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Post by texpef on Oct 25, 2006 15:41:32 GMT
Doubt that doughnut, look up norf' for that. Afterall when/if they aint winning they get cloth ear to have a good scrap and it makes em go home happy....or at least thats what it seems like....
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Post by paek on Oct 25, 2006 18:49:51 GMT
Tough break for Cruickshank, and while I haven't seen them play so far this year, I highly doubt that their predicament is all down to him.
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Post by rangers on Oct 26, 2006 11:33:30 GMT
Would be very intersting to see how many saves that CC made were from rebounds of his own making. Apparently (and i didn't see him but have heard reports that) he was letting a fair few out. Goal scoring was a worry for us from day 1 when willy announced the squad. Even with Weaves and Lobby we were always gonna struggle. The defence looks good on paper, but Willy should have hung em up long before this season, and seems to be the week link-again. Good coach(honest!), too old player. Anyway we are owed a bad season(our worst in Viper history had us 2nd in leage and runner up in cup) so 1 bad(awful, horrific etc) season in 5 I can cope with very happily.
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Post by paek on Oct 26, 2006 15:12:20 GMT
Would be very intersting to see how many saves that CC made were from rebounds of his own making. Apparently (and i didn't see him but have heard reports that) he was letting a fair few out. Goal scoring was a worry for us from day 1 when willy announced the squad. Even with Weaves and Lobby we were always gonna struggle. The defence looks good on paper, but Willy should have hung em up long before this season, and seems to be the week link-again. Good coach(honest!), too old player. Anyway we are owed a bad season(our worst in Viper history had us 2nd in leage and runner up in cup) so 1 bad(awful, horrific etc) season in 5 I can cope with very happily. If Cruickshank was giving rebounds up, then it's up to the coach to get the defencemen to pick up the loose pucks before the opposition do.
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Post by supermattytrickett on Oct 26, 2006 15:21:22 GMT
Save percentage can be a bit skewed though, as a 'minder who is exposed to a lot of shots is naturally going to have a high ratio. Five goals from 55 shots statistically is identical to three goals from 33 shots (90% save percentage), so give me Goals Against Average to judge a netminder with any day of the week.
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 26, 2006 15:25:54 GMT
Save percentage can be a bit skewed though, as a 'minder who is exposed to a lot of shots is naturally going to have a high ratio. Only if he stops a lot of them! Five goals from 55 shots statistically is identical to three goals from 33 shots (90% save percentage), so give me Goals Against Average to judge a netminder with any day of the week. So on that basis, do you reckon CC is the worst net-minder in the league other than Newcastle's backup? All GAA tells you is how effective the whole team is at defending. Paraphrasing you a little; a net-minder who is exposed to a lot of shots is naturally going to have a high GAA. Looking at the Netminder Ranking page on the EIHL site, I reckon the save percentage is a much fairer way of ranking net-minders than GAA.
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Post by supermattytrickett on Oct 26, 2006 17:47:31 GMT
Save percentage can be a bit skewed though, as a 'minder who is exposed to a lot of shots is naturally going to have a high ratio. Only if he stops a lot of them! Five goals from 55 shots statistically is identical to three goals from 33 shots (90% save percentage), so give me Goals Against Average to judge a netminder with any day of the week. So on that basis, do you reckon CC is the worst net-minder in the league other than Newcastle's backup? All GAA tells you is how effective the whole team is at defending. Paraphrasing you a little; a net-minder who is exposed to a lot of shots is naturally going to have a high GAA. Looking at the Netminder Ranking page on the EIHL site, I reckon the save percentage is a much fairer way of ranking net-minders than GAA. No Doughnut, I don't think he is. However, i'm surprised at the constant speculation concerning him, as at the end of the day, he's not plying his trade here any more. I don't want to swap quotes with you, but if a GAA is a reflection of how the team defends as a whole unit, then why does the statistic rest squarely and totally against a goaltender's name? I guess that there are pros and cons involved in relying too much on any given method, so we'll just have to split the points
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 27, 2006 9:13:35 GMT
No Doughnut, I don't think he is. However, i'm surprised at the constant speculation concerning him, as at the end of the day, he's not plying his trade here any more. *shrug* he's been gone less than a week. I don't want to swap quotes with you, but if a GAA is a reflection of how the team defends as a whole unit, then why does the statistic rest squarely and totally against a goaltender's name? No idea, doesn't make sense to me. Let's say n/m A faces 10 shots and lets 4 in for a SP of 60% and GAA of 4. n/m B faces 100 shots and lets in 5 for a SP of 95% and GAA of 5. Who's the best n/m?
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Post by supermattytrickett on Oct 27, 2006 11:34:29 GMT
No Doughnut, I don't think he is. However, i'm surprised at the constant speculation concerning him, as at the end of the day, he's not plying his trade here any more. *shrug* he's been gone less than a week. I don't want to swap quotes with you, but if a GAA is a reflection of how the team defends as a whole unit, then why does the statistic rest squarely and totally against a goaltender's name? No idea, doesn't make sense to me. Let's say n/m A faces 10 shots and lets 4 in for a SP of 60% and GAA of 4. n/m B faces 100 shots and lets in 5 for a SP of 95% and GAA of 5. Who's the best n/m? Who's the better netminder? Well I think that's quite subjective really, as the examples you give above could well show a great netminder having a nightmare, or a poor netminder having an unbelievable amount of luck! You won't give in will you, and it's to your credit
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Oct 27, 2006 11:45:45 GMT
You won't give in will you, and it's to your credit I give in. But only 'cos I know I'm right!
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Post by hitman69 on Oct 27, 2006 18:14:54 GMT
Don't think for a minute he will be looking for a job for long, good luck CC where ever you end up next.
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Magpie
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Post by Magpie on Oct 28, 2006 10:07:35 GMT
No Doughnut, I don't think he is. However, i'm surprised at the constant speculation concerning him, as at the end of the day, he's not plying his trade here any more. *shrug* he's been gone less than a week. I don't want to swap quotes with you, but if a GAA is a reflection of how the team defends as a whole unit, then why does the statistic rest squarely and totally against a goaltender's name? No idea, doesn't make sense to me. Let's say n/m A faces 10 shots and lets 4 in for a SP of 60% and GAA of 4. n/m B faces 100 shots and lets in 5 for a SP of 95% and GAA of 5. Who's the best n/m? but what if n/m b is giving out tons of rebounds so a lot of the shots are of his own making .
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 28, 2006 10:41:10 GMT
but what if n/m b is giving out tons of rebounds so a lot of the shots are of his own making . True - but hasn't it often been said that stopping the first shot is the netminder's responsibility, stopping rest is that of the defence? CC is known for giving up more than the average number of rebounds - not as many as Lehman or Lindsay, perhaps.. but still more than some. He's been known for that ever since he came to this country... and any coach should know that before taking him on. Therefore you would expect that the coach would have a defensive unit in place that can handle such. Evidently not. CC isn't perfect (what player is?) - but he's been right up at the top of the netminder charts ever since he started playing in the UK. Has he suddenly become utterly naff overnight? I very much doubt it - what reason would there be for that? We've not heard about any injuries for a start... So ou have to widen the context... and look at the rest of the team. Remember - it's a defensive unit... netminder and D-men. Why else was Martin Brodeur so incredibly dominant in the NHL for the past few years, and has now suddenly dropped somewhat (although still damned good)? - could it be because he had played for 10+ years with two top-class D-men like Stevens and Neidermayer, and had built up a great working relationship with them? Without them he's still damned good, but seems to have lost the sharpest part of his edge. And remember... CC didn't have the greatest defences to work with when he was down here in Nottingham... yet he still managed to rack up superior stats. The most logical conclusion to draw from all of this is that the defence as a whole is seriously at fault... not just CC.
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Post by rangers on Oct 28, 2006 11:24:58 GMT
But the defence is not radically different for us from this season to last. General feeling is Mihalik is better than Gomenyuk, and Robinson should be in better defensive positions than Jan, bearing in mind the type of game they play. Although Rob should have hung up the skates years ago. No one is suggesting Curtis is a bad nettie. He just isn't up to the standard of every other No 1 goalie we have ever had, something which our successes have always been built around. If the team think the goalie is going to spill every shot, it aint a great start. But other issues in the team are gradually being sorted out. We were never going to win anything this year, but a bit of respectability would be nice.
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Post by paek on Oct 28, 2006 11:28:38 GMT
But the defence is not radically different for us from this season to last. General feeling is Mihalik is better than Gomenyuk, and Robinson should be in better defensive positions than Jan, bearing in mind the type of game they play. Although Rob should have hung up the skates years ago. No one is suggesting Curtis is a bad nettie. He just isn't up to the standard of every other No 1 goalie we have ever had, something which our successes have always been built around. If the team think the goalie is going to spill every shot, it aint a great start. But other issues in the team are gradually being sorted out. We were never going to win anything this year, but a bit of respectability would be nice. And if the goaltender thinks "my defensemen aren't going to clear lose pucks..."
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