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Post by letsbehonestaboutit on Apr 3, 2017 6:58:14 GMT
The other point I would like to make is what would be the correct decision normally from a coach with regards to which backup netminder to use when defending a lead in a game? The experienced backup or the stand in netminder Was there anybody in panic mode when they saw at start of the game we had Green as backup netminder? Or are people simply posting that's a bad decision in hindsight? Are there any precedants for what a coach should do in this situation? Is it an unusual one to start with as rarely do teams in this League have 2 experienced quality keepers they could select if they wanted to? As the game was about to begin the poster on NPL joked that Green was in goal. I thought then that it was a mistake to even have Dan on the bench. If we intended to defend the lead, which appears to have been the plan then surely we needed to employ our best defence and plan for all possible eventualities. Hence Pacl should have been dressed and one of the forwards dropped as they would have been surplus to requirements. Equally Corey has already been criticised for us just playing for one period over the two legs and then trying to shut up shop Surely starting with an even more defensive approach by dropping an import forward would have made those accusations even stronger? Just saying..... Can't have it both ways
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Post by Big Popper on Apr 3, 2017 7:04:13 GMT
As the game was about to begin the poster on NPL joked that Green was in goal. I thought then that it was a mistake to even have Dan on the bench. If we intended to defend the lead, which appears to have been the plan then surely we needed to employ our best defence and plan for all possible eventualities. Hence Pacl should have been dressed and one of the forwards dropped as they would have been surplus to requirements. Equally Cory has already been criticised for us just playing for one period and trying to shut up shop Surely starting with an even more defensive approach by dropping an import forward would have made those accusations even stronger? Just saying..... Can't have it both ways Always damned if you do and if you don't in his position, but scoring just one goal and that with * seconds to go because we had to with the net minder pulled suggests to me that we either had no ambition or it was full on defence. If the latter then why the need for the forwards, and with a grand total of 19 shots over three periods + OT again why bother with the forwards.
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Post by letsbehonestaboutit on Apr 3, 2017 7:08:04 GMT
Equally Cory has already been criticised for us just playing for one period and trying to shut up shop Surely starting with an even more defensive approach by dropping an import forward would have made those accusations even stronger? Just saying..... Can't have it both ways Always damned if you do and if you don't in his position, but scoring just one goal and that with * seconds to go because we had to with the net minder pulled suggests to me that we either had no ambition or it was full on defence. If the latter then why the need for the forwards, and with a grand total of 19 shots over three periods + OT again why bother with the forwards. Yep but with one less import forward out there we would surely have had even less offense and less shots In the past ive never held back questioning decision making but in this thread the coach is being criticised on one hand for not going for it enough offensively then on another hand for not dropping an import forward and being even more safety first He can't win really
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Post by Nemesis on Apr 3, 2017 7:21:39 GMT
Game recap is up on Steelers TV. Glad Miika is OK and was swiftly released from hospital after check ups. We take no chances on the ice and take every precaution we can. Hope his wife is feeling better too.
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Post by letsbehonestaboutit on Apr 3, 2017 7:26:00 GMT
Game recap is up on Steelers TV. Glad Miika is OK and was swiftly released from hospital after check ups. We take no chances on the ice and take every precaution we can. Hope his wife is feeling better too. What do you reckon Nemesis. Was there any intent with what happened to Miika or was it accidental? Be honest?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 3, 2017 7:29:06 GMT
Dan 'anything less than five is a shutout' Green isn't a backup netminder. He is just someone thick skinned enough to walk out in front of 5000+ people and have pucks fired at him. We have seen proper backup netminders this season (Sheffield beat us with theirs a few days ago and with young Gospel in the nets last year). Dan is a rabbit in the headlights and doesn't even move anymore when pucks are heading anywhere but his chest. Whoever Panthers org are doing the favour to even naming him on the roster was a travisty at the beginning of yet another season back in August and even in pre season was less than useless when he was padded up and pushed onto the ice.
