Why Neil Black is the good guy in Panthers CHL adventure

[craigs]

Hi all

Just like to share a little ditty what I wrote in respect of the Panthers participation in this season's Champions Hockey League. I'll be down on Friday to watch the opening game, looking forward to it!

BLOG: Panthers' Mr Black is the good guy in CHL run march74.com/2014/08/18/panthers-mr-black-is-the-good-guy-in-chl-run/ #hockey

I think in this instance, Neil Black should be congratulated for not just entering the CHL but meeting the challenge with all guns blazing – committing significant sums of money and putting the name and reputation of the Nottingham Panthers on the line.

[bruinspanthers]

Wasn't aware of the five figure entry fee

[pantherman66]

Excellent read craigs, maybe that will alter a few people's attitude's towards the Panthers ventures into Europe.

[Doom]

From the off I've wondered what the end game is with regards to Panthers entry into this competition.

By all accounts it's going to be a costly exercise entering into this competition, so what does Mr Black hope to get out of it?

Is he perhaps looking longer term and hoping a good showing will get future entries into the competition, when it may become self funding with television rights and sponsorship or is he perhaps looking at the Panthers moving into some sort of European league in the future, where the standard of the hockey will undoubtedly be higher than the EIHL?

I've always been very much against the Steelers competing in European competitions, because over the years I've seen it do more harm than good. More often than not the competitions have been overseas, so the majority of the fanbase don't get to watch the games, but also it's lead to injuries and a more congested league schedule hampering our challenge for domestic trophies.

The domestic competitions are our bread and butter and a failure to challenge usually leads to a dip in attendances and ultimately financial difficulties in our case. The Panthers fanbase is certainly more robust, but even so, if competing in a competition like this was to hamper a title challenge, it would still inevitably impact on your long term attendances.

If the long term goal is some sort of European League, how would Panthers supporters feel about this, would you rather a much higher standard of hockey against teams from mainland Europe or would you prefer to stay as you are competing at a lesser level against the likes of Sheffield and Coventry?

I certainly know which I'd prefer, but it's not my team taking part in this competition.

Good luck by the way, I hope you put on a good show and hopefully shut up one or two of those on Twitter who seem to be mocking/questioning your credentials for being in this competition.

Regards

Doom

[Pies]

Aug 19, 2014 7:00:02 GMT Doom said:

From the off I've wondered what the end game is with regards to Panthers entry into this competition.

By all accounts it's going to be a costly exercise entering into this competition, so what does Mr Black hope to get out of it?

Is he perhaps looking longer term and hoping a good showing will get future entries into the competition, when it may become self funding with television rights and sponsorship or is he perhaps looking at the Panthers moving into some sort of European league in the future, where the standard of the hockey will undoubtedly be higher than the EIHL?

I've always been very much against the Steelers competing in European competitions, because over the years I've seen it do more harm than good. More often than not the competitions have been overseas, so the majority of the fanbase don't get to watch the games, but also it's lead to injuries and a more congested league schedule hampering our challenge for domestic trophies.

The domestic competitions are our bread and butter and a failure to challenge usually leads to a dip in attendances and ultimately financial difficulties in our case. The Panthers fanbase is certainly more robust, but even so, if competing in a competition like this was to hamper a title challenge, it would still inevitably impact on your long term attendances.

If the long term goal is some sort of European League, how would Panthers supporters feel about this, would you rather a much higher standard of hockey against teams from mainland Europe or would you prefer to stay as you are competing at a lesser level against the likes of Sheffield and Coventry?

I certainly know which I'd prefer, but it's not my team taking part in this competition.

Good luck by the way, I hope you put on a good show and hopefully shut up one or two of those on Twitter who seem to be mocking/questioning your credentials for being in this competition.

Regards

Doom

A title challenge or not has very little bearing on Panthers attendances in my experience. For example, Hull the first game of last season had an attendance of 4907 according to the EIHL game sheet:

www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/official-game-report.php?game_id=1621

And our last league game of the season, against Fife when the title was well and truly gone had an attendance of 5517 people - an increase of nearly 600 source : www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/official-game-report.php?game_id=1884

So your worries about our attendance are completely unfounded. This was after a run in the Continental cup as well which did really cost us with injuries. Panthers competing in this competition won't affect our attendances because we aren't as fickle as some would think.

