meadow
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 179
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Post by meadow on Apr 13, 2017 13:27:00 GMT
I'm not really sure what Fife etc think the end game is here if these rumours are true:
Realistically keeping a higher import level means they don't have to join in the bidding war for top Brits to have three reasonable lines, and the roster restrictions away from four line hockey plus the requirements for u23 Brits also help to keep total playing budgets down.
Either way, shows the discrepancy between the top four teams in the league who are looking out to compete in Europe in terms of professionalism and quality and those who are just trying to keep afloat and maintain some sense of parity. (not that thats any different to any other sport / league really)
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Post by PantherB on Apr 13, 2017 13:34:08 GMT
Neil Russell and co. are confident of keeping Storm an Elite League team for the foreseeable future. Players have left on very good terms so I assume their finances aren't as bad as people think as we'd likely be hearing of 'I've not been paid' kind of stuff. Players want to re-sign with them too.
The Shane Owen to ___ is dead now too, he's signed in the Allsvenskan.
Scottish teams are holding the League at gunpoint, if they don't get what they want we'll be in a 9 team league next season. There was also a rumour that Hull want to move back up to EIHL because they don't like the look of the EPL replacement. Could only see them coming up for a season, if at all. Their rink in being bulldozed and replaced for a new one but with less seats.
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grumpy
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 103
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Post by grumpy on Apr 13, 2017 14:39:34 GMT
Difficult to see how the league can continue in its present format in the long term - there is simply too large a gap between Panthers, Steelers, Giants, Clan (?), and the likes of Stars, Caps, and Flyers. Even with the additional costs faced by arena teams, attendances, averaging nearly 6,000 in The Panthers case, must give a significant financial advantage. Without sponsorship money to divvy up, as in The Premier League (Football), the smaller teams will always struggle. Neil Black has always said that he wants to increase import limits and that The EIHL is not a development league....clearly the Scots have already forced concessions but if we go back to 10/12 imports the the quality will fall dramatically, rosters will be smaller and numbers made up with part time Brits of doubtful quality. Encouraging Elite clubs to develop young talent is sensible as it is unlikely to happen otherwise, with The EPL in disarray. Can`t see any easy solutions - maybe,if NB gets his London franchise up and running,there could be scope for expansion in The South. Devils and Clan have shown what can be achieved with good management and marketing and Blaze have had record attendances despite a poor season but I don`t see the will to invest with the other three Scottish teams.
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Post by pingchowchi on Apr 13, 2017 15:24:23 GMT
I thought that the Scottish teams were arguing for a 3x4 team conf (to keep their travell costs down) where as most of the other teams favour a 2x6 team conf split?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 13, 2017 15:41:57 GMT
Difficult to see how the league can continue in its present format in the long term - there is simply too large a gap between Panthers, Steelers, Giants, Clan (?), and the likes of Stars, Caps, and Flyers. Even with the additional costs faced by arena teams, attendances, averaging nearly 6,000 in The Panthers case, must give a significant financial advantage. Without sponsorship money to divvy up, as in The Premier League (Football), the smaller teams will always struggle. Neil Black has always said that he wants to increase import limits and that The EIHL is not a development league....clearly the Scots have already forced concessions but if we go back to 10/12 imports the the quality will fall dramatically, rosters will be smaller and numbers made up with part time Brits of doubtful quality. Encouraging Elite clubs to develop young talent is sensible as it is unlikely to happen otherwise, with The EPL in disarray. Can`t see any easy solutions - maybe,if NB gets his London franchise up and running,there could be scope for expansion in The South. Devils and Clan have shown what can be achieved with good management and marketing and Blaze have had record attendances despite a poor season but I don`t see the will to invest with the other three Scottish teams. The Clan seem to be doing ok and the Capitals as crap as ever. Dundee and Fife just need to work out which group they fall under and if it's the disastrous Capitals business model then they are done.
