Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
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Post by Higgy on Nov 1, 2015 14:38:48 GMT
He seems to have lost all his confidence, he got in some great positions last night but just didn't want to shoot,he hung on too long then made a bad pass and turned it over.
If you don't have any options surely it is best to dump it rather than over play it and potentially lead to the opposition having a scoring chance.
Lacho is definitely not the only player guilty of gifting possession due to bad passes/decisions. Lee does it far too often as well.
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Post by thebestpanthers on Nov 1, 2015 14:43:27 GMT
As with most sports there are some players who cannot do anything wrong according to their supporters - obviously Lacho has his own share of these - he can be good (nobody will argue with that) - he can be frustrating (hence this thread) - reduce his "ice time" and hope that he will make use of the time he has on the ice to perform better - if not, let him go next season.
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pman
Jade Galbraith
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Post by pman on Nov 1, 2015 14:49:56 GMT
Pretty harsh comments I see about Lacho here. I agree with him looking lazy, although that's always been his style of play since way back, more effortless In my opinion. People who are say it's ridiculous how much certain players earn and in this case Lacho, could you please enlighten me on how much you know he is getting paid? Because I would love to know. I think it's pretty harsh to jump on someone so early on in the season who is actually the top Brit forward point scorer in the team at the moment. And has helped and delivered numerous trophies during his time at panthers, which you all seem to be forgetting. www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=EIHL&season=15How did he get injured the other week? Oh wait blocking a shot, yeah that means he's not putting effort in for the team. Has has less goals than Bryan Schmidt this season... And we're a quarter of the way through. I don't want us to hang on to Brits because they HAVE been good. That's what Sheffield do and that's why they'll struggle in a couple of years when Phillips, Hewitt etc retire. So in that case get rid of all of our Brits because Schmidt has scored more than all of them then if we're going with that fantastic theory!
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Pies
Forum Moderator
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Post by Pies on Nov 1, 2015 14:50:06 GMT
Form is temporary, class is permanent. He's had a bad time of it I will say. Getting rid of him would be completely daft IMO.
I think he's suffered by not having regular line mates. When he was with Franny season after season, you could see how good he was. He needs a centre man with similar speed - I like our centres but none of them had his speed which means he's either up the ice on his own looking for someone that's not there. His PK ability is still great. It's hard to build confidence up when things aren't going your way so having people slag you off week in week out must be hard. He needs one good preformance and we'll start to see the old Lacho back
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Post by dill1015 on Nov 1, 2015 14:58:33 GMT
Ok i'll bite. I dont usually get draw into these sort of discussions but tbh im really tired of the lacho bashing band wagon thats going around this season.
Lacho has never been big in the corners, or type of guy that charges around the ice like a man possessed. What he does give you is as good a pass as any british player in the league, get defensive work in his own end and points.
I agree he has not been on the level that he reaches a few years ago. 1 thing i will say though is that he hasnt been on a set line in a while. Can anyone actually tell me who his line mates are?
Anyone who thinks Ollie should take lachos place needs to look at the big picture. Everyone loves a worker but Lacho offers far more in terms of end product and passing quality. By no means do i think Betteridge is poor but he just isnt a guy who could play on a top line yet. Lacho is, with the right line mates he has proved he can be one of the top brit players out there.
Theres 3 of our other brits that im more concered about than lacho. Lee, Swindlehurst and (unpopular opinion incoming)... farmer. Farmer has great work rate but has had a slow start to this season points wise despite being put on the top line in the first few game (a place earned after last season). I have no doubt the farmer will come good i just find it intresting how some players seem to be immune from criticism whilst other are continuously hounded by parts of our fan base.
In short i agree lacho is in a slump, however is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. And isnt being helped by not being settled into a line.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Nov 1, 2015 14:58:44 GMT
As with most sports there are some players who cannot do anything wrong according to their supporters - obviously Lacho has his own share of these - he can be good (nobody will argue with that) - he can be frustrating (hence this thread) - reduce his "ice time" and hope that he will make use of the time he has on the ice to perform better - if not, let him go next season. I don't think anyone can say he's done nothing wrong as he has been nothing short of flat for two straight years however last night he did a lot of good and it seems right now unless he's slamming in goals and dominant in the oppositions zone then he's automatically not doing his job. He's a two way player and last night played a solid game defensively. Imo if he isn't putting up points it's fine so long as he's dominating at the back end and last night he was very effective.
