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Post by jd on Oct 21, 2023 20:51:18 GMT
Boys against men, we are an average team.
Sheffield are a good team, so many good players.
We looked short of ideas and Rok needs to sort his 5 hole
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Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 759
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Post by Joe on Oct 21, 2023 21:05:05 GMT
Out of interest how do you create excitement and buildup when we’re not blowing teams away offensively and there’s not the level of physicality compared to 10 years ago, also add our shocking record against Steelers in recent years That’s exactly what I’ve said in the opening part of above, the crowd sizes of 12/13 when we were winning games, with the likes of Lepine etc, were no real different to the crowd sizes of 11/12 and 13/14 seasons. Marketing the team, promoting games and tickets works. When they’re left to passively sell themselves without any advertising etc then the sales slope off. How do you do that? Ask the man who got a CEO job largely on the basis of the work he’d done in Dundee boosting crowd numbers, building rivalries etc. I personally don’t think Pacha is doing anything drastically different now compared to under Moran but as you say it all comes back to on ice product and that’s where Pacha was successful, from what I’ve seen he didn’t do anything revolutionary in Dundee he just built competitive/entertaining teams which was an easier job compared to here where he has to build a team that challenges for the league all season.
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Post by jd on Oct 21, 2023 21:07:27 GMT
Let’s be honest, why pay the best part of £30 to watch an average team?
We turn the puck over so much, basic passing doesn’t happen. We are an average team but NB takes his money
Sheffield have quality throughout. 23, 6, 65, 75, 14, 10. They all knew to shoot 5 hole, shudra scored like that.
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Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 759
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Post by Joe on Oct 21, 2023 21:09:36 GMT
Boys against men, we are an average team. Sheffield are a good team, so many good players. We looked short of ideas and Rok needs to sort his 5 hole I think we’re average compared to Steelers, best case scenario we battle it out with Devils for 3rd
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Post by jd on Oct 21, 2023 21:25:18 GMT
We won’t finish 3rd, Devils are better.
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Post by awooga on Oct 21, 2023 21:25:28 GMT
I think what the club does with personnel will tell the tale for the season.
We need to get to a position (as Sheffield have done) where there is a decent core.
If we start again every year, there’s no chance.
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Post by bobness on Oct 21, 2023 21:31:50 GMT
I think what the club does with personnel will tell the tale for the season. We need to get to a position (as Sheffield have done) where there is a decent core. If we start again every year, there’s no chance. Let’s face it, anyone expecting anyone to create an EIHL winning team out of nothing this summer is deluded. A top 4 finish would be a decent season I think, but then keep the core, as Devils, Giants and Steelers seem to do, not wholesale change every year, which to me speaks of poor recruitment and/or retention issues. That’s 1-10 in the 2 Steelers cup home games. Ouch.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Oct 21, 2023 21:35:23 GMT
They were much the better side and deserved the win, although I wouldn't say they played particularly well. We're very easy to skate through, or at least were tonight. Watching from the hospitality boxes is the way to go though, my usual block 5 is ruined forever
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Post by samjohnson345 on Oct 21, 2023 22:05:53 GMT
Really disappointing and a bit disheartening. I would love to know our home record since the start of the 21/22 season…I’d be surprised if it was more than 40%.
Sheffield routinely come in here and are just so much better/ more dangerous and swarm all over us. Can’t fault the effort tonight, but just not really good enough unfortunately. How many other teams have no spare imports in the league (not including netties)? Frustrating really, sums it up that Steelers spare, who’s barely seen the ice all season scores their first, and their utility player, playing on D their fourth.
Don’t really know what point i’m making or if it’s coherent, just frustrated to watch tonight as a fan.
