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Post by paganpanther666 on Dec 15, 2014 14:27:46 GMT
IMO, yes, we played horribly last night. The ice wasn't great (we had 3/4 good scoring chances and the puck turned up or bobbled over the stick) and I think Belfast had a few like that too. Can't help wondering what would have happened if we didn't have the teddy toss, and carried on our momentum on the PP straight away! Ah well.
As for the league challenge, everyone is beating everyone this year. I fully expect, come the end of the season, that every team in the league will record a win over everyone else, it's just that close. Makes for (IMO) a far better season, I don't mind losing to a better team as long as we've put the effort in. Last night we didn't, and I can't make an excuse for how bad we were, but I still believe this team has what it takes to win the league. It was only two weeks ago we were sitting top. One weekend and we could be there again.
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Post by dexter on Dec 15, 2014 15:14:12 GMT
It would be really interesting to get the management's perspective on the deficiencies that others have raised on here and in other threads (which for the record I fully agree with). I didn't go to the talk show this year (didn't feel like spending more money on the panthers when I don't feel they respond to the fans' concerns) but I wondered if any of the problems were aired then, and if so, what the response was?
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Dec 15, 2014 15:28:42 GMT
There's a DVD of it, but I doubt the questions were that serious, was supposed to be quite a jovial sort of thing wasn't it?
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Post by PantherB on Dec 15, 2014 15:47:38 GMT
Last nights game was a poor one but to say it was a poor one we did quite well to pull it back to 3-3 at one point.. We play poor and keep it close, what does that tell you about Belfast?
The guys didn't practice on Saturday and i'm not too sure but they might not have practiced on Friday either due to the arena being fully booked up, that obviously is out of Panthers' hands regarding ice time but, to give the players a day if not 2 days off is ridiculous when there's a big game against the current but underperforming Giants. If we had have won this one it would've put us 3 points behind Steelers which obviously no one likes to hear but we would've been within easy reach of them. The loss against Giants puts us in a bit of a tough situation heading into the christmas period where the games will come thick and fast.
We had a poor game last night but we can bounce back from this, we've seen the team play at their best and when they do, they are infact a very good team who can beat anyone. Get the guys back in practice at least once per day, maybe twice like at the start of pre-season.. if we can't get the icetime, bus the guys to the nearest rink with ice time avaliable.
This next part will be my opinion on each individual player;
Modig - Quality goalie, very quick with his reactions but can give up some troublesome rebounds if the defence don't act quick. But overall, a very good, solid goaltender. Kowalski - We all know what he's like when at his best, brilliant.. just a shame he's sidelined. Green - For a backup, he's very good, admittedly he does make a fair few mistakes now and then but what can you expect from a 33 year old British backup.
Berube - Currently injured but looks decent at times but often underperforms, probably more used to a leader role so his underperformance may just be down to him being used differently to how he's used to or how he's used best. I'd like to see him as an 'A' or maybe even 'C'. Landry - Young, quick and very protective of Modig/Kowalski/Green. makes a few mistakes but has a lot of potential. Lee - Brilliant for a Brit but seems to be one of those who'll either play great or bad. Could do with playing more physical and let rip onetimers/slapshots whenever he gets chance. Mosey - In my opinion, one of our best players, very quick, quite skilful, good defensive skills and great offensive skills.. could do with throwing and finishing more hits. Oakford - Took the big step up this season, very vocal and posseses leadership abilities. Does make a few mistakes but isn't a liability, got good potential. Schmidt - Big body, not particularly quick but a pretty good defensive defenceman. Like others, makes a few mistakes but Schmidt can't really quickly make up for them due to his size and lack of speed, doesn't have a good shot either but overall i think he's a useful player to have. Wild - Similar to Mosey, a great defenceman with good offensive instincts. Has a good shot, pass and speed, could do with being more agressive and physical.
