Re: Now Hull Stingrays for the Elite League?.

[fightygirl]

oooek! Its all go now eh?

[Optic]

good news for them

[MP]

Don't lets get carried away just yet!

Hull have only said they will have to consider applying to join the EIHL in light of the difficulties that are looming for the BNL.

The situation may become complex. The EIHL has set store in achieving stability and may not want to risk that by allowing an influx of teams. A 10 team league is probably the ideal at the moment.

Politics will no doubt play a part too - IHUK are likely to get involved somewhere along the line.

I just hope those who can influence the outcome regarding the future ot the BNL/EIHL are getting to grips with the issues - we don't want another summer like the one before last.

[heja]

could IHUK stop teams from swicthing leagues??

[ktglitz]

CRITIC said:

could IHUK stop teams from swicthing leagues??

No, IHUK have no real authority over the leagues in the country at this moment in time. Once the BNL affiliation runs out after this season then perhaps IHUK can put things in place so that they can have some influence and control.

[Deleted]

Hull would be another decent aquisition to the elite league ! The more teams the better so keep them coming

[Spooks]

Sooner have Hull than Manchester, if push comes to shove.

[Rhino#13]

I thought the IHUK were the ones who were demanding both leagues merge the season before last, so surely their involvement if more teams start jumping to us would be to go for that angle again.

How many teams does the BNL have anyway ? If too many jump ship, isn't their league gonna be unworkable ? In which case, better to merge I would've thought. Better than some teams not having a league to play in at all.

[Fraggle]

MP said:

Don't lets get carried away just yet!

Hull have only said they will have to consider applying to join the EIHL in light of the difficulties that are looming for the BNL.

The situation may become complex. The EIHL has set store in achieving stability and may not want to risk that by allowing an influx of teams. A 10 team league is probably the ideal at the moment.

Politics will no doubt play a part too - IHUK are likely to get involved somewhere along the line.

I just hope those who can influence the outcome regarding the future ot the BNL/EIHL are getting to grips with the issues - we don't want another summer like the one before last.

Agreed MP - THAT Summer was hellish! However it IS before Chrismas and we've got 3 teams already re-considering their postions for NEXT season - not waiting til the end of the season. I hardly dare hope that AT LAST the one league system may happen..but you know what, it just might!

More teams can only be a good thing for all involved and I think the crossover games have shut up some doubters who thought there was some huge gulf between the BNL and Elite league. There isn't. Merge to one league? Let's do it! ;D ;D ;D

[Heanor Lair]

Right, here we go.

14 team EIHL

Basingstoke
Belfast
Bracknell
Cardiff
Coventry
Dundee
Fife
Guilford
Hull
London
Manchester
Newcastle
Nottingham
Sheffield


Each team plays the other twice at home and twice away hence 26 home and 26 away games = 52 games.

Have the Challenge Cup in its present format

52 games would also allow for an Aherne Tournament to raise the profile ofUK Hockey in Europe.

I dont buy into the Sheffiled and Nottingham need to play each other at least 6x times a season nonsense for Ice Hockey to be viable. This rubbish is spouted by officals up the road who need the support of Panthers fans to be commercially viable. If they can't be viable on 2 big derby crowds thats their problem, not Panthers.

For the Playoffs:

2 Groups of 6

Top 2 teams in each group go for the Semi finals of the Playoff Championship

Following 2 teams in each group go for a Championship shield semi finals

Last 2 teams in each group go for a Championship Plate semi finals

Have a 3 day Playoff weekend:

Friday and Saturday Semi finals

Sunday: Final of the Championship, Shield and Plate.

HL

[heja]

you can not have friday and saturday semi finals.

to much of an advantage for the other team and not enough fans will go on a friday.

[ktglitz]

Heanor said:

Right, here we go.

14 team EIHL

Basingstoke
Belfast
Bracknell
Cardiff
Coventry
Dundee
Fife
Guilford
Hull
London
Manchester
Newcastle
Nottingham
Sheffield

There seems to be one BNL team missing from that list that have been replaced by a team without a rink!

[Spooks]

Well at least i will save some money, some of those BNL crossover games are the worst games of hockey i have ever seen. Unless they attract a higher standard of player and backroom staff then it will fall flat on its face. Its a catch 22 but it has to be done to move hockey, just that i wont be helping it on by paying to see boring games.

[Heanor Lair]

CRITIC said:

you can not have friday and saturday semi finals.

to much of an advantage for the other team and not enough fans will go on a friday.

Why wont fans go on Friday?

It wasnt a problem at Amiens for Panthers and Milan fans

[Jinty]

CapsWebmaster said:

There seems to be one BNL team missing from that list that have been replaced by a team without a rink!

