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Post by PantherG on Jan 5, 2016 18:36:45 GMT
He gets bums on seats and money in the pot - I do however feel this would happen regardless of who was the GM we've got a big fan base and the fixtures or returning players draw the crowd He's set in his ways and doesn't see to keep up with the times and try's to be funny but it's just awkwardly embarrassing. I'd like to see a new GM in with new ideas to improve the highlights, push forward social media with better segments and a webcast. We didn't have a big fanbase when GM entered the hotseat though. If it was so easy why don't all clubs see the same success? Actually there has always been a big fan base in Nottingam. It's one of those places that's a hockey town/city, like Kirkcaldy and Durham (rip) the old rink was sold out and there was a waiting list to get seats. Granted it's taken time to grow the crowds in the NIC but in line with most other clubs we have been growing our fanbase. In general the game has grown, not just in Notts but in general across the EIHL. We are fortunate enough to see the results and I think this is part is due to Corey, last season apart the teams have always been exciting to watch and trophies collected every season. I've never met GM in person, but I have been told some concernjng things from a sponsor about how he conducts himself and I know that he was really rude to some friends who had supported the Panthers when they started back in Notts. Since then and because of his attitude they' vowed never to set foot back in the Arena. These are people who travelled all over supporting the team when the likes of Murrayfield, Durham and Fife were the big guns and Notts struggled. All in all there has been quite a turn over at Braehead with each appointment seeing improvements. I personally think now is the time for a change, bring in someone with a different approach, more social media savvy and someone the players and coaches can work with in harmony. I really see noI reason why we can't be hitting crowds of 6500+++ each week.
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Post by cjmatt42 on Jan 5, 2016 20:54:02 GMT
As much as I hate to feed his ego I want to understand the guy who boils my blood so I've had an idea. This is aimed at those who've been here through the good times and the bad. So three questions: What he has done well? What has he done badly? And finally should he stay with an explanation for your opinion. For me I'm not really sure there is a lot, I've been regularly attending for around 6-7 years and nothing has changed, we sell out v Sheffield, we get good crowds for Saturday home games v good opposition and poor crowds Sunday and Midweek. I'd really be interested to see what the average attendance increase is over this period, especially when you take into account that an increase was a given by reduced matches against Edinburgh, Fife and co and replacing with an extra game v Devils, Steelers etc. I actually wouldn't think the average has increased that much when skewed by the schedule factor. Let's put GM not being on the microphone more than a dozen times in the time I've watched as a feather in his cap. Things done badly.... Now we are talking.... In this modern age our primary points of contact with prospective new fans is woeful. Match reports are written in a childish way like children write school football match reports. He did well, he did well, he scored a goal, they got lucky here we were unlucky there and should have won because of this. The remaining website content often contains spelling, grammatical or factual mistakes. It seems there is an attempt to start using Facebook, Twitter etc more prominently which is about time but we are still very much learning when compared to Coventry, Manchester etc who constantly tweet including their sponsors handles to get retweets. This is the new postal system however we just tweet pictures or one liners. This should be used as free marketing and it's all about exposure. Match night presentation is stagnant, I've been to around a dozen games in the DEL where match nights start with pyrotechnics, state of the art CGI videos, mascots on skates going round getting the crowd involved. The primary thing missing though is a cheap area of the arena that fans can go to make noise. Every game I've attended in Germany has seen a couple of guys with loudspeakers keeping one block making noise all night. That one block provides the energy for the team and the building. Our trip to Hamburg was an eye opener for many fans and the same movement was started and quickly quashed in the NIC thanks to panthers management. Maybe being a tenant in a building is restricting some of our match night opportunities but I don't think we've thought out the box very much. I'm also amazed that in 8 years I've never really seen a proper ticket offer to try and get new fans in, we have a huge student population here for most of the season, not once has a Wednesday night v Edinburgh been put on as a Student night with cheaper tickets, kids for a quid, 5 pound tickets for season ticket holders to bring a mate. All these things to get more customers through the door. Instead we seem to do mass freebies like Saturday. No way all the kids in blocks 9,11 and all the people in 1,2,18 and 19 paid for their tickets. These people are likely to come and go away thinking that wasn't bad for free but I wouldn't pay. Instead of getting people in on a deal. The jump from a discounted 5/10 ticket to full price 16 isn't anywhere like paying nothing to 16-19 quid. Finally the keeping of the purse strings, we are so slow to react to any potential problem compared to other clubs who are proactive. This season has highlighted this and the last month particularly. It sounds like we might be finally seeing a replacement for Miika but not before we've thrown half a dozen points or more down the drain icing a semi fit netminder or Dan Green. Sometimes in business you have to speculate to accumulate. A bit of expenditure a month ago might have won us 6 more points that come the final few games of the season we re coup with big home crowds. Our last home game is Coventry on a Wednesday, if we are well out the league race by then how many tickets can we hope to sell? If we went into that game knowing a win would secure the league we'd sell out. Enough ranting, I think the above says time to go, get some new blood in, get this club moving forward. There genuinely has been no progress in the time I've been watching. We have the highest crowds as is and we are effectively a mid table side that's good in the cup that happened to have one good season and win the league. Other than that one year I can't remember being in the race beyond the start of January.
