Milan 2-1 Liverpool

[sawchuk]

oldman said:

just because some people are singing a daft song that most clubs have taken as there own why does that still produce this hatred almost a decade later, cant think that liverpool fans sing it these days with any real hatred for forest, even if somebody does sing it in work to wind you up.

This thread is getting pretty silly, Milan won, we played better than last time when we won it thats football move on.

I am getting back to ice hockey threads now.

What a cop out! You were the one asking people to justify their feelings towards Liverpool, yet when faced with the fact you own set of fans still chant about hating a club they haven't played in 8 seasons & are two leagues below, you back out claiming the thread has got silly.

If that is the case, then you helped contribute.

[oldman]

ok shin justify the hatred of a club because there was a song put together 20 odd years ago, nearly every club has used that first line about forest and then added two other teams of their choice to hate, west brom- wolves, villa, middlesboro- sunderland, newcastle, get the point,

so if your justification for hating liverpool is an old song that starts with nottingham forest then you guys need a hobby, thankfully i am not that petty, i have moved on from the eighties?

If you hated the amount of trophies we have won i could accept that but not some song, does forest have any songs about derby or shuff united or leicester.

This is a bit like me saying i hate newcastle because of the striped shirts,

i said it was silly because we started off talking about football and end up with you guys moaning about a terrace song as the reason for hating everything about a football team and their fans.

After reading all that if i bother to watch a football match here next season it will be county. Appears they have football fans not bitter guys in some sort of time warp.

[Dan]

Saying that Liverpool hate Forest because they sing 'we hate Nottingham Forest' is about the same as saying you hate Liverpool because of striped shirts? Rrright...

Let it lie fella, i know plenty of Liverpool fans that still hate us. Our decline in the last ten years hasn't stopped us being hated by your lot, no matter how little you want to accept it.

[Deleted]

upshall said:

Saying that Liverpool hate Forest because they sing 'we hate Nottingham Forest' is about the same as saying you hate Liverpool because of striped shirts? Rrright...

Let it lie fella, i know plenty of Liverpool fans that still hate us. Our decline in the last ten years hasn't stopped us being hated by your lot, no matter how little you want to accept it.

Thats his problem upshall, he thinks theres no reason to hate each other now just cause we haven t played each other for years

[oldman]

upshall i tried to let it lie but shin thought that was a cop out,

but to be honest i would be amazed if liverpool fans need to hate a team and their fans who are three leagues below us, we have enough rivalry with everton, manure, chelski, arsenal, bolton and man city ( plus warnock hated us so include shuff unt as well) to keep us occupied thanks.

if you know liverpool fans who still hate forest then they are sad and need a reality check as well after all these days there is more chance of chester playing forest soon than liverpool.

would just like to add one thing been to anfield 8 times last season never heard that old song once think the kop has moved on.

Now can i get back to the cricket season!

[oldman]

wrong pidge dont believe you need to hate each other at all. Real sportsfans dont need to hate at all,

let me guess pidge you hate australians because they stuffed us recently at cricket,rugby union and league as well.

[Dan]

oldman said:

upshall i tried to let it lie but shin thought that was a cop out,

but to be honest i would be amazed if liverpool fans need to hate a team and their fans who are three leagues below us, we have enough rivalry with everton, manure, chelski, arsenal, bolton and man city ( plus warnock hated us so include shuff unt as well) to keep us occupied thanks.

if you know liverpool fans who still hate forest then they are sad and need a reality check as well after all these days there is more chance of chester playing forest soon than liverpool.

would just like to add one thing been to anfield 8 times last season never heard that old song once think the kop has moved on.

Now can i get back to the cricket season!

I'll ignore the several pointlessly childish little digs there and concentrate on the main point at hand.

Rivalries are forged over decades, not over a decade. Liverpool fans still hate Forest for what Cloughie said regarding Hillsbrough (let's not get into that though) and the huge rivalry that developed through our tussles throughout the seventies and eighties. We hate Liverpool because they denied us entry into Europe five or six times after the Heysel years. Those aren't things that are going to go away.

A mere ten years of not playing each other aint gonna change that. Maybe it would with the new fans, certainly not with the older ones.

[oldman]

upshall you seem like a decent bloke but you do seem to want to rewrite history,

as far as i remember cloughie had as anyone would nothing but sympathy for the events at hillsborough, so dont get that bit , i have quite a few freinds who support like me have supported liverpool for a long time and i have never heard anyone say a bad word about Clough.

