Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 25, 2011 0:52:35 GMT
Can we even believe these claimed attendances? How can what looks like an unofficial fan page have full attendance stats when the official Steelers website and the EIHL website don't? When some of the figures are missing from the official game sheets? It is interesting to note that the Steelers only publish some attendance figures, and that they are all on the higher end of the scale... if they can publish some attendances, why not all? There are only 2 reasons for not publishing the figures - being unable to do so or being unwilling to do so. Quite obviously they are able to publish... so that only leaves a deliberate choice not to publish. Why? Only one explanation makes sense - the figures aren't good enough. That, plus the constant avoidance of the question of how much of the attendance is made up of freebies (I've heard everything from "a couple of dozen" from one delusional type to "several hundred") paints a worrying picture. Because we simply cannot believe club PRs from the Steelers, nor the oh-so-confidently-definitive claims of Steelers fans. Both have proven to be wildly inaccurate - if not outright lies - too many times in the past. But no... let's just deflect attention from a genuine area of concern by trying to make out that we're the ones obsessed with the other (pot, kettle?).  |
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Post by elliottstanley on Dec 25, 2011 11:46:21 GMT
The stats for those Euro games are shocking, I am surprised that the teams in Denmark can afford to run, I imagine all there players are part time and play for free! On the contrary, very good remuneration for players in Denmark. Attendances aren't great but tv money helps. |
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shinobi
Randall Weber
Forum Dictator
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Post by shinobi on Dec 25, 2011 18:26:50 GMT
Congratulation Panthers you never fail to disappoint the Steelers with your classy comments. It takes so little to make you happy. Its so sad to be that desperate! Well done to the Cardiff Devils! Yes, treat all Panthers' fans with same brush. Fail. |
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Post by robbo2306 on Dec 25, 2011 22:41:30 GMT
Can we even believe these claimed attendances? How can what looks like an unofficial fan page have full attendance stats when the official Steelers website and the EIHL website don't? When some of the figures are missing from the official game sheets? It is interesting to note that the Steelers only publish some attendance figures, and that they are all on the higher end of the scale... if they can publish some attendances, why not all? There are only 2 reasons for not publishing the figures - being unable to do so or being unwilling to do so. Quite obviously they are able to publish... so that only leaves a deliberate choice not to publish. Why? Only one explanation makes sense - the figures aren't good enough. That, plus the constant avoidance of the question of how much of the attendance is made up of freebies (I've heard everything from "a couple of dozen" from one delusional type to "several hundred") paints a worrying picture. Because we simply cannot believe club PRs from the Steelers, nor the oh-so-confidently-definitive claims of Steelers fans. Both have proven to be wildly inaccurate - if not outright lies - too many times in the past. But no... let's just deflect attention from a genuine area of concern by trying to make out that we're the ones obsessed with the other (pot, kettle?). The only place our attendances are a concern is on here. Tony Smith has funded changes to the team due to the increase in "paying" people through the door. You only have to listen to the recent interview with him on Radio Sheffield to see how we are doing. He says it's hard work every single day to keep the club going but people are coming through the doors, merchandise is flying off the shelves and sponsorship is better than ever. We'll get through this season and will be in a much better position next year with added season ticket money. Whether you believe those attendance stats is completely up to you, but after going to 90% of those games, I'd say they are not far off. After going for 20 years I think I'm quite a good judge of how full the arena is. As for the "hate" only being nurtured in Sheffield, let's just say your lot put plenty of "hate" our way before you got involved watching the Panthers Dave. |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 25, 2011 23:29:53 GMT
Can we even believe these claimed attendances? How can what looks like an unofficial fan page have full attendance stats when the official Steelers website and the EIHL website don't? When some of the figures are missing from the official game sheets? It is interesting to note that the Steelers only publish some attendance figures, and that they are all on the higher end of the scale... if they can publish some attendances, why not all? There are only 2 reasons for not publishing the figures - being unable to do so or being unwilling to do so. Quite obviously they are able to publish... so that only leaves a deliberate choice not to publish. Why? Only one explanation makes sense - the figures aren't good enough. That, plus the constant avoidance of the question of how much of the attendance is made up of freebies (I've heard everything from "a couple of dozen" from one delusional type to "several hundred") paints a worrying picture. Because we simply cannot believe club PRs from the Steelers, nor the oh-so-confidently-definitive claims of Steelers fans. Both have proven to be wildly inaccurate - if not outright lies - too many times in the past. But no... let's just deflect attention from a genuine area of concern by trying to make out that we're the ones obsessed with the other (pot, kettle?). The only place our attendances are a concern is on here. You obviously don't read THF then... (Haven't looked on other team forum sites). Are you telling me that you don't find the on-again-off-again attendance stats somewhat suspicious? Come on - effectively your club are lying to you (and everyone else)... on a subject which is absolutely crucial. Maybe that's true. Maybe. There were interviews with Bob/Mariani Phillips and Paul Ragan as well, weren't there? Oops... On the face of it, Tony