[Doom]

Aug 19, 2014 8:52:33 GMT Pies said:

A title challenge or not has very little bearing on Panthers attendances in my experience. For example, Hull the first game of last season had an attendance of 4907 according to the EIHL game sheet:

www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/official-game-report.php?game_id=1621

And our last league game of the season, against Fife when the title was well and truly gone had an attendance of 5517 people - an increase of nearly 600 source : www.eliteleague.co.uk/stats/official-game-report.php?game_id=1884

So your worries about our attendance are completely unfounded. This was after a run in the Continental cup as well which did really cost us with injuries. Panthers competing in this competition won't affect our attendances because we aren't as fickle as some would think.

I did make the point that your attendances are more robust, but failure to be in a title race would undoubtedly impact on the number of paying customers, even though that impact would be less than for the likes of Belfast/Sheffield.

Regards

Doom

[tootootrain]

Aug 19, 2014 9:15:18 GMT Doom said:

I did make the point that your attendances are more robust, but failure to be in a title race would undoubtedly impact on the number of paying customers, even though that impact would be less than for the likes of Belfast/Sheffield.

Regards

Bizarre. Someone provides you with a solid counter-argument to your initial claim so you repeat it!

Panthers fans are not Steelers/Giants fans, we don't go a-running when things aren't going our way.

As for the article, whilst its not bad overall I think, by the way its written, it gives far too much credibility to the single source (DS the BS) vis-à-vis 'Steelers having second dibs' which runs counter to all the official source's version of events.

[Doom]

Aug 19, 2014 10:24:39 GMT tootootrain said:

Aug 19, 2014 9:15:18 GMT Doom said:

I did make the point that your attendances are more robust, but failure to be in a title race would undoubtedly impact on the number of paying customers, even though that impact would be less than for the likes of Belfast/Sheffield.

Regards

Bizarre. Someone provides you with a solid counter-argument to your initial claim so you repeat it!

Panthers fans are not Steelers/Giants fans, we don't go a-running when things aren't going our way.

As for the article, whilst its not bad overall I think, by the way its written, it gives far too much credibility to the single source (DS the BS) vis-à-vis 'Steelers having second dibs' which runs counter to all the official source's version of events.

Not bizarre at all.

When you won the league your final 3 home games were all sell-outs, including the last game against Cardiff.

How often in the past have you sold out games against teams other than Sheffield? - Quite clearly those sell-outs were as a result of you challenging for/winning the title.

Regards

Doom

[Deleted]

But then unlike sheffield the majority of Nottingham fans turn up regardless of sucess or not . Its common belief steelers fans turn up depending on how much hardware is in the cabinet and tbh theres not been a great deal the last few years

[Yotes]

I think our recent trophy haul certainly increased attendances, and I'm sure a few lean years would see it dip back down again - think what it was like before Neilson took over. We're in a bit of a golden age at the mo, I doubt we're as unusual as we'd sometimes like to believe.

[Doom]

Aug 19, 2014 11:09:44 GMT @pidge said:

But then unlike sheffield the majority of Nottingham fans turn up regardless of sucess or not . Its common belief steelers fans turn up depending on how much hardware is in the cabinet and tbh theres not been a great deal the last few years

Pidge, I've already acknowledged that Nottingham's crowds are less susceptible to fluctuations as a result of league standings, but the simple fact is the league standing will have some impact, even if it's less than with other clubs.

Regards

Doom

[Doom]

Aug 19, 2014 11:18:02 GMT Yotes said:

I think our recent trophy haul certainly increased attendances, and I'm sure a few lean years would see it dip back down again - think what it was like before Neilson took over. We're in a bit of a golden age at the mo, I doubt we're as unusual as we'd sometimes like to believe.

I think those in charge have done a very good job of increasing your fanbase, but without the success I don't think the growth would have been as rapid.

Regards

Doom

[BigLad]

Just a note about the original article...the EIHL clearly stated last season that going forward:

*The EIHL league champions would be the nominated team for the CHL.
*The Challenge Cup champions would be the nominated team for the Continental Cup.
*If the EIHL is unable to get a CHL wildcard, the EIHL league champions would go to the Continental Cup, replacing the Challenge Cup champions.

So why Sheffield would be asked to enter the CHL doesn't make any sense to me.

[spik]

Doom,

Regards your questioning of if we, as fans, would prefer domestic against Euro exploits.