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Post by pantherlee on Oct 21, 2023 22:23:12 GMT
I think what the club does with personnel will tell the tale for the season. We need to get to a position (as Sheffield have done) where there is a decent core. If we start again every year, there’s no chance. I’ve been saying this all along and it’s absolutely key. Keep chopping and changing coaches and wholesale squad changes and we’ll be stuck at square one no matter who we have
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Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 759
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Post by Joe on Oct 21, 2023 23:34:27 GMT
Really disappointing and a bit disheartening. I would love to know our home record since the start of the 21/22 season…I’d be surprised if it was more than 40%. Sheffield routinely come in here and are just so much better/ more dangerous and swarm all over us. Can’t fault the effort tonight, but just not really good enough unfortunately. How many other teams have no spare imports in the league (not including netties)? Frustrating really, sums it up that Steelers spare, who’s barely seen the ice all season scores their first, and their utility player, playing on D their fourth. Don’t really know what point i’m making or if it’s coherent, just frustrated to watch tonight as a fan. Blaze and Stars are the only other two which says it all really but the line from Pacha about giving Parades everything he needs to succeed didn’t exactly last long
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Post by spik on Oct 21, 2023 23:42:15 GMT
Really disappointing and a bit disheartening. I would love to know our home record since the start of the 21/22 season…I’d be surprised if it was more than 40%. Sheffield routinely come in here and are just so much better/ more dangerous and swarm all over us. Can’t fault the effort tonight, but just not really good enough unfortunately. How many other teams have no spare imports in the league (not including netties)? Frustrating really, sums it up that Steelers spare, who’s barely seen the ice all season scores their first, and their utility player, playing on D their fourth. Don’t really know what point i’m making or if it’s coherent, just frustrated to watch tonight as a fan. Including the 21/22 season versus Sheffield Challenge 18/09/21 2-3 27/08/22 4-5ps 10/09/23 4-3 winCup 16/10/21 3-4ot 13/11/21 1-3 25/09/22 3-2ot win22/10/22 4-6 30/09/23 0-6 21/10/23 1-4 League 27/12/21 1-4 26/02/22 3-7 19/03/22 3-0 win27/12/22 1-5 04/02/23 3-4ot 04/03/23 1-3 In addition, play offs at home of course in 22-23 season lost 4-7 Won 3 lost 12 Easy calculation won 25% lost 75% opps that's wrong.....spik, should be 20% against 80%A very quick count up of Home games concludes 31 home wins against 34 losses to date.
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Post by wgray on Oct 21, 2023 23:53:55 GMT
Really disappointing and a bit disheartening. I would love to know our home record since the start of the 21/22 season…I’d be surprised if it was more than 40%. Sheffield routinely come in here and are just so much better/ more dangerous and swarm all over us. Can’t fault the effort tonight, but just not really good enough unfortunately. How many other teams have no spare imports in the league (not including netties)? Frustrating really, sums it up that Steelers spare, who’s barely seen the ice all season scores their first, and their utility player, playing on D their fourth. Don’t really know what point i’m making or if it’s coherent, just frustrated to watch tonight as a fan. Including the 21/22 season Challenge 18/09/21 2-3 27/08/22 4-5ps 10/09/23 4-3 winCup 16/10/21 3-4ot 13/11/21 1-3 25/09/22 3-2ot win22/10/22 4-6 30/09/23 0-6 21/10/23 1-4 League 27/12/21 1-4 26/02/22 3-7 19/03/22 3-0 win27/12/22 1-5 04/02/23 3-4ot 04/03/23 1-3 play offs at home of course in 22-23 season lost 4-7 Won 3 lost 12 Easy calculation won 25% lost 75% Sheffield have took full advantage of the cup format over the last few years and seem to have developed a strangle hold over us as a club which has continued through all the games we’ve played against them. Didn’t watch it tonight but they’re admittedly in a better place than us in terms of on ice-personnel, maybe it’s worth bringing in a player or two who can ruffle a few feathers and can play as well. The rivalry is as dead as a Dodo but our results again them are an embarrassment, especially at home. Time to be proactive Omar
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Post by kievthegreat on Oct 22, 2023 0:17:35 GMT
Including the 21/22 season Challenge 18/09/21 2-3 27/08/22 4-5ps 10/09/23 4-3 winCup 16/10/21 3-4ot 13/11/21 1-3 25/09/22 3-2ot win22/10/22 4-6 30/09/23 0-6 21/10/23 1-4 League 27/12/21 1-4 26/02/22 3-7 19/03/22 3-0 win27/12/22 1-5 04/02/23 3-4ot 04/03/23 1-3 play offs at home of course in 22-23 season lost 4-7 Won 3 lost 12 Easy calculation won 25% lost 75% Sheffield have took full advantage of the cup format over the last few years and seem to have developed a strangle hold over us as a club which has continued through all the games we’ve played against them. Didn’t watch it tonight but they’re admittedly in a better place than us in terms of on ice-personnel, maybe it’s worth bringing in a player or two who can ruffle a few feathers and can play as well. The rivalry is as dead as a Dodo but our results again them are an embarrassment, especially at home. Time to be proactive Omar To show how dead the rivalry was, the large Steelers contingent sat on their hands most of the night despite comfortably beating us. Seems even they don't really care. It was a remarkably flat atmosphere during play with very little of anything, let alone passion or venom.
