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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 10:59:53 GMT
Doesn't Corey have to take some responsibility here? He knows them both from last year so unless it's an attitude that whoever it is has developed this year why did he re-sign them? Or was Shultz re-signed by someone else as a franchise player? He's good but he ain't that good.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 28, 2017 11:02:39 GMT
Publicly outing one while casting aspersions on the other in the press seems a strange thing for Neilson to do. So long as teams only sign to the import limit in this league this has and will always happen. Put a rocket under a player and bench him and the team suffers too especially if you play most of the season short benched anyway and the less committed imports know this from day one.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 28, 2017 11:03:40 GMT
Or was Shultz re-signed by someone else as a franchise player? He's good but he ain't that good. Playing half a season every year makes him pretty useless. He is excellent when he plays but he just doesn't play enough.
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Post by Mark Mac on Jan 28, 2017 11:37:52 GMT
I will cross Schultz off my Xmas card list then, can not see him returning next season The fact that he seems to spend the majority of his time off the ice should be reason enough to not waste a second thinking about re-signing him.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 28, 2017 11:49:51 GMT
Publicly outing one while casting aspersions on the other in the press seems a strange thing for Neilson to do. So long as teams only sign to the import limit in this league this has and will always happen. Put a rocket under a player and bench him and the team suffers too especially if you play most of the season short benched anyway and the less committed imports know this from day one. And that's why we should sign spares from the start and make them fight for a place in the team !
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 28, 2017 12:14:37 GMT
What a stupid non statement to make. Why say this to the press and not name the player? What is he hoping to achieve? Either back the player concerned or sack them. This is how you loose the trust of the dressing room.
No motivation to rush back into the team as there are no spares so to chance to be dropped.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 28, 2017 12:49:31 GMT
Publicly outing one while casting aspersions on the other in the press seems a strange thing for Neilson to do. So long as teams only sign to the import limit in this league this has and will always happen. Put a rocket under a player and bench him and the team suffers too especially if you play most of the season short benched anyway and the less committed imports know this from day one. And that's why we should sign spares from the start and make them fight for a place in the team ! *IF* there was semi decent Brits in the lower leagues to draft in to make a point with it would help but there aren't. The eutopia is that one day there will be but that isn't going to happen for a very long time if ever and you are not going to get 5000+ gates to watch EPL standard part time rec players especially now that we have ended the famous CN bringing on the Brirs phase. Shultz is an excellent game changer but the bottom line is he will be out for a lot of games every season and I love Lawrence and on his day he is brilliant in this league but there was a reason that both Sheffield and Coventry parted ways with him last season.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 14:47:19 GMT
Spang should be another one he has a stern talking to with his constant search for a quick dive and embellishment. Given the amount of ice time he's logging and the fact he's consistently our best player he'd be the last person I gave a talking to. Our lack of actual defencemen over recent months will provide the answer in his large amounts of ice time, but what I originally said wasn't saying he was a crap player. I don't mind him, just despise his constant attempts to dive at the slightest touch.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 14:51:01 GMT
Lawrence strolls up to the arena before games puffing away on cigarettes... What coach thinks it's acceptable for a PROFESSIONAL sportsman to smoke? Buy him some nicorette and tell him to stop or get lost. If you want a calm Lawrence whose ready to play then you'll allow him to smoke, everyone knows he's pretty much one of a kind and has the nickname 'loon' so I'd assume the smoking is his way of keeping his head level and calm. Isn't something he's just picked up recently either, and smoking is something a lot of players will do from time to time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 14:59:56 GMT
Given the amount of ice time he's logging and the fact he's consistently our best player he'd be the last person I gave a talking to. Our lack of actual defencemen over recent months will provide the answer in his large amounts of ice time, but what I originally said wasn't saying he was a crap player. I don't mind him, just despise his constant attempts to dive at the slightest touch. We've been short of defenceman? I'm not having that. Next you'll be telling me the sky is blue. As a point of interest did you take any particular umbridge with players such as Fox or Levers? They weren't shy about hitting the ice when required.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2017 15:05:53 GMT
What coach thinks it's acceptable for a PROFESSIONAL sportsman to smoke? Buy him some nicorette and tell him to stop or get lost. If you want a calm Lawrence whose ready to play then you'll allow him to smoke, everyone knows he's pretty much one of a kind and has the nickname 'loon' so I'd assume the smoking is his way of keeping his head level and calm. Isn't something he's just picked up recently either, and smoking is something a lot of players will do from time to time. If that's true, he depends on cigarettes to keep himself in check, as a professional athlete, then he should not be icing at this level. No arguments. Every player can be excused a cigar after a championship win or even a beer to celebrate the end of a double header weekend. Preparing for games by walking up to the arena chain-smoking is something frowned upon in pond hockey!
