sunbeam
David Clarke
The Panthers don't do league titles. Not even Carlsberg can manage that!
Posts: 3,862
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Post by sunbeam on Dec 3, 2004 13:47:18 GMT
So Panthers go off and play in a Euro league? I assume we'd need a wage cap of £800k to compete at that level comapared to the current £200k cap. Plus the travelling costs for away matches would be dramatically higher. Could we afford it? The most we can get into the NIC is 6500 and the most Nottm fans we've ever had for a game I believe is 6000. That was v Cardiff a few years ago. We've only filled the NIC with the help of 1000 Steelers fans and we currently average 4000. So you're assuming the people of Nottm wish to watch us play, and possibly lose to, European teams. And how much would tickets cost? If this Euro league failed then where would the Panthers play? This could destroy the franchise. Somehow I suspect Neil Black knows a little bit more about business and hockey than you do HL. And he ain't alone!   A European Cup could work however but the Panthers would have to win the league to qualify. We don't exactly have a great track record do we? If Sheffield fans had written on a forum what HL had then they'd have been slaughtered as being 'typical, arrogant Squeelers'! I wonder what HL would have said if Simms had come out with these ideas..........  |
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ktglitz
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 587
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Post by ktglitz on Dec 3, 2004 14:10:08 GMT
Not obssesed with the money aspect, merely making the point that if we support financially unviable outfits we will eventually all go down the tube. You already are supporting clubs that can be seen as financially unviable, perhaps the axe should be brought out at home to remove some of that dead wood you are so keen to get rid of? What makes these clubs financially viable? The Capitals are financially viable, have survived since their inception, have never gone bust or been given handouts from the league. Shrewd financial planning and management is where it is at, something that the Capitals have proven to be excellent at. London and Basingstoke were both helped out by the league last season so are they viable? Are Belfast actually viable whilst carrying a massive (albeit heavily reduced debt thanks to their jammy ability to get the creditors to accept a reduced payment)? Do they qualify as dead wood if they can't stand on your own feet? The Capitals can, as can most of the other BNL clubs so who is the more viable? |
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Post by girdeaux on Dec 3, 2004 14:29:01 GMT
Some of them have buisness plans that were written on the back of fag packets!! I can't answer that one, you must have inside information HL? Do you think that the Panthers are going to subsidise all these new teams. No, and that particualr area needs to be addressed if Newcastle et al are to join the EIHL. Hell, its bad enough having to keep Steelers afloat without giving out more handouts. GMB Panthers have a financial interest in how our loathed rivals are likewise doing financially. I'm not saying we should assist them all the time, but an attitude of " balls to them" isn't productive is it...? Lets have the Panthers in a European League and let the others sink or swim (most likely the former) Panthers have the dosh, lets go to Europe and compete with the big boys. HL I'll treat that remark with the contempt it deserves |
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Post by Heanor Lair on Dec 3, 2004 15:19:47 GMT
If Sheffield fans had written on a forum what HL had then they'd have been slaughtered as being 'typical, arrogant Squeelers'! I wonder what HL would have said if Simms had come out with these ideas.......... Have to disagree Sunbeam. I dont think it is at all arrogant to have aspirations for the Panthers that go beyong the Elite League. Secondly, Simms has similar views as myself  in that he has said in as many words you can't have a league thats not finacially viable. Its not arrogant to say that some clubs rely on other clubs, thats a known fact. Sorry I dont seem to be joining the group hugs as far as welcoming some BNL teams to the EIHL but I want a financially stable structure where everyone an be financially viable. Utlimately I want Panthers to perform regualrly on the European stage. I make no apologies for that. Regards HL |
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Post by girdeaux on Dec 3, 2004 15:28:29 GMT
I dont think it is at all arrogant to have aspirations for the Panthers that go beyong the Elite League. Neither do I, but I certainly don't wish for Panthers to trample over everyone else to achieve it. Sorry I dont seem to be joining the group hugs as far as welcoming some BNL teams to the EIHL but I want a financially stable structure where everyone an be financially viable. WTF I don't think anyone is suggesting that all BNL clubs come straight into the EIHL, and financial stability is a key yes, but not with the attitude of " I'm alright Jack" Utlimately I want Panthers to perform regualrly on the European stage. I make no apologies for that. But for that too happen, Panthers need to either win the league on a consistent basis or a similar scenario as to what lead to them being invited to play at Sheffield's expense has to occur. But your wish for them to go into a European league & sod the rest, is very arrogant |
