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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 19, 2006 14:11:38 GMT
The womens IIHF Div 3 Womens World Championships are to be hosted by Ice Hockey UK at Ice Sheffield EIHL News ArticleThis has me in mixed feelings.... Its wonderful that the championships will be hosted here, even better that its free admission, and fair play to ice sheffield for getting the hosting, its a cracking venue and if they are offering it for free then congrats. It makes me bloody angry however that this isnt going to be hosted by THE NATIONAL ICE CENTRE.... a centre of excellence built purely for the service of british ice sports. Surely, then, if there is a world championships to be held in this country it should be there? Why do they constantly miss out on this? I would presume that a charge would have been applied that would have eradicated the free admition, it wouldnt suprise me if Ice Hockey UK didnt even bother asking them. It just makes my blood boil that the NIC seems not to be the national centre for ice sports excellence at all!!!! When the NIC was built, i was so excited and so proud that nottingham would now be the centre of british ice sports, and that team GB would base themselves here.... it just hasnt happened and i feel let down. Anyway rant over, and please dont think im trying to take anything away from ice sheffield... they are doing brilliantly well, and they more than deserve this championships. Just wish our own arena would take note.
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Post by texpef on Oct 19, 2006 14:34:28 GMT
Probably and this is only a guess keefe that concerts generate considerably more money that girls hockey and so thats where the emphasis seems to be at the NIC rather than support sports... oh and admission is an s not t....
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Post by cal on Oct 19, 2006 14:45:53 GMT
Concerts generate more money than ANY ice sports ... doesn't matter which gender is participating! I cannot ever see any major ice sporting event being held at the so called National Ice Centre. Would love to be proved wrong though, over to you NIC management
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Post by dad on Oct 19, 2006 14:55:33 GMT
I think the main concen is cost. At a guess I would imagine Ice Sheffield is considerably cheaper to hirer than our beloved NIC. The fact that tickets to this event are free, would also lead me to guess they are not expecting large crowds. Sounds to me like the event will make a loss, hiring Ice Sheffield makes it a less of a loss maker. Concerts & other events may be on at the NIC at the same time. Something Ice Sheffield does not have to worry about.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 19, 2006 15:26:00 GMT
I believe that both the NIC and Ice Sheffield had several conditions to receive lottery funding - one of those was to provide cheap ice time to the GB programme for 5 years. Well - that 5 years is up for the NIC, but not for Ice Sheffield... so as well as IS being cheaper than the NIC anyway, it will be even cheaper for GB at the moment.
Anyway - there's no chance of filling all of the seats at Ice Sheffield for an event like this, let alone the much larger NIC... we had the GB U20s championships up at Ice Sheffield a couple of years ago, and hardly anyone gave a toss... sadly, I'd be surprised if there was much more interest for this. Even the couple of times that the GB senior men's team played at the NIC, there wasn't much of a crowd. Maybe this recently-proposed challenge to the French national team would attract more interest and would make it worth holding such a game at the NIC... but sadly, I'm not optimistic.
No point in getting angry at the organisers when most of the fans don't seem to care either...
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Post by dad on Oct 19, 2006 16:19:57 GMT
I believe that both the NIC and Ice Sheffield had several conditions to receive lottery funding - one of those was to provide cheap ice time to the GB programme for 5 years. Well - that 5 years is up for the NIC, but not for Ice Sheffield... so as well as IS being cheaper than the NIC anyway, it will be even cheaper for GB at the moment. Anyway - there's no chance of filling all of the seats at Ice Sheffield for an event like this, let alone the much larger NIC... we had the GB U20s championships up at Ice Sheffield a couple of years ago, and hardly anyone gave a toss... sadly, I'd be surprised if there was much more interest for this. Even the couple of times that the GB senior men's team played at the NIC, there wasn't much of a crowd. Maybe this recently-proposed challenge to the French national team would attract more interest and would make it worth holding such a game at the NIC... but sadly, I'm not optimistic. No point in getting angry at the organisers when most of the fans don't seem to care either... Shaggy. We ALL know your GB through & through, and if that is what floats your boat then so be it. Suprising as it may seem, some of us have other things going off in our lifes (Not suggesting you don't) such as jobs, famillies, and other hobbies and interests. It's not always a case of us 'not caring' - we often have other things to do with our valuble/precious time and money. GB/GB players isn't top of my and seemingly others, list of prioroties.
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 19, 2006 16:25:54 GMT
Shaggy mate, im not angry at the organisers at all, i understand that they have to do what they can to make it as cost effective as poss. What annoys me, is that the NIC is not willing to bow to ice sports, is not willing to accomodate the people it was originally built for. If it were not for ice sports, the NIC wouldnt exist. It was sports council and lottery money that built the bloody thing in the first place, and now they seem only to happy to snub its roots for capitalism on concerts. You can make as much money as you want on concerts, not a problem, but when that arena is sat there empty, why cant they give it to the GB team? Why cant they help the people that helped them in the first place? As i see it, its sat there empty, concerts have nothing to do with it! If the world championships clash, then try to work something out that suits all parties!
Its the NATIONAL ICE CENTRE!!!!! i wouldnt go to the national water sports centre and expect to see a shed load of motorcars racing each other and little time devoted to water sports.... i wouldnt go to the national space centre and expect to see a shed load paintings done by elephants in africa.... why call it the national ice centre if it isnt??? rename the bloody thing to Nottingham arena devoted to concerts and might give sometime to ice sports if we can be arsed centre.....
I would just like to see it devote some more of its time to its name!!!!
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Post by heja on Oct 19, 2006 17:59:09 GMT
The NIC only has to offer the GB teams a certern amount of ice time for free, ice sheffield has to do the same as they are bother funded by sport england. ice sheffield makes more sence to hold a thing of this nature as its smaller the right size for this kind of event, if the proper world championships came to this country (ooops i mean mens ) then the NIC would take it as it would get more of a crowd
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 19, 2006 18:02:56 GMT
I believe that both the NIC and Ice Sheffield had several conditions to receive lottery funding - one of those was to provide cheap ice time to the GB programme for 5 years. Well - that 5 years is up for the NIC, but not for Ice Sheffield... so as well as IS being cheaper than the NIC anyway, it will be even cheaper for GB at the moment. Anyway - there's no chance of filling all of the seats at Ice Sheffield for an event like this, let alone the much larger NIC... we had the GB U20s championships up at Ice Sheffield a couple of years ago, and hardly anyone gave a toss... sadly, I'd be surprised if there was much more interest for this. Even the couple of times that the GB senior men's team played at the NIC, there wasn't much of a crowd. Maybe this recently-proposed challenge to the French national team would attract more interest and would make it worth holding such a game at the NIC... but sadly, I'm not optimistic. No point in getting angry at the organisers when most of the fans don't seem to care either... Shaggy. We ALL know your GB through & through, and if that is what floats your boat then so be it. Suprising as it may seem, some of us have other things going off in our lifes (Not suggesting you don't) such as jobs, famillies, and other hobbies and interests. It's not always a case of us 'not caring' - we often have other things to do with our valuble/precious time and money. GB/GB players isn't top of my and seemingly others, list of prioroties. Fair comment. I wasn't trying to make out that everybody 'should' be GB fans - that's a personal choice, and as you say it's not always possible for various reasons. However, it does seriously honk me off that I keep hearing from people (yes, I do - quite a lot) "why is our national team no good" and "why do we never see the GB team here in this country".... and yet every time that the various GB teams HAVE played on British ice, the apathy has been overwhelming. It's not just the fans,of course - the clubs and leagues have historically not given a toss (sometimes actively holding players back), and the governing body does not strike me as being very effective - but the fact remains.... in general,the overall British ice hockey fanbase appears to expect far more out of the GB programme than it is prepared to put in. Do the math....
