield 'system'(as did Brad Day) and while neither have played regularly, both are considered as potential for the future. Is it just luck on Sheffield's part that they find these players, or is there a positive feeder system in place A far superior youth system in Sheffield and one is the son of a well respected ex player helps too. so why haven't Panthers also a similar set up. Going back to when I started watching, there was as unending supply of talent (some good, some not so good) from the Nottingham junior ranks into the senior team. And then...it stopped. Is it purely down to money ? That Nottingham bred players think that the Panthers is a quick way to earn good money and so over value themselves ? Is the Nottingham coaching set up not affiliated to the Panthers. Or are the players not good enough and the standard in the EIHL too big a step? |
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Feb 6, 2017 9:15:11 GMT
The number of imports is irrelevant, it all comes down to money. You can just as easily go tits up with an import limit of five, ask Manchester. The likes of MK and Edinburgh surviving depends on them only spending what they can afford and the EIHL ensuring that the league standard doesn't go above the point where these teams are competitive. You can achieve both of these points with unlimited Canadians if you wish. Agreed. I have never quite understood why Panthers almost went bust in the old arena days,when they were playing in front of a packed house every night but only had about 3 imports and all the rest were Brits. Unless of course somebody was cooking the books ! I thought that in the 'Rink' days the Ice Stadium took the gate money, and Panthers only got receipts for a few games per season, so they were almost totally reliant on Sponsorship. Then for season 96/97 the league went totally imports (Superleague), and before the start of the following season the Club went into financial difficulties, thankfully Mr Black stepped in for which he has my eternal thanks and support. |
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 6, 2017 9:31:07 GMT
A far superior youth system in Sheffield and one is the son of a well respected ex player helps too. so why haven't Panthers also a similar set up. Going back to when I started watching, there was as unending supply of talent (some good, some not so good) from the Nottingham junior ranks into the senior team. And then...it stopped. Is it purely down to money ? That Nottingham bred players think that the Panthers is a quick way to earn good money and so over value themselves ? Is the Nottingham coaching set up not affiliated to the Panthers. Or are the players not good enough and the standard in the EIHL too big a step? The Sheffield youth system isn't a Steelers set up, it's just far superior to the Nottingham one. The Steelers have two apprentices which we don't but then perhaps the Sheffield system is better suited for this. |
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Feb 6, 2017 9:36:56 GMT
Steelers main Brits did not come through their youth system though.
O'Connor is already on record as saying he may look at Europe again at the end of the season, and if Kirk or Shudra start to develop, then they will as well.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Feb 6, 2017 10:13:19 GMT
Steelers main Brits did not come through their youth system though. O'Connor is already on record as saying he may look at Europe again at the end of the season, and if Kirk or Shudra start to develop, then they will as well. Most of the Brit youth system is very poor and that isn't going to change anytime soon. The better players have to look to other better paid leagues as careers are short and if they don't have ambition they wouldn't have what it takes anyway. Having a *GOOD* quality healthy league woukd bring more kids onto the ice. Trying to attract kids into the sport to develop the league is arse about face in my eyes. |
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doug
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by doug on Feb 7, 2017 11:22:34 GMT
It wouldn't be a shock no....... I would scrap the limit tomorrow. When Brits like Lacho and Lee are getting paid more than half of the imports,that tells you what should happen to the import limit ! The Brits bring the quality of the league down,because £ for £ you get a far better quality player for the same money if you sign an import instead of a Brit. There is only one stand out Brit in the EIHL these days and that's Oconnor,but even he isn't worth the silly money he gets paid ! Agree with this, I'd drop the limit tomorrow aswell if into was up to me. Disagree on O'Connor though, I think he's an overrated show pony. To me Farmer is the premier Brit in the EIHL. I like Farmer and was unhappy when he left Steelers but, when he's on song, and I know Panther's fans don't like him, Dowd is as good as most imports in this league. Also, if you remember, you all hated Farmer until he joined you. |
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Post by wgray on Feb 7, 2017 11:33:36 GMT
Agree with this, I'd drop the limit tomorrow aswell if into was up to me. Disagree on O'Connor though, I think he's an overrated show pony. To me Farmer is the premier Brit in the EIHL. I like Farmer and was unhappy when he left Steelers but, when he's on song, and I know Panther's fans don't like him, Dowd is as good as most imports in this league. Also, if you remember, you all hated Farmer until he joined you. there's always going to be biased opinions when comparing players on your team to another, Dowd is a top player on his day. When looking at it I'd be overjoyed if we signed Dowd or O'Connor for that matter, but whilst they play for another team, especially Sheffield, it makes you appreciate them less |
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