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Post by Heanor Lair on Dec 3, 2004 15:39:09 GMT
But your wish for them to go into a European league & sod the rest, is very arrogant No, my wish is for the Panthers to go into a European League, to became a bigger team, to attract more media interest,etc. Its not a case of sod the rest, its a case of moving your own organisation forward. At the moment only the Panthers seem to have such aspirations. Sheffield turned down the Continental Cup, other teams in the past have been not completley enthusiastic towards top classEuropean compertition. British Ice Hockey should not have concerns about having a league without the Panthers, and thats the problem, the concern is that Ice Hockey could fall apart if a ''big'' team left the fold. This is my argument. Teams should not have to depend on each other for financial stability, so if a team moves on, the others continue to operate, bring new teams into the ranks, etc. Sorry to everyone if it comes over as arrogant and selfish, but I want my club to forward (which they are), be forward thinking (which they are) and to grow in stature and prominance in Europe. HL |
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Post by girdeaux on Dec 3, 2004 15:46:21 GMT
Sorry to everyone if it comes over as arrogant and selfish, but I want my club to forward (which they are), be forward thinking (which they are) and to grow in stature and prominance in Europe... ...and I don't care what happens to hockey as a sport in this country, as long as the Nottingham Panthers are okay. |
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ktglitz
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 587
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Post by ktglitz on Dec 3, 2004 15:54:03 GMT
This is my argument. Teams should not have to depend on each other for financial stability, so if a team moves on, the others continue to operate, bring new teams into the ranks, etc. But according to Gary Moran the Panthers HAVE to play Sheffield x times a year to be viable and maintain that stability. Is that not being dependant on another team for financial stability? So the one thing that you would like to see happening doesn't even apply to the Panthers according to their own GM. |
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Post by Heanor Lair on Dec 3, 2004 16:00:29 GMT
But according to Gary Moran the Panthers HAVE to play Sheffield x times a year to be viable and maintain that stability. Is that not being dependant on another team for financial stability? So the one thing that you would like to see happening doesn't even apply to the Panthers according to their own GM. Reread the quote Caps, GM doesnt say Panthers have to play Sheffield x times a year to be viable, hes talking in terms of league viabilty (remeber EIHL get a % of gate reciepts). HL |
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator 
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Dec 3, 2004 17:49:43 GMT
No, my wish is for the Panthers to go into a European League, to became a bigger team, to attract more media interest,etc. Its not a case of sod the rest, its a case of moving your own organisation forward. At the moment only the Panthers seem to have such aspirations. Sheffield turned down the Continental Cup, other teams in the past have been not completley enthusiastic towards top classEuropean compertition. British Ice Hockey should not have concerns about having a league without the Panthers, and thats the problem, the concern is that Ice Hockey could fall apart if a ''big'' team left the fold. This is my argument. Teams should not have to depend on each other for financial stability, so if a team moves on, the others continue to operate, bring new teams into the ranks, etc. Sorry to everyone if it comes over as arrogant and selfish, but I want my club to forward (which they are), be forward thinking (which they are) and to grow in stature and prominance in Europe. HL And do what? Compete with European teams? - all very well on an occasional basis - Continental Cup etc.... but just that? I don't know about you, but I like going to away games..... and damned few of those I'd be able to afford on the continent! Similarly - what about away fans coming here? We'd get smidgens....... Kiss bye-bye to the whole social side of it as well. One has to wonder where all the money would come from - imports, vastly increased travel/accomodation costs, etc..... It's all very well saying that moving the Panthers in to Europe would be "moving forward" - but would it really? If the great British public doesn't give a