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Post by jdizpt8 on Nov 1, 2015 15:54:14 GMT
For me we've got players this year who'll rack up points and lead that front and we've got players who will grind teams down and work their socks off night in night out, the issue with Lacho is he isn't the top end goal scorer he could be nor is he the grinder work horse he's kinda floating in the middle. He'll pipe up now and then but it's not been regular enough so far this season or at all last season. He's been playing most games with Kolnik and Moran and has been playing PP. with those two as his line mates his points should be higher. He doesn't go into the corners and does shy away from any physicality and his development in terms of size and stature will have halted due to age. He should have looked elsewhere this season to give himself a new challenge. I'd like to see Ollie get more ice time and be given the chance to develop more as the season progresses like Lacho has been given numerous years to do. And as others have said when farmer is back and a Shultz replacement is in/Shultz is back and we've got a full roster how much ice time will he be seeing?
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Post by jdizpt8 on Nov 1, 2015 15:56:40 GMT
For me we've got players this year who'll rack up points and lead that front and we've got players who will grind teams down and work their socks off night in night out, the issue with Lacho is he isn't the top end goal scorer he could be nor is he the grinder work horse he's kinda floating in the middle. He'll pipe up now and then but it's not been regular enough so far this season or at all last season. He's been playing most games with Kolnik and Moran and has been playing PP. with those two as his line mates his points should be higher. He doesn't go into the corners and does shy away from any physicality and his development in terms of size and stature will have halted due to age. He should have looked elsewhere this season to give himself a new challenge. I'd like to see Ollie get more ice time and be given the chance to develop more as the season progresses like Lacho has been given numerous years to do. And as others have said when farmer is back and a Shultz replacement is in/Shultz is back and we've got a full roster how much ice time will he be seeing? And to add to my comment he's been fortunate to play with players who have been of the hugest calibre this league can attract which is why he's appeared successful. It's the players around him that have given him the success otherwise we'd have won trophies last year
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Post by thebestpanthers on Nov 1, 2015 17:50:13 GMT
Has has less goals than Bryan Schmidt this season... And we're a quarter of the way through. I don't want us to hang on to Brits because they HAVE been good. That's what Sheffield do and that's why they'll struggle in a couple of years when Phillips, Hewitt etc retire. So in that case get rid of all of our Brits because Schmidt has scored more than all of them then if we're going with that fantastic theory! I think the reply was in response to your comment that Lacho was the highest point scorer - hope you have plenty of money to bid for Lacho's shirt when it comes up for sale, then again if he carries on playing like he is then you may get it at cut-price
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Nov 1, 2015 18:05:44 GMT
But Lacho did apparently test the water elsewhere this summer and yet still ended up signing late back at Panthers. So that would suggest,either there were no takers elsewhere or the money offered was nowhere near as good as here !
Having said that,perhaps we are being a bit harsh on the guy,as he has actually been our second top scorer in both the last two seasons.
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Post by bruinspanthers on Nov 1, 2015 18:30:52 GMT
Pretty harsh comments I see about Lacho here. I agree with him looking lazy, although that's always been his style of play since way back, more effortless In my opinion. People who are say it's ridiculous how much certain players earn and in this case Lacho, could you please enlighten me on how much you know he is getting paid? Because I would love to know. I think it's pretty harsh to jump on someone so early on in the season who is actually the top Brit forward point scorer in the team at the moment. And has helped and delivered numerous trophies during his time at panthers, which you all seem to be forgetting. www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=EIHL&season=15How did he get injured the other week? Oh wait blocking a shot, yeah that means he's not putting effort in for the team. Has has less goals than Bryan Schmidt this season... And we're a quarter of the way through. I don't want us to hang on to Brits because they HAVE been good. That's what Sheffield do and that's why they'll struggle in a couple of years when Phillips, Hewitt etc retire. Corey has proving before he will get rid of Brits if he doesn't think they will help the cause so I don't think we will hold onto him because he HAS been good However in regards to Lacho I think you'd be crazy to cut him blimey!
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Post by BigLad on Nov 1, 2015 19:25:03 GMT
Thought Lacho had a poor first 30 minutes last night followed by a pretty good last 30 minutes.
But then again, that was our team yesterday.