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grumpy
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 103
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Post by grumpy on Apr 13, 2017 19:03:00 GMT
Agree with the flying shirt, Caps is potentially one of the best franchises in The EIHL but the owner has no interest in either investing or selling, which really highlights the weakness of the leagues management structure - he ought to be forced to put it on the market/invest or lose the franchise. Steve Ward faces problems at Dundee as the local economy is pretty depressed (lovely people at the club by the way, been there once or twice), Muir at Flyers has never been keen on spending but has a very loyal fan base. Clan have shown what can be done to "build a brand" but admittedly they have the advantage of a massive population base to draw from. One way or another, without more investment/ambition, it is going to be difficult to build a competitive and financially viable Scottish Conference - which leaves Clan stranded 300 miles from their nearest serious rivals. Hence my earlier pondering whether the sport will eventually become concentrated in the South/Midlands.
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Post by Walitzer on Apr 13, 2017 20:19:27 GMT
There was also a rumour that Hull want to move back up to EIHL because they don't like the look of the EPL replacement. Could only see them coming up for a season, if at all. Their rink in being bulldozed and replaced for a new one but with less seats. Hull was rumored to be getting a new rink long before the Stingrays Collapsed. The only known truth in it is that the council will be paying £200'000 for a feasibility study into two potential locations, the new rink would not be built upon the ground of the current, so the Pirates wouldn't be without Ice to use. The size of the potential rink varies depending on where you get your news from. Could be anywhere from 1'000 to 5000 seats. Would be very surprised to see Pirates in the EIHL next year, though I think Hull's owner Shane Smith and Gary Moran could get along very well.
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Post by kezypanther on Apr 14, 2017 8:17:52 GMT
Agree with the flying shirt, Caps is potentially one of the best franchises in The EIHL but the owner has no interest in either investing or selling, which really highlights the weakness of the leagues management structure - he ought to be forced to put it on the market/invest or lose the franchise. Steve Ward faces problems at Dundee as the local economy is pretty depressed (lovely people at the club by the way, been there once or twice), Muir at Flyers has never been keen on spending but has a very loyal fan base. Clan have shown what can be done to "build a brand" but admittedly they have the advantage of a massive population base to draw from. One way or another, without more investment/ambition, it is going to be difficult to build a competitive and financially viable Scottish Conference - which leaves Clan stranded 300 miles from their nearest serious rivals. Hence my earlier pondering whether the sport will eventually become concentrated in the South/Midlands. I totally agree about Caps. Their rink may not be the best but they are in a capital city with nearly 500k people. They could have one hell of a team done correctly.
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Post by coloradoflyer01 on Apr 14, 2017 8:24:40 GMT
they may be in the capital but they have football, rugby , speedway all in front of hockey so if scott neil wants them to be big over there he really needs to ramp up the marketing side of it
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 14, 2017 8:31:08 GMT
they may be in the capital but they have football, rugby , speedway all in front of hockey so if scott neil wants them to be big over there he really needs to ramp up the marketing side of it A huge amount of Panthers fans go to Forrest, County, cricket, rugby, Donnington, etc. A city the size of Edinburgh I think that football, rugby, etc is a red herring. Sometimes it's easier to get hand outs rather than have to put the effort in to build a fan base.
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grumpy
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 103
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Post by grumpy on Apr 14, 2017 10:56:50 GMT
Competition from Football is not the problem for Caps - lack of marketing is. They have a beautiful city steeped in history which must be a magnet for players - particularly from North America - beautiful countryside, golf, culture, everything you could possibly want. So far as attracting paying customers, not only have they got a huge catchment area - almost half of Scotlands population live in the central belt - but what about the tourist market? Large numbers of Americans visit Scotland every year, many of them no doubt hockey fans, but there is nothing at the airport or for that matter anywhere in the city to advertise the fact that there is an ice hockey team there. Even a poster up near the rink would help as you virtually pass it on the way from the airport to the city.I was talking to a couple from Philadelphia a few months ago, they were there on a fortnights holiday, keel fans of the Flyers, would have loved to take in a game but were totally unaware of The Caps existence. Another missed opportunity was the recent rugby international versus Wales - Caps had a game on following the match, what about a ticket deal for the rugby fans, a BBQ outside, just SOMETHING - 80,000 sports fans next door, most happy after a win, surely they could tempt a few hundred?
