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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 16:14:09 GMT
Crikey, a mere mention of the name Simon Morley brings back a few memories, both good and bad, concerning the Panthers forums of the day. Fair play for Kendra for picking up the baton after the official Panthers one was pulled and developing the Panthers Lair which evolved into a credible place for fans to debate in cyberspace. For those not around in those early days of Panthers forums, you don't know how lucky you are to have the Cage. It seemed that most weeks, some flame war had begun which resulted in the forum being pulled temporarily off-line whilst wrists were smacked and offending content was removed. A far cry from what you see here ;D Yes there was some heated debate all those years a go, but alot more characters posted on the forums too. I like the original Cage forum too . Kendras was awesome with lots of features. You didn t get that many threads going off topic as you do right now
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 17:23:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 22:57:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2008 21:31:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 8:00:05 GMT
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Aug 14, 2008 9:16:26 GMT
After reading the article I'm intrigued to know how playing Sharp who in your eyes Jono is not up to Elite standard and shouldn't be playing EIHL hockey is any different to playing the guys on our fourth line who are just as much not up to Elite standard.
Sharp may get zero points this season but fight ten times and generally look after his teammates whilst one of our wonderful young players may get five points and get an applause from the crowd for managing to dump the puck, I know who I think makes the biggest contribution
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Post by ottawa on Aug 14, 2008 9:20:28 GMT
He's more articulate than I thought he'd be! ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png)
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Post by Shorty on Aug 14, 2008 11:06:30 GMT
After reading the article I'm intrigued to know how playing Sharp who in your eyes Jono is not up to Elite standard and shouldn't be playing EIHL hockey is any different to playing the guys on our fourth line who are just as much not up to Elite standard. Sharp may get zero points this season but fight ten times and generally look after his teammates whilst one of our wonderful young players may get five points and get an applause from the crowd for managing to dump the puck, I know who I think makes the biggest contribution So you should not bother developing junior talent then? Sharpe will not be around in a couple of seasons time (certainly not at this level anyway). The majority of the players on our fourth line will develop into far greater players than Sharpe could ever dream about. In your scenario, we would all end up with a fourth line of Andrew Sharpes in seasons to come. Whilst that might make you happy, I doubt that the overall quality of hockey in this country would have moved forward in any way shape or form. In fact it would probably be heading back to the Heineken league days pretty sharpish.....
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Post by Rich on Aug 14, 2008 11:29:47 GMT
After reading the article I'm intrigued to know how playing Sharp who in your eyes Jono is not up to Elite standard and shouldn't be playing EIHL hockey is any different to playing the guys on our fourth line who are just as much not up to Elite standard. Sharp may get zero points this season but fight ten times and generally look after his teammates whilst one of our wonderful young players may get five points and get an applause from the crowd for managing to dump the puck, I know who I think makes the biggest contribution So you should not bother developing junior talent then? Sharpe will not be around in a couple of seasons time (certainly not at this level anyway). The majority of the players on our fourth line will develop into far greater players than Sharpe could ever dream about. In your scenario, we would all end up with a fourth line of Andrew Sharpes in seasons to come. Whilst that might make you happy, I doubt that the overall quality of hockey in this country would have moved forward in any way shape or form. In fact it would probably be heading back to the Heineken league days pretty sharpish..... I dont want to turn another thread into a Sharp debate, but why do you think Sharp wont be around in a couple of years time?Genuine question. There are LOTS of players who the elite league clubs train up and give slots to who go on to contribute nothing, why doesnt Sharp deserve his chance as much as the next young brit? He might knuckle down and work on his game whilst in sheffield and be a decent skating third line grafter who can fight in a few years time and become a target for every team in the league. His hockey isnt likely to be up to scratch, hes been a fighter in the LNAH, learnt his game here and played EPL. Not saying hes guarenteed to become a good player, but obviously Matsos sees something in him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2008 11:35:36 GMT
After reading the article I'm intrigued to know how playing Sharp who in your eyes Jono is not up to Elite standard and shouldn't be playing EIHL hockey is any different to playing the guys on our fourth line who are just as much not up to Elite standard. Sharp may get zero points this season but fight ten times and generally look after his teammates whilst one of our wonderful young players may get five points and get an applause from the crowd for managing to dump the puck, I know who I think makes the biggest contribution Whilst I agree that the guys on our fourth line are probably not up to Elite standard just yet, they have talent which is being nurtured by the Panthers in the hope that they can become fixtures in the team in the future. They have been rewarded for their talent. Andrew Sharp has no talent, yet has been rewarded with an Elite League contract. Doesn't send out a very good message does it?