BUT the real problem last night was going into the second leg with a lead and not managing to score again to put the Steelers under REAL pressure long before Dan came on. Saturday was an excellent performance and the last goal by Lawrence should have been the key to going through. Yesterday's team was not the same team at all and even with the 5 minute PP didn't even threaten them at all.
This is pure mana from heaven for next years 'fill the arena rivalry' BS I'm sure but you can't expect to scrape through the 2nd leg away from home in front of a big partisan crowd without capitalising on your lead or with having Green dressed as a backup in case the worst happens.
Over the years we have heard all of the rubbish about it not being possible to have a backup as netminders demand ice time but just look back over the last season and think about the other backup netminders we have seen. CN knows that Green is no more than a hopeless static obstacle between the line and the net and that's why Pacl is here.
If the Panthers org had the ambition Green would have gone years ago AND we would have put some decent pressure on the Steelers last night with a goal but I guess if everyone is more obsessed with blaming Thompson I suppose it keeps the money coming in which is always going to be priority number one.
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Post by Nemesis on Apr 3, 2017 7:32:50 GMT
I can't win on an opposition forum getting involved in discussions like that mate. It is shown on the highlights. I just did my job and helped get his wife to him, and him sorted and into the care of the ambulance crew. The important thing is he is OK, something we can all be relieved and pleased about. :-)
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Post by LooseChippings on Apr 3, 2017 7:35:32 GMT
It doesn't look like 'running the goalie' to me ...
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dp
Jim Keyes
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Post by dp on Apr 3, 2017 7:36:28 GMT
Having seen the highlights...
No goal for their first.
And the Wiikman thing doesn't look entirely innocent. Put it this way, there's definitely no attempt to avoid him, and you have to question what else he was hoping to achieve by skating in at that angle. That's putting it kindly.
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Post by letsbehonestaboutit on Apr 3, 2017 7:38:02 GMT
Dan 'anything less than five is a shutout' Green isn't a backup netminder. He is just someone thick skinned enough to walk out in front of 5000+ people and have pucks fired at him. We have seen proper backup netminders this season (Sheffield beat us with theirs a few days ago and with young Gospel in the nets last year). Dan is a rabbit in the headlights and doesn't even move anymore when pucks are heading anywhere but his chest. Whoever Panthers org are doing the favour to even naming him on the roster was a travisty at the beginning of yet another season back in August and even in pre season was less than useless when he was padded up and pushed onto the ice. BUT the real problem last night was going into the second leg with a lead and not managing to score again to put the Steelers under REAL pressure long before Dan came on. Saturday was an excellent performance and the last goal by Lawrence should have been the key to going through. Yesterday's team was not the same team at all and even with the 5 minute PP didn't even threaten them at all. This is pure mana from heaven for next years 'fill the arena rivalry' BS I'm sure but you can't expect to scrape through the 2nd leg away from home in front of a big partisan crowd without capitalising on your lead or with having Green dressed as a backup in case the worst happens. Over the years we have heard all of the rubbish about it not being possible to have a backup as netminders demand ice time but just look back over the last season and think about the other backup netminders we have seen. CN knows that Green is no more than a hopeless static obstacle between the line and the net and that's why Pacl is here. If the Panthers org had the ambition Green would have gone years ago AND we would have put some decent pressure on the Steelers last night with a goal but I guess if everyone is more obsessed with blaming Thompson I suppose it keeps the money coming in which is always going to be priority number one. So your point is that green should never be backup keeper to start with But that you would have put offense over defence last night and picked the extra import forward rather than the extra import keeper on the bench (I think that's what you are suggesting) Ie the mistake was not last night but was at the start of the season I guess we need to find a better (non import) backup
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Gilly
Ashley Tait
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Post by Gilly on Apr 3, 2017 7:48:36 GMT
my take on the 2 incidents are;
Armstrong didn't purposely run Miika, however didn't exactly make any attempt to slow up either their first goal definitely did not cross the line - close yes - but no goal for me.