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puckit
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 186
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Post by puckit on Apr 14, 2017 11:35:06 GMT
Competition from Football is not the problem for Caps - lack of marketing is. They have a beautiful city steeped in history which must be a magnet for players - particularly from North America - beautiful countryside, golf, culture, everything you could possibly want. So far as attracting paying customers, not only have they got a huge catchment area - almost half of Scotlands population live in the central belt - but what about the tourist market? Large numbers of Americans visit Scotland every year, many of them no doubt hockey fans, but there is nothing at the airport or for that matter anywhere in the city to advertise the fact that there is an ice hockey team there. Even a poster up near the rink would help as you virtually pass it on the way from the airport to the city.I was talking to a couple from Philadelphia a few months ago, they were there on a fortnights holiday, keel fans of the Flyers, would have loved to take in a game but were totally unaware of The Caps existence. Another missed opportunity was the recent rugby international versus Wales - Caps had a game on following the match, what about a ticket deal for the rugby fans, a BBQ outside, just SOMETHING - 80,000 sports fans next door, most happy after a win, surely they could tempt a few hundred? Totally agree, on Edinburgh's fan forum there's a few uni students who are relatively new to the sport and the caps but are really taken by it and they claim it's very poorly run. They claim exposure to the public is poor and there is a lot that could be done to improve the match day experience. Someone with some vision and forward thinking needs to get in there quick.
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Post by coloradoflyer01 on Apr 14, 2017 11:39:04 GMT
yeah that what am saying the marketing around about Edinburgh needs to be a hell of a lot better like you say, and by train or from the airport you pass murrayfield and unless you already knew it was there you would indeed miss it. nothing in the town either about it nothing in the train stations or that.
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Post by marshalfish on Apr 14, 2017 11:41:13 GMT
Absolutely spot on. The Caps have a marketing opportunity that the other clubs can only dream of, but it is scandalously underused. A few hoardings in strategic places and association with the rugby and/or football would create a great deal of interest I think. The big problem would be keeping the interest while Caps morph into a decent team.
The excuse of having to compete with other sports is a bit of a red herring I think. Most sports watchers who actually attend games are fans of sport in general. Admittedly favouring "their" sport, but with an interest in others. How many Panthers fans do you know that go to Forest or County? Or both? Give them the option and I'm sure at least a proportion would go and have a look.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 14, 2017 14:05:52 GMT
How many times have you got into a taxi and asked for Murrayfield Ice Arena and been told that there isn't one?
Continually giving Edinburgh hand outs was the worst thing the league ever did with the exception of the money that was thrown at the lost cause in Hull.
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Post by sevcik on Apr 14, 2017 20:14:14 GMT
Chris Lawrence to..... Fife (if they stay in the league that is). That'll be more than fine by me though i pity Fife if there is any truth to the rumour​. Apparently he is good mates with Matt Nickerson who is also rumoured to be heading the Flyers way once more....
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Post by samjohnson345 on Apr 14, 2017 20:18:56 GMT
At the GB game and a bloke asked Carter if he was coming back or not. And Carters reply was I don't know yet I find out in the next couple of weeks...
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DPG
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 24
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Post by DPG on Apr 14, 2017 21:27:53 GMT
Visited the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh a few years ago, and the two guides we were chatting to didn't know that Edinburgh had an ice hockey team....
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 14, 2017 21:50:34 GMT
At the GB game and a bloke asked Carter if he was coming back or not. And Carters reply was I don't know yet I find out in the next couple of weeks... Poor bloke needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
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Post by PantherG on Apr 14, 2017 22:08:32 GMT
At the GB game and a bloke asked Carter if he was coming back or not. And Carters reply was I don't know yet I find out in the next couple of weeks... Poor bloke needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Corey would be crucified if he signed that guy again, and why the hell is he still here? The Clan imports were shunted out the Thursday after the PO defeat. I'd be absolutely raging and I mean raging if he signed back up. God even if he said to Corey that he'd play for free he should still ship him out.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Apr 14, 2017 22:29:51 GMT
At the GB game and a bloke asked Carter if he was coming back or not. And Carters reply was I don't know yet I find out in the next couple of weeks... Poor bloke needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Wow is he a bit dim ? If Corey signs him again,i'm cancelling my season ticket and asking for my money back !