I think you will find liverpool fans have hatred for mckenzie the ex editor of the s-- and you may know you still cant get people reading that gutter rag in liverpool. I would also look far more towards the south yorkshire police for another area for Liverpool hatred and one assistant constable who was not fit for the post. (the guy got away with it though)

Second point been down this road before Liverpool F.C. did not keep you out of Europe some mindless hooligans mostly with Cockney accents did, i was at the game some where genuine liverpool fans the majority coudnt find Liverpool never mind Anfield.

Also we had the EUFA double standards of lets not look at why we put a final on in a ground not fit for the job, a point admittted by johansson afterwards and terrible policing and stupid lack of crowd segregation, i think also you will find that Juve and Liverpool have both contributed millions to the fund set up for the victims of Heysal.

Equivalent violence goes on today in Italien football go to a lazio ,roma , or that sicilien derby and see the ultra's in action people are dying att matches. no action taken there.

I do appreciate you use the word rivalries now rather than hatred, the other bit of we denied you entry into Europe not sure about that you didnt win the cup from what i can remember, the league champs that year were ironically Everton so at best you may have qualified for the inter city or eufa cup cant remember when they changed the name. In those five or six times let me know whether you would have been in Europe anyway.

Also could be wrong because i only check Liverpool stats but did we really have all these mighty tussles for 20 years 70's-80's cant remember i know maybe about maybe 7-8 years when Clough built that good team around Shilton in goal and Kenny Burns etc but the rest of the time it was the usual suspects, who were challenging Liverpool for the title.

I do remember being at Arsenal though at the end of one season and failing to win so Derby won the league instead, and i also recall Arsenal winning the league and Everton winning and Aston Villa winning the league and us winning the rest of the time.

I feel some of this deep set bitterness with Forest Fans is a symptom of the natural anger of fans of a once great club languishing in what is theoretically the old third division looking for scapegoats for this disaster.

That is not a dig upshall because if you read any of my posts i already said how much i admired Cloughie and the Forest style of Football during these European Cup days.

As for the last bit about older fans surely the majority of fair minded older and more mature fans would have moved on from this inconceivable and mindless bitterness towards any football club.

I only hope we never get this destructive and irrational attitude with Panthers Ice Hockey Supporters.

[MP]

oldman said:

I only hope we never get this destructive and irrational attitude with Panthers Ice Hockey Supporters.

Amen to that Oldman, amen to that.

"Hate" is a horrible thing - there's no place for it in sport. Fans can be passionate at games without descending into the tribalism that accompanies football at times.

[Rob #12]

mountainpanther said:

"Hate" is a horrible thing - there's no place for it in sport. Fans can be passionate at games without descending into the tribalism that accompanies football at times.

Let me to mention when I say I hate Forest, I don't mean in the traditional manner, but let's call it a strong dislike. I have friends as Forest fans and even Forest fans I don't know, I wouldn't go up to them and say "I hate you".

One question, aimed at anyone with the 'hate is a bad thing' theory, at Panthers game, did you join in the chant that went "If you all HATE the Steelers clap your hands?". Hmm...

I think we all need a history lesson here as to why the rivalry between Liverpool started and why it got made stronger (Clough's hillbrough comments, the FA Cup semi final games, etc).

Wikipedia said:

Forest fans also hugely dislike Liverpool, almost to the point of hatred. This rivalry began when Forest knocked them out of the European Cup in the first round in 1978, en route to the first of their two consecutive European titles.

One of Forest's chants of those days was Are You Watching, Are You Watching, Are You Watching Liverpool! because Liverpool used Forest's kit and nickname 'The Reds' from Nottingham Forest when Liverpool was formed, and Forest had just knocked them out in the First Round (Liverpool were the current champions when this happened) and become a major force in Europe. Liverpool FC fans still sing a chant starting with We hate Nottingham Forest! as testimony to the long running bad blood between the two clubs. Forest fans in turn are credited in starting the "You'll Never Work Again" take on Liverpool's famous You'll Never Walk Alone anthem.

Unfortunately for Forest they are no longer competing at the top for European titles and such unlike Liverpool therefore the Liverpool fans can claim to have had the better of Forest during recent years.

One last thing, not trying to discredit what you say about not hearing it at Anfield, but I have sung it every single time I have been to an LFC game. The only time I got up this year was Macabi Haifa, I was in the Kop and sung it at least 5 times ( ). I also joined in two years ago when I went to Istanbul. Where do you usually sit for games mate?

Oh and the reason Clough is hated by Liverpool fans is because he took those words written by the Sun as gospel and went around publically putting down Liverpool fans for what they did and called us bascially, scum. He then had to apologise when it was found to be not true, but that didn't stop us hating him for not getting his facts right.

[sawchuk]

oldman said:

upshall i tried to let it lie but shin thought that was a cop out,

In future, if you don't want protracted arguements then don't ask other posters for justificiation on their motives. YOU were the one asking for such things, not I or anyone else.

[oldman]

protracted argument yes mindless drivel about twenty years ago and myths built up of who said what no, you are going round in circles and getting nowhere we lost a cup final big deal at least we were in it!.

Carry on with your thread now i am moving on suggest you lot do as well, before this thread gets locked through boredom.

[NickThePanther44]

one thing i have never understood about football, why different fans hate each other

sounds pretty stupid and childish to me

[Rob #12]

bestwoodpanther said:

one thing i have never understood about football, why different fans hate each other

sounds pretty stupid and childish to me

It's not stupid or childish mate. Have you been a fan of a football team out of interest? It's not like an Ice Hockey environment, it's a little more than that.

I will repeat two things.

1. Have you ever joined in the "If you all hate the Steelers clap your hands?"

2. It's not hate in the true sense, it's a rivally where you would do anything to get one over your rival.

I guess it can be confusing as to what the words mean.

[NickThePanther44]

dont get me wrong mate i wasnt particularly referring to people on here. i was a Forest ST holder until converting to Panthers and still have a general interest.

my comment was aimed at the actual hate of people supporting other clubs, for example i was in town last year some time and a few of my mates had found this little blow up sheep and were throwing at to each other (stupid i know), later on one of my mates was met near the toilets by three lads who before hitting him asked if he was from Derby, these people must generally be quite stupid though or at least blind because they couldnt see the other fifteen of us standing less than five metres away, biggest mistake they made that week for sure.

i just really struggle to understand the mentality of people that could quite happily kill or seriously injure someone just because they support an opposing team. for me hate is a strong word. there is a bloke at my work place who has repeatedly said he wouldnt spit on a liverpool fan if they were on fire, and i actually believe him, its that sort of thinking i cant work out.

but yes i have sung that particular song

Nick

[loonypeter]

bestwoodpanther said:

dont get me wrong mate i wasnt particularly referring to people on here. i was a Forest ST holder until converting to Panthers and still have a general interest.

my comment was aimed at the actual hate of people supporting other clubs, for example i was in town last year some time and a few of my mates had found this little blow up sheep and were throwing at to each other (stupid i know), later on one of my mates was met near the toilets by three lads who before hitting him asked if he was from Derby, these people must generally be quite stupid though or at least blind because they couldnt see the other fifteen of us standing less than five metres away, biggest mistake they made that week for sure.

i just really struggle to understand the mentality of people that could quite happily kill or seriously injure someone just because they support an opposing team. for me hate is a strong word. there is a bloke at my work place who has repeatedly said he wouldnt spit on a liverpool fan if they were on fire, and i actually believe him, its that sort of thinking i cant work out.

but yes i have sung that particular song

Nick

I think Robs second point is pretty accurate in describing the vast majority of the "hate" at football matches. I would add though that the vast majority of football fans only "hate" the rival team, not the rival fans.

Of course you do get some idiots who take it far too seriously, like the ones you described, who give the rest of football fans an unfair reputation.

Steelers fans have always been quite bemused at panthers fans singing that song, but i suppose we are holier than thou ;D

[sawchuk]

oldman said:

protracted argument yes mindless drivel about twenty years ago and myths built up of who said what no, you are going round in circles and getting nowhere we lost a cup final big deal at least we were in it!.

Carry on with your thread now i am moving on suggest you lot do as well, before this thread gets locked through boredom.

But I say again, you were the one asking for Pidge to justify his feelings towards Liverpool, but meh let's leave it.

As for the final, I thought Milan were poor and fortunate to win but showed how and why Italian strikers are so good. They don't track back or run around trying to close the opposition down, they stand up field, and score when they get the chance.

If only England strikers did that.