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Mark
Randall Weber
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Post by Mark on Nov 1, 2015 20:15:23 GMT
Lachowicz hasn't had a good game yet this season. That's two months. He's too small to be much use in the corners and in my opinion his value on the penalty kill is overrated. That leaves goal scoring, and that's not happening either. Bench him or cut his ice time whilst making it clear he will have to fight for his place instead of it being a given.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Nov 1, 2015 20:18:02 GMT
Whilst he has not hit top form this season, and is having mixed games I think he is a valuable player. His ability to take the puck off the opposition is a key strength hence his good work on penalty kills. I think he is being singled out for criticism because someone said he was being paid a lot, and that was why we were not bringing in our final import. I agree with your first paragraph Shorty, but if he's not on good money - given the league rules - he's a mug. He might've reached his ceiling as a player, I dunno, but I don't think his level is too bad for a Brit. As iginla said earlier, even in the last couple of years where he's also been criticised, he's been one of our top scorers. I've no faith in his finishing (see that nice, flowing move against the Caps the other day that, sadly, he was on the end of) but he just needs lining properly so that's not his job.
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pman
Jade Galbraith
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Post by pman on Nov 1, 2015 21:01:38 GMT
For me we've got players this year who'll rack up points and lead that front and we've got players who will grind teams down and work their socks off night in night out, the issue with Lacho is he isn't the top end goal scorer he could be nor is he the grinder work horse he's kinda floating in the middle. He'll pipe up now and then but it's not been regular enough so far this season or at all last season. He's been playing most games with Kolnik and Moran and has been playing PP. with those two as his line mates his points should be higher. He doesn't go into the corners and does shy away from any physicality and his development in terms of size and stature will have halted due to age. He should have looked elsewhere this season to give himself a new challenge. I'd like to see Ollie get more ice time and be given the chance to develop more as the season progresses like Lacho has been given numerous years to do. And as others have said when farmer is back and a Shultz replacement is in/Shultz is back and we've got a full roster how much ice time will he be seeing? And to add to my comment he's been fortunate to play with players who have been of the hugest calibre this league can attract which is why he's appeared successful. It's the players around him that have given him the success otherwise we'd have won trophies last year He wouldn't be playing with them players if Corey didn't think he was good enough.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on Nov 1, 2015 21:17:22 GMT
Ok so the main thing is he's a polarizing player. A fairly even split in feelings.
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Post by jdizpt8 on Nov 1, 2015 21:42:03 GMT
And to add to my comment he's been fortunate to play with players who have been of the hugest calibre this league can attract which is why he's appeared successful. It's the players around him that have given him the success otherwise we'd have won trophies last year He wouldn't be playing with them players if Corey didn't think he was good enough. grand slam year he earned his ice time, year after he had Francis and Salters on his line and again he played well with them and got plenty of points mainly due to the quality of those two guys, last season he didn't have great players with him and he did very little. This season he's continued in the way he played last year, fact is we have to ice Brits so the guys we've got in will be out with imports to compliment their game. So it's not really a case of how good a Brit is rather then how to get the best out of them. Even Corey has stated he needs to up his game. When we've got a full quota it'll be interesting to see what happens
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RBR97
Jim Keyes
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Post by RBR97 on Nov 2, 2015 15:18:16 GMT
He needs to do what a good number of other brits have done and go play his game in Europe.... then hopefully either come back a better player or stay over there. With his current form either of those results would be a winner.
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Ian
Matt Myers
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Post by Ian on Nov 2, 2015 15:53:57 GMT
There's no question that Lacho has struggled last season and so far this year to match his previous performance levels and it is becoming a concern that the player and coach need to address. I do think he has got into a bit of a comfort zone with the Panthers, and Corey definitely seems aware of that too, with his public challenges to Lacho to up his contribution. It is a huge season for him, and he has only made a moderate start, not helped by his recent injury.
I don't think British (or home town) players are above criticism - far from it, I think any professional in any walk of life should be judged on their perfomance. But I do think some of the criticism is OTT. There is no point slating Lacho for lack of physical play, not grinding in the corners etc. etc. He's never a player who is going to be charging around like a mad beast every shift, that's not his job (and we have other players who are excellent at those aspects of the game). His game is based partly on speed, but also on his awareness of the game - this is why he has such a good range of passing, and also why his defensive/PK work is so strong. His passing and hands are better than almost all other British players, and above many imports too. I don't think there is a lack of effort either, for some reason it's just not coming off for him. Maybe something he's doing, maybe the coach needs to do something different to get the best out of him.
