Shorty
Paul Adey
Still here for Private Messages
Posts: 6,636
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Post by Shorty on Mar 13, 2014 18:26:40 GMT
You are forgetting Neickar suckerpunched him EIGHT times.
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Ian
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,702
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Post by Ian on Mar 13, 2014 18:35:12 GMT
the word Kindergarten springs to mind when reading some of these posts. the sucker punch in Schulte/Nieckar incident was aimed by Nieckar at the back of Schulte's head whilst was fighting another opponent. If some of you on here cannot see that as a sucker punch I do really despair for you. But of course no Panthers fans would ever complain if it happened in reverse would they First, let's add a bit of context, the reason the original fight was happening was that Paxton Schulte went after Kris Taubert (who despite his size was not a fighter or enforcer) after the final hooter in a game that contained loads of filthy play from both teams. So the Giants were not exactly innocent victims in a dastardly Nottingham plot. Not that this justifies what Barry did, it was a clear sucker punch, don't think anybody who has seen the video would deny it. The thing that people find bizarre is that so much has been made of it, at the time and still all these years later. I've been watching hockey for 35 years and have seen similar or worse incidents several times in each of those seasons, on and by players from my team, it is a part of hockey whether we like it or not. However, I (and most fans of teams other than Belfast probably) have forgotten most of those incidents, not dwelt on them for a decade or more and tried to use them to stir up hatred and create fake rivalries and bitterness with fans of other teams. The fact is, the entire thing is a massive over-reaction to a fairly commonplace pro hockey incident. As far as I can see, it just makes Giants fans look petty and rather silly. And also, more seriously, runs the risk of propping up some unfortunate stereotypes about attitudes of people in Northern Ireland. In fact, that latter reason is why I am amazed anyone involved with the Giants as an organisation will have anything to do with it.
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Post by pantherdman on Mar 13, 2014 18:46:15 GMT
Every team in the league love to hate on the panthers simply because they are envious. Who cares? Let them get on with it. I don't particularly like some Sheffield and blaze fans but the rest meh! I just want to win the game and get the points by any means necessary. It's just funny some of the bile and hatred directed at the panthers, I don't really see any other explanation for it as we are a soft as .... Org really.
As for the video incident, there's like half a cheap shot in there, tough guy trying to defend a non fighter. No one really was injured, our player got banned. Like I say, no explanation.
Viva la hate.
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Post by Spoonerdudes on Mar 13, 2014 19:11:36 GMT
Every team in the league love to hate on the panthers simply because they are envious. Who cares? Let them get on with it. I don't particularly like some Sheffield and blaze fans but the rest meh! I just want to win the game and get the points by any means necessary. It's just funny some of the bile and hatred directed at the panthers, I don't really see any other explanation for it as we are a soft as .... Org really. As for the video incident, there's like half a cheap shot in there, tough guy trying to defend a non fighter. No one really was injured, our player got banned. Like I say, no explanation. Viva la hate. Want that hammer and three nails now ?
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kgw
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 181
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Post by kgw on Mar 13, 2014 19:23:30 GMT
lol "this Paxton guy". I did wonder after your 'delicate flower' comment. Paxton Schulte is considered to be one of the best enforcers to play in this league. Is he really? Who says? Most who are not giants fans think he was a joke!! I'm not a Giants fan but I thought he was fairly respected in his role as 'enforcer'. I was much younger when he was around and I didn't follow it as I do now but I remember him being a nuisance and never being one to back down. He got a fair few goals as well didn't he?
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Post by tootootrain on Mar 13, 2014 19:30:27 GMT
Having no connection to British hockey at all before 2005ish I must say I'm quite amazed at how such a minor incident has led to the continued usage of fairly inflammatory, in the circumstances, language such as "never forgive, never forget" and seems to be the almost sole basis for an extremely one-sided 'hatred'. This though isn't what has peaked my interest in this thread. No my interest was peaked by the use of the term "serious concussion" in relation to the alleged injuries sustained by Schulte.
As someone who works in Critical Care I'm always wary of 'fans' quoting such terminology, especially when, from the evidence available, it doesn't appear that the alleged injuries match up.
"Serious Concussion" is generally considered a concussion graded at grade III under either the Cantu or Colorado scales. Given that Schulte appears to skate off the ice relatively unaided in the footage provided in this thread I'd suggest there is little to no chance that he suffered "serious concussion" as under both scales such a conclusion would have required a period of immediate unconsciousness, followed up by occurrences of amnesia.