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Post by Number 9.1 on Aug 14, 2008 11:52:40 GMT
... Andrew Sharp has no talent, yet has been rewarded with an Elite League contract. Doesn't send out a very good message does it? I'd imagine that junior players with any genuine hockey talent wouldn't want to get an Elite League slot if all they were hired for was to trade punches with import goons so I wouldn't have thought it sends any meaningful message at all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2008 11:57:59 GMT
... Andrew Sharp has no talent, yet has been rewarded with an Elite League contract. Doesn't send out a very good message does it? I'd imagine that junior players with any genuine hockey talent wouldn't want to get an Elite League slot if all they were hired for was to trade punches with import goons so I wouldn't have thought it sends any meaningful message at all. I was thinking more along the lines of talanted junior's seeing a talantless goon get a contract isn't going to motivate them to try that bit harder to make the top league.
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Post by Number 9.1 on Aug 14, 2008 12:18:40 GMT
Okay, but I think if you were a junior looking at Brits in the Elite League, you'd quickly see that Sharpe's in a minority of one.
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Post by Shorty on Aug 14, 2008 13:52:58 GMT
There are LOTS of players who the elite league clubs train up and give slots to who go on to contribute nothing, why doesnt Sharp deserve his chance as much as the next young brit? He might knuckle down and work on his game whilst in sheffield and be a decent skating third line grafter who can fight in a few years time and become a target for every team in the league. His hockey isnt likely to be up to scratch, hes been a fighter in the LNAH, learnt his game here and played EPL. Not saying hes guarenteed to become a good player, but obviously Matsos sees something in him. You are answering your own question by saying lots of players go on to contribute nothing. These are the guys who are clearly not good enough to progress in the game but filling rosters on some of the poorer teams. This guy falls into that category. He will not progress his game though ice time - he will hardly get any. He has purely been signed on a two way to add a bit of muscle to the Steelers bench. The majority of his training will be with the Scimitars I imagine (I do not know if they share training sessions with the Steelers) He is 24 years old, so hardly learning his trade is he? A bit of a difference to some of the younger Brits that teams are playing. If Steelers wanted to give a Brit a chance to develop, why not Stephen Wallace who is the same age and who will have more talent in his little finger?
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Post by ted on Aug 14, 2008 14:32:13 GMT
I think Rich made the comparision before, Sharpe carved his career as a fighter, not a finesse player.
Hes played in the LNAH, the toughest fighting league out there I think most would agree? Hes worked hard at his side of the game.
I have no doubt Matsos will try and improve his game but he will get no more or less ice time and probably wont contribute many less points than Neily or Ferrera.
Only time will tell I suppose.
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 14, 2008 15:48:58 GMT
Again, nothing new is being said here. We've already had the Andrew Sharp debate in the Andrew Sharp thread. It would be a shame to have this thread descend in a similar way. I suggest if you wish to reply to the post made on TCW you do so in the form marked "Leave a Reply" at the bottom of the post on TCW.
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Post by ted on Aug 14, 2008 15:54:11 GMT
can I ask why a debate (that wasnt turning into a flame fest) was closed? and theres threats on this one?
Fair enough there is repition but does that matter? It doesnt make a great read but there were good points being raised, and there is here.
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Post by Doughnut on Aug 14, 2008 16:03:26 GMT
can I ask why a debate (that wasnt turning into a flame fest) was closed? and theres threats on this one? Fair enough there is repition but does that matter? It doesnt make a great read but there were good points being raised, and there is here. I've not noticed a good point on this subject being raised for quite a while. Good points being repeated maybe, but not raised. The other thread was turning into a flame fest, I was about to lock it myself but someone else beat me to it. Repeating an argument over and over again is not debate.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2008 17:28:50 GMT
can I ask why a debate (that wasnt turning into a flame fest) was closed? and theres threats on this one? Fair enough there is repition but does that matter? It doesnt make a great read but there were good points being raised, and there is here. I've not noticed a good point on this subject being raised for quite a while. Good points being repeated maybe, but not raised. The other thread was turning into a flame fest, I was about to lock it myself but someone else beat me to it. Repeating an argument over and over again is not debate. To be honest I've been enjoying the sensible debate on this thread without it turning into the usual flame war, but you're the mod and it's your call.
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Aug 14, 2008 22:03:11 GMT
Again, nothing new is being said here. We've already had the Andrew Sharp debate in the Andrew Sharp thread. It would be a shame to have this thread descend in a similar way. I suggest if you wish to reply to the post made on TCW you do so in the form marked "Leave a Reply" at the bottom of the post on TCW. I brought it up on this thread doughnut so I apologise for going off topic, although hiding the debate here seems to mean it doesn't get hijacked by posters just wanting to argue over stupid points
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Aug 14, 2008 22:14:36 GMT
After reading the article I'm intrigued to know how playing Sharp who in your eyes Jono is not up to Elite standard and shouldn't be playing EIHL hockey is any different to playing the guys on our fourth line who are just as much not up to Elite standard. Sharp may get zero points this season but fight ten times and generally look after his teammates whilst one of our wonderful young players may get five points and get an applause from the crowd for managing to dump the puck, I know who I think makes the biggest contribution So you should not bother developing junior talent then? Sharpe will not be around in a couple of seasons time (certainly not at this level anyway). The majority of the players on our fourth line will develop into far greater players than Sharpe could ever dream about. In your scenario, we would all end up with a fourth line of Andrew Sharpes in seasons to come. Whilst that might make you happy, I doubt that the overall quality of hockey in this country would have moved forward in any way shape or form. In fact it would probably be heading back to the Heineken league days pretty sharpish..... That was not my point, what I was saying was I couldn't understand why Sharp was getting so much stick for his ability when thats not even his role yet players on our fourth line who aren't massively younger than him are still getting similar points tallies yet add naff all else and are loved by some sections of our fans The way I see it, Sharp, probable points tally 0-5, a heavyweight fighter and enforcer Average Panthers fourth line Brit, probable points tally 2-7 and not much else Well it's pretty obvious who brings more to a team and Sharp is much better at his job (fighting) than any of our fourth liners who apparently contribute some how so therfore doesn't deserve any stick imo. Sheffield have made a good addition to there roster and have pretty much sorted out there biggest weakness
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Post by Yotes on Aug 14, 2008 22:23:17 GMT
Sharp, probable points tally 0-5, a heavyweight fighter and enforcer Out of interest, does Sharp count as a heavy? Only going by what it says on HockeyDB, but they have him at 6'1, 205? Bergin-ish territory. As I say, that info might be old.
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Post by Rich on Aug 14, 2008 22:36:42 GMT
There are LOTS of players who the elite league clubs train up and give slots to who go on to contribute nothing, why doesnt Sharp deserve his chance as much as the next young brit? He might knuckle down and work on his game whilst in sheffield and be a decent skating third line grafter who can fight in a few years time and become a target for every team in the league. His hockey isnt likely to be up to scratch, hes been a fighter in the LNAH, learnt his game here and played EPL. Not saying hes guarenteed to become a good player, but obviously Matsos sees something in him. You are answering your own question by saying lots of players go on to contribute nothing. These are the guys who are clearly not good enough to progress in the game but filling rosters on some of the poorer teams. This guy falls into that category. He will not progress his game though ice time - he will hardly get any. He has purely been signed on a two way to add a bit of muscle to the Steelers bench. The majority of his training will be with the Scimitars I imagine (I do not know if they share training sessions with the Steelers) He is 24 years old, so hardly learning his trade is he? A bit of a difference to some of the younger Brits that teams are playing. If Steelers wanted to give a Brit a chance to develop, why not Stephen Wallace who is the same age and who will have more talent in his little finger? Ok, since everyone else has carried on I will. I am asking you the questions hyperthetically, I have my opinion and there arnt many people on here who could change it so I genuinely intrested. Just thought id clear that up! I think tbh youve answered your own question with the last sentence... "If Steelers wanted to give a Brit a chance to develop, why not Stephen Wallace who is the same age and who will have more talent in his little finger?" Exactly... what does it tell you? To me it says to play for an elite league team you have to help the team, the team isnt there to help you. This guy isnt just some talent less kid who has got a golden ticket, he has fought the toughest guys in the world in the LNAH and will bring something to the team, something you can say "hes earnt his slot and his money". He may not get any icetime yet, nobody will know until the season begins but Sheffield can afford him and he doesnt take up an import slot. Its either have him or not, hes not taking the slot of any up and coming kids. If/when they are good enough they will get a chance to play in the top 2 leagues, it certainly isnt Sharps fault if they dont!
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Post by Number 9.1 on Aug 14, 2008 23:57:52 GMT
... Sharp, probable points tally 0-5 ... The upper end of that range would be a terrific season by his standards: HockeyDB lists him as amassing a total of 5 points in the last four years.
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Post by Number 9.1 on Aug 14, 2008 23:59:35 GMT
Ok, since everyone else has carried on I will. I am asking you the questions hyperthetically, I have my opinion and there arnt many people on here who could change it so I genuinely intrested. Just thought id clear that up! I think tbh youve answered your own question with the last sentence... "If Steelers wanted to give a Brit a chance to develop, why not Stephen Wallace who is the same age and who will have more talent in his little finger?" Exactly... what does it tell you? To me it says to play for an elite league team you have to help the team, the team isnt there to help you. This guy isnt just some talent less kid who has got a golden ticket, he has fought the toughest guys in the world in the LNAH and will bring something to the team, something you can say "hes earnt his slot and his money". He may not get any icetime yet, nobody will know until the season begins but Sheffield can afford him and he doesnt take up an import slot. Its either have him or not, hes not taking the slot of any up and coming kids. If/when they are good enough they will get a chance to play in the top 2 leagues, it certainly isnt Sharps fault if they dont! Well put.
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