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 19, 2006 18:13:40 GMT
Shaggy mate, im not angry at the organisers at all, i understand that they have to do what they can to make it as cost effective as poss. What annoys me, is that the NIC is not willing to bow to ice sports, is not willing to accomodate the people it was originally built for. If it were not for ice sports, the NIC wouldnt exist. It was sports council and lottery money that built the bloody thing in the first place, and now they seem only to happy to snub its roots for capitalism on concerts. You can make as much money as you want on concerts, not a problem, but when that arena is sat there empty, why cant they give it to the GB team? Why cant they help the people that helped them in the first place? As i see it, its sat there empty, concerts have nothing to do with it! If the world championships clash, then try to work something out that suits all parties! Its the NATIONAL ICE CENTRE!!!!! i wouldnt go to the national water sports centre and expect to see a shed load of motorcars racing each other and little time devoted to water sports.... i wouldnt go to the national space centre and expect to see a shed load paintings done by elephants in africa.... why call it the national ice centre if it isnt??? rename the bloody thing to Nottingham arena devoted to concerts and might give sometime to ice sports if we can be arsed centre..... I would just like to see it devote some more of its time to its name!!!! I can't argue with your sentiments... but do you know what percentage of NIC time is actually devoted to ice sports? I certainly don't - but I know that there's an awful lot more going on than just what we watch. I mean - apart from the Panthers, Lions, Vipers, 8 junior teams, 3 (I think) rec teams, university teams, Nottingham and GB sledge hockey teams.... there's also the speed-skating, figure-skating, ice dance, synchro and gawd knows what else. Personally I couldn't really give a monkey's about the non-hockey stuff... but it's still ice sports and it is still a legitimate part of NIC operations. I don't think we can honestly judge whether the NIC truly is doing enough for ice sports, because we just don't have all the facts. Anyway - we don't know whether the decision to hold the Women's Worlds at Ice Sheffield was made by the NIC rejecting it, or by IHUK deciding that Ice Sheffield suited this particular tournament more... I imagine that if (fat chance!) the Pool B Worlds were ever held here in the UK and the GB men's seniors were competing on home ice, the NIC would be the natural choice. But this tournament? - I'm not so certain...
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Post by dad on Oct 19, 2006 18:21:55 GMT
There also seems to be a general 'apathy' amongst a percentage of people that DO follow Team GB. I refuse to name names, but may times in the past I have personally heard comments from people such as ''Oh we don't go on GB trips for the Hockey - we just go for the trip/fun/booze''. Those comments have personally been heard on MORE than one occasion, from a wide spectrum of GB fans. With attitudes like that, your always onto a loser. I went to a GB game once, & to be honest. It was dull, as was the atmosphere.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Oct 19, 2006 20:36:49 GMT
Its the NATIONAL ICE CENTRE!!!!! i wouldnt go to the national water sports centre and expect to see a shed load of motorcars racing each other and little time devoted to water sports.... i wouldnt go to the national space centre and expect to see a shed load paintings done by elephants in africa.... why call it the national ice centre if it isnt??? rename the bloody thing to Nottingham arena devoted to concerts and might give sometime to ice sports if we can be arsed centre..... Quality post, maybe not so much on this occasion but in general
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Post by dad on Oct 19, 2006 20:55:44 GMT
Problem is - the NIC needs to generate money. Events such as these sadly don't, and then it's left upto local tax payers to prop up the NIC. Not saying it's right - it's just the way it is.
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Post by Big Dave Steeler on Oct 19, 2006 21:05:23 GMT
Think the deal that GB teams get from IceSheffild is the free ice-time, whereas playing in Notts would incur costs etc!!
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Oct 19, 2006 21:28:47 GMT
Think the deal that GB teams get from IceSheffild is the free ice-time, whereas playing in Notts would incur costs etc!! Yep. As I understand it, the deal with Ice Sheffield is the same as the one with the NIC... except (I believe) the latter has now run out. Please - someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Tambo
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Post by Tambo on Oct 19, 2006 22:46:23 GMT
I honestly think most people are reading too much into this. IMHO it is purely because of the crowds expected. If they get 200-400 at any of the games I will be surprised and they would just be lost in a hangar like atmosphere in the NIC. NIC is a superb facility but a week long tournament would be absolutley awful with crowds of that nature.
Then again , I hope I am wrong and the place sells out every day
Tambo
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MP
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Post by MP on Oct 19, 2006 22:58:05 GMT
Its the NATIONAL ICE CENTRE!!!!! i wouldnt go to the national water sports centre and expect to see a shed load of motorcars racing each other and little time devoted to water sports.... i wouldnt go to the national space centre and expect to see a shed load paintings done by elephants in africa.... why call it the national ice centre if it isnt??? rename the bloody thing to Nottingham arena devoted to concerts and might give sometime to ice sports if we can be arsed centre..... I would just like to see it devote some more of its time to its name!!!! The NIC does give a great deal of time to ice sports - take a look at the schedule and you'll get some idea of how wide the coverage is. But the NIC is an arena as well as an ice facility and has an arena's running costs - and like it or not these have to be met and the local tax payers can hardly be expected to pick up the tab. I remember the NIC hosting a European tournament which involved the GB mens team - some of the hockey was excellent but the attendance was abysmal for the most part. Not exactly encouraging for the NIC with regard to hosting tournaments - if gate money comes into the equation then it's a non-starter. The only exception would probably be a round of the Continental Cup if Panthers were involved. I'd like to see the NIC host another tournament but if Panthers are not involved then I guess the economics just don't add up.
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Oct 20, 2006 9:50:40 GMT
There also seems to be a general 'apathy' amongst a percentage of people that DO follow Team GB. I refuse to name names, but may times in the past I have personally heard comments from people such as ''Oh we don't go on GB trips for the Hockey - we just go for the trip/fun/p*ss up''. Those comments have personally been heard on MORE than one occasion, from a wide spectrum of GB fans. With attitudes like that, your always onto a loser. I went to a GB game once, & to be honest. It was dull, as was the atmosphere. There's plenty of Panthers fans who go for the social as much as the hockey. Which is why we have the topic of 'how much does winning trophies matter to you?' regularly on theis forum. Think you'll also find that the arena now generally brands itself as Nott'm Arena as NIC means nothing toall but a few.
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Post by chris22 on Oct 20, 2006 10:17:41 GMT
Bids for the major ice sports events come from IHUK and NISA (National Ice Skating Association).
Both have had success in gaining smaller events at Ice Sheffield - U20s World Champs and now the Women's World Champs, plus next year the European Short Track Speed Skating Champs are there.
If you think the NIC are sitting back and doing nothing you're wrong. The competition to host these smaller championships is pretty small, and Ice Sheffield is an ideal size, location and can't be rivalled in Europe for a facility with its capacity. The NIC due to its size has to look at much larger events...for example NIC/NISA submitted a bid for the European Skating Championships, but lost out because the BBC weren't willing to support the bid, whereas the competition had the support of the host broadcaster.
It's all down to competition at the end of the day. Until the BBC support ice sports I can't see IHUK or NISA attracting any events big enough to give the NIC a shout.
If you want a major championships there is always the British Skating Champs in January...thing is there won't be more than 1,500 paying spectators a day!
Chris
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Post by Heanor Lair on Oct 20, 2006 11:50:48 GMT
Why cant the Championships not be held in the Olympic Rink.
I can appreciate the point that MP made about Schedules, but I think 2-3 days? in a whole year is not too much to ask.
The cynic in me would suggest that if the NIC can't make money out of it, they won't be interested. I would like to think I am wrong.
HL
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Post by chris22 on Oct 20, 2006 14:07:01 GMT
Why would a business hold an event which costs them money?
Chris
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Post by keefe a.k.a Donk on Oct 20, 2006 14:13:38 GMT
Dunno, ask ice sheffield?
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MP
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Post by MP on Oct 20, 2006 14:37:16 GMT
Why cant the Championships not be held in the Olympic Rink. Public skating sessions complicate the use of the Olympic pad for multi-day events. The viewing facilities are not too good either with such limited and basic seating. By it's very nature, Ice Sheffield is better suited to small scale events (in terms of spectator numbers). I'm not party to Ice Sheffield's business plan or running costs but ice sports is really their whole reason for existence so it's understandable they look to host these events, whereas the NIC, being a multi-use arena, doesn't feel it can compete.
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Oct 20, 2006 14:51:39 GMT
By it's very nature, Ice Sheffield is better suited to small scale events (in terms of spectator numbers). Like the Steeler games Funnily enough me harping on about the lack of interest from the press for Ice Hockey has still brought in no work on the hockey front for me (that will pay bills that is), however I have received several offers of commisions for this tournament
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