To switch away from my professional side now, the fact that it seems so much 'hatred' is attached to what was really an unremarkable incident fairly well underlines the pathetic nature of this one-way hate-fest and indeed its continued trotting out perhaps undermines the reputation it seems some hold for Schulte. Apparently he is/was a 'hard man', yet it seems that some Belfast fans hold onto a belief that this incident, one in which he suffered no serious injury, was seemingly a major incident in his career and thus one worthy of building a fiction around with which to try and create a rivalry.
Rivalries need to form naturally. Trying to force one into being in an attempt to be anything other than the 'grey man' team of British hockey will undoubtedly fail, or at most lead to what 'we' have (a one-sided obsession) because its built on easily undermined foundations with very little substance.
Well done for winning the league BTW.
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dp
Jim Keyes
Posts: 966
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Post by dp on Mar 13, 2014 19:34:44 GMT
Yeah, as Ian says, the incident was started by Shane Johnson squaring up to Panthers captain John Purves AFTER THE FINAL HOOTER and yapping at him whilst forcing him all the way from centre ice to the corner, where the video kicks in.
Nieckar, Clarke and Wood had been after Schulte all game and he'd refused to go anywhere near them - and then Schulte starts a fight with non-fighter (never fought in the UK before, and only 5 times in his career before this incident according to DYG) Taubert - although, as the video shows, Taubert is definitely the more aggressive once Schulte starts things.
My two comments on this - firstly I was annoyed with Nieckar because I think Taubert was about to teach Schulte a serious lesson (I think the reason Nieckar did what he did was because he was worried Taubert was well out his depth), and, secondly, I really, really miss players like Schulte and Nieckar! They're exactly what the league misses now. I dread to think how many games they'd be banned for each season though.
Schulte wasn't injured by this. He pretended to be, but that was part of his "pantomime villian" act. I remember him pretending to be injured after a short fight with Clayton Norris at Nottingham. Hated it at the time, but would love to see some characters like him now. He'd be a very, very good player in the Elite league but, as I say, would probably be banned pretty much constantly.
Imagine now if Farmer chased after Sandrock at the final whistle, and then Henley started fighting Elfring, all in front of Keefe. Would you expect Keefe to stand back? I'd hope not, or he's not doing his job.
I find it hilarious that Belfast fans are still bitter about it - or, at least, pretending to be - this sort of thing used to happen all the time!
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by yeti on Mar 14, 2014 13:01:50 GMT
Having spoke to Barry after this altercation and asking him why he jumped in he thought that Christian was out of his depth and although he was doing ok in the fight Barry thought he would eventually lose it. What also peed of all the Panthers players was that Barry, Dody, Alison, Clarke and Brian Thompson had all offered Paxton a fight that night and yet at the end he choose to go with a non fighter. Hardly a classy act.
I also knew Paxton as well and he was a real character and would happily say he was hurt if it helped his team. He was good for Belfast in their early days as he said the right things to the press to get people hooked on the sport and the circus surrounding this incident was all part of doing that. Dave whistle knew from their Bracknell days together that Paxton was a great player to take to Belfast with him. He also had a lot of time for the fans which helped to build the Giants fan base at the time. He was also a cheeky player who often cheap shoted other players himself and would have done exactly the same as Barry did that night to protect a team mate.
The fact Belfast fans still have this incident engraved on their brains showed what a good job Paxton did. He was also a very good goal scorer.
Anyone who says that Henley is not a real tough guy and doesn't stick to the so called code has not watched much hockey. As Ian says these incidents have always happened. Most of the video footage I see these days of so called shocking incidents that people are getting worked up about, I usually watch and think is that it.
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Post by texpef on Mar 14, 2014 13:12:23 GMT
Perfectly put Yeti... what bugged me that game was that we had such a tough team that Giants so called hardman could have fought with if he wanted "to go", yet he chose to pick a fight at the end of the game with a scandanavian player not known for his "toughness"...
Great season and if i am not mistaken good for bums on seats in Nottingham but so so much in the trophy department..think Adey learnt alot from that season shame we didnt persevere with him as coach as we have done with CN.
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 423
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Post by yeti on Mar 14, 2014 13:21:15 GMT
Agree with you Tex, Adey did learn a lot that year and was also disappointed that the team didn't achieve more as he thought it had everything. Goal scorers, good netminding and lots of toughness. I think Neil Black regretted getting rid of Paul and bringing Blaiser back a few years later.