I have always engaged into the traditional domestic system.Which in turn transforms some clubs through winning events into representation of that country to Europe.Always been against amalgamating teams from countries to arrive at a league that never resembles an area defined with borders as a country might.
But now that I am getting far more frustrated with poor management of competitions at 'home' can't really be that bothered to herald domestic any more.

Still not fussed with the team playing out of Elite in favour of Euro style clashes (bar these club tournaments due) yet the format of Cup, League and Play-Offs here is less exciting and I guess that is where the general fans thoughts, not interested in our history,lies.

[cjmatt42]

Aug 19, 2014 7:00:02 GMT Doom said:

If the long term goal is some sort of European League, how would Panthers supporters feel about this, would you rather a much higher standard of hockey against teams from mainland Europe or would you prefer to stay as you are competing at a lesser level against the likes of Sheffield and Coventry?

For me personally I hope this is the long term goal. I'd rather see the best quality of hockey available and as a forward thinking club in a generally backwards thinking league should probably be the long term aim. The problem seems to be convincing the walk up Saturday night punter that they will see a much better product hosting Lukko, Lulea etc than Sheffield, Belfast or Coventry. Unfortunately until that gap is bridged without the support of TV revenue etc from one of the European Leagues it is nothing more than a pipe dream.

In terms of rivalries I don't think it takes long to generate these in a game like hockey, watching some of the goings on in the Ingolstadt v Hamburg playoff series last year their league encounters I'm sure will be played with added spice this year when compared to normal and I'm sure this would be no different for Panthers.

Long term give me entry into the German League for example, Probably 25 home games against 15 different sides so less repetition and a decent playoff series to aim for first and then compete in. As I say a pipe dream with both the fanbase to convince and the Arena to be open to extended playoff series as just 2 initial stumbling blocks.

So back to the Champions League, an event I can't wait for and proud we can be part of. Hopefully the investment in additional players for this will give us a chance of keeping all 6 games reasonably competitive and maybe even nick an OT win somewhere. If we can do that we can be proud of our involvement and representation of the League as a whole and set the bar for Elite League representatives in future years.

[craigs]

Aug 19, 2014 12:00:14 GMT BigLad said:

Just a note about the original article...the EIHL clearly stated last season that going forward:

*The EIHL league champions would be the nominated team for the CHL.
*The Challenge Cup champions would be the nominated team for the Continental Cup.
*If the EIHL is unable to get a CHL wildcard, the EIHL league champions would go to the Continental Cup, replacing the Challenge Cup champions.

So why Sheffield would be asked to enter the CHL doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know for sure that Sheffield were or were not asked. Hence why I wrote "one source said..." There's no official statements that I can see to show the chain of events that have lead to Panthers taking the CHL berth. For now that's immaterial - Panthers are the Elite League's sole CHL representative, they've literally thrown the kitchen sink into it and I wish them well in the competition.

[iginla]

We all know why Panthers are in the CHL though,irrespective of who won what trophies last season.

Because,realistically they are the only EIHL team who can afford to be in it.

[Shorty]

Aug 19, 2014 13:59:30 GMT iginla said:

We all know why Panthers are in the CHL though,irrespective of who won what trophies last season.

Because,realistically they are the only EIHL team who can afford to be in it.

Perhaps if he had thrown his money around wantonly last season, as you were encouraging, we might not have been able to afford it this year......

[iginla]

Give over Shorty,the CHL hasn't cost us that much,not when you consider there are three extra home game revenues coming into the coffers,even if the crowds don't look like being too great.

With the exception of Robinson who would be too expensive,Panthers should have this roster EVERY season !

In fact take Robinson out of it and especially offensively,I don't actually think we have that much quality.

Looking at the various signings around the league,there have been at least 8 or 10 forwards that I would happily swop for any of ours this year.

[pantherdman]

Is there no prize money, tv or sponsorship money on offer for entering the chl? Why do the big European teams enter then?
The reason we are in Europe is because the elite league is the lowest common denominator and we have reached its limits. The potential future in a European competition will be much more lucrative long term.
I'm with iginla, bar Robinson, I'm not wow'ing over any of our signings tbh I think we should be attracting better quality for the chl.

I whole hartedly support us entering the chl as it is the only viable future IMO, I appreciate we may get humped this time but I also hope we shock a few. I have tickets for chl, no tickets for the elite league as yet. If the players exit after the chl and aren't replaced immediately like last season, I will exit also.