That's what I thought too CW, maybe Edinburgh are not wanted after all!!!

[Heanor Lair]

I thik you'll find that despite what some BNL clubs are saying, they wont be EIHL members next year.

Some of them have buisness plans that were written on the back of fag packets!!

Do you think that the Panthers are going to subsidise all these new teams.

Hell, its bad enough having to keep Steelers afloat without giving out more handouts.

Lets have the Panthers in a European League and let the others sink or swim (most likely the former)

Panthers have the dosh, lets go to Europe and compete with the big boys.

HL

[Admin]

Controversial as ever HL?!

[sits back and awaits the flaming to commence]

[Heanor Lair]

BJ said:

Controversial as ever HL?!

[sits back and awaits the flaming to commence]

Nah my friend.

Just a realistic outlook on the world of icehockey (and you dont see that to often these days

HL

[Samxpenguin]

Heanor said:

I thik you'll find that despite what some BNL clubs are saying, they wont be EIHL members next year.

Some of them have buisness plans that were written on the back of fag packets!!

Do you think that the Panthers are going to subsidise all these new teams.

Hell, its bad enough having to keep Steelers afloat without giving out more handouts.

Lets have the Panthers in a European League and let the others sink or swim (most likely the former)

Panthers have the dosh, lets go to Europe and compete with the big boys.

HL

Lets go to Europe....hmm...FORGET THAT! I'd rather play against Sheffield, Coventry, Belfast, London, Newcastle....than Milan, Oslo...or whoever. European league means...no away travel for me, i can barely afford to get to Coventry never mind Madrid. A European Cup is a great idea...adn European league...no chance!!!

Lets have the Panthers in a European League and let the others sink or swim (most likely the former)

So lets let all the teams who may have problems fold, no help....because Nottingham are lucky enough to have an Arena and a large fanbase....imagine if we went into freefall...what would you think if Coventry fans went...'well you got yourself there'? Who says the smaller clubs arn't well run...just because they don't have as big fanbase, or can't afford to play in the Elite League?

I understand that there were problems with the merger, personally i have no idea what happened there, although people have mentioned Fife and Guildford. But surely we shoudl try and sort out a British league not just jump to europe? Take each application on its own merits, make sure theres a decent financail plan, and try and keep as many teams alive

'Sink or Swim'....well if they all sink we may only have a few teams to play against, then you'd be moaning

[ktglitz]

Heanor said:

I thik you'll find that despite what some BNL clubs are saying, they wont be EIHL members next year.

Some of them have buisness plans that were written on the back of fag packets!!

Do you think that the Panthers are going to subsidise all these new teams.

Hell, its bad enough having to keep Steelers afloat without giving out more handouts.

Lets have the Panthers in a European League and let the others sink or swim (most likely the former)

Panthers have the dosh, lets go to Europe and compete with the big boys.

HL

And you have seen those business plans have you HL?
If so, how? Are you a director of the EIHL or perhaps you sit on the management board or are a member of the finance committee?
What makes you think any of these teams want subsidising? From what I hear the EIHL does enough of that already to the current teams so perhaps bringing in some teams who don't want handouts and who have proved year in and year out that they can survive without cash injections due to good financial practices would be a way to set some good examples for the EIHL teams??

[Heanor Lair]

Sorry if I'm upsetting some folks, but I dont see why Panthers should have to fork out to keep other hockey clubs going.

Panthers is a succesful franchise, its survival of the fittest, thats how it is.

Of course I would be saddened if some fans lost their clubs or their clubs stuggled, but I want whats best for my team, I dont think thats unrealistic.

I didnt see too many fans from other teams flooding this forum with meaasges of support when we were having problems with the NIC ice agreement.

The Panthers organisation and its fans have had to put up with some rubbish from other parts of ice hockey - how many times have we had to listen to the Big Bad Panthers rubbish over the years.

Let UK IceHockey get along fine without us. Am I cynical in saying that most ice hockey couldnt give a damn about Nottingham Panthers, but hey they want the money the Panthers give them , and the money the large away support stuffs into other teams coffers.

You never know if clubs have to be self suffiecnt it may be just a good thing for them.

HL

[martin]

I think that you have a good point in principle HL, although you are probably overstating it.

The "more the merrier" attitude that seems to be prevalent is totally misguided. There are clubs in our league as it is who are not pulling their weight in terms of league viability. We need to make certain that we do not introduce any more. Also, as the EIHL is relying to an extent on the big gate receipts generated by high profile games like Panthers vs Steelers we should be cautious before allowing a reduction in these types of game.

Apart from that we need all teams to be proactive in seeking league viability. So teams that are being held back by a tiny stadium should get it sorted in order that they can bring in some proper money. Conversely, teams playing out of an arena they can't afford should seek a better solution (a la Manchester).

Then, when every team is doing its bit for the league we can start to worry about the health of BNL teams.

[ktglitz]

Heanor said:

Sorry if I'm upsetting some folks, but I dont see why Panthers should have to fork out to keep other hockey clubs going.

Who says the Panthers would be forking out? Surely any team joining the EIHL will be accepted on the merits of their business plans (I notice you still haven't answered my question on that one). Edinburgh have survived 6 seasons in the BNL without requiring any handouts from the league so why could this not also be true in the EIHL if they went that way? Do you have a problem with the EIHL helping out its own teams then? Perhaps they should be ejected too as they aren't self sufficient?

Panthers is a succesful franchise, its survival of the fittest, thats how it is.

In that case you will get very lonely playing with yourselves every season!

Of course I would be saddened if some fans lost their clubs or their clubs stuggled, but I want whats best for my team, I dont think thats unrealistic.

So is it best for the Panthers if all the "non-self sufficient" teams fold, that would shrink the EIHL to start with then. Or is it that you would only be saddened if it was teams that don't play in the EIHL that went to the wall thus protecting the Panthers?

I didnt see too many fans from other teams flooding this forum with meaasges of support when we were having problems with the NIC ice agreement.

Maybe thats becuase when all this was happening there were very few fans from one league or the other who were members of the other leagues forums! It's only the advent of the crossover games that has started to get people signing up for more team forums in the other leagues.

The Panthers organisation and its fans have had to put up with some rubbish from other parts of ice hockey - how many times have we had to listen to the Big Bad Panthers rubbish over the years.

Yes and so have the other teams too! Anybody remember that comment about not wanting the likes of Hull and Edinburgh playing in our league? Can you remember which team boss said that? Most people envision Sheffield and Nottingham as being the ogres mainly out of ignorance but occasionally there are things to back this up. Let's face it, NO league has covered itself in glory and has spouted rubbish about the other league in one way or another.

Let UK IceHockey get along fine without us. Am I cynical in saying that most ice hockey couldnt give a damn about Nottingham Panthers, but hey they want the money the Panthers give them , and the money the large away support stuffs into other teams coffers.

I believe you are VERY wrong there. Most people in ice hockey DO give a damn about the Panthers, and all the other teams too and not becuase of money (a topic you seem to be obsessed with)

You never know if clubs have to be self suffiecnt it may be just a good thing for them.

I agree that teams should be self sufficient but then isn't the Panthers themsleves that always say that they must play Sheffield x times a year to break even? That isn't self sufficiency, that is reliance on others, somthing that you seem to abhor! Let's not go down that road. How many EIHL clubs are truly self sufficient (I assume Belfast are still paying of their massive debts while trying to keep on the level) and how many rely on sponsorship/backing to keep them going (London/Basingstoke)?

Working together and compromise is the only way to take our sport forward. Arrogance and lack of flexibility will caused massive damage or even kill it altogther.

[Heanor Lair]

Caps

Not obssesed with the money aspect, merely making the point that if we support financially unviable outfits we will eventually all go down the tube.

My own club has had wise financial management, and is on a firm footing. Over the years there are many clubs who have had far larger attendances than the Panthers (remember how small Lower Parliment was), but they have gone belly up or are struggling.

Sorry the reality is that you cant carry dead wood, thats the way things are, its the harsh financial reality of sport.

HL

[Warren]

As far as I can tell all clubs want a full league merger at the end of the day. The fact of the matter is that IT will have to be a 2 teir set up. If all clubs form the BNL and the Elite Legue do merge then thats nigh on 15 / 20 teams. That is too many for a single league. This isn't down to teams wanting to be in x amount of high profile games, It's down to logistics. In the 8 team EIHL set up there was barely an intrest for half the season as some temas had been left cold and struggleing to find points let alone earn them. If there was a 1 league system the gulf would just be created.

To anologise in the Premiership, you would say that only 3 teams of the 20 have a real chance of the title. Another 10 say are figting for the european spots. The remainder are trying to stay in the top flight. This is what would happen if we were in a single league. There are 2/3 teams who would be in the running for the title, There would be a set amount of teams running for play off places, the remainder making up fixtures. Hence making the 2 league version evan better as they will have relgation battles to try and stay up.

Now with Newcastle sensing that the merger is going to happen they have decided to get into the EIHL so that if there is a split of Elite league 1 and 2 then all the Elite league clubs are put in 1 and the rest in league 2. Now with them jumping ship, other clubs hands are being played for them. Forcing them to make the jump before they are ready or face droping a league or folding.

As for the thread... Hull in the Elite League? I wouldn't say no.. but I would say no to a 14 tema league.