Smith seems to be an improvement upon previous owners... but if there's one thing that experience should have taught everyone by now - you can never take 'good' news re the Steelers at face value. Hopefully that's true. Maybe it even is true. Who knows? Believable? - see above. Perhaps... but how many are paying customers? Another crucial fact that keeps getting glossed over... all these little inconvenient factors, dear oh dear... Come on... what's gone up your way is a mere fraction of what we've received from the Steelers hate machine. And remember - it was a deliberately-planned and totally artificial creation, merely to whip up some frenzy amongst the Steelers' supporters. There may be some good people within the Steelers organisation itself... frankly I don't know. There are some good people within the fanbase (I know some of them)... and at times, I actually feel sorry for them. Because those exceptions aside... when it comes to PR, relationships with others (especially us), business ethics, etc... the Sheffield Steelers Ice Hockey Club is no more than a cesspit. None of the rest of us is perfect, nowhere near... but none come even close to the depths to which the Steelers have sunk. People in Sheffield can ignore it, deny it, try to deflect attention from it all they like - it changes nothing. The only change can come from within - and there is obviously no will to do so. So a cesspit the club remains. It's as plain and as simple as that. |
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Post by chris22 on Dec 26, 2011 9:15:11 GMT
I don't want to repeat what I've said before. I'm probably one of the most suspicious Steelers fans when it comes to owners...since I've been a fan Tony Smith is our 6th owner!
We can argue about recorded attendance figures and how many freebies there are...reality is we don't know the exact figures. What I see with my own eyes is:
- crowds are definitely up - how many are freebies, who knows, but it feels like paying fans is up.
- sponsorship is up
- 50/50 - have a good laugh, but will bring in c.£20k more than last year.
- merchandise - apparently making the club thousands of pounds a week...should see people on match nights...
He's made a good start...I'm always probing for whether the club is profitable/sustainable...his interview the other day was positive...they're maximising every possible revenue stream and costs are considerable lower...our roster looks considerably cheaper...we lost Dowd and Simon and didn't come close to like for like replacement, the office staff are two less. Key for me, and I mentioned the other week, he's playing to his strengths in regards to merchandise.
Looks like a 8,000 crowd will be there today. With all the secondary spend on club items, he'll be making £100k+ from one game.
Key for me is now we've flown through the key period up to Christmas, when people wonder whether we'll survive, are the crowds going to pick up as you'd expect?
If the Steelers got back to 4,000 paying punters a week, plus maximised all available revenue streams, there's no doubt in my mind that it becomes a very profitable organisation. With limited capital outlay required, there's no surprise there's always a new owner fancing a go...so far though, no one has managed to reverse the decline.
Chris
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Post by spik on Dec 26, 2011 11:31:44 GMT
As soon as it's been spent, will there be any for this 'healthy' next season?
Thousands of pounds on merchandise a week?
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Post by robbo2306 on Dec 26, 2011 15:02:22 GMT
The only place our attendances are a concern is on here. You obviously don't read THF then... (Haven't looked on other team forum sites). Are you telling me that you don't find the on-again-off-again attendance stats somewhat suspicious? Come on - effectively your club are lying to you (and everyone else)... on a subject which is absolutely crucial. Maybe that's true. Maybe. There were interviews with Bob/Mariani Phillips and Paul Ragan as well, weren't there? Oops... On the face of it, Tony Smith seems to be an improvement upon previous owners... but if there's one thing that experience should have taught everyone by now - you can never take 'good' news re the Steelers at face value. Hopefully that's true. Maybe it even is true. Who knows? Believable? - see above. Perhaps... but how many are paying customers? Another crucial fact that keeps getting glossed over... all these little inconvenient factors, dear oh dear... Come on... what's gone up your way is a mere fraction of what we've received from the Steelers hate machine. And remember - it was a deliberately-planned and totally artificial creation, merely to whip up some frenzy amongst the Steelers' supporters. There may be some good people within the Steelers organisation itself... frankly I don't know. There are some good people within the fanbase (I know some of them)... and at times, I actually feel sorry for them. Because those exceptions aside... when it comes to PR, relationships with others (especially us), business ethics, etc... the Sheffield Steelers Ice Hockey Club is no more than a cesspit. None of the rest of us is perfect, nowhere near... but none come even close to the depths to which the Steelers have sunk. People in Sheffield can ignore it, deny it, try to deflect attention from it all they like - it changes nothing. The only change can come from within - and there is obviously no will to do so. So a cesspit the club remains. It's as plain and as simple as that. To be honest Dave, I really don't know how you can accuse other people of hate when your post above is simply full of it. Your post has even got a rise on Steeltalk. Would you like to say what we have actually done this year to upset you so much that makes you think we will never change? I really don't care what we have done in the past, there is nothing that me or you can do about that. It's what we do in the future that matters now. And tbh, anything I've seen in hockey over the last 20 years pales in insignificance to the stuff I've seen following Sheffield Wednesday home and away for near on 40 years. |
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Post by kezypanther on Dec 26, 2011 16:26:49 GMT
How do they not have attendance figures when they have electronic scanners at the arena ? Or do they only use them at Nottingham games ?