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Post by richard1969 on Jan 28, 2017 17:19:43 GMT
Not posted for a while but have followed the forum despite that. This interview from Corey prompted me to post again
Forget about protecting the player who Corey feels let him down by leaving it open to debate over two names
What about the other "innocent" player who is besmirched by being dragged into this. If I was that player I would be livid to have my name brought into disrepute. Not good.
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jan 28, 2017 17:57:21 GMT
So does Lawrence go "missing" in games, as often as Schultz does not play in them?
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 18:17:06 GMT
Our lack of actual defencemen over recent months will provide the answer in his large amounts of ice time, but what I originally said wasn't saying he was a crap player. I don't mind him, just despise his constant attempts to dive at the slightest touch. We've been short of defenceman? I'm not having that. Next you'll be telling me the sky is blue. As a point of interest did you take any particular umbridge with players such as Fox or Levers? They weren't shy about hitting the ice when required. MacMillan and Lindhagen aren't natural defencemen. Lee is half a defenceman and Sertich is average. We lost Oakford and Kudroc, which neither were replaced. We've had no Defence for a long time! There's a difference though, they didn't seem to milk it half as much as Spang does. Spang will get the slightest of clips from a stick onto his glove and he'll shake his hand and probably turn the puck over, all because he's looking for a penalty. Same when there's a stick near his legs, he'll make it seem like someone smashed his knee cap The officials have Spang's number, he does it so much they just won't call anything anymore and just look at him as if he's a whining child. If he stops the dives, I'll hold him in higher regard but when we complain about Schultz not having the bottle to play because of a knock and having little 'warrior' in him, it's difficult to be happy with Spang being a pretender and looking like an idiot half the time. Not even players as infuriating as Noble dive like Spang does.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 18:22:27 GMT
If you want a calm Lawrence whose ready to play then you'll allow him to smoke, everyone knows he's pretty much one of a kind and has the nickname 'loon' so I'd assume the smoking is his way of keeping his head level and calm. Isn't something he's just picked up recently either, and smoking is something a lot of players will do from time to time. If that's true, he depends on cigarettes to keep himself in check, as a professional athlete, then he should not be icing at this level. No arguments. Every player can be excused a cigar after a championship win or even a beer to celebrate the end of a double header weekend. Preparing for games by walking up to the arena chain-smoking is something frowned upon in pond hockey! There's not many alternatives that don't include alcohol and drugs. I've not seen a single teammate of Lawrence's, past or present, say anything else but he's essentially crazy. Whilst smoking is frowned upon in sport, and in general, we've got to give Lawrence the benefit of the doubt here if it is helping him.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 28, 2017 19:12:21 GMT
Not posted for a while but have followed the forum despite that. This interview from Corey prompted me to post again Forget about protecting the player who Corey feels let him down by leaving it open to debate over two names What about the other "innocent" player who is besmirched by being dragged into this. If I was that player I would be livid to have my name brought into disrepute. Not good. Stupid thought I know, but maybe it's Coreys way of calling them both out whilst not being too obvious. They will both know in their own minds if it's them or not. I've always been a fan of Lawerence, however stories of him being hammered in the early hours on the day they flew to Ritten soon leave you with a sour taste. Regardless of the results on the ice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2017 19:14:24 GMT
We've been short of defenceman? I'm not having that. Next you'll be telling me the sky is blue. As a point of interest did you take any particular umbridge with players such as Fox or Levers? They weren't shy about hitting the ice when required. MacMillan and Lindhagen aren't natural defencemen. Lee is half a defenceman and Sertich is average. We lost Oakford and Kudroc, which neither were replaced. We've had no Defence for a long time! There's a difference though, they didn't seem to milk it half as much as Spang does. Spang will get the slightest of clips from a stick onto his glove and he'll shake his hand and probably turn the puck over, all because he's looking for a penalty. Same when there's a stick near his legs, he'll make it seem like someone smashed his knee cap The officials have Spang's number, he does it so much they just won't call anything anymore and just look at him as if he's a whining child. If he stops the dives, I'll hold him in higher regard but when we complain about Schultz not having the bottle to play because of a knock and having little 'warrior' in him, it's difficult to be happy with Spang being a pretender and looking like an idiot half the time. Not even players as infuriating as Noble dive like Spang does. OK as you you replied to my first paragraph you may need this: click here. I'm fully aware of why Spang is on the ice so much. I can't say I've noticed Spang 'diving' though, saw he jawing at Darnell quite a bit on Wednesday but thought he had a genuine gripe with a few of the non-calls against him in that game.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2017 19:25:46 GMT
