Retire No #77!!

[cooperphil156]

The obvious question to be asked is with regard mainly to the playing point of view. If as a coach CN had not won trophies would you retire the shirt?

[Dan]

It wouldn't even be discussed.

[pantherman66]

Believe me it has been discussed, Girouxalem you obviously don't like the guy, but without his points alone, I very much doubt we would have won the amount of silverware we have whilst Neilson has been playing for us.

[Dan]

I didn't like him much as a player, but I've never insinuated I don't like him as a person thank you.

If Neilson hadn't won a trophy as a coach, the number retirement wouldn't even be thought of. Surely you can't deny that?

[sambo79]

He's a player coach.

[ted logan]

Mar 20, 2013 11:19:48 GMT Dan said:

I didn't like him much as a player, but I've never insinuated I don't like him as a person thank you.

If Neilson hadn't won a trophy as a coach, the number retirement wouldn't even be thought of. Surely you can't deny that?

A trophy? Three challenge cups on the bounce; 2 play-offs and the League Title? I think you do his services as our coach a massive dis-service there.

If he'd just won "a trophy" the same as Ellis (who didn't have the player career with Panthers that CN has/had) then you're right, it wouldn't be thought of. But how many coaches have tried and failed to deliver THE trophy, the holy grail? I don't know - 10 maybe? He (CN) has delivered the ultimate prize where others failed and that on top of the other trophies and the distinguished playing career make him worthy of whatever accolades come his way.

[Yotes]

You can't retire a number based on coaching achievements though, surely? You have to separate the two. If in the future we have a guy who is only ever bench coach, and wins everything for several years, what does he get?


Just to add, I'm not saying he shouldn't get it, just that we should judge him on his playing career, so with that in mind his stats as a player (per EliteProspects):

Reg. Season: Between 2006 and 2013 - 352 games, 75 goals and 260 Assists for 335 points.
(Postseason: 21, 3 + 12 for 15)

Titles:
1 League - 2013 (Played 9 games)
4 CC - 2007/08, 2009/10, 2010/11, 2011/12
3 PO - 2006/07, 2010/11. 2011/12

[cooperphil156]

One point comments have been made about the large number number of games played by some former players. With the revolving doors in the current ice hockey set up, I cant see people getting near those sort of games played.

[ted logan]

Mar 20, 2013 11:31:45 GMT Yotes said:

You can't retire a number based on coaching achievements though, surely? You have to separate the two. If in the future we have a guy who is only ever bench coach, and wins everything for several years, what does he get?


Just to add, I'm not saying he shouldn't get it, just that we should judge him on his playing career, so with that in mind his stats as a player (per EliteProspects):

Reg. Season: Between 2006 and 2013 - 352 games, 75 goals and 260 Assists for 335 points.
(Postseason: 21, 3 + 12 for 15)

Titles:
1 League - 2013 (Played 9 games)
4 CC - 2007/08, 2009/10, 2010/11, 2011/12
3 PO - 2006/07, 2010/11. 2011/12

I agree that it's difficult to retire a shirt just for a coach.

However as CN has served the club so well as player, then player/coach, then coach he is more than worthy IMHO.

Bear in mind also that Giroux said:-

Let's look at Chick Zamick shall we? The man played for us for over a decade and to my knowledge finished as top points scorer every single year. He got over 150 points in one season! He's still our second highest point scorer of all time. He then took over as coach and won the treble including (up until last week) our last league triumph.

They haven't retired Zamick's number.

So Zamick as a player then player/coach that coached us to the league title is worthy but CN isn't?

Neilson (same as Zamick) contributed greatly both on and off the ice. Maybe his greater achievements have been at coach, but he has a shirt by virtue of his playing days - why not retire it?

[BigLad]

Where's the Corey & Rick statue going to go? :-)

[Yotes]

Mar 20, 2013 12:07:02 GMT ted logan said:

So Zamick as a player then player/coach that coached us to the league title is worthy but CN isn't?

In '56, Zamick played, coincidentally, 56 games, 62+73=135. I guess that'd be the difference - he won the league (the treble in fact) as much as a player as coach (I know CN played a bit at the start but not much).

Again, not saying CN's 7 seasons (or whatever it is) are undeserving, just seeing where Giroux is coming from.

As an aside, the club should do a lot more to honour guys like Zamick, and Neilson, who have achieved a great deal for us, however they can do it. It's a failing of the club IMO. When newbies come into the NIC they should see those names and get to find out about them.

[Dan]

Mar 20, 2013 11:28:34 GMT ted logan said:

A trophy? Three challenge cups on the bounce; 2 play-offs and the League Title? I think you do his services as our coach a massive dis-service there.

