Robbie Nud
David Clarke
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Post by Robbie Nud on Nov 9, 2006 8:21:48 GMT
I beleive our fixture list when released is more of a provisional one and its always subject to change. So does this mean that when the fixtures are sorted out the Panthers don't book the NIC? If I make a reservation, I expect that it be honoured regardless of the timescale. I certainly don't expect to be informed that I can't have my booking because someone else has come along. I think it a shabby treatment from the NIC, but as they have the Panthers over a barrel on this what do you expect.
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Post by carolle on Nov 9, 2006 8:42:02 GMT
It maybe called the national ICE centre but thats basically because it has ice inside it, not necessarily making ice sports a priority. And where did the major part of the money for the NIC come from.. SPORT ENGLAND. I`m sure when they gave Nottingham the money for the NIC it was it be used with priority on ice sports.
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Post by newham on Nov 9, 2006 14:01:24 GMT
I was under the impression a lot of it came from the lottery?
Ice sports doesn't begin and end at hockey y'know? I understood it was all about international skating events and so forth...
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Nov 9, 2006 14:04:59 GMT
Ice sports doesn't begin and end at hockey y'know? I understood it was all about international skating events and so forth... Very true - and it's something that a lot of people on here tend to forget. Speed skating, figure skating, ice dance, synchro (whatever the hell THAT is! ), sledge hockey, basic skating... probably other stuff as well. Personally I'm honked off that the NIC all of a sudden decide to re-schedule 2 or 3 Saturday games (have we had confirmation of the 3rd yet?) all at once... it's like a bit of a kick in the nadgers. However, people are going to have to realise that ice hockey isn't (unfortunately) the be-all and end-all of the NIC's operations.
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 14:37:49 GMT
but as an ICE SPORT it should have a higher priorty than a concert booked at last minute, what would stop the concert being hosted on the friday say? I am sure if they had been told it was being used on the saturday and that the friday was available then that would be booked instead. Most concerts i have attended have not been at the weekend at all what is the difference here? Oh and Newham sport england got their money from the lottery BUT it is/was to be spent on sporting emphasis not another youth club or karting weekend for bad lads...
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Post by newham on Nov 9, 2006 14:57:00 GMT
But why Tex? Faithless will bring in 10,000 people at least. The hockey game will bring in maybe 2,000 more tickets than have already been bought. Therefore the faithless event is a priority.
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
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Post by Robbie Nud on Nov 9, 2006 15:13:58 GMT
You seem to constantly miss the point.
The Nottingham Ice Centre had been booked, months in advance, for an Ice Hockey match and now that is being moved because someone else has said they want it. Regardless of the fact of the concert will bring in more money. Why could they have not had it on the Friday, it was obviously free! If the NIC are not prepared to honour or uphold bookings what is the point of working out fixture dates.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Nov 9, 2006 15:33:15 GMT
I think you seem to be missing the point. The fact that the place has the word Ice in its name is pretty irrelevant. I have no proof but I'm fairly sure that the NIC have honoured the terms of their contract with Panthers. Everyone knew that the "bookings" could be changed by the NIC when they were made. Nobody had the wool pulled over their eyes.
If the Panthers aren't in a position to negotiate (either via financial means or otherwise) more favourable terms in the contract (such as immovable dates), then that's just tough. The NIC is a business like any other and, like any business, its role is to maximise its profits by any way it sees fit within the law. It's not the NIC's job to lose profits by being Mr Nice Guy.
There could be many reasons why it makes more sense to host the Faithless gig on the Saturday rather than the Friday. I'd guess the main one would be that they think they'll sell more tickets for the Saturday. And at £25 a go it wouldn't take many extra tickets for them to think it worth while. Another reason could be that Nottingham is the first date on the Faithless tour and starting it a day early could mean Faithless having to hire staff and equipment for an extra day, which probably costs a lot more than you imagine.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Nov 9, 2006 15:38:07 GMT
I'm not saying that it's good or that it's right... but the concerts don't have as much leeway in the dates as some people seem to think. These aren't one-off concerts - they're part of a tour. They might be in Manchester or Bristol or London on the Friday... and then in Birmingham or Sheffield or Glasgow the following day. If they come to the NIC and say "we've already got all these days booked, but we have this Saturday slot still unfilled and want to play at your arena that night"... the NIC are then faced with the choice of a) concert and rescheduled Panthers game, or b) scheduled Panthers game. From the NIC's financial point of view, there's no contest.