If that's true, he depends on cigarettes to keep himself in check, as a professional athlete, then he should not be icing at this level. No arguments. Every player can be excused a cigar after a championship win or even a beer to celebrate the end of a double header weekend. Preparing for games by walking up to the arena chain-smoking is something frowned upon in pond hockey! There's not many alternatives that don't include alcohol and drugs. I've not seen a single teammate of Lawrence's, past or present, say anything else but he's essentially crazy. Whilst smoking is frowned upon in sport, and in general, we've got to give Lawrence the benefit of the doubt here if it is helping him. Not really. Lawrence isn't Sidney Crosby and winning games on his own. He has the odd good game, he makes a few plays and occasionally scores. It's very rare to see him play a good 3 periods, even when he's at his best. Could he be replaced for someone who plays hard every game, makes plays and scores? Yes, undoubtedly. Jade Galbraith was twice the talent of Lawrence and eventually Corey accepted he couldn't tame him... and we were better without him. Jade's direct replacement was Jordan Fox. How did that turn out? Any person who is paid to perform (probably by your money you spend on tickets, mercy etc.) and they can't give up the booze and cigarettes, doesn't deserve to play.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 28, 2017 19:34:27 GMT
I can't say I've noticed Spang 'diving' though Really? He's known as Divin' Dan where I sit.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 19:37:02 GMT
There's not many alternatives that don't include alcohol and drugs. I've not seen a single teammate of Lawrence's, past or present, say anything else but he's essentially crazy. Whilst smoking is frowned upon in sport, and in general, we've got to give Lawrence the benefit of the doubt here if it is helping him. Not really. Lawrence isn't Sidney Crosby and winning games on his own. He has the odd good game, he makes a few plays and occasionally scores. It's very rare to see him play a good 3 periods, even when he's at his best. Could he be replaced for someone who plays hard every game, makes plays and scores? Yes, undoubtedly. Jade Galbraith was twice the talent of Lawrence and eventually Corey accepted he couldn't tame him... and we were better without him. Jade's direct replacement was Jordan Fox. How did that turn out? Any person who is paid to perform (probably by your money you spend on tickets, mercy etc.) and they can't give up the booze and cigarettes, doesn't deserve to play. Never know what battles players are fighting off the ice though, gotta keep an open mind about those things. I agree fully though regarding Lawrence not being anything outstanding and just toddles along with a goal or an assist in most games, though not visibly earned. There's potentially better choices out there for the entire team, we could've had Jamie Rivers season before last but that didn't work out and so things changed quickly and we ended up with who we ended up with. Lawrence has the potential, but for whatever reason, be it coaching or a personal stuggle, he always seems to dwindle out pretty quickly and regains the marmite style opinion as seen in his first season with us. Fox, in his day would have easily gotten a place on any of the top teams here, so whilst Galbraith was a special kind of player, we knew Fox would bring a lot to the table.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2017 20:01:51 GMT
Not really. Lawrence isn't Sidney Crosby and winning games on his own. He has the odd good game, he makes a few plays and occasionally scores. It's very rare to see him play a good 3 periods, even when he's at his best. Could he be replaced for someone who plays hard every game, makes plays and scores? Yes, undoubtedly. Jade Galbraith was twice the talent of Lawrence and eventually Corey accepted he couldn't tame him... and we were better without him. Jade's direct replacement was Jordan Fox. How did that turn out? Any person who is paid to perform (probably by your money you spend on tickets, mercy etc.) and they can't give up the booze and cigarettes, doesn't deserve to play. Never know what battles players are fighting off the ice though, gotta keep an open mind about those things. I agree fully though regarding Lawrence not being anything outstanding and just toddles along with a goal or an assist in most games, though not visibly earned. There's potentially better choices out there for the entire team, we could've had Jamie Rivers season before last but that didn't work out and so things changed quickly and we ended up with who we ended up with. Lawrence has the potential, but for whatever reason, be it coaching or a personal stuggle, he always seems to dwindle out pretty quickly and regains the marmite style opinion as seen in his first season with us. Fox, in his day would have easily gotten a place on any of the top teams here, so whilst Galbraith was a special kind of player, we knew Fox would bring a lot to the table. We can never know what personal battle people face, that's a given. The problem arises when help is being offered but it's not being accepted... and unfortunately, professional sports moves on regardless of personal struggles. Neilson has brought over Lawrence's two best mates - IMO kept one of those mates on when he should have been gassed in September if you went by performances alone, but he's a different story. Corey also seems to be turning a blind eye to his smoking/ drinking. Whatever the personal reason behind doing both, it has an undoubted effect on an athletes performance. Corey always gives Lawrence a good line to play on. Gives him plenty of PP and never asks him to go on the PK. What do we have in return?... We're 5th in the league (at time of writing we're 3-0 down in Cardiff). We won the CC but Larry didn't contribute much there (2+0 in 6 games). 12+14 in 25 league games (26 games if you include Cardiff tonight) making him EIHLs 30th top point scorer. He's sat out of 7 league games so far (32 in total). It's not a great return for the investment put into him. He was binned off quickly by both Coventry and Sheffield last season who obviously didn't much care for his personal issues.