toss about our hockey teams playing on their own doorstep, what makes you think they'd be any more interested in them playing overseas? There'd be no more (much less, I'd have thought) interest in coming to home games, and ditto for any potential television audience. There is no sound financial, logistical or publicity foundation for moing any single British team into Europe, apart from tournos like the Continental Cup. Moving the whole LEAGUE there, maybe (although I still doubt it) - but then we'd be dragging along all those teams that you don't think worthy of keepng up with us, wouldn't we? Anyway - the various leagues over on the continent aren't exactly trouble-free.... teams going bust left, right and centre. Out of the frying pan, into the fire? It's simply unrealistic with the sport the way that it is. |
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ktglitz
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by ktglitz on Dec 3, 2004 18:06:14 GMT
Reread the quote Caps, GM doesnt say Panthers have to play Sheffield x times a year to be viable, hes talking in terms of league viabilty (remeber EIHL get a % of gate reciepts). HL Apologies, my mistake. So what he is saying is that the league needs those games to happen to help prop up any teams in the league that aren't self sufficient (London and Basingstoke!) as that %age is used for this purpose. Either way it proves that there are teams that aren't self sufficient and that the league is bailing them out, something that you don't want happening. |
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Post by Heanor Lair on Dec 3, 2004 18:27:00 GMT
I seem to be in a minority of 1  I wish no ill of any other team, I'd like to make that quite clear, but MY own vision for the Panthers is on the European stage, even though at this point in time it appears improbable and impracticle. HL |
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ktglitz
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 587
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Post by ktglitz on Dec 3, 2004 18:43:14 GMT
I seem to be in a minority of 1 I wish no ill of any other team, I'd like to make that quite clear, but MY own vision for the Panthers is on the European stage, even though at this point in time it appears improbable and impracticle. HL Nothing wrong with having those aspirations for your team and your passion and ability to defend your position is wonderful. See you tomorrow night in Fife? We'll be on the same side for that one!!!! ! |
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Post by girdeaux on Dec 3, 2004 18:44:02 GMT
I seem to be in a minority of 1 I wish no ill of any other team, I'd like to make that quite clear, but MY own vision for the Panthers is on the European stage, even though at this point in time it appears improbable and impracticle. HL Then why say "let the others sink or swim"  |
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Atko
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by Atko on Dec 3, 2004 20:14:56 GMT
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ktglitz
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 587
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Post by ktglitz on Dec 3, 2004 20:37:12 GMT
But that is just another reactionary statement made to the press, just like Hull's following on from the Vipers announcement. |
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Post by heja on Dec 3, 2004 20:43:11 GMT
i also wish for panthers to go onto the europian stage.
but it is a WISH ( like HL) yes its not practical now but it is a WISH that i and HL would like to happen.
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MP
Paul Adey
Hail hurts and rain is cold. Summer in the mountains
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Post by MP on Dec 3, 2004 23:29:16 GMT
I don't think we are ready for a European league at the moment.
Some form of European cup competition would be good but the tounament model wouldn't be suitable. The cost of travel for teams to individual games would likely be prohibitive.
The Elite League is an entertainment business and needs to stay stable and strong. Unlimited expansion may not be an attractive proposition at the moment.
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Post by Heanor Lair on Dec 4, 2004 7:11:24 GMT
Then why say "let the others sink or swim" Anton In hindsight a very inappropiate statement to make , and not really what I want for the clubs, whcih I hope I made clearer on later threads. I apologise for that. HL |
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Post by girdeaux on Dec 4, 2004 7:58:13 GMT
Anton In hindsight a very inappropiate statement to make , and not really what I want for the clubs, whcih I hope I made clearer on later threads. I apologise for that. HL Paul, there's no need to apologise. If that's what you think/thought, then so be it. This is a forum & as such we aren't going to agree all the time. It doesn't mean we're bad people... James |
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