Eh? I was saying that if he hadn't won a single trophy he wouldn't even be considered. Think you misconstrued what I was saying.

If he'd just won "a trophy" the same as Ellis (who didn't have the player career with Panthers that CN has/had) then you're right, it wouldn't be thought of. But how many coaches have tried and failed to deliver THE trophy, the holy grail? I don't know - 10 maybe? He (CN) has delivered the ultimate prize where others failed and that on top of the other trophies and the distinguished playing career make him worthy of whatever accolades come his way.

Yes, but that's as a coach. He's been a sensational coach, one of (if not THE) best ever. You don't retire playing numbers for coaches though.

Is there a Panthers HOF?

[Yotes]

Sort of: panthers.co.uk/content/all-time-greats

[Dan]

If we had a proper HOF then i'd have no problem with him being in it.

[ted logan]

Mar 20, 2013 13:16:04 GMT Yotes said:

Mar 20, 2013 12:07:02 GMT ted logan said:

So Zamick as a player then player/coach that coached us to the league title is worthy but CN isn't?

In '56, Zamick played, coincidentally, 56 games, 62+73=135. I guess that'd be the difference - he won the league (the treble in fact) as much as a player as coach (I know CN played a bit at the start but not much).

Again, not saying CN's 7 seasons (or whatever it is) are undeserving, just seeing where Giroux is coming from.

As an aside, the club should do a lot more to honour guys like Zamick, and Neilson, who have achieved a great deal for us, however they can do it. It's a failing of the club IMO. When newbies come into the NIC they should see those names and get to find out about them.

Totally agree that the heritage/history of the club is something that Panthers should really make more of.

I've agreed with Giroux on this very thread about Zamick - my old man still talks about him (Zamick not Giroux) in glowing terms along with the likes of Strongman. There are so many previous players/legends whose contribution seems to go virtually un-noticed.

If the only way to get recognition from the club is by having your shirt retired, then CN (irrespective of how many games he played this year) deserves it as much as previous recipients.

Maybe a HOF is the answer?

[ted logan]

Mar 20, 2013 13:27:10 GMT Dan said:

Mar 20, 2013 11:28:34 GMT ted logan said:

A trophy? Three challenge cups on the bounce; 2 play-offs and the League Title? I think you do his services as our coach a massive dis-service there.

Eh? I was saying that if he hadn't won a single trophy he wouldn't even be considered. Think you misconstrued what I was saying.

If he'd just won "a trophy" the same as Ellis (who didn't have the player career with Panthers that CN has/had) then you're right, it wouldn't be thought of. But how many coaches have tried and failed to deliver THE trophy, the holy grail? I don't know - 10 maybe? He (CN) has delivered the ultimate prize where others failed and that on top of the other trophies and the distinguished playing career make him worthy of whatever accolades come his way.

Yes, but that's as a coach. He's been a sensational coach, one of (if not THE) best ever. You don't retire playing numbers for coaches though.

Is there a Panthers HOF?

I've stated that already; that it's difficult to retire a number for a bench coach (without a Panthers playing career) - unless you retire a suit and tie?

Neilson has his Panthers playing career to back up his achievements as coach though. As a player, his achievements alone aren't enough but combine them with his achievements as (first) player coach then coach and what more could he have given?

Maybe a Panthers HOF is the answer?

[NotMartinTuma]

Maybe not retire the jersey yet, but how about re-naming the challenge cup the Corey cup?

[rs17]

Mar 20, 2013 13:05:34 GMT BigLad said:

Where's the Corey & Rick statue going to go? :-)

Smiley or not I think this may be the way to go, sort of anyway. What if the supporters had a collection and commisioned a bronze bust of Cory to be placed in the NIC? Gets the recognition we all seem to think he deserves without bringing in the player/coach issue of shirt retiring.

(hope bust is the right word, not 100% on that )

[pantheruk]

And so it has been
Well deserved!!

[Flying Viking]

I believe the reason they can't retire Zamick's number is that he didn't have "a" number. He had a few. So which one do you retire?

And congratulations to Corey. The honour is due in my opinion.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using proboards

[Yotes]

76 and 77, Viking

But anyway, congratulations Corey, clearly meant a lot to him too.

[jd]

Deserved, quality player, quality coach.

[Pies]

Personally, I think Corey's name deserves to be up there with the greats. He deserves all the plaudits he gets and people will never forget him.

[panthertom93]

Fully deserved and I was so proud of the club for doing it.

[spik]

HoF of players is a better idea to include long servants like Fraser and oldies like Westman.
Always been against retirements and this debate is another reason why.