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Post by thebestpanthers on Jan 5, 2016 21:18:27 GMT
Just out of interest who would fans rather have GM the GM or DS the BS - I know which I would choose - both are pashionate about their individual teams - but one says too much, the other not enough
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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 5, 2016 21:20:53 GMT
Just out of interest who would fans rather have GM the GM or DS the BS - I know which I would choose - both are pashionate about their individual teams - but one says too much, the other not enough It's a bit like having to choose between stepping in Horse poo poo or Cow poo poo.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on Jan 5, 2016 21:21:15 GMT
Just out of interest who would fans rather have GM the GM or DS the BS - I know which I would choose - both are pashionate about their individual teams - but one says too much, the other not enough DS is the media guy. He makes no hockey decisions. He is not the GM.
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Jan 5, 2016 21:25:08 GMT
One thing I find interesting is that GM always refused to do highlights on the website and refused to adopt social media etc because he said they'd affect attendances. This year he's finally (or, more likely, been told to) tried to catch up with the rest of the Elite League and the rest of the hockey world and, lo and behold, attendances have been affected....they've INCREASED!
I wonder if he actually tried some of the other things he rules out out of hand (webcasts etc) they'd work as well.
Having said that, one advantage of him is that, whilst he's not good, he's nowhere near the worst in the Elite League. Can't imagine him logging onto Steeltalk to tell the Steelers fans the position of their forthcoming signing, for example.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 5, 2016 21:41:57 GMT
Your spot on Matt.
People also forget the advent of social media as a marketing tool that wasn't around say fifteen years ago. I must admit,when I first came to Nottingham I never even heard of the Panthers or knew hockey was played here until about ten years later. That probably had something to do with me not buying an evening post at the time and there being no Twitter or Facebook etc etc.
Crowds have increased in Nottingham yes,but they have also increased elsewhere too therefore i don't believe that is solely down to GM. The amount of hi tech tools that a media man has at his disposal nowadays is also far superior to what was available previously and it all helps towards growing crowds.
Anybody who thinks GM does a good job needs to compare some of Panthers efforts with other EIHL clubs. Panthers game opening video is seriously pathetic. The majority of our website articles are ultra repetitive and boring. The match night experience is dull but never changes. Panthers radio and tv player/coach interviews,well they are just shockingly poor,if you are going to interview somebody,at least think of some interesting questions and make it more than 40 seconds long for gods sake.
As the biggest club in the land we should be streets ahead of the competition,instead we are limping slowly along with the same old same old !!
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Jan 6, 2016 13:01:03 GMT
If it was so easy why don't all clubs see the same success? Not all clubs get given a, ahem, fabulous arena to try and fill. I agree that the growth in the crowd shouldn't be dismissed, although I do think it's probably had good conditions to grow. Certainly true, but so do Belfast and Sheffield and they've not seen the commercial success we've experienced and possibly not the trophies we have either in the last 5/6 years. He's had the foundations, but you've still got to build on them. I don't like GM the person, but GM the GM has been successful - and so have the Panthers.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Jan 6, 2016 13:12:07 GMT
As the biggest club in the land we should be streets ahead of the competition,instead we are limping slowly along with the same old same old !! EIHL Trophies Won Since 2009/10:Nottingham - 9 Belfast - 4 Sheffield - 3 Cardiff - 1 Coventry - 1 Some would say a 5 year period where we win the same number of trophies as the rest of the league combined would actually count as being 'streets ahead'.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 6, 2016 13:21:32 GMT
Why only since 09/10 though? Gary's been in for 18 and a half years now, we've been in the NIC since the turn of the millennium I think?
And does the Challenge Cup = the Play Offs = the League Title?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 13:23:58 GMT
Dan, do the same table with league titles since GM took over.
There's your answer.
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Post by ted logan on Jan 6, 2016 14:05:49 GMT
Dan, do the same table with league titles since GM took over. There's your answer. 1
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 14:16:54 GMT
Only ONE indeed Ted.
And that was in a season when there was only one realistic challenger,as most of the other teams had problems of one sort or another !
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Jan 6, 2016 16:27:29 GMT
Why only since 09/10 though? Gary's been in for 18 and a half years now, we've been in the NIC since the turn of the millennium I think? And does the Challenge Cup = the Play Offs = the League Title? Don't get me wrong, I'd agree the Panthers under-performed for the period before that. It would be entirely justifiable to have a complete clear-out in 2008...but it would be extremely harsh to say we've not had dramatic success since that point. League titles are still a disappointment but we've won half of the available trophies in the past half-decade - are we sure we're not over-reacting a little?