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Post by PantherB on Jan 28, 2017 20:23:32 GMT
Never know what battles players are fighting off the ice though, gotta keep an open mind about those things. I agree fully though regarding Lawrence not being anything outstanding and just toddles along with a goal or an assist in most games, though not visibly earned. There's potentially better choices out there for the entire team, we could've had Jamie Rivers season before last but that didn't work out and so things changed quickly and we ended up with who we ended up with. Lawrence has the potential, but for whatever reason, be it coaching or a personal stuggle, he always seems to dwindle out pretty quickly and regains the marmite style opinion as seen in his first season with us. Fox, in his day would have easily gotten a place on any of the top teams here, so whilst Galbraith was a special kind of player, we knew Fox would bring a lot to the table. We can never know what personal battle people face, that's a given. The problem arises when help is being offered but it's not being accepted... and unfortunately, professional sports moves on regardless of personal struggles. Neilson has brought over Lawrence's two best mates - IMO kept one of those mates on when he should have been gassed in September if you went by performances alone, but he's a different story. Corey also seems to be turning a blind eye to his smoking/ drinking. Whatever the personal reason behind doing both, it has an undoubted effect on an athletes performance. Corey always gives Lawrence a good line to play on. Gives him plenty of PP and never asks him to go on the PK. What do we have in return?... We're 5th in the league (at time of writing we're 3-0 down in Cardiff). We won the CC but Larry didn't contribute much there (2+0 in 6 games). 12+14 in 25 league games (26 games if you include Cardiff tonight) making him EIHLs 30th top point scorer. He's sat out of 7 league games so far (32 in total). It's not a great return for the investment put into him. He was binned off quickly by both Coventry and Sheffield last season who obviously didn't much care for his personal issues. Corey knows the League well enough to know that after games, especially triple header weekend games which see good results, players will blow off some steam and get wasted and enjoy themselves. Corey has a strong relationship with Lawrence and so will always find him a spot on a high line but it's difficult because he's shown in the past that he's got a deadly shot and could be a real asset to our PP but he's so inconsistent it's essentially a lottery draw as to which Lawrence will turn up unfortunately. I do think that his current production is quite good considering our somewhat average team and Lawrence's injury's & inconsistency, it's surprising actually because how he plays you'd expect him to be floating around the bottom end of point scoring forwards on our team. Corey only seems to gas the bad apples or the ones who don't gel with the team on a personal level, Grimaldi and Hardy were allegedly bad apples in the dressing room (Grimaldi is an obvious one) and I'd assume Capraro was also one who didn't particularly mix well with the team as he did put up okay numbers, didn't play particularly well and didn't seem too integrated with the team when I saw him at various events. Robinson got gassed for his attitude issues, and others just seemed to be so averagely boring that gassing them was the only option. Yet he really loves Lawrence on a personal level, knows his issues and his inconsistency yet he salvaged him as scraps from our two main rivals and re-signed him, but I suppose the assumption Janssen would be returning so they could continue their forecheking combo was held as a strong reason for re-signing him. You could say that Corey coming straight out of playing at a relatively early age for retirement and coaching straight off could be a reason he likes to hold on to people he gets on with, still having that player mentality, players like being around those who bring joy to the lockeroom and can get on with anybody and hate being on teams with bad apples regardless of how they play.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 28, 2017 20:25:14 GMT
Lawrence does happen to be our top points scorer though.....despite playing 7 or 8 games less than most of the other players. 😳
There's a few who should be dumped before him !
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 28, 2017 20:37:14 GMT
What I'm trying to get across with Lawrence is that he is key component to an underperforming team... same as he was in his last full season with us.
Larry scores at an OK rate, but only when he's the focus of the team. At Sheffield and Coventry he wasn't the coach favourite and got gassed sharpish. He's never going to be a 'bad apple' in a team built around him here.
Neilson's gripe in the Post article was about attitude and I think he may have put Lawrence's name in there for a reason (although I think the main focus was Schultz).
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jan 28, 2017 20:43:32 GMT
It was definitely Schultz that Corey was referring to in the Post article. My guess is that he put Lawrence in the same scenario because he's been playing but not really performing very well in the league since he came back from his concussion injury and Corey used it to try wind Larry up.
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