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 579
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Post by DMS on Oct 22, 2023 7:35:37 GMT
I think what the club does with personnel will tell the tale for the season. We need to get to a position (as Sheffield have done) where there is a decent core. If we start again every year, there’s no chance. I’ve been saying this all along and it’s absolutely key. Keep chopping and changing coaches and wholesale squad changes and we’ll be stuck at square one no matter who we have I totally agree that we need to start building a core and have a bit more long term planning. However looking at this season in isolation and specifically the league form. We have actually had a decent start, we could do with making some tweaks or an addition (running a spare/extra isn’t the worst idea). In the past we make these decisions too late and can never catch up or keep up with teams.
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Post by Bagheera on Oct 22, 2023 7:39:00 GMT
I think what the club does with personnel will tell the tale for the season. We need to get to a position (as Sheffield have done) where there is a decent core. If we start again every year, there’s no chance. I’ve been saying this all along and it’s absolutely key. Keep chopping and changing coaches and wholesale squad changes and we’ll be stuck at square one no matter who we have Absoloutly. We need to find a core, but that relies on getting recruitment right one year and then having the players we want to return also willing themselves. The last few seasons have been a write off, but even in those there were players worthy of coming back. They would've just been bottom 6 players. At least though it wouldn't have been all change though. This years team looks a little better, but it'll soom become like the previous two should results slide. When seasons are as bad as they have been it's very difficult for people to see the positives in there, the whole team becomes labelled as garbage and every player is seen as poor. In reality that's not the case. Some have just been Panthered, some are round pegs in square holes and some are just playing to high in the line up for their ability. I've been banging this drum the last few years and its quite simple. It's not the individual players that are the problem. If's building both a team with enough too end quality and most importantly, balance. Now in to a 3rd season where we are 2 top 6 forwards short and where most of the forwards are just to similar. Even if we are going to buy cheap and not get the quality then at least mix it up. If there is one thing that sits squarly at Pachas door it's that. However tightly Black hold the purse strings, Pacha still builds the team. He can still sign a cheap agitator instead of a cheap 3rd line skill player. He can still sign a cheap hard hitter rather than a cheap 3rd line skill player. As I said earlier though, there are some better players in this team and if we can make a few of the right additions it could become quite competitive pretty quckly.
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brian
Jade Galbraith
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Post by brian on Oct 22, 2023 8:11:50 GMT
Embarrassing. They took the puck off us anytime they liked. We are only doing well in the league because we have played more matches than the big teams and have only played the smaller ones. God help us against Belfast.
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Post by bobness on Oct 22, 2023 8:26:27 GMT
Boys against men, we are an average team. Sheffield are a good team, so many good players. We looked short of ideas and Rok needs to sort his 5 hole This post perhaps unwittingly sums up several bigger posts. Steelers have a core of very good players who are in the nth year at the Steelers, boosted by a well recruited new cohort. To get Balmas (for example) late on is looking a great signing. (I've just noticed he's 14 for 17 in the circle too!) And a coach in his 4th year in the EIHL? Thus they are a much better team currently. See also Belfast. There's no great surprise that these two teams are the pick of the bunch just now. That's where Panthers need to get to, but it will be a miracle if Panthers get there immediately. As I've said, I'm already way happier than last year, but, as some don't need to point out but probably will, last year was a nadir in a few ways. Paredes at least has the team playing the way he said it would. Fast and skilful. There's already some excellent signs. There are some rough edges, D especially, but I'm sure he isn't blind to those. Will we get some reinforcements? Watch this space. A bit of time is what he needs, IMHO. Personally, from what I've seen so far, I'm willing to give him that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2023 8:35:05 GMT
Ahhh the old debate about keeping a core..
It's all valid when imports actually want to stay but they just want to get away from Nottingham the moment the season has ended..
Can someone tell me the last time panthers retained at least 5 imports?
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 579
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Post by DMS on Oct 22, 2023 8:36:04 GMT
Embarrassing. They took the puck off us anytime they liked. We are only doing well in the league because we have played more matches than the big teams and have only played the smaller ones. God help us against Belfast. I agree with your assessment of the game last night. Steelers are ahead of us in every department. To this seasons results…Those smaller teams are ones we struggled to beat last year and routinely suffered heavy defeats it seemed. In all reality we are not competing with Belfast or Sheffield. However we have an opportunity to try and build a new core/momentum that’s why it’s important we act sooner rather than later with an addition and some tweaks so we could realistically be aiming for as high a finish as possible through this season and not scrapping in the lower third like last.
