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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 21, 2018 10:33:09 GMT
They said "two" players a fortnight ago. It's normal,bring two in late,win the play offs and save Neilsons neck.......Again ! 🙄 So you don't want us to win the PlayOffs? I don't think anyone doesn't want to win playoffs, cup etc... and that you're putting words in his mouth.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Jan 21, 2018 11:44:58 GMT
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Post by texpef on Jan 21, 2018 12:14:06 GMT
Given the very large gap in time relatively wise between releasing shalla and these (allegedly more than one) non arriving imports i would argue panthers management have very successfully managed expectations of any players arriving, going from expecting NHL standard players at the start of shalla departure to now accepting schulz or worse... Seems pretty good business to me especially when you add in all the saved wages of what must have been a top earner at the club. Win win as they say...
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grrm
Pat Casey
Posts: 223
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Post by grrm on Jan 21, 2018 12:23:43 GMT
This is just standard Panthers mode of operation - "Silence" and any issues just melt away!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 21, 2018 13:01:24 GMT
They said "two" players a fortnight ago. It's normal,bring two in late,win the play offs and save Neilsons neck.......Again ! 🙄 So you don't want us to win the PlayOffs? I want them to win every game,but i doubt i will be there to see the play offs if they do. Panthers do this regularly,spend money far too late, just in an attempt to win the short game trophies. Why can’t we spend the right money in the summer and sign some quality for the full season. People count the minor trophies that save Neilsons neck, but he constantly fails and badly in the only one that matters. It just covers up the clubs shortcomings and makes some people think all is rosy again just because we won a four game trophy. Black is more than happy to throw a fair chunk of money at Europe or boosting a run at the play offs,but that’s not what i pay £1000 worth of season tickets for. The only trophy that really matters is the league and even when we are supposedly “laser focussed” we can’t even make a proper run at that. It’s false,it’s a sham,call it what you will,but Panthers is almost as bad as that ridiculous WWF or WWE wrestling crap,which quite honestly is a bigger pantomime than Cinderella !
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,621
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Post by Mark on Jan 21, 2018 13:14:42 GMT
The league is the competition that everyone measures a team against in this country. The Panthers are one of the biggest clubs in this country, stable, a large fanbase, generating a healthy turnover. We’ve won the league once in 38 years.
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Post by ashfieldpanther on Jan 21, 2018 13:51:17 GMT
As you say, probably aiming higher than us. Wonder how he racked up 85 pm in NLA?
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Post by kievthegreat on Jan 21, 2018 14:07:41 GMT
That would be a sensational signing. Point a game in the AHL should tear up the league. However I can't see someone with that CV leaving the NLA to slum it in the EIHL.
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Post by Bagheera on Jan 21, 2018 15:26:28 GMT
Such a shame we havn't gone out and signed a top quality player in a reasonable time. We knew we needed one for Cardiff last Sunday. Just imagine had we signed a stud. This is very much pie in the sky and built on if buts and maybes, but if that player had have come in and been the difference maker the league could look a very different way. If we had simply managed to win the 3 games prior to last night even the most down beat of fans would have been saying we were in the race. So had we won those 3 in regulation.
Cardiff - played 34 points 50 Belfast - played 36 points 47 Panthrs - played 33 points 47.
As I say I know it's fantasy land but a quality player could have been the difference maker on the ice + a boost to the rest of the team.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 21, 2018 15:34:07 GMT
Such a shame we havn't gone out and signed a top quality player in a reasonable time. We knew we needed one for Cardiff last Sunday. Just imagine had we signed a stud. This is very much pie in the sky and built on if buts and maybes, but if that player had have come in and been the difference maker the league could look a very different way. If we had simply managed to win the 3 games prior to last night even the most down beat of fans would have been saying we were in the race. So had we won those 3 in regulation. Cardiff - played 34 points 50 Belfast - played 36 points 47 Panthrs - played 33 points 47. As I say I know it's fantasy land but a quality player could have been the difference maker on the ice + a boost to the rest of the team. And even more fantasy land or pie in the sky. But just imagine if we had signed one for the start of the season !
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 21, 2018 15:45:21 GMT
That would be a sensational signing. Point a game in the AHL should tear up the league. However I can't see someone with that CV leaving the NLA to slum it in the EIHL. Offer him 4k a week,that's £50k until the end of the season,then you might get him for the rest of this year.....that's still nothing to Panthers. If you want quality you gotta pay for it. I have never understood why a so called astute businessman like Black cannot seem to understand that a winning team puts bums on seats more than anything else. We regularly have 1000 plus seats left unsold nearly every game,you would only need to sell an extra 200 ish extra seats to cover this guys wages. It's not rocket science !
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Post by tootootrain on Jan 21, 2018 16:34:35 GMT
Given that winning the league is the only 'guaranteed' way to get into the CHL, you also have to wonder why an owner, who has such a fixation with CHL hockey, doesn't do everything he can to ensure league titles every season.