Benedict - Probably the most hardworking player on the team, let down by the laziness of others. With the right players Benedict can easily cause a lot of damage. Boxill - What i'd call our 2nd most hardworking player, never stops and always throws the body, very gritty. Just lacks size and skill.. i like him but don't think he should be on our PP as he doesn't have a brilliant shot. Still one of my favourites though. Clarke - Can be a very good player at times but lacks consistency and discipline. Has a good shot and is quite quick, not my idea of a leader and wouldn't be my first choice as Captain. Farmer - Lacks focus and discipline, but when he is focused he plays very well.. just needs to stop getting drawn into things. Has skill, speed and a pretty good shot, the discipline, agitator side does him no favours though. Graham - Great sniper, just needs to find consistency and a line he's good with. Lacks agression and physical play which is a downside but overall he's a good player who is due to start being as dangerous as we saw in 2012-13. Higgins - Very skillful and quick with a decent pass and shot, quite selfish and lazy when things aren't going his way, sort the lines out and he'll be a lot more effective and a better teamplayer. Jacina - Similar to Higgins, very quick, skillful and has a good shot but can be selfish and lazy. I don't think his attitude is brilliant either. Could be real dangerous with the right linemates. Lachowics - In my opinion, overated. He is good yes, quite quick and has a decent shot.. just lacks size and agression, i don't think he's good enough to try moves you see other players pull off. Maybe a season overseas could do him good, improve his game a little more. Parent - Hardworking player who plays with agression, isn't too skilful but is fairly quick and has a good shot.. he's young and has a lot of potential, also quite a protective 'answer the bell' when needed to kind of player. Lawrence - Similar to Graham but with maybe a few more mistakes, doesn't have great balance and isn't very pysical which is a downside. He has a bullet of a shot but tends to look for the pass rather than to shoot which is also another negative. He needs to shoot more and be a little selfish from time to time, stick him on the blue line when on the PP, very quick release on his shot so could do a lot of damage.
Neilson - Easily the best coach the Panthers organisation has ever seen, brought us a lot of tropies during his time but.. he seems quite stubborn and not very assertive, if his game plan fails, he'll keep trying it.. not very active when on the bench, more of an observer - wait till the end of the period to sort things out kind of coach. I like him but he needs to try different things and not keep trying when it fails (alternating linemates)
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Post by fishman on Dec 15, 2014 16:03:56 GMT
Consistency is what this team lacks
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Post by ted logan on Dec 15, 2014 16:10:50 GMT
Chris Capraro was gassed last season having put up 21 pts (9 goals; 12 assists) in 22 games.
This would make him our 3rd highest scoring import this season behind Chris Lawrence with 27 pts (13 goals; 14 assists) from 29 games and Bruce Graham with 23 pts (12 goals; 11 assists) from 28 games.
In terms of PPG, Capraro would be our top scoring import with 0.95 PPG compared to Lawrence at 0.93 PPG and Graham at 0.79 PPG.
Says someting that the poorest (I say that because he was the first to be gassed) forward in last years team would be the best forward in terms of PPG in this years.
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Dec 15, 2014 16:18:45 GMT
My view of the team is quite simple. It's not very attractive and the results are going incredibly well, but we're still in the mix, and while that is the case then I'm relatively happy. Yesterday was ugly as hell as a game of hockey. Both teams weren't particularly great, but we were second best all night.
As for the actual players themselves, the Brits are fine, I have no problem with any of them. Farmer gets a lot of stick I've noticed, mainly for getting involved in stuff, but realistically if he doesn't get "involved" then who the hell does on this team? I like the fact that he has taken some absolute shoeings sticking up for team mates, and still comes back for more.
But importwise there's only 2 (possibly 4) that'd make it back next year for me. Modig (although I think his possible offers from Sweden and Europe might prove too tempting) and Benedict are the only 2 that I'd definitely keep. The only other 2 that I'd contemplate keeping would be Graham and Higgins and that's based on what we've seen in previous seasons and at flashes during this season, they have definitely got it, we just haven't seen it consistantly like we did before this season.
The rest are players that realistically can be upgraded on. I also have no doubt that they could also quite easily be downgraded on too.
I must be one of a very select few who doesn't like Wild too. I thought apart from on the PP last night he was atrocious. I'd love (actually I'd probably hate) to see his, and the rest of the team's for that matter, +/- stats for this season. I imagine it's not very pretty.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 16:52:55 GMT
I must be one of a very select few who doesn't like Wild too. I thought apart from on the PP last night he was atrocious. I'd love (actually I'd probably hate) to see his, and the rest of the team's for that matter, +/- stats for this season. I imagine it's not very pretty. I was definitley watching a different game to you then, he was a cut above everyone playing yesterday (and in all honesty he is most weeks). Including the Giants players. I don't think any +/- stats will be that bad either seeing as we statistically have the best defence in the league from a goals against stand point. Having said that I've noticed Schmidt and Oakford get caught flat footed quite a lot from outlet passes leading to a breakaway, but I'm not sure which one of thems to blame for that (if any). That pairing seem to be on the ice for a majority of the goals against though, well it seems that way.
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gump
Pat Casey
Posts: 348
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Post by gump on Dec 15, 2014 18:06:47 GMT
Funny how all these non players, coaches, super fans, not so super fans all seem to have the answers but if challenged to implement their so called knowledge would fade as quickly as a snow ball in 20 degree heat. Team sports has many tangebles and a poor effort or bad luck will happen to any pro team. We seem to forget that you cannot always will your way to victory as there is another team on the ice wanting the same and some days they will overcome your best effort. If these players acheicved the expectations of this fan base they certainly wouldn't be playing here because they would be in demand in many other leagues higher than this one.Given the competitive level of the league this year it is great to go to a game and know anyone can win on any given night, maybe its time we just sat and back enjoyed the game and quit mocking the players and coach because when it comes down to it we don't have a clue what it takes to win at this level let alone be champions.
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Post by kezypanther on Dec 15, 2014 18:06:55 GMT
Surely someone has been doing +/- for the season ? If so can you kindly send some stats to my pm. If you don't want to post on the forum
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Post by spik on Dec 15, 2014 18:55:07 GMT
Surely someone has been doing +/- for the season ? If so can you kindly send some stats to my pm. If you don't want to post on the forum Something I'd be interested to know also.We must have one fella/gal who does this. Maybe we should start it some way.
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Post by kezypanther on Dec 15, 2014 19:17:16 GMT
Surely someone has been doing +/- for the season ? If so can you kindly send some stats to my pm. If you don't want to post on the forum Something I'd be interested to know also.We must have one fella/gal who does this. Maybe we should start it some way. A way to do it would be from the released highlights see who is on the ice when the goals are scored and conceded but it might be a little too late now unless someone has already started. Or you have a few hours to spare xD
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Post by jdizpt8 on Dec 15, 2014 20:48:22 GMT
For me the worry is that Cody Wild might think poo this I'm busting a nut every night and these punks aren't im going back to america, he's by far our best player this season, think mosey is better suited as a forward so I'd be looking to upgrade on D we need a big tough dman to hit and intimidate and we can upgrade on forwards, top 5 players who are free agents in the ECHL is be looking at as this years league is of a lower standard then previous, Fulgham, Ulanski, Boyd would put up good number, Fulgham has 5 seasons of very good point production. I'm struggling to think who our import forwards are they stand out that much :/ we need something coming in, word about Robbo coming back, great if it happens but we need more!!
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Dec 16, 2014 16:52:05 GMT
Funny how all these non players, coaches, super fans, not so super fans all seem to have the answers but if challenged to implement their so called knowledge would fade as quickly as a snow ball in 20 degree heat. Team sports has many tangebles and a poor effort or bad luck will happen to any pro team. We seem to forget that you cannot always will your way to victory as there is another team on the ice wanting the same and some days they will overcome your best effort. If these players acheicved the expectations of this fan base they certainly wouldn't be playing here because they would be in demand in many other leagues higher than this one.Given the competitive level of the league this year it is great to go to a game and know anyone can win on any given night, maybe its time we just sat and back enjoyed the game and quit mocking the players and coach because when it comes down to it we don't have a clue what it takes to win at this level let alone be champions. The old show us your badges post. Close the forum.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 18:17:17 GMT
I think part of the issue is Mosey being on Defence. Due to Berube and Oakford being out, we're forced to play him there and therefore one of our more creative and speedy players is held back.
I have also been in the "why do we need an enforcer" camp. But Sunday made me doubt that. I don't think we need a player to go around bullying. We'd be just as well playing someone big who is physical (as our team is either big and soft or short and tough) and I'd love to see a player like Lloyd here. Does my beeping head in but boy is he effective.
The defence (when fully fit) is absolutely fine for me. They could be a league winning defence easily and I would argue better than any other team in the leagues. If we just had a bit more firepower we'd be well away. That's literally all I see us needing. If the miracle happens and we do the double over sheffield this Xmas we go back top again (assuming results go right until then) so I refuse to rule us out of the league until mathematically impossible. Last year the title was won too easily. This year there'll be a big fight until the end and if we don't win it, it could potentially be our best league position (besides the year we won the league). We have a foot in the CC semi already and (without a slip up of massive proportion) will qualify for playoffs again. There's a lot to be positive about but I also understand where the doubt comes from. Just depends whether your a glass half full or half empty kinda person I suppose.
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caps91
Jade Galbraith
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Post by caps91 on Dec 17, 2014 14:35:42 GMT
Firstly, having not seen many games this season due to being at university, I can't build too much of an opinion on the team, though having been a season ticket holder for nearly 18 years!, this is definitely one of the more boring teams I've ever watched. Saying this, it is definitely not the worst team as such, as people have said, this team has conceded the lowest goals, hence the defence can't be that poor at all? however we are seriously lacking a leader, fox is the prime example of someone who would step up if the game was poor or we were losing? Clarke isn't the same, he's a good player, definitely one of the best Brits, but only when he concentrates on shooting and not every aspect of the game, everyone has bad games, and he definitely seemed like he was trying to do too much or forced to against Belfast. He's not a centre and so should not be playing there, even as cover, there must be people who are better at face offs, if not practice them! im not a massive fan of enforcers, there's no need for them in this league, however a lepine figure is definitely needed, not just cos of the physicality, but after a couple seasons at panthers, he turned into a top quality defender, hence where he is now. This would also allow someone like mosey who possesses skill and speed, something not many other players seems to have, especially speed!, to play as a forward and actually chase the puck once dumped Bringing me onto neilson, he definitely insists on playing the same tactic regardless of the scoreline or game, the dump and chase won't work if no one chases, which since we don't seem have much of a physical presence or speed, is pointless playing it. This is something that massively infuriates me, because that's a crucial part of coaching, he can see stuff the players can't Necessarily see when they are playing, and he should be changing it when it doesn't work. i feel like cutting people may not be the right thing to do, bring 1/2 players in and make the players work for their spot on the roster, we should have the financial power to exercise this, so we should. This wouldn't damage morale as such, cos competition should always be healthy in this environment, this could see an increase in effort from players that some people see as being lazy in any game? Finally we are in an okay position, people saying we shouldn't be losing games to the likes of Edinburgh is not fair, any team could beat any other team on any night, ideally we'd all like to see panthers win every game, but it doesn't happen in sport, so people should perhaps make their expectations more realistic? Especially since this is the closest the league has been for as long as I can remember, everyone is beating everyone, so ideally that should make it more entertaining and annoying at the same time! We are only a couple points off the top, and there's still half the season to go, and so anything can happen, people complaining about the team have to consider that if we cut a player or brought others in, what if they don't perform either?
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No 29
Jade Galbraith
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Post by No 29 on Dec 17, 2014 14:54:19 GMT
Someone has been doing plus/minuses!
PLUSES, Schmidt 3, Clarke 6, Lachowicz 9, Mosey 4, Berube 11, Parent 4, Lawrence 2, Farmer 0, Graham 0, Landry 15, Jacina 1, Lee 1, Wild 5, Higgins 3, Boxill 8, Robinson 4, Cownie 1, Betteridge 1, MINUSES, Benedict -3, Oakford -2
Have been jotting these down from highlights, missing about three away games (where there were no highlights) and there's errors built in because you can't always see definitely who was on the ice.
Benny obviously missed quite a few games and was a big minus on Sunday and home v Hull too.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Dec 17, 2014 15:34:47 GMT
Finally we are in an okay position, people saying we shouldn't be losing games to the likes of Edinburgh is not fair, any team could beat any other team on any night, ideally we'd all like to see panthers win every game, but it doesn't happen in sport, so people should perhaps make their expectations more realistic? I have a bit of a problem with this bit, not picking on you Caps (welcome to the forum btw) because it's a common comment on here. I don't think people always expect to win every week, or always beat teams like Edinburgh (OK, maybe a few do), but when you look at the circumstances of particular games we've had results that shouldn't be happening this season. Taking them as the example, if we were to go up there now and lose, given their decent run of form, getting a few players back from injury now, their barn, then OK we'd have to live with it, but back when we went up there and lost to them, the form book and their injuries said there'd only be one result, so of course we managed to lose. Similarly when Dundee came in to the NIC the other week, dreadful form, bottom of the league, quelle surprise they get a result. How many times do you drop a game you would expect to do well in, before it goes beyond just being dismissed as an outlier in the stats? You're right that we're still in a decent place and I agree the defence must be doing something right to be so miserly, so we don't need anything too drastic, but I don't like the "anyone can beat anyone" catch all for any negative result we suffer. Some nights team A should beat team B, and if they don't then questions need asking.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:06:20 GMT
Someone has been doing plus/minuses! PLUSES, Schmidt 3, Clarke 6, Lachowicz 9, Mosey 4, Berube 11, Parent 4, Lawrence 2, Farmer 0, Graham 0, Landry 15, Jacina 1, Lee 1, Wild 5, Higgins 3, Boxill 8, Robinson 4, Cownie 1, Betteridge 1, MINUSES, Benedict -3, Oakford -2 Have been jotting these down from highlights, missing about three away games (where there were no highlights) and there's errors built in because you can't always see definitely who was on the ice. Benny obviously missed quite a few games and was a big minus on Sunday and home v Hull too. Even with your suggestion of a margin of error, I am intrigued at Berube +11 and Landry +15, as these two players have come in for quite a bit of negative comment on here. (Landry also had three consecutive seasons in junior where he was a cumulative +106!)