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brian
Jade Galbraith
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Post by brian on Oct 22, 2023 9:00:40 GMT
That's true DMS . The top 3 seem set already . I agree a few new additions, if they have some quality , means the Panthers will not suffer the losses to the smaller teams like last year.
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 22, 2023 9:07:42 GMT
Embarrassing. They took the puck off us anytime they liked. We are only doing well in the league because we have played more matches than the big teams and have only played the smaller ones. God help us against Belfast. While I might not dispute that they took the puck off us too easily, just a couple of points of clarification re the league position: Belfast are the only 'big team' to have played less games than us. Sheffield have played more and Cardiff the same number. The only other teams to have played less than us are Fife, Dundee and Glasgow. Of them, only Fife have a theoretical chance of overtaking us on points by their fifth game (unlikely given their opposition in those games). And with regard to playing the big teams: Belfast have only played Cardiff among the 'big' 4 once so far - winning. Their 5th game is also not a 'big' 4 team Sheffield have only played Cardiff once among the 'big' 4 - losing. We have only played Cardiff once among the 'big' 4 - winning. It is this win that places us above Cardiff in league position Cardiff have had the 'toughest' league start of the 'big' teams - playing 3 'big' teams 3 times in five games and losing twice. So 60% of Cardiff's opponents in their first 5 games are 'big' 4 teams. Belfast and Sheffield 20% like us. Directly comparable. So our start to the season is currently directly on a par with Sheffield and Belfast in terms of 'softness' of opponent. And only Belfast and Fife can still theoretically leapfrog us in points. Meaning the absolute worst case scenario we could be in at the 5 games point for all teams is 5th. But that would require Fife to beat both their next two opponents (Sheffield and Nottingham) which history would suggest is certainly no lock. So realistically we'd probably be 4th. On current points % won we're tied for 3rd So whilst it's true we've had an easier schedule than Cardiff, Guildford and Coventry in particular its not really true to say our position in the league isn't currently valid versus teams like Giants and Steelers that you'd expect to challenge for the title.
You can only beat the opponents in front of you - and our run of opposition so far is similar to both Steelers and Giants. And there are only two teams who can leapfrog us with games in hand, and only one is likely too.
After 20 games then we'll see where we are (I'd expect Cardiff to climb as their schedule balances out) but right now where we are is on merit.
But, as always, JMHO
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 22, 2023 9:11:50 GMT
Boys against men, we are an average team. Sheffield are a good team, so many good players. We looked short of ideas and Rok needs to sort his 5 hole This post perhaps unwittingly sums up several bigger posts. Steelers have a core of very good players who are in the nth year at the Steelers, boosted by a well recruited new cohort. To get Balmas (for example) late on is looking a great signing. (I've just noticed he's 14 for 17 in the circle too!) And a coach in his 4th year in the EIHL? Thus they are a much better team currently. See also Belfast. There's no great surprise that these two teams are the pick of the bunch just now. That's where Panthers need to get to, but it will be a miracle if Panthers get there immediately. As I've said, I'm already way happier than last year, but, as some don't need to point out but probably will, last year was a nadir in a few ways. Paredes at least has the team playing the way he said it would. Fast and skilful. There's already some excellent signs. There are some rough edges, D especially, but I'm sure he isn't blind to those. Will we get some reinforcements? Watch this space. A bit of time is what he needs, IMHO. Personally, from what I've seen so far, I'm willing to give him that. Yes, we need to have a chance to build on any improvement. Constantly knocking the house down to the foundations every season and then trying to build it from scratch in one go with a new firm it's inevitable we'll more likely to have a leaky roof (or defensive organisation) in comparison to teams that have the same roof joists on the same walls for several season and are just filling in any missing tiles
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Post by blackandgold73 on Oct 22, 2023 9:19:22 GMT
Ahhh the old debate about keeping a core.. It's all valid when imports actually want to stay but they just want to get away from Nottingham the moment the season has ended.. Can someone tell me the last time panthers retained at least 5 imports? The year we won the league comes to mind off the top of head. 6 returning Imports 8 returning Brits
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Post by PantherTom on Oct 22, 2023 11:07:46 GMT
We are just so so lightweight! Got bullied again last night! It’s embarrassing in your own barn!
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