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Post by spik on Sept 19, 2006 19:28:00 GMT
OK...We accept this is not a fully pro sport.It can't be with all the hic-ups involved . We shoot our own foot too many times. Yes, people try their best.But I think that too often 'their best' is 'their personal choice'...rather than what is for the best.
So what is for the best? What are we not doing right now that should be in place.
In this thread I'd like to hear your views , how you would operate Ice-Hockey in this country? Perhaps for example its taking the lead from the London and Romford sites who produce good game info as has been suggested in other threads. Cannot the Elite inform all clubs to do the same?
As this thread title suggests, heres a reason why I think that the points system is wrong with this league we have just now.
Looking at the league as it stands with Belfast on top with 6 points and us (not being bias ,just a viewpoint) with 5. Should not a team who have played one game less and won more games in regulation time be on 7 points WITH Belfast. Why?.....Because 3 points a Reg Win 2 points an OT win and 1 point an OT lose is a good system to produce exciting 'got to win' hockey at the games end and benefits those that try with a reward of the extra point.
Coventry would be split from Cardiff (both presently on same number of games and same 4 points) having one more point due to winning BOTH their games other than Cardiff who had to sneak it in OT.
Great. Produce the exciting win factor by not allowing draws on a night be it from OT or pens. But theres no acknowledgement of a true win.
ps... Panthers official site has 'standings' that are incorrect throughout. WE cant win 2 games but not either in regulation or OT. Two many columns there me thinks.Same discrepencies throughout.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Sept 19, 2006 20:43:00 GMT
personally i think the points system isnt bad but must admit your idea is a good one.
at the minute i think the only way we can take our sport foreward any decent amount is by increasing its publicity, we need to get it out in the open because unless you have a friend or a family member who watches the game and talks about it you really have very little chance of hearing or seeing enough of it to get interested in going to a game.
Sky sports has three channels with very little variety of sports shown considering its airtime, or even better try and get it on terrestrial tv, one of the five channels surely could give us an hour a week or show a game on a sunday, theres bob all else on at five on a sunday.
it needs to have a half decent bit in the national newspapers, obviously its never going to get even a half page spread but a picture and a report from one of the games with the rest of the results at the end would get alot more seeing it then they do in the sport in brief sections.
i know its all been said before and its not as easy as phoning some one and asking but the league needs to put a lot of effort into this, our league is now stable with a good number of teams from all over Britain, plus our attendances equal and sometimes pass those of some football league clubs and now with a major well known sponsor behind it we should now have more ammunition for a good case, its the only stepping stone i can see to making our sport, a very exciting and family orientated one into a half decent player on the British sport arena.
Nick
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Higgy
Les Strongman
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Post by Higgy on Sept 19, 2006 21:12:22 GMT
A few seasons of 10 teams being stable would do the sport a world of good
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Post by Louisa on Sept 19, 2006 21:52:55 GMT
Personally, I think very little is being done to promote this sport. Here's why:
1/ Too few rinks. All the rinks are at saturation point. There is no spare ice in the country due to all the juniors, womens, rec, pro, uni, then theres figure skating, speed skating, general skating, other activities etc. There is just no room for other teams out there to start up. There needs to be investment at this level, more rinks in the existing cities, more rinks in other cities. However, this is not the case with Altrincham being torn down, Cardiff too and Streatham and Oxford rumoured to close. More rinks would make it easier and cheaper to get ice time... more people getting involved...
2/ Getting rid of ZT. Sorry... but I heard fans were leaving due to this. Fans in Telford have actually asked for their season ticket money back. Won't banter on... this is on another thread.
3/ Publicity. I always look in the local and national papers for information on games. Back in the day, the Nott'm Vipers used to get a mention every week. Now, we own the local papers Ladies and Gentlemen. It is up to us to get a mention in the paper!! If you had a game, call them up and get a mention! However, on the National side it is so disappointing to see that ice hockey is under "other sport" on BBC News online. Even then there is very little. It just needs promoting in the right way.
4/ Why on earth is Bowls more interesting to put on the TV than ice hockey?? Until the powers that be get the sport out there, reaching as many people as possible, it will stay as the community that we have currently, gaining the odd 100 fans every year.
Think that is all for now... I am currently in an arguement about these new bloody rules with one of the refs and I can't think straight.
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Post by newham on Sept 19, 2006 22:48:18 GMT
A few seasons of 10 teams being stable would do the sport a world of good and that my friend is the long and short of it.
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Post by Peacock on Sept 20, 2006 1:00:31 GMT
Produce the exciting win factor by not allowing draws on a night be it from OT or pens. But theres no acknowledgement of a true win. Yes there is...you get 2 points. But why reward an OT loss? At the end of the day it's still a loss, so why get a point for it?
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MP
Paul Adey
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Post by MP on Sept 20, 2006 6:19:17 GMT
But why reward an OT loss? At the end of the day it's still a loss, so why get a point for it? No, it's not a loss - the game ended in a draw, hence the point a piece. The OT winner then receives a bonus point. I don't like the system though as it devalues winning the game in regulation time. I don't see what's wrong with having a drawn game - I can live without the "excitement" of O/T and penalties in league games. I'm not keen about giving 3 points for regulation time wins either - in a small league a strong team could soon be out of sight at the top of the table which then reduces the interest in the rest of the league season
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Post by loveday on Sept 20, 2006 6:37:44 GMT
But why reward an OT loss? At the end of the day it's still a loss, so why get a point for it? No, it's not a loss - the game ended in a draw, hence the point a piece. The OT winner then receives a bonus point. I don't like the system though as it devalues winning the game in regulation time. I don't see what's wrong with having a drawn game - I can live without the "excitement" of O/T and penalties in league games. I'm not keen about giving 3 points for regulation time wins either - in a small league a strong team could soon be out of sight at the top of the table which then reduces the interest in the rest of the league season I quite agree. A draw is a draw, (as in football) Only in Cup games do you need a decider. With Belfast having 2 drawn games the current table would then reflect that.
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Post by spik on Sept 20, 2006 7:08:48 GMT
I,m like you MP. Think theres not problem with a draw but also realise that this is Ice-Hockey and I quite like OT or pens when needed (CUP games only maybe?)...... AS has been said 'Regulation' is the point I was making regards extra points. A team WINNING a game only gets as much as those needing more time to do it and a losing OT team DID scrape a draw in regulation.Thus the idea that 3,2,1 is a fair and balance system.
YET, as you say sir the league MAY alter in points awards from top to bottom but does this not offset the fairness of it anyway. We will see by seasons end. It changes the league (top to bottom) presently by one point. Something worked hard for in a game.Plus I think that with more teams it won't show so bad as teams although a distance from others do then consider personal battles mid or bottom of the league if adrift from the top.(ie, Play-off qualification and wooden spoon)....
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Post by Peacock on Sept 20, 2006 9:17:11 GMT
No, it's not a loss - the game ended in a draw, hence the point a piece. The OT winner then receives a bonus point. This is where I disagree with you. Both teams know that a game tied at the end of regulation will go to OT. If you let the other team score in OT, that to me is still a loss.
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Rich
Paul Adey
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Post by Rich on Sept 20, 2006 9:36:56 GMT
I would agree with the theory that its either win lose or draw but personally I think it works really well having the current system! There are lots of problems with UK, LOTS! Going to OT and a shootout really isnt one. Good points on the others Spik but you could go into it for hours, have you considered writing to the league?
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sunbeam
David Clarke
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Post by sunbeam on Sept 20, 2006 12:21:19 GMT
personally i think the points system isnt bad but must admit your idea is a good one. Sky sports has three channels with very little variety of sports shown considering its airtime, or even better try and get it on terrestrial tv, one of the five channels surely could give us an hour a week or show a game on a sunday, theres bob all else on at five on a sunday. it needs to have a half decent bit in the national newspapers, obviously its never going to get even a half page spread but a picture and a report from one of the games with the rest of the results at the end would get alot more seeing it then they do in the sport in brief sections. i know its all been said before and its not as easy as phoning some one and asking but the league needs to put a lot of effort into this, our league is now stable with a good number of teams from all over Britain, plus our attendances equal and sometimes pass those of some football league clubs and now with a major well known sponsor behind it we should now have more ammunition for a good case, its the only stepping stone i can see to making our sport, a very exciting and family orientated one into a half decent player on the British sport arena. Nick Ice hockey gets very small crowds and so gets very little press coverage. Hardly alone. Many bigger sports get limited press coverage (rugby league, 20/20 cricket and darts spring to mind). Sky have 4 sports channels with a fifth coming soon. They have a vast array of sports and have had ice hockey before. Ultimately it's up to the sport to sell itself to tv. They've tried 3 points for a win before. They scrapped it because itr allows a team to run away with the league (as Sheffield did back then.) The sport needs more teams, preferably in the big cities.
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Post by belak on Sept 20, 2006 12:49:07 GMT
A few seasons of 10 teams being stable would do the sport a world of good and that my friend is the long and short of it. Indeed, it's hardly an exciting prospect for any potential investor to have to face the possibility that one <or more> or the teams may go bust during the season. The last season of the ISL saw <IMO> some fantastic games, but the quaility of the league was affected by the fact Manchester & Ayr went tits up half way through
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 20, 2006 15:40:18 GMT
3/ Publicity. I always look in the local and national papers for information on games. Back in the day, the Nott'm Vipers used to get a mention every week. Now, we own the local papers Ladies and Gentlemen. It is up to us to get a mention in the paper!! If you had a game, call them up and get a mention! However, on the National side it is so disappointing to see that ice hockey is under "other sport" on BBC News online. Even then there is very little. It just needs promoting in the right way. Let me see £1000 for me to cover 90mins of premiership football or go do hockey and make maybe £100 a week (2 games) (on a very good week, for 6+ hours and no expense account)
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sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
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Post by sunbeam on Sept 20, 2006 15:50:13 GMT
3/ Publicity. I always look in the local and national papers for information on games. Back in the day, the Nott'm Vipers used to get a mention every week. Now, we own the local papers Ladies and Gentlemen. It is up to us to get a mention in the paper!! If you had a game, call them up and get a mention! However, on the National side it is so disappointing to see that ice hockey is under "other sport" on BBC News online. Even then there is very little. It just needs promoting in the right way. Let me see £1000 for me to cover 90mins of premiership football or go do hockey and make maybe £100 a week (2 games) (on a very good week, for 6+ hours and no expense account) £1000 for 90 mins work? I got more than that when I was a high-class escort!
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Post by ted on Sept 20, 2006 19:12:03 GMT
Let me see £1000 for me to cover 90mins of premiership football or go do hockey and make maybe £100 a week (2 games) (on a very good week, for 6+ hours and no expense account) £1000 for 90 mins work? I got more than that when I was a high-class escort! You were pricing yourself out of the market! ZT.... Not a problem in my eyes, SHOULD be opening the game up more. Its not its new rules... just clamping down harder on infractions of old ones. But how the refs implement it varies greatly... also it seems they havent been told that big checks are allowed. It is still a full contact sport. So biggest thing for me would be higher quality, better trained refs. More press coverage, easy for us to say but this all comes down to what the public want to see. We are still a minority in that respect. The problem stems from not having a stable league system, Teams come and go in the space of seasons. Any outsider would look on it as a sham. So this all goes back to what Higgy said 10 stable teams = possible addition of more stable teams = more likelyhood of attracting some form of media coverage = more money overall for the league = better refs = higher standard of play = better sport = more money. Is that too much to ask!? ! Answer... yes.
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Post by ally85 on Sept 20, 2006 20:33:37 GMT
4/ Why on earth is Bowls more interesting to put on the TV than ice hockey?? It's not but it's presumably much cheaper to cover and has a ready made audience of older people who play bowls themselves and are in during the day when they air it. It does seem though that with a 10-team league that looks to be pretty competitive and a major national sponsor attached that now would be the time to start chasing such coverage again. As someone else pointed out, there's not much else on on a Sunday tea-time (after the 4pm Premiership kick-off has finished that is).
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Post by spik on Sept 21, 2006 6:34:10 GMT
Email,ring or write to the league or any contactable source in this game? We are the supporters. Can't offer help nor inply a better situation could be found doing something else. Refer to 'LOTS' mentioned previously by Rich.
WE did however use this 3 point system before.So I assume they'd be aware of that one anyway. Agree that to keep a 10 team league is a starting point.
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Post by Spooks on Sept 21, 2006 8:19:48 GMT
Its not going to go anywhere until better facilities are inplace throughout the country. Most places are rundown grotty little sheds with poor seating blocked views, plexi glass scratched beyond repair, cramped seating, poor views the list goes on.
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Milkman™
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 21, 2006 8:56:17 GMT
Its not going to go anywhere until better facilities are inplace throughout the country. Most places are rundown grotty little sheds with poor seating blocked views, plexi glass scratched beyond repair, cramped seating, poor views the list goes on. Vicious little circle really. The publicity/TV things boils down to this, and dont burn me down for saying it, I have had this same viewpoint for years (and its what i do for a living) At most 30,000 people watch hockey everyweek, of those statistics would tell us that 7,500 have Sky/Digital TV hardly worth the advertisers even doing a survey to see if costs would be met. Snooker/Darts/Bowls et all, are sold around the world to massive audiences, even in North America (barring the coldest places Hockey is at best the 10th most watched sport). As its been said in this and every similar thread that rears its head every 2 or 3 months its down to the fans and clubs alike to pester and pester, I used to send out 100 pictures a week to the nationals and in the 3 years i was with the club i had 2 pictutres published nationally, one was a editorial piece and the other a fight. Local papers wont pay for pictures, a fact im sure Dave will back up (please Dave)
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Doughnut
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Post by Doughnut on Sept 21, 2006 9:56:13 GMT
I reckon for this league to do significantly better than it is now it needs a stable, top 4 team playing in a good quality arena in London in order to gain a solid fan base. A similar team in Birmingham would help too. I wouldn't put much money on it happening any time soon though.
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Post by Louisa on Sept 21, 2006 16:04:33 GMT
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Lammy
Pat Casey
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Post by Lammy on Sept 21, 2006 16:45:08 GMT
Its not going to go anywhere until better facilities are inplace throughout the country. Most places are rundown grotty little sheds with poor seating blocked views, plexi glass scratched beyond repair, cramped seating, poor views the list goes on. Vicious little circle really. The publicity/TV things boils down to this, and dont burn me down for saying it, I have had this same viewpoint for years (and its what i do for a living) At most 30,000 people watch hockey everyweek, of those statistics would tell us that 7,500 have Sky/Digital TV hardly worth the advertisers even doing a survey to see if costs would be met. Snooker/Darts/Bowls et all, are sold around the world to massive audiences, even in North America (barring the coldest places Hockey is at best the 10th most watched sport). Plus, I would estimate a fair majority of fans are not really that interested in watching neutral games, and when games have been shown on TV (whether it be Sky or terrestrial) they have often been broadcast at weekends or have seemed to coincide with times when your own team is playing. Now whilst I would be willing to set the old video for maybe a crucial neutral game in the play offs (indeed have gone to watch Sheffield, Cov , London when outcomes affect Panthers standings) I cannot really say I would bother for a regular season Basingstoke v Edinburgh game. Add to that the quality of coverage/filming etc due to small rinks and there we go, back in that vicious circle again.
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 21, 2006 17:51:07 GMT
Plus, I would estimate a fair majority of fans are not really that interested in watching neutral games, and when games have been shown on TV (whether it be Sky or terrestrial) they have often been broadcast at weekends or have seemed to coincide with times when your own team is playing. Exactly Lammy, football fans will generally watch any game, especially the Premiership fans, as well as Champions League, LaLiga there is no lack of 'quality' football to watch. However who in their right mind would want to watch 3 hours of Edinborough v Hull on primetime saturday or sunday evening, and more to the point which TV exec would schedule it. If your a Panthers fan, i would guess your a Panthers fan (and not neccesarily a hockey fan) thats why the Lions play in front of such small crowds (sorry Shaggy).
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Milkman™
Les Strongman
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Post by Milkman™ on Sept 21, 2006 17:57:22 GMT
And.......
What other sports do you have such trouble getting a replica shirt of your heroes.
The lace city, hotbed of tailoring, using bangkoks sweatshops tut tut tut
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