[Doom]

Aug 19, 2014 12:11:27 GMT cjmatt42 said:

Aug 19, 2014 7:00:02 GMT Doom said:

If the long term goal is some sort of European League, how would Panthers supporters feel about this, would you rather a much higher standard of hockey against teams from mainland Europe or would you prefer to stay as you are competing at a lesser level against the likes of Sheffield and Coventry?

For me personally I hope this is the long term goal. I'd rather see the best quality of hockey available and as a forward thinking club in a generally backwards thinking league should probably be the long term aim. The problem seems to be convincing the walk up Saturday night punter that they will see a much better product hosting Lukko, Lulea etc than Sheffield, Belfast or Coventry. Unfortunately until that gap is bridged without the support of TV revenue etc from one of the European Leagues it is nothing more than a pipe dream.

In terms of rivalries I don't think it takes long to generate these in a game like hockey, watching some of the goings on in the Ingolstadt v Hamburg playoff series last year their league encounters I'm sure will be played with added spice this year when compared to normal and I'm sure this would be no different for Panthers.

Long term give me entry into the German League for example, Probably 25 home games against 15 different sides so less repetition and a decent playoff series to aim for first and then compete in. As I say a pipe dream with both the fanbase to convince and the Arena to be open to extended playoff series as just 2 initial stumbling blocks.

So back to the Champions League, an event I can't wait for and proud we can be part of. Hopefully the investment in additional players for this will give us a chance of keeping all 6 games reasonably competitive and maybe even nick an OT win somewhere. If we can do that we can be proud of our involvement and representation of the League as a whole and set the bar for Elite League representatives in future years.

I'm not sure why, but I've never really been that enthusiastic when Steelers have competed in Europe. Obviously I want them to win, but given the choice between doing well in Europe and doing well in the EIHL, I'd take success in the EIHL every time.

If Steelers decided that Europe was the route to go at the expense of the domestic league, then I think I would start to lose interest, even if the quality of the hockey is higher.

I'd personally rather see Nottingham 8 times a season along with our other conference rivals, rather than a lot of European teams, many of whom I probably couldn't even find on a map.

Regards

Doom

[pingchowchi]

Well you get to see most of your conference rivals 10 times a season (with the cup games), and you get to see the Blaze twice more due to your preseason matches (lucky you)

Personally I am really looking forward to watching a couple of different teams this season, last season we had that run where we seemed to be playing the steelers every week and even 'the biggest rivaly in the multiverse' got a feel of groundhog day to it.

[kezypanther]

I agree how you can want to watch the same teams every week is beyond me. I was so bored of all the matches, us not being in the title race could have had a bearing on it but even then I went to the games thinking not these again.

Even though the continental cup imo had a strong influence on our injury list it was a great competition to be in and making it to the next stage was equally as exciting for us panthers fans. Why I can't see us getting a win in the CHL I'd much rather watch these than Steelers, Blaze or Giants for the 2000th time this season.

[tootootrain]

Aug 20, 2014 11:38:13 GMT pingchowchi said:

....last season we had that run where we seemed to be playing the steelers every week and even 'the biggest rivaly in the multiverse' got a feel of groundhog day to it.

I'm sure I'm not the only Panthers fan who thinks the "Milky Way's Biggest Rivalry" got tiresome many season ago.

I still contest that, for regular fans, games with Coventry are looked forward to more, as the rivalry with them seems more genuine than the increasingly 'forced' war of PR spiel with Sheffield.

[Rob Scott]

Aug 20, 2014 12:14:21 GMT tootootrain said:

Aug 20, 2014 11:38:13 GMT pingchowchi said:

....last season we had that run where we seemed to be playing the steelers every week and even 'the biggest rivaly in the multiverse' got a feel of groundhog day to it.

I'm sure I'm not the only Panthers fan who thinks the "Milky Way's Biggest Rivalry" got tiresome many season ago.

I still contest that, for regular fans, games with Coventry are looked forward to more, as the rivalry with them seems more genuine than the increasingly 'forced' war of PR spiel with Sheffield.

The Steelers rivalry could take a step up this season.

Now that they have won a trophy a guess that there fans may be back to more like usual. Also they seem to have a few wind up merchants in the roster this year so the games could be a bit more on edge.