He is by far the most pro-CHL owner in the EIHL yet has seemingly allowed his primary team take their eye off the ball, slump to a position where qualifying for the CHL is unlikely and has compounded the slump by failing to address shortcomings in the team sooner.
For someone who keeps going on about CHL hockey being where he wants Panthers to be he is pretty much asleep at the wheel.
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Post by jd on Jan 21, 2018 16:39:49 GMT
No way will he sign for us!
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Post by jd on Jan 21, 2018 16:43:07 GMT
That would be a sensational signing. Point a game in the AHL should tear up the league. However I can't see someone with that CV leaving the NLA to slum it in the EIHL. Offer him 4k a week,that's £50k until the end of the season,then you might get him for the rest of this year.....that's still nothing to Panthers. If you want quality you gotta pay for it. I have never understood why a so called astute businessman like Black cannot seem to understand that a winning team puts bums on seats more than anything else. We regularly have 1000 plus seats left unsold nearly every game,you would only need to sell an extra 200 ish extra seats to cover this guys wages. It's not rocket science ! Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 21, 2018 17:06:19 GMT
Offer him 4k a week,that's £50k until the end of the season,then you might get him for the rest of this year.....that's still nothing to Panthers. If you want quality you gotta pay for it. I have never understood why a so called astute businessman like Black cannot seem to understand that a winning team puts bums on seats more than anything else. We regularly have 1000 plus seats left unsold nearly every game,you would only need to sell an extra 200 ish extra seats to cover this guys wages. It's not rocket science ! Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping Not sure crowds are up much. I think our average last year was 5800 and it's been pretty similar for a few years. There may have been 6500 there last night,but we have had quite a few 4800s and 5100s etc this season. The biggest noticeable increase i can remember seemed to happen in the year we won the league. Last third of that season crowds rose. People seem to think our regular import guys are on big money......they aren't. The average EIHL import is only on around £700 a week,some a bit more,with a couple of top earners £1000 maybe £1200 a week.....a full roster maybe £16k a week. Do the maths over 30 weeks,Panthers wage bill is a pretty low proportion of gross income. Compare that to say Cardiff,who I think everybody would agree have a similar calibre roster,but on crowds of only 3000 and it's not hard to see which team is not doing all they could. And that's even taking into account that Cardiff allegedly don't pay arena rent. The % spend difference between them is still massive.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jan 21, 2018 17:37:25 GMT
Given that winning the league is the only 'guaranteed' way to get into the CHL, you also have to wonder why an owner, who has such a fixation with CHL hockey, doesn't do everything he can to ensure league titles every season. He is by far the most pro-CHL owner in the EIHL yet has seemingly allowed his primary team take their eye off the ball, slump to a position where qualifying for the CHL is unlikely and has compounded the slump by failing to address shortcomings in the team sooner. For someone who keeps going on about CHL hockey being where he wants Panthers to be he is pretty much asleep at the wheel. Just business. Next year no CHL so cheap roster like it was the year after we won the league and fill the coffers for a year then start again. If the only way into the CHL is through winning the league then I can’t see that happening in my life time. NB sees the bigger picture.
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Post by texpef on Jan 21, 2018 18:06:48 GMT
Offer him 4k a week,that's £50k until the end of the season,then you might get him for the rest of this year.....that's still nothing to Panthers. If you want quality you gotta pay for it. I have never understood why a so called astute businessman like Black cannot seem to understand that a winning team puts bums on seats more than anything else. We regularly have 1000 plus seats left unsold nearly every game,you would only need to sell an extra 200 ish extra seats to cover this guys wages. It's not rocket science ! Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping I get your point but ever heard of speculate to accumulate, if we had a couple of ringers brought in who helped the panthers charge back up the league, win it or not the crowds would go up, at approx. £20 a ticket that's 50 extra tickets for £1000 even if a ridiculous wage was offered of £400o per week that's 400 extra tickets per game very easy to do with a successful panthers team or at least it should be... and it wouldn't affect the bottom line of profit at all.... However as you say why change anything when crowds allegedly aren't dropping and we haven't even got a full compliment of imports now...... ching ching
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 21, 2018 18:19:08 GMT
Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping I get your point but ever heard of speculate to accumulate, if we had a couple of ringers brought in who helped the panthers charge back up the league, win it or not the crowds would go up, at approx. £20 a ticket that's 50 extra tickets for £1000 even if a ridiculous wage was offered of £400o per week that's 400 extra tickets per game very easy to do with a successful panthers team or at least it should be... and it wouldn't affect the bottom line of profit at all.... However as you say why change anything when crowds allegedly aren't dropping and we haven't even got a full compliment of imports now...... ching ching And don't forget,it would be £4000 a week MINUS Shalla's weekly wage AND a lump of Shalla's wages they've saved since we've played short.