It's frustrating for everyone right now - the coach, the player himself no doubt, and certainly us the fans. But not time to get the knives out just yet folks.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 20:17:07 GMT
You're mistaking give aways to dumping out of the zone, if anyone was a turnover machine last night it was Dimmen or Lee. More good than bad, yes there were a few giveaways but I'm more concerned at the amount of times Dimmen and Lee gave the puck away that both blue lines that created two on one situations. Im sure you've got Dimmen confused with somebody else, this years Mr. Reliable. Very reminiscent of Eric Werner. With regards to Lacho, he's been better this year than he was last. Maybe that's down to being put with players the calibre of Moran and Kolnik before he got injured who knows. I thought he could've done with a change of scenery over the summer, more for his benefit than anything else, but there is no doubt he is an asset especially on the penalty kill. Defensively I have no issue with him, personally I think he could be a quality 3rd line defensive winger if that's what he concentrated on. My problems with him stem from decision making in the offensive zone, it's frustrating because the abilities there but when Farmers back I don't want Lacho anywhere near the powerplay. I've always wondered what type of player Lacho is, I've seen people say he's one of the finer British finishers out there when he's confident, but is he a playmaker, 2-way forward, sniper? It's not something I can answer with any confidence because I just don't know.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator
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Post by Shaggy on Nov 2, 2015 22:50:38 GMT
Lacho is not - nor should he be - exempt from criticism... but some of it is way OTT. It seems like there's always a 'scapegoat of the moment' in this fanbase... usually it's David Clarke, right now it's Robert Lachowicz. I really do think that some people are taking it way too far, seeing only what they want to see.
OK, first the bad points. The most frustrating thing for me about Lacho is his apparent unwillingness to take the shot... 9 times out of 10 he goes for the pass, even when he's actually in a better position than the shooter he passes to. So in a lot of those cases, we don't get the goal... and quite often we end up losing possession. He was actually asked about this by a GB fan (not me) out in Eindhoven at the Worlds last April... his reply was that there's almost always someone there who is a better scorer than him. That may be true (although we know he can really turn it on himself at times - remember that cracking goal against Hamburg Freezers?) but really... a few more shots instead of passes would not go amiss, and a few more successful attempts might well improve his confidence, which could lead to a bit of a snowball effect. Come on Rob - shoot!
Another criticism of him (right or wrong) is lack of physicality. This, to my mind, is both true and not. He's not a hard-checking player, he's not usually one to dive straight into a melee and fight to take the puck off the opposition. A weakness? - perhaps... but if so, there have been plenty of imports (including those lauded for being great in other areas - Doucet, Galbraith, etc) who haven't done so either... and arguably they were better suited to it. What he does do is to protect the puck in such situations... and although he does sometimes get forced off it (as does any player, regardless of size) he's actually better at keeping it and dishing it out to a linemate than many players bigger than him. I think it was the lead-up to Dimmen's goal on Saturday (shown on the highlights released today) that at least partially give an example of that.
He doesn't always get it right, of course... no player does. He makes mistakes, sometimes he doesn't play well - or at least not as well as he could. There was one absolute howler of a giveaway from him on Saturday (which thankfully didn't lead to a Steelers goal)... thing is, not too much later in the game, a virtually-identical error was made by David Ling. I don't see anyone calling for his head... mistakes happen, and quite frankly the whole team have been making far too many of those lately.
As for the 'lazy' accusation that has been made about him... yeah, right. A player who can - and frequently does - outpace the opposition, forechecks like a terrier, takes a battering and still keep hold of the puck whilst looking for an opportunity to pass... those aren't examples of laziness. Anyway, I've always taken that particular accusation with a serious pinch of salt since a few people started slagging off Jimmy Paek for being 'lazy', simply because he wasn't usually skating around at top speed. No, he wasn't... he was using his brain and great positional ability to get to the puck without needing to imitate Speedy Gonzales.
The thing is... was Robert Lachowicz picked for the team to be a top goalscorer? A sniper? No, I don't think he was. A penalty-killer, a speedy puck-carrier, a provider... more assists than goals. That's his role, from what I can see. Goals are always welcome of course, the more the better... but if people are worried that we might suffer because Robert Lachowicz isn't scoring enough goals, then we're in real trouble... because we have an absolute shed-load of players who are supposed to be goalscorers! It's a team game with many roles to be played on the team... and some of those roles might lessen the chance of a player scoring goals himself - doesn't mean that player is any less valuable. Take Matthew Myers, for example... yes, he does score a fair few goals - but his biggest contributions to the team are in winning face-offs, getting stuck in along the boards, causing havoc in front of the crease, etc... he might well score more goals if he moved to a purely sniper's role, but that would actually probably hurt the team overall by losing the other contributions he makes.
Lacho could, I firmly believe, do better. I hope he does. But right now, even if he's not playing to his full potential, he's a positive part of the team, and brings elements of play to the team that are needed. So, no... I don't think we should get rid.
Oh yeah... and for pity's sake, if you can't lay out to us in clear hard numbers what he's being paid - and I don't believe that a single one of you can - then I suggest you shut the hell up on that score, because all you are doing is guessing. That goes for every player, not just Lacho. We don't know what the team budget is, we don't know what any player is being paid, what other benefits might be included (other than the university courses), how any of this compares with opposition players and teams... basically, we don't know jack financially. It's about time some people faced up to that fact instead of letting ego and prejudice do the talking. The first part of wisdom is knowing what it is that you don't know... some people need to wise up.
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Ghost
Matt Myers
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Post by Ghost on Nov 2, 2015 23:30:38 GMT
Ive seen some posts on here suggesting that Lacho has never previously been a 'physical' player. Whilst I'd agree that he has certainly never been a guy to take the body I wouldn't agree that his play has not been physical.
I think back to when Lacho was really effective and the attribute(s) that impressed me most was his overall ability to create turnovers. He would battle in corners (despite what some on here say) and more often than not emerge with the puck. His PK work was excellent, his speed made him and excellent weapon on the fore check and he chipped in with (often key) points.
Now, he does none of it very well. It's not Lacho bashing it's just plain clear to see fact. The most frustrating player on the team by far. Even worse than Lee.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Nov 3, 2015 0:53:47 GMT
You're mistaking give aways to dumping out of the zone, if anyone was a turnover machine last night it was Dimmen or Lee. More good than bad, yes there were a few giveaways but I'm more concerned at the amount of times Dimmen and Lee gave the puck away that both blue lines that created two on one situations. Im sure you've got Dimmen confused with somebody else, this years Mr. Reliable. Very reminiscent of Eric Werner. With regards to Lacho, he's been better this year than he was last. Maybe that's down to being put with players the calibre of Moran and Kolnik before he got injured who knows. I thought he could've done with a change of scenery over the summer, more for his benefit than anything else, but there is no doubt he is an asset especially on the penalty kill. Defensively I have no issue with him, personally I think he could be a quality 3rd line defensive winger if that's what he concentrated on. My problems with him stem from decision making in the offensive zone, it's frustrating because the abilities there but when Farmers back I don't want Lacho anywhere near the powerplay. I've always wondered what type of player Lacho is, I've seen people say he's one of the finer British finishers out there when he's confident, but is he a playmaker, 2-way forward, sniper? It's not something I can answer with any confidence because I just don't know. Not confusing him with anyone, he turned the puck over a lot Saturday night. I agree he's been a reliable guy for us but saturday he had an off night and was coughing pucks up a lot trying east to west passes. Took his goal very well though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 7:36:29 GMT
Has has less goals than Bryan Schmidt this season... And we're a quarter of the way through. I don't want us to hang on to Brits because they HAVE been good. That's what Sheffield do and that's why they'll struggle in a couple of years when Phillips, Hewitt etc retire. Corey has proving before he will get rid of Brits if he doesn't think they will help the cause so I don't think we will hold onto him because he HAS been good However in regards to Lacho I think you'd be crazy to cut him blimey! Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to cut him because we know he has the talent and is still young and I'd rather we try and find that instead of letting another EIHL find it. But I just wish he could find himself some confidence. Maybe he's playing a different role at the moment. He needs a partner I think. He seems to miss Franny and Salters
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Post by bruinspanthers on Nov 3, 2015 7:38:24 GMT
Corey has proving before he will get rid of Brits if he doesn't think they will help the cause so I don't think we will hold onto him because he HAS been good However in regards to Lacho I think you'd be crazy to cut him blimey! Don't get me wrong, I don't want us to cut him because we know he has the talent and is still young and I'd rather we try and find that instead of letting another EIHL find it. But I just wish he could find himself some confidence. Maybe he's playing a different role at the moment. He needs a partner I think. He seems to miss Franny and Salters Franny's was brilliant with him as he was on the same page as him and both could match each other's pace I wonder what a line with him and Mosey (I know he's playing D atm) would be like if they could get the chemistry together....
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