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Post by spik on Nov 9, 2006 15:45:33 GMT
Yes, can't they play music mid-week?
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Nov 9, 2006 15:47:15 GMT
Yes, can't they play music mid-week? No, Saturday night IS Music Night.
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Post by spik on Nov 9, 2006 15:48:20 GMT
Funny how the bands only have all Saturdays to fill though.
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Post by spik on Nov 9, 2006 15:50:51 GMT
I would not worry so much which night anyway but for all the changing of works rota and annoying colleagues. Were we not secured x amount of Saturday dates ?
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Nov 9, 2006 15:53:00 GMT
but as an ICE SPORT it should have a higher priorty than a concert booked at last minute, what would stop the concert being hosted on the friday say? I am sure if they had been told it was being used on the saturday and that the friday was available then that would be booked instead. Most concerts i have attended have not been at the weekend at all what is the difference here? Oh and Newham sport england got their money from the lottery BUT it is/was to be spent on sporting emphasis not another youth club or karting weekend for bad lads... You seem to constantly miss the point. The Nottingham Ice Centre had been booked, months in advance, for an Ice Hockey match and now that is being moved because someone else has said they want it. Regardless of the fact of the concert will bring in more money. Why could they have not had it on the Friday, it was obviously free! If the NIC are not prepared to honour or uphold bookings what is the point of working out fixture dates. Nottingham Arena has to pay it's way. It does that by hosting as many profitable events as possible. The gigs, boxing, WWE, darts, ice shows etc are the bread and butter for the arena. Not the Panthers. The Arena has a lot of other arenas to compete with and that's before the new arenas in Liverpool (10,000 seats in 2008), Bristol (10,500/2009) have opened. If the Panthers don't like it then they should find an alternative venue. Just like Notts County told Nott'm Rugby Club. The daft thing is that there's still a lot of Saturday games this season. And who is to say a game may not be moved to a Sat from another day? It's already happened with Coventry. Bottom line, the Panthers need the Arena way more than the Arena need the Panthers. If you want to know why cities want arenas: www.leedsarena.com/
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Post by spik on Nov 9, 2006 16:21:50 GMT
Give us an Ice rink for Ice sports and we'll move then.
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Post by newham on Nov 9, 2006 16:30:45 GMT
Put simply, why do people think we deserve the ice every Saturday?
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 16:54:29 GMT
i still refer back to the time of construction where it was announced a NATIONAL ICE CENTRE not a concert tour drop off point. It was sold to the city as the new home of the panthers and a state of the art facility to take part in ice sports and was PAID for on the back of this. Now if the management in charge cannot sustain a profit with that particular brief in mind then thats their problem as they were happy for the facility to be built on tax payers money and sport england funding at the time with those restrictions. Now if they feel the need to subsidise the amount og money earnt with concerts etc then fine but it should not be at the expense of already committed fixtures (panthers or otherwise ice related) that they have agreed to plus as shaggy says other costs could be incurred from tours if dates are moved but that would not be the NIC's problem... Just a point of note here the date would not be moved as a date that is available would be given ie in this instance the friday, if this is not suitable then they have the same deal as anyone else to renegotiate a new date THAT IS AVAILABLE...not one that is already used for something else regardless of the profit or not likely to be generated. It just doesnt ring true that the NIC have to bend over backwards to accomodate tour dates etc IF the band/group/etc want to play at the NIC then they will do so on whatever dates are available and that is up to the tour company to fit all the dates from all the gig sites into a viable tour again not the responsibilty of the NIC to fit in around badly planned tour dates...
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 16:57:22 GMT
and one final point here, who really thinks that a concert by in this case faithless would not be any less a sellout on monday-friday as compared to a saturday? And then it would inconvenience no one wouldnt it?....
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Nov 9, 2006 17:02:25 GMT
and one final point here, who really thinks that a concert by in this case faithless would not be any less a sellout on monday-friday as compared to a saturday? And then it would inconvenience no one wouldnt it?.... Me. I've been to many many concerts at the arena. Hardly any of them are true sell-outs. Elton John, Tom Jones and Green Day have been the only ones from the last couple of years that I can think of off the top of my head I think The White Stripes, Franz Ferdinand and Manic Street Preachers came close. Muse is (aparrantly) sold out. But I bet they release more tickets before the 17th, and I bet they don't fill the place to the extent that Elton John and Tom Jones did.
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 17:07:28 GMT
and that i suspect doughnut would be exactly the same position regardless of the day of the concert if people want to go then they would go any time as this would be a one off in nottingham and that is the peoples only chance to see it. For eg i have booked deep purple concert tickets at the NIC i havent a clue what day it is on but to me its irrelevent as i want to go so i will make arrangements regardless and this is the same for any one off event and thats exactly what concerts are...
Oh and newham put another way why dont we have a right to watch panthers on a saturday as that is the day that has been designated hockey night since their reformation in the very early 80's....
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Post by Peacock on Nov 9, 2006 17:08:49 GMT
and one final point here, who really thinks that a concert by in this case faithless would not be any less a sellout on monday-friday as compared to a saturday? And then it would inconvenience no one wouldnt it?.... Texpef, be realistic. Band tours do not fit their schedules around the Panthers.
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 17:14:39 GMT
Peacock didnt say they should arrange dates around panthers just that they should not double book dates that are already in use ie the NIC are at fault here for allowing the bands to book those dates when other dates in this case the friday are available...
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Nov 9, 2006 17:15:52 GMT
i still refer back to the time of construction where it was announced a NATIONAL ICE CENTRE not a concert tour drop off point. It was sold to the city as the new home of the panthers and a state of the art facility to take part in ice sports and was PAID for on the back of this. Now if the management in charge cannot sustain a profit with that particular brief in mind then thats their problem as they were happy for the facility to be built on tax payers money and sport england funding at the time with those restrictions. Now if they feel the need to subsidise the amount og money earnt with concerts etc then fine but it should not be at the expense of already committed fixtures (panthers or otherwise ice related) that they have agreed to plus as shaggy says other costs could be incurred from tours if dates are moved but that would not be the NIC's problem... Just a point of note here the date would not be moved as a date that is available would be given ie in this instance the friday, if this is not suitable then they have the same deal as anyone else to renegotiate a new date THAT IS AVAILABLE...not one that is already used for something else regardless of the profit or not likely to be generated. It just doesnt ring true that the NIC have to bend over backwards to accomodate tour dates etc IF the band/group/etc want to play at the NIC then they will do so on whatever dates are available and that is up to the tour company to fit all the dates from all the gig sites into a viable tour again not the responsibilty of the NIC to fit in around badly planned tour dates... It was built as an arena. One of the main factors was that Nott'm could not get gigs and people had to go to Birmingham. Far more people in Nott'm and beyond use it for gigs and shows then use it for watching Panthers. Within a year of opening they demolished part of Blocks 1 and 19 to make the stage bigger so people like Kylie would come. The bowl is all about putting on shows. Not about ice sports. Give us an Ice rink for Ice sports and we'll move then. Tell Neil Black that. That'd be his responsibility to give Panthers a 'home'.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Nov 9, 2006 17:16:22 GMT
and one final point here, who really thinks that a concert by in this case faithless would not be any less a sellout on monday-friday as compared to a saturday? And then it would inconvenience no one wouldnt it?.... But as stated above - maybe the Saturday was the only day that the Faithless people could manage? As I understand it, a lot of the time it is the tour people saying to the venue "we want to play at your place and we can only do so on this day or days" - not the venue saying "we can fit you in here, here or here". There are plenty of concerts that DO take place at the NIC mid-week, so it's not as if they're all coming along demanding Saturdays and nothing else. I know this sounds like I'm defending the NIC to the death, which is not my intention - this annoys me as well, I'm just being realistic enough to see that that world doesn't revolve around Panthers fans. Yes - the NIC is the National ICE Centre... and I bet if we totted up all of the ICE activities that take place there week in, week out - we'd see that the vast majority of the arena time is devoted to ice sports and activities of various kinds - including but not limited to ice hockey.... which includes, but is not limited to, the Panthers.
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Post by texpef on Nov 9, 2006 17:18:30 GMT
for fear of repeating myself it was built as the NATIONAL (ie the centre of the country) ICE (ie for ice sports) CENTRE and doubles up as an arena second, and over the year i very much doubt enough bands visit to top the yearly attendence of panthers fans...
Think this has gone as far as it can... dont you...
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