It's obvious Liverpool need a top quaility goal poacher, who that is, I don't know.

[Rob #12]

bestwoodpanther said:

dont get me wrong mate i wasnt particularly referring to people on here. i was a Forest ST holder until converting to Panthers and still have a general interest.

my comment was aimed at the actual hate of people supporting other clubs, for example i was in town last year some time and a few of my mates had found this little blow up sheep and were throwing at to each other (stupid i know), later on one of my mates was met near the toilets by three lads who before hitting him asked if he was from Derby, these people must generally be quite stupid though or at least blind because they couldnt see the other fifteen of us standing less than five metres away, biggest mistake they made that week for sure.

i just really struggle to understand the mentality of people that could quite happily kill or seriously injure someone just because they support an opposing team. for me hate is a strong word. there is a bloke at my work place who has repeatedly said he wouldnt spit on a liverpool fan if they were on fire, and i actually believe him, its that sort of thinking i cant work out.

but yes i have sung that particular song

Nick

Yeah, what you say there in that example is the bad side of football. The people that take the hate word to the extreme. Though it is fair to say that luckily those people are in the minority, which is good considering they are morons.

It's the same though as watching a violent film. The majority of people can take it as it is meant to be taken and enjoy it is entertainment. But there are some who will take it's meaning to the extreme and use the basis of the film to go out and kill people in the same manner.

Like I said, I do hate Forest and love to see them struggle. However, I would never dream of hurting another Forest fan or being violent in any way. I have been to hundreds of matches and never one seen violence, I have been lucky.

Like in that chant mate, the same way we say we hate the Steelers, that's the same way I hate ManUre, Everton, Forest, Chelsea etc.

[Rob #12]

loonypeter said:

Steelers fans have always been quite bemused at panthers fans singing that song, but I suppose we are holier than thou ;D

It's not just us who sing that song...as you guys found out at the PlayOffs!! ;D

[Rob #12]

sawchuk said:

It's obvious Liverpool need a top quaility goal poacher, who that is, I don't know.

Tevez, Villa, Torres, Eto'o, Berbatov

Any of the above will do nicely ta.

[sawchuk]

aspertarion said:

sawchuk said:

It's obvious Liverpool need a top quaility goal poacher, who that is, I don't know.

Tevez, Villa, Torres, Eto'o, Berbatov

Any of the above will do nicely ta.

I thought the media were trying to get Berbatov to ManYoo

[loonypeter]

aspertarion said:

sawchuk said:

It's obvious Liverpool need a top quaility goal poacher, who that is, I don't know.

Tevez, Villa, Torres, Eto'o, Berbatov

Any of the above will do nicely ta.

Kuyt and one of those would probably be the best strike partnership in the Prem.

How much have Liverpool got to spend? Ive heard figures as high as £39million for Berbatov!

[NickThePanther44]

good post Rob, agree.

Berbatov is a damn good player but 39m is i would imagine just total pants, unless Liverpool are going to start paying silly money like Chelski. heard a strong rumour that Keane is off to Sunderland so who knows how that could affect Berba next season, they had a brilliant partnership.

would love to see Eto'o in the Prem!!!

Nick

[sawchuk]

bestwoodpanther said:

would love to see Eto'o in the Prem!!!

The player has apparently claimed a move to England doesn't interest him. It was mentioned on Sky this week.

[Rob #12]

sawchuk said:

aspertarion said:

Tevez, Villa, Torres, Eto'o, Berbatov

Any of the above will do nicely ta.

I thought the media were trying to get Berbatov to ManYoo

Aye, they are, doesn't mean I don't want him at Anfield. You never know in this game.

As to how much Liverpool have to spend, god knows. I have heard from £50m right up to three times that amount. I would expect it to be more than £50m though with todays prices.

Liverpool could start paying silly money for players, but I think that goes against the Rafa ethos. I think he is going to be creative with the players going out and get up some good deals.

Either way, I hope he is serious when he says he wants top spot. None of this potential or future players thanks. I want players who are good now. I am guessing some good buys from the Spain 1st team, like Villa or some of his Valencia team mates like Ayala, Albelda, Baraja, Joaquín, Vincente. Any of those would be awesome signings. Tho Eto'o has basically challenged Barca to get rid of him after there were rumours he has been branded a trouble maker.

Who knows, but I am looking forward to the summer transfer market, that's for sure.