This team got the outcome we all knew was coming, but the manner in which it happened is what makes it so hard to take. a blistering first leg, a "massive" 3 goal lead heading into Sheffield, but we all know what Sheffield are capable of. to then have Miika go off, and everything seemed lost, to then pop up with an equaliser and a faint glimmer of hope, until you realise its Sheffield and its OT again - so it ended up exactly how we expected.
a roller coaster of a weekend but a good advert for hockey and a fantastic watch for a neutral
Glad Miika is ok, hope they get stuffed in the semis, and finally roll on silly season when we can finally get shut of the dead wood and have a positive rebuild ready for CHL in August
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 3, 2017 7:53:15 GMT
Dan 'anything less than five is a shutout' Green isn't a backup netminder. He is just someone thick skinned enough to walk out in front of 5000+ people and have pucks fired at him. We have seen proper backup netminders this season (Sheffield beat us with theirs a few days ago and with young Gospel in the nets last year). Dan is a rabbit in the headlights and doesn't even move anymore when pucks are heading anywhere but his chest. Whoever Panthers org are doing the favour to even naming him on the roster was a travisty at the beginning of yet another season back in August and even in pre season was less than useless when he was padded up and pushed onto the ice. BUT the real problem last night was going into the second leg with a lead and not managing to score again to put the Steelers under REAL pressure long before Dan came on. Saturday was an excellent performance and the last goal by Lawrence should have been the key to going through. Yesterday's team was not the same team at all and even with the 5 minute PP didn't even threaten them at all. This is pure mana from heaven for next years 'fill the arena rivalry' BS I'm sure but you can't expect to scrape through the 2nd leg away from home in front of a big partisan crowd without capitalising on your lead or with having Green dressed as a backup in case the worst happens. Over the years we have heard all of the rubbish about it not being possible to have a backup as netminders demand ice time but just look back over the last season and think about the other backup netminders we have seen. CN knows that Green is no more than a hopeless static obstacle between the line and the net and that's why Pacl is here. If the Panthers org had the ambition Green would have gone years ago AND we would have put some decent pressure on the Steelers last night with a goal but I guess if everyone is more obsessed with blaming Thompson I suppose it keeps the money coming in which is always going to be priority number one. So your point is that green should never be backup keeper to start with But that you would have put offense over defence last night and picked the extra import forward rather than the extra import keeper on the bench (I think that's what you are suggesting) Ie the mistake was not last night but was at the start of the season I guess we need to find a better (non import) backup My point is that Green should not be on the roster in ANY capacity at all in ANY EIHL team and if CN can't find a better young Brit then he really does have recruiting problems as most rec teams have better netminders than Green but the real problem is that for someone who is constantly hailed as a great tornament coach why the hell didn't we put them under any pressure at all. We very much looked like a one period over two games team last night and I thought we looked very tired by the second period last night. You could stand in the Lace Market and throw a stone with a blindfold on and hit a better netminder than Dan but last night we were tactically naive over three periods with way too much dumping and chasing (again) and the Steelers changed the Pathers world in 24 very short hours.
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Randolf
Pat Casey
DS.... what a clown.
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Post by Randolf on Apr 3, 2017 9:09:55 GMT
Sam gospel is an excellent young local British net minder. Panthers lost him due to GM wanting him to do the job for nothing. Look at the job he's done atbTelford... two league championships! GM now chastises him because Sheffield used him and they beat us in the cup, actually winning because he saved the penalty shots. How many people/players are alienated by him is anyone's guess but I think it's a lot. The reason we lost last night is purely because of tactics and that's down to the coach. When in a position of dominance go for the kill, take the momentum. If your going to try to hold a lead, drop a forward and stack the D/NM.... if Thompson is planning to run goalies, return the favour, play him at his own game. Unfortunately taking the moral high ground and playing nicely nicely seldom creates success by way of trophies. An eye for an eