Matt
Simon Hunt
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Post by Matt on Oct 22, 2006 11:19:50 GMT
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/general/story.jsp?story=710898Quote: "There were two sets of reasons why the club declined the take up the Continental Cup place," said Elliott. "The first was the playing standard. With just ten imports this season we are stretched with three lines as it is and teams in Europe play with four lines. "You also have to play three games in three nights and in those circumstances you leave yourself open to humiliation and also injuries. "The other part is purely financial. It is a very expensive weekend and Nottingham have more resources than we do to afford that. "In addition to that we have seen teams in the last two or three years suffer a dip in form after coming back from the Continental Cup and it will be interesting to see how Nottingham do in the next couple of weeks....." Wise move Mr Elliott 
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Slippy
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Slippy on Oct 22, 2006 12:05:06 GMT
Yeap... I agree with ever word. The days of UK hockey teams 'competing' in the CC is over.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2006 12:21:11 GMT
Spot on Mr Elliot, Exactly what benifit does it have for elite teams to enter the CC, and by default at that.,..... absolutely nothing, the only experience we had was getting thumped 3 times by 3 far superior teams., good for the fans to have their good old knees up off the ice but on it, the worst thing we could ever have done. We get a very good result against a belfast side, then no more elite games for 2 weeks, all the good momentum thrown straight out of the window. You would have throught we would know how to play Edinburghs european tactics after last weekends stuff, but nope.. Nice work panthers  |
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Post by heja on Oct 22, 2006 12:47:33 GMT
yeah eg drill them into the ice
hope elis tonight makes the players target before the game to make 10 hits each in the game tonight
eg just tell them to go out and beat them up (cleanly)
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Post by Heanor Lair on Oct 23, 2006 12:45:27 GMT
Elliott. No-ones interested in the drivel you talk. Strange how Belfast have competed in the past eh? 3 lines - do me a favour, Belfast have 2 lines and a a 3rd line of makeweights. I think you were worried about been humilated. Panthers were not humilated, they gave a good account of themselves. But of course Panthers are willing to learn and expand their horizons, not like the Blefast organisation - win at all costs. The reason you didnt go to Rouen has nothing to do with expense (where have all the $$ from across the water gone  ), your organisation didnt have the balls or the ambition. You should be ashamed rather than sticking your nose into our business. Go away. HL |
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 23, 2006 13:11:43 GMT
I am, and 99% of Giants fans all are, not his fault it made it onto your forum. Funny that's maybe because it was before John Elliot had anything to do with the Giants eh? Whats wrong with that? Surely that should be the mentality of every team in the league. At the fan forum meeting it was stated that the Giants is still being run on a very tight ship, this is only our 3rd season after going bust. Its funny, the season we went to Europe was also the season we went bust. The money from Jim Y hasn't all been given yet, its in small installments, which was also discussed at the meeting with the fans. He did the right thing by not accepting the offer, no point putting our stable but fragile financial position under unnecessary stress. The time we went to Europe our domestic campaign suffered as a result, players got banged up. The same has happened to the Panthers not only this season, but last season as well. Fair play if competing in a competition you have no chance of winning is what you want, we will stick to winning the Elite League thanks. (in reference to last year)  |
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Post by belak on Oct 23, 2006 13:17:44 GMT
Spot on Mr Elliot, Exactly what benifit does it have for elite teams to enter the CC, and by default at that.,..... absolutely nothing, the only experience we had was getting thumped 3 times by 3 far superior teams., good for the fans to have their good old knees up off the ice but on it, the worst thing we could ever have done. We get a very good result against a belfast side, then no more elite games for 2 weeks, all the good momentum thrown straight out of the window. You would have throught we would know how to play Edinburghs european tactics after last weekends stuff, but nope.. Nice work panthers I guess the benefit of playing in European competion is that it gets publicity & exposure for the sport in this country, as well as in Europe. This league can stay put, remain nothing more than a beer league or it can try and improve itself. |
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 23, 2006 13:22:23 GMT
By the way I wasn't saying that its a bad thing for the Panthers to play in Europe if thats what you want, I would love a team to represent the UK there every year. Its just not viable for the Giants to participate, and we have learnt our lesson from the one and only time we did go.
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Post by dad on Oct 23, 2006 14:04:05 GMT
Elliott. No-ones interested in the drivel you talk. Go away. HL What a mature grown up response. No ones interested? I beg to differ. For what it's worth, I think the fella is spot on with his remarks. |
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Slippy
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Slippy on Oct 23, 2006 18:01:45 GMT
Elliott. No-ones interested in the drivel you talk. Strange how Belfast have competed in the past eh? 3 lines - do me a favour, Belfast have 2 lines and a a 3rd line of makeweights. I think you were worried about been humilated. Panthers were not humilated, they gave a good account of themselves. But of course Panthers are willing to learn and expand their horizons, not like the Blefast organisation - win at all costs. The reason you didnt go to Rouen has nothing to do with expense (where have all the $$ from across the water gone ), your organisation didnt have the balls or the ambition. You should be ashamed rather than sticking your nose into our business. Go away. HL Dearie me theres someone who is in a bad mood after the weekend. ;D As I said I agree with everything he wrote. If it isn't going to bring cash into the club then it is a complete waste of time... forget and move on. If you lot feel you want to enter it then fire away, there is no point whinging about the teams that turn it down. I thought by the high regard you appear to have for the competition you would have been thankful we give you the chance to play in it. |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 23, 2006 18:14:59 GMT
For those who are totally rejecting the Continental Cup as being a totally bad idea... I seem to recall Mike Ellis pointing out (before we went to Rouen - might even have been at the Q&A, I can't remember) that the Panthers' participation in the CC had been a strong selling point when he was engaged in recruiting players.
It is quite conceivable that us being in the CC may have helped to bring in such players as Sean McAslan, Corey Neilson and Steve Simoes.
Don't know about anyone else, but that helps to sell me on the idea....
As for this Elliott bod in Belfast... well, of course he's going to say it was a bad idea. Just as he would have been praising the Giants for taking part (and making pointed digs at everyone else) if Belfast had accepted the invite. He's a hack - it's what he does. And going by previous rants of his, vitriol and blinkered partisan rants are much more his style than anything even approaching reasoned analysis.
He's a muppet, and he's over in Belfast not here. He's about as relevant to us as the numbers of migrating wildebeest in Africa. I'd wipe my backside on his rag, except a) I don't have a copy, and b) the ink would probably smear too much. So there's not really much point in paying attention to his opinion on this subject (or any other?).
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Post by ted on Oct 23, 2006 18:18:38 GMT
Beg to differ Shaggy, its always worth reading anothers view point even if you dont agree with it! How else are you meant to make you own decisions...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2006 18:24:36 GMT
with regards to Simoes, that would have absolute nothing to do with getting him, i remember comments coming out about him being one to watch before judgement was made, and other unsure comments, now after the game hes bringing to us, how comments are changing about him, i said at the time, he could be THE find. I think i ve been proved comfortably, it doesn t matter what leagues he came from and previous rules prevented us hunting from there, perhaps Mcaslan and Neilson were playings he may have been persuaded by it., but just those 2
I remeember gazzathedevil making comments being suprised Ellis is recruiting alot from the CHL, i bet he wouldn t have minded Simoes on his team, every team needs a simoes type of player
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Post by chris22 on Oct 23, 2006 19:19:08 GMT
John Elliott is a top man. His remarks are honest and accurate.
I really don't see a problem.
Chris
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 23, 2006 19:40:48 GMT
What rants are these you are referring to? The guy has done a heck alot of good for the Giants, heck we wouldn't be in existance anymore if it wasn't for him. He is a top bloke in real life. I suppose the same could be said around the league about your GM though.... |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 23, 2006 20:24:38 GMT
What rants are these you are referring to? The guy has done a heck alot of good for the Giants, heck we wouldn't be in existance anymore if it wasn't for him. He is a top bloke in real life. Gyargh OK - numb-nuts here got Elliot mixed up with the journalist from the Belfast Telegraph... who IS a hack, and a poor one at that. Argh, I need some sleep... So - Mr Elliot - you have my apologies. I still disagree with your stance on this issue, and I maintain that you'd no doubt have a very different attitude if the shoe was on the other foot (as would most of the Belfast fans, no doubt) - but for the identity confusion, you have my apology. Has been said, is said, will be said.... |
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 23, 2006 21:42:47 GMT
Its OK, easy mistake  But I'm pretty sure if our GM decided to take us into Europe this year, their would not be great support for the trip. We know how badly it cost us last time, we went bankrupt that same season. Once is enough thankyou very much. |
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Post by supermattytrickett on Oct 23, 2006 21:59:02 GMT
You cut your cloth accordingly in this world and in UK hockey, even more so. Mr Elliott states that Belfast couldn't afford it, plain and simple. I guess that by our presense in Rouen, Mr Black could afford it.
Given the continuing turbulent world of cash finances in UK hockey, is it any wonder teams are not busting a gut to compete in something that will only be successful in lining the French Postal Services pockets as a result of all the postcards being sent back to Nottingham from Rouen?
It is clear that other teams were canny enough to realise that they had about as much chance as qualifying for the next round as Jose Mourinho winning a popularity contest in Reading. We were on a hiding to nothing, and if anything am glad that we didn't sneak though as i'm certain we would have been true fodder in the next group stage.