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Jan 6, 2016 17:37:19 GMT
We've had dramatic success compared to our complete lack of it for many years, and I'd rather win CCs and POs than not obviously, but given we've been the big team for those years, shouldn't we have a league title or two more to our name by now? I know some people argue the point, but given the formats of the competitions that is the true test in the Elite League, the other bits are sideshows. It won't always be our time, I can see Cardiff and Braehead becoming dominant in the not too distant future personally, so have we done enough with it?
That's my argument with GM, not that he's the Great Satan that he often gets painted as, but that we could do more, if he allowed it and if he pushed for it. We seem to do enough and are happy with it, that has to come from somewhere and he's the permanent fixture.
Like last summer when they decided to keep CN, on the website the story Gary wrote basically listed what we'd done last season (the glossed version of saying average in the league, lost to a 20 y.o. Brit kid from a winning start in the CC, failed to qualify for the PO Weekend), which to me read like a litany of failure, then he says on the next paragraph "But the bar is set high in Nottingham, so we had to think about it". "But..." as if that was in some way a reasonable return for us? We often laugh at Sheffield, and there's a lot of material, but they have that drive to win and as a result so often do, we seem to drift along. The bar is not set high in Nottingham and he's the one who should be setting it.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 18:33:02 GMT
Exactly Yotes.
Although we play in a ten team league,some people forget that realistically there are only five teams who could possibly win it and before Braehead came to the fore you could say there were even only four.
Spending or not spending disposable income is what it comes down to. IF Panthers wanted to they could do a massive amount more,but they aren't prepared to do it.
How else do you explain a smaller club like Coventry,with crowds of half what Panthers get having several league titles to Panthers solitary one. Or Cardiff the last few years,they have competed very well in recent seasons and are now top of the league on crowds of 2300 max,whilst Panthers slip to mid table and have been playing short watched by crowds this season averaging some 5600.
It will sure be great for Mr Blacks bank balance,but in terms of commitment to winning,Panthers are very much 2nd rate !
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 6, 2016 20:12:21 GMT
Our greatest achievement is the breahead clan
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 20:22:25 GMT
Financing Braehead is no excuse Pantherdman. The Clan fans tell us they are totally separate from Panthers.....yeah right !
In any case,that only explains a couple of seasons,what about the multitude of other years we have failed miserably.
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Post by pantherman66 on Jan 6, 2016 21:02:00 GMT
This thread has a very 'balanced view' about it, as usual taken over by the usual suspects, and should be re-titled 'Lets all have a pop at GM'. iginla you say that it took you ten years to find out that hockey or the Panthers existed in Nottingham, because you didn't read the Evening Post, what about Radio Nottingham, Radio Trent (as it was then), and both local TV stations at that time. Considering there was no social media at the time, just how much notice did or do you need, but hey ho anything to have a go at the organisation. There are so many examples on this thread about how poor the club/GM is/are that are written as fact, but are simply peoples opinions. There are lots of things the club could do better, and by the way I am not a massive fan of GM, but the constant barrage of negativity is beyond boring.
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Post by pantherdman on Jan 6, 2016 21:17:20 GMT
Financing Braehead is no excuse Pantherdman. The Clan fans tell us they are totally separate from Panthers.....yeah right ! In any case,that only explains a couple of seasons,what about the multitude of other years we have failed miserably. No excuses from me. Our .500 elite league record is turgid. Mike Ellis was sacked for it even though he won the double and results have stayed the same.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 22:25:40 GMT
Mike Ellis was got rid of mainly because he incurred the wrath of GM by sending Paul Moran to the EPL,along with a few other dumb moves.
Rule number one if you want to remain for long as Panthers coach........be a yes man,do as you're told and make sure you stay on the right side of Gary Moran !
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 22:46:44 GMT
That was exactly my previous point Pantherman 66.
I didn't read the evening post at the time and i rarely listened to local radio either,even if I ever did,just as now,as soon as the adverts come on I turn the sound off because it's like sitting in the car being brainwashed with the same adverts over and over again. The tv station coverage has always been sparse to say the least too and even now is only ever a short snippet on one channel occasionally,but not the other.
So basically 15 years ago a media man only had at his disposal,radio adverts,a tiny bit of tv coverage if he was very lucky or an article or advert in the paper. When you look at what the same media guy has had in recent years in addition to that,by means of club websites,Twitter,Facebook etc etc,plus in Panthers case a lovely new stadium......is it really any great surprise that Panthers crowds have grown ?
I don't think so. And they certainly haven't grown only because of GM that's for sure !!!
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Mark
Randall Weber
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Post by Mark on Jan 6, 2016 22:50:47 GMT
Horrible man whose ego supersedes everything else. Speak to anyone who has had dealings with him, he's not loved.
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Jan 6, 2016 23:23:47 GMT
I wonder how much more bitter you would be if you found ice hockey when you first moved to Nottingham Iginla?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Jan 6, 2016 23:33:48 GMT
Tell me which item in my posts is untrue Shorty.
At least i contribute to this forum....unlike some who just respond with silly questions like you just asked !
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