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Post by PantherB on Apr 15, 2017 0:13:40 GMT
I don't get why people are blaming Carter for something out of his hands?
Sure he was the weakest out of a bunch of poor imports but Corey coached him, his line mates were dreadful.
People need to take a step back and remember he's just as human as the rest of us and probably 80% of our fans are making his time here exceptionally unwelcoming. Makes all of us look like a horrible fan base to outsiders seeing us abuse one of our own players, it's not like he's gone and slept with all of our women!
I don't want to see him in the roster next season, just like most of the 2016-17 Roster but running him out of town is a bit excessive. He didn't ask to come here, he wasn't released mid-season.. if you want anyone to blame, blame the ones who didn't do what was best for the club and Carter himself in releasing him.
I'm not defending him being here, I just find it pretty awful seeing the abuse he receives on social media and what he's apparently received in person, it embarrasses me as a Panthers fan.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Apr 15, 2017 3:39:30 GMT
I don't get why people are blaming Carter for something out of his hands? Sure he was the weakest out of a bunch of poor imports but Corey coached him, his line mates were dreadful. People need to take a step back and remember he's just as human as the rest of us and probably 80% of our fans are making his time here exceptionally unwelcoming. Makes all of us look like a horrible fan base to outsiders seeing us abuse one of our own players, it's not like he's gone and slept with all of our women! I don't want to see him in the roster next season, just like most of the 2016-17 Roster but running him out of town is a bit excessive. He didn't ask to come here, he wasn't released mid-season.. if you want anyone to blame, blame the ones who didn't do what was best for the club and Carter himself in releasing him. I'm not defending him being here, I just find it pretty awful seeing the abuse he receives on social media and what he's apparently received in person, it embarrasses me as a Panthers fan. No different than what Pelts and Galbraith got and nobody was embarrassed then were they. He was a lazy play this year and barely contributed anything bar one highlight reel goal. Criticism is deserved and nobody said to run him out of town?
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Post by NickThePanther44 on Apr 15, 2017 3:56:01 GMT
Not a rumour but I'd like to see Cescon in a Panthers shirt. Tough solid d-man.
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Post by Kovalchuk17 on Apr 15, 2017 8:38:15 GMT
I don't get why people are blaming Carter for something out of his hands? Sure he was the weakest out of a bunch of poor imports but Corey coached him, his line mates were dreadful. People need to take a step back and remember he's just as human as the rest of us and probably 80% of our fans are making his time here exceptionally unwelcoming. Makes all of us look like a horrible fan base to outsiders seeing us abuse one of our own players, it's not like he's gone and slept with all of our women! I don't want to see him in the roster next season, just like most of the 2016-17 Roster but running him out of town is a bit excessive. He didn't ask to come here, he wasn't released mid-season.. if you want anyone to blame, blame the ones who didn't do what was best for the club and Carter himself in releasing him. I'm not defending him being here, I just find it pretty awful seeing the abuse he receives on social media and what he's apparently received in person, it embarrasses me as a Panthers fan. One of the record, Carter asked to join the Panthers (through Lawrence). No one is 'running him out of town'... the fact is that almost everyone (bar the odd happy-clapping Facebook post about how nice he is) was unhappy with his production and, most importantly, his effort levels. Corey has taken to the evening post to publicly criticise all those players who coasted through the majority of this year and their attitude. CN said he doesn't want those players staying next year and I think 99% of us will agree Carter is/should be one of those players. Then we hear that Carter is still knocking around Nottingham after most others have gone back to North America, still seeing if he has a place next year! If that's the case, either Carter is delusional in thinking he's done enough to stay or (and the bigger annoyance which is probably what's really happening) is the Neilson was again giving out more empty threats and probably will sign/re-sign more coasters for next season.
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