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abi
Jim Keyes
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Post by abi on Dec 26, 2011 16:29:40 GMT
As soon as it's been spent, will there be any for this 'healthy' next season? Thousands of pounds on merchandise a week? I could well imagine - jerseys aren't cheap and if they charge extra for a replica player jersey/name and number printing its an easy earner. I'd imagine Jerseys to be the single most popular item sold but I could be wrong. Then after that it depends entirely on what they stock and whether people are happy to pay what they're asking for it. Since i've never been to a Steelers home game, I don't know what they stock and what the price range is, but I would imagine they have little bits and bobs that cost less, clothing like tshirts, tracksuits, jackets etc, DVDs (maybe?)... The potential with merchandise is endless, if you have the right people working on it. |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 26, 2011 22:48:50 GMT
To be honest Dave, I really don't know how you can accuse other people of hate when your post above is simply full of it. Your post has even got a rise on Steeltalk. Wow. I've got a mention on Steeltalk. My life is complete... As I've said before - I don't hate the Steelers. I'm simply sick and tired of all the crap we get from them, all of the lies and spin and rubbish they chuck out, the sheer hypocrisy of their 'win or bust' attitude (or should that be 'win AND bust'?) etc etc. If people in Sheffield have a problem with that... well, tough. What the hell should they care about what I say - aren't I just a mutant b*****d anyway?  Oh, let me see... kept on that walking rectum of a PR guy... employed a dirty little niggle of a coach who seems to have the same public attitude towards us... come out with PR stuff that sounds just the same as in previous years (sponsorship is good, attendances are good, blah blah) yet always seem to gloss over little bits of information that could be crucial (full attendance figures, etc)... giving every reason to believe that there's been little or no spending restraint (extra import) despite all the recent financial troubles... etc etc... some things never change. And isn't it funny how it's always about the future, never about the past... until it suits them? Jibes about trophies, league wins etc... 1956 ring a <bleep>ing bell, anyone? As I've said plenty of times before... if the Steelers truly changed and became a rival I could respect, then I'd be a very happy Panthers fan. But until they prove that they are even willing to change - much less actually doing it - then I for one am not going to believe a ruddy word of it. The onus is upon them. If they don't like that - tough titties. Maybe so... football, couldn't care less about that sport. Irrelevant. |
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Post by Rob #12 on Dec 27, 2011 8:42:28 GMT
What I see with my own eyes is: - but it feels like paying fans is up. - merchandise - apparently making the club thousands of pounds When you say "with my own eyes" and then use words like "feels like" and "apparently", kinda stamps on your point. Steelers have tarnished their reputation so much in the past that when you look up the word liar in the dictionary you'll see their logo under the word. Having Simms at the helm of PR is the worst mistake they could have made...again... |
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Post by chris22 on Dec 27, 2011 8:58:11 GMT
What I see with my own eyes is: - but it feels like paying fans is up. - merchandise - apparently making the club thousands of pounds When you say "with my own eyes" and then use words like "feels like" and "apparently", kinda stamps on your point. Steelers have tarnished their reputation so much in the past that when you look up the word liar in the dictionary you'll see their logo under the word. Having Simms at the helm of PR is the worst mistake they could have made...again... The Steelers, as an organisation, aren't saying anything. These are my views based on what I see...fair enough if you feel the same about me! Last night, point...over £3k 50/50 prize! Merchandise flying out all over the place. Crowd of just under 7,500. Abi's right, merchandise has so much potential if the right people doing it. Well Tony's been doing it for years so think he is. Have a look at our online shop, it's packed with things. For me the best thing is people are paying you to advertise! Hell of a long way to go, but there's a bit of optimism about the place. Chris |
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Post by chris22 on Dec 27, 2011 9:02:45 GMT
To be honest Dave, I really don't know how you can accuse other people of hate when your post above is simply full of it. Your post has even got a rise on Steeltalk. Wow. I've got a mention on Steeltalk. My life is complete... As I've said before - I don't hate the Steelers. I'm simply sick and tired of all the crap we get from them, all of the lies and spin and rubbish they chuck out, the sheer hypocrisy of their 'win or bust' attitude (or should that be 'win AND bust'?) etc etc. If people in Sheffield have a problem with that... well, tough. What the hell should they care about what I say - aren't I just a mutant b*****d anyway? Oh, let me see... kept on that walking rectum of a PR guy... employed a dirty little niggle of a coach who seems to have the same public attitude towards us... come out with PR stuff that sounds just the same as in previous years (sponsorship is good, attendances are good, blah blah) yet always seem to gloss over little bits of information that could be crucial (full attendance figures, etc)... giving every reason to believe that there's been little or no spending restraint (extra import) despite all the recent financial troubles... etc etc... some things never change. And isn't it funny how it's always about the future, never about the past... until it suits them? Jibes about trophies, league wins etc... 1956 ring a <bleep>ing bell, anyone? As I've said plenty of times before... if the Steelers truly changed and became a rival I could respect, then I'd be a very happy Panthers fan. But until they prove that they are even willing to change - much less actually doing it - then I for one am not going to believe a ruddy word of it. The onus is upon them. If they don't like that - tough titties. Maybe so... football, couldn't care less about that sport. Irrelevant. Shaggy, I wouldn't worry about it. Deep breathe and we all get on with it. From my point of view...a lot of the issues between the 2 clubs, and also others in the league are caused by Gary Moran. I've seen first hand some of his underhand snide tactics to cause issues. Difference is, GM doesn't go public on much, but there's plenty of people within the sport who don't like the man. Pity GM's going to miss tonight's game too. Heard he's off to Europe to watch the biggest rivalry. Chris |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 27, 2011 10:18:38 GMT
Last night, point...over £3k 50/50 prize! Merchandise flying out all over the place. Crowd of just under 7,500. Abi's right, merchandise has so much potential if the right people doing it. Well Tony's been doing it for years so think he is. Have a look at our online shop, it's packed with things. For me the best thing is people are paying you to advertise! Hell of a long way to go, but there's a bit of optimism about the place. Good. You're right... there is a hell of a long way to go, and we have yet to see any concrete evidence that the Steelers' financial troubles are behind them... but what you say is cause for a bit of optimism. Believe it or not, I would like to see the Steelers financially stable... but there's a lot of other off-ice improvements that I'd like to see from them as well, only you lot seem intent on glossing over that at every opportunity. Shaggy, I wouldn't worry about it. Deep breathe and we all get on with it. Yeah, right. Riding the hypocrisy train all the way to the end of the line. It's always "put things behind us" and "look forwards" when it suits you lot - usually when the subject under discussion is your club's transgressions - but if someone actually dares to say anything even mildly off-colour about your lot? Total frenzy. As I have said time and again - no club is perfect, not by a long chalk... but the Steelers are the worst of the lot. Sort your own house out before chucking mud at anyone else. Wow. Unsupported innuendo about unseen alleged transgressions in a vain attempt to trump your own lot's public misdemeanours? You're getting desperate now! Sure, Gary Moran is hardly likely to win the Nobel Peace Prize... who in this sport is? I've either witnessed or heard about some truly dreadful things about the practices of several owners/GMs in this sport (including your own beloved new owner)... what's the diff? Maybe you lot should clean up your public act - especially the hate-mongering and utter contempt for everyone else - before preaching to the rest of us. Just one more pathetic little attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue. How many pots and kettles are made (and blackened) in Sheffield anyway? |
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Post by chris22 on Dec 27, 2011 10:32:10 GMT
I thought you'd chilled a bit over the years but that's just pure garbage with lots of long words, emotive language and pops at anything Sheffield.
Chill out, grow up...and ban me!
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Post by Rob #12 on Dec 27, 2011 11:22:37 GMT
Believe it or not, I would like to see the Steelers financially stable... Did you miss this part Chris? If, as you say, Shaggy "pops at anything Sheffield" would he really post this? How about you take your advice and chill, read the post and then reply. Better still might be time to give it a rest eh? |
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Post by chris22 on Dec 27, 2011 11:52:21 GMT
No Rob, I didn't...and as it was at the beginning of the post I read to see:
Riding the hypocrisy train
if someone actually dares to say anything even mildly off-colour about your lot? Total frenzy
Sort your own house out before chucking mud at anyone else.
Unsupported innuendo about unseen alleged transgressions in a vain attempt to trump your own lot's public misdemeanours? (now that is a mouthful!)
You're getting desperate now!
Maybe you lot should clean up your public act - especially the hate-mongering and utter contempt for everyone else - before preaching to the rest of us.
Just one more pathetic little attempt to deflect attention away from the real issue.How many pots and kettles are made (and blackened) in Sheffield anyway?
I guess you missed that bit, Rob?
I have no issue with 'giving it a rest'. I was one of the original posters (yes I've got a sticker too) back in the Andy Croxall (Mitya) days. There's a story about why he walked which still never got out in public but hey...not in Nottingham. I stopped posting after Andy moved on for a number of years and only started posting now and then again recently.
Right, I'm off to go buy a return ticket on the hypocrisy train to Nottingham!
Chris
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