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Post by Heanor Lair on Oct 24, 2006 7:55:08 GMT
So Elliot is entitled to his opinions What stinks is he is making a thinly disguised critisism of another team for doing something that his own organisation didnt have the balls or the ambition to do. Frankly thats pathetic. No doubt when it suits the Belfast organisation, and they take their blinkers off and promote themselves and UK Ice Hockey in Europe, the CC will no-doubt become the greatest thing since sliced bread in Elliots eyes.  HL |
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 24, 2006 10:26:25 GMT
There are other ways of promoting UK ice hockey than participating in a competition that left us bankrupt. The Giants have brought the league a heck alot of publicity in Canada and even in the good ol' US of A since they have been in existance. Maybe it would be best to work on building a better reputation for the Elite League in our own country before we think about anywhere else. |
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 24, 2006 10:37:58 GMT
There are other ways of promoting UK ice hockey than participating in a competition that left us bankrupt. The Giants have brought the league a heck alot of publicity in Canada and even in the good ol' US of A since they have been in existance. Maybe it would be best to work on building a better reputation for the Elite League in our own country before we think about anywhere else. Hang on a minute.... first you say it's good that the Giants have promoted the EIHL over the Atlantic... and then in the very next breath you say that we should concentrate on the publicity at home first? Please make your mind up.... OK, so the CC left you bankrupt. It hasn't with us - twice now. So the situations are obviously different... which makes me wonder if there is anything but sour grapes motivating the various criticisms from other teams of our sojourn into Europe... And as Mike Ellis already stated... the lure of the CC helped him in his player recruitment. That's a positive benefit (for us, at least). OK - so going into Europe may not have been the right choice for other clubs. Doesn't mean that it can't be the right choice for us... and if we've made a positive impression over there, isn't that a good thing for the league as a whole? Obviously not... unless someone else's team does it! |
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Post by acsmyth on Oct 24, 2006 10:59:41 GMT
I've already stated it is a good thing. I didn't make a comment on the Giants publicity over in USA and Canada, that however is completely different, that publicity was free and didn't cost us a penny, which is a different case to the CC, which costs the club a fortune.
There isn't one thing in that article that isn't true, I'm sure if the journalist asked John Elliot if he thought the Panthers promoting the league in Europe was good he would agree. Next time your at a Giants game away, why don't you go and have a chat with the big man himself, he is always open to discussion.
It is great that you are promoting the league, that doesn't mean that there are no negative affects participating.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
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Post by MP on Oct 24, 2006 11:48:47 GMT
that doesn't mean that there are no negative affects participating. All too true I think. I was enthusiastic about Panthers participating in the Continental Cup first time around - I'm not so sure now, the jury's out for me at the moment. Panthers have been fortunate that Neil Black has the resources and the desire to see the club playing European games - something Neil seems to have been interested in for some years. I quite understand why other clubs decline to take part though - in terms of their domestic audience (who pay the bills for the season) the CC is an expensive hiding to nothing which is likely to leave them short changed in domestic competition. Much as I'd like to see Panthers playing in Europe, I'm not sure the CC is a suitable vehicle given the small size of our wagecap and squad. |
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Post by chris22 on Oct 24, 2006 12:15:06 GMT
So Elliot is entitled to his opinions What stinks is he is making a thinly disguised critisism of another team for doing something that his own organisation didnt have the balls or the ambition to do. Frankly thats pathetic. Still can't see the criticism. I think the simple fact is Belfast can't afford it, the Panthers can, and the problem with that is? Chris |
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 24, 2006 12:19:36 GMT
that doesn't mean that there are no negative affects participating. All too true I think. I was enthusiastic about Panthers participating in the Continental Cup first time around - I'm not so sure now, the jury's out for me at the moment. Panthers have been fortunate that Neil Black has the resources and the desire to see the club playing European games - something Neil seems to have been interested in for some years. I quite understand why other clubs decline to take part though - in terms of their domestic audience (who pay the bills for the season) the CC is an expensive hiding to nothing which is likely to leave them short changed in domestic competition. Much as I'd like to see Panthers playing in Europe, I'm not sure the CC is a suitable vehicle given the small size of our wagecap and squad. Thing is.... people appear to be assuming that our poor performance at the weekend is as a direct result of the Continental Cup trip. Proof, anyone? The Amiens trip 2 years ago hurt us... all those injuries had a bad effect, no doubt (although they could jsut as easily have happened at a league game). But Rouen? - no injuries. No apparent detrimental effects on the team - they all seemed quite enthusiastic afterwards. There's too much assumption of "If B follows A then A caused B" I think. Our poor weekend came after the CC, therefore the CC caused the poor weekend? Maybe. That's all... it's a maybe. We don't know, do we? Anyone here know? I mean - really KNOW? Have absolute, incontrovertible proof? Somehow, I very much doubt it... Too many assumptions. |
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), your organisation didnt have the balls or the ambition.