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Post by Rob Scott on Jan 21, 2018 19:03:49 GMT
Offer him 4k a week,that's £50k until the end of the season,then you might get him for the rest of this year.....that's still nothing to Panthers. If you want quality you gotta pay for it. I have never understood why a so called astute businessman like Black cannot seem to understand that a winning team puts bums on seats more than anything else. We regularly have 1000 plus seats left unsold nearly every game,you would only need to sell an extra 200 ish extra seats to cover this guys wages. It's not rocket science ! Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping To try and win?
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simonm
Pat Casey
Banned
100%
Posts: 220
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Post by simonm on Jan 21, 2018 19:08:53 GMT
Oh no wonder they banned you.... Unreasonable expectations
😊
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Post by jd on Jan 22, 2018 12:25:55 GMT
Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping To try and win? I agree - just saying that Black is making money, attendances arent falling, so why would he change things. I would love to see a change at the top, but just cant see that happening
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Post by jd on Jan 22, 2018 12:27:19 GMT
Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping I get your point but ever heard of speculate to accumulate, if we had a couple of ringers brought in who helped the panthers charge back up the league, win it or not the crowds would go up, at approx. £20 a ticket that's 50 extra tickets for £1000 even if a ridiculous wage was offered of £400o per week that's 400 extra tickets per game very easy to do with a successful panthers team or at least it should be... and it wouldn't affect the bottom line of profit at all.... However as you say why change anything when crowds allegedly aren't dropping and we haven't even got a full compliment of imports now...... ching ching I dont think we will sign anyone until March. Its so sad
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Post by jd on Jan 22, 2018 12:29:12 GMT
Attendances are going up all the time, more fans at most games. Why would he want to spend more when at the moment attendances aren’t dipping Not sure crowds are up much. I think our average last year was 5800 and it's been pretty similar for a few years. There may have been 6500 there last night,but we have had quite a few 4800s and 5100s etc this season. The biggest noticeable increase i can remember seemed to happen in the year we won the league. Last third of that season crowds rose. People seem to think our regular import guys are on big money......they aren't. The average EIHL import is only on around £700 a week,some a bit more,with a couple of top earners £1000 maybe £1200 a week.....a full roster maybe £16k a week. Do the maths over 30 weeks,Panthers wage bill is a pretty low proportion of gross income. Compare that to say Cardiff,who I think everybody would agree have a similar calibre roster,but on crowds of only 3000 and it's not hard to see which team is not doing all they could. And that's even taking into account that Cardiff allegedly don't pay arena rent. The % spend difference between them is still massive. How do you know what our imports are paid? Not being awkward, just curious
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 22, 2018 13:22:34 GMT
I don’t know exactly what each guy is paid,but I’ve known and spoken to enough of them to know what the going rates are and what average you have to pay for say an average ECHL guy compared to a first line type AHL guy. You would be surprised how little some of them earn. I saw the actual contract of a Panthers goalie a few years ago,he was on £425 a week and his bonus was £200 per trophy.....peanuts. And no that wasn’t Dan Green,it was our no1 import !
I would bet most of our roster is on £600-£900 a week, with top earners like Sauve,Derlago,Mosey,Clarkey and the goalies on £1000 maybe a bit more. But even if you said every guy was on £1000 a week which they won’t be,that would still only be £20k a week or £600k a year. When you think ONE average crowd home game will gross £70k ish to Panthers that is an income of way over £2 million a year just from ticket sales alone. Add on all the sponsorship,merchandise,shirt sales,50/50s, shirt of the back, programmes etc etc and that is one heck of a profit for Mr Black.
It’s about time he spent some of it on our team !
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Post by PantherB on Jan 22, 2018 13:51:58 GMT
It's worth noting that any money the club make won't be tax free. Profit will probably be in the low millions at the max. Then there's paying for the cars, accommodation, equipment, travel, medical bills, fitness/strength conditioning coaching, and all the other little bits and bobs too.
We'll never find out what the club spend and profit but at the end of the day, a businessman's aim is to make money so from Black's point of view.. why spend more when attendances continue to rise and profits (probably) continue to rise? If the club enter a serious decline, maxing like 4,000 a game, not competing for any trophies then money would be thrown at them but as it stands.. We're competitive, but end up flopping, which is made into the usual spin of 'we spent money, got a good, competitive team and did really well but unfortunately, things just worked better for Cardiff, Belfast and Sheffield' aka we tried, but didn't succeed.
I'd love for us to just push the boat out, throw 50% more money onto our budget and assert the dominance we could quite easily have. We have room for growth, not a massive amount but enough to bring a fair amount more money into the club. Cardiff are severely limited, Sheffield are on uneven ground as to stuff with their arena, Belfast don't have a big core of die hard fans. Despite the lack of success we've had, we're probably still in the best position businesswise and I don't understand why not much is being done to push the club to its full potential.
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