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Post by texpef on Mar 14, 2014 15:58:23 GMT
To be honest Yeti thought that Blaiser had the rug pulled from under him with the departure and then poor replacement of Tessier. Tess was on target to be the best player in a league that included theo Fleury when he left and the lack of a sufficient replacement crippled our chances of competing that season imho...
highlights of the season was carryon gags regarding the replacements name and the evening with blaiser and McSorely and apart from the rough stuff that was about it as far as i can remember...
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beeks3
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 36
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Post by beeks3 on Mar 14, 2014 17:01:38 GMT
Having spoke to Barry after this altercation and asking him why he jumped in he thought that Christian was out of his depth and although he was doing ok in the fight Barry thought he would eventually lose it. What also peed of all the Panthers players was that Barry, Dody, Alison, Clarke and Brian Thompson had all offered Paxton a fight that night and yet at the end he choose to go with a non fighter. Hardly a classy act. I also knew Paxton as well and he was a real character and would happily say he was hurt if it helped his team. He was good for Belfast in their early days as he said the right things to the press to get people hooked on the sport and the circus surrounding this incident was all part of doing that. Dave whistle knew from their Bracknell days together that Paxton was a great player to take to Belfast with him. He also had a lot of time for the fans which helped to build the Giants fan base at the time. He was also a cheeky player who often cheap shoted other players himself and would have done exactly the same as Barry did that night to protect a team mate. The fact Belfast fans still have this incident engraved on their brains showed what a good job Paxton did. He was also a very good goal scorer. Anyone who says that Henley is not a real tough guy and doesn't stick to the so called code has not watched much hockey. As Ian says these incidents have always happened. Most of the video footage I see these days of so called shocking incidents that people are getting worked up about, I usually watch and think is that it. certainly the toughest in the league and a genuine tough guy, but beating on a player while he is on the ice is not generally the done thing by the fighter's so have to disagree with that particular point. and i am not sure what hockey you have been watching but that is more rare than normal.
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 423
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Post by yeti on Mar 14, 2014 20:33:18 GMT
As Ian said every year there are a couple of these incidents. So not every game but also not rare. The Barry incident in Belfast where he was stripped to the waist was a lot more uncommon and still is. If anything hitting players when they were down use to happen a bit more than now. Even players sitting on other players throwing punches at them. I remember Slater from London sitting on Dody Wood throwing punches until Dody throw a punch that knocked Slater off of him. No big stink about breaking any so called code and only 2 mins for Dody and 2+2 for Slater.
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Post by Markus on Mar 15, 2014 2:11:45 GMT
Not seen that video in ages - as Ive always said, there is only one #44!
Barry Neikar, Dody Wood, Scott Alison, Jason Clarke and Christisn Taubert, dear Lord what a team that was. They would run rings around anything on the ice these days. As for those days, we didn't win anything, but my goodness, it was entertaining :-)
As for the original subject of the thread Mr Henley, get rid, don't invite back! Waste of space and a crushing liability. Think the refs are picking on you? Well stop taking the pi$$ out of them then, and perhaps they will stop.
And while we are at it, in reference to last week at Braehead, when the ref says stop, one lino says stop and the other is wrestling with you on the floor - Stop! Idiotic play, gave The Clan exactly what they wanted, our big defender off the ice for almost the entire game.
Just my opinion of course :-)
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 423
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Post by yeti on Mar 15, 2014 11:55:00 GMT
Marcus you forgot Brian Thompson, Eric Charron (one of the toughest on the team who never even got to fight) and Mark Hussey. All more than capable of throwing their weight around. One hell of a big D that year.
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,616
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Post by Mark on Mar 17, 2014 20:17:37 GMT
Belfast Giants fans, eternally one eyed and lacking in the memory department. Paxton Schulte was a filthy, cheapshotting hairy bum who got exactly what he dished out. As for the congratulations about winning the league, are they serious? Rewind twelve months, you should be able to taste the bitterness.
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Post by NotMartinTuma on Mar 17, 2014 20:53:41 GMT
I've not seen that particular incident before but the way a few (not all, don't forget) Giants fans bleat on about it I was expecting Barry run him over with a zamboni or something. Pax does not even seem fazed by the shots to the back of the head and I actually give him credit for remaining focused on his own fight. Okay Barry went too far but in those days there was a plethora of players who seemed to have genuine rivalries and hatred for each other and it could have been any of a number of players who would jump someone from behind.
Re the forgive/forget brigade, it just seems to me a desparate cry for attention when really they should be celebrating having by far the best team in every department this season, bitterness has reared its ugly head.
Oh and congratulations to the Giants and especially Paul Adey.
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