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caps91
Jade Galbraith
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Post by caps91 on Dec 17, 2014 20:00:08 GMT
Finally we are in an okay position, people saying we shouldn't be losing games to the likes of Edinburgh is not fair, any team could beat any other team on any night, ideally we'd all like to see panthers win every game, but it doesn't happen in sport, so people should perhaps make their expectations more realistic? I have a bit of a problem with this bit, not picking on you Caps (welcome to the forum btw) because it's a common comment on here. I don't think people always expect to win every week, or always beat teams like Edinburgh (OK, maybe a few do), but when you look at the circumstances of particular games we've had results that shouldn't be happening this season. Taking them as the example, if we were to go up there now and lose, given their decent run of form, getting a few players back from injury now, their barn, then OK we'd have to live with it, but back when we went up there and lost to them, the form book and their injuries said there'd only be one result, so of course we managed to lose. Similarly when Dundee came in to the NIC the other week, dreadful form, bottom of the league, quelle surprise they get a result. How many times do you drop a game you would expect to do well in, before it goes beyond just being dismissed as an outlier in the stats? You're right that we're still in a decent place and I agree the defence must be doing something right to be so miserly, so we don't need anything too drastic, but I don't like the "anyone can beat anyone" catch all for any negative result we suffer. Some nights team A should beat team B, and if they don't then questions need asking. Thanks for the welcome yeah I get what you're saying, my comment just came through a bit vague I think, cos I totally agree that ideally in some cases the results have been odd, and we shouldn't lose. its more a case of sometimes you can have an off day and lose a game that were expected to win, Edinburgh and Dundee are generally regarded as lower teams of the league, so we should be winning the majority of the games home and away you'd think, but just saying sometimes form and league position and whatnot can mean nothing in the odd game and in regards to the comment about winning every game, it's obviously a matter of opinion, so obviously not everyone thinks along those lines, just some do, obviously opinion is split on every little thing about panthers, cos there will always be both sides to an argument, hence the people who defend panthers to all ends and the ones that want change immediately. In my opinion I see things I agree with on each side
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No 29
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 123
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Post by No 29 on Dec 18, 2014 0:42:26 GMT
Even with your suggestion of a margin of error, I am intrigued at Berube +11 and Landry +15, as these two players have come in for quite a bit of negative comment on here. (Landry also had three consecutive seasons in junior where he was a cumulative +106!) Stef, I think that one of the reasons Landry and Berube are so positive on the +/- is that they have been our only all import D partnership for most of the season. The pleasant surprise for me is how well Jonathan Boxill is doing at the moment.
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Dec 18, 2014 9:07:05 GMT
Someone has been doing plus/minuses! PLUSES, Schmidt 3, Clarke 6, Lachowicz 9, Mosey 4, Berube 11, Parent 4, Lawrence 2, Farmer 0, Graham 0, Landry 15, Jacina 1, Lee 1, Wild 5, Higgins 3, Boxill 8, Robinson 4, Cownie 1, Betteridge 1, MINUSES, Benedict -3, Oakford -2 Have been jotting these down from highlights, missing about three away games (where there were no highlights) and there's errors built in because you can't always see definitely who was on the ice. Benny obviously missed quite a few games and was a big minus on Sunday and home v Hull too. Is this all even strength goals or just all the goals? If it is just the even strength goals then top marks sir.
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Post by jdizpt8 on Dec 18, 2014 10:50:38 GMT
Bring back Rob Bellamy
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Dec 18, 2014 11:12:34 GMT
So long as he promises not to sing...
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Post by jdizpt8 on Dec 18, 2014 12:39:43 GMT
So long as he promises not to sing... I wouldn't mind if he did as long as he played how he did last time, bring Robinson back and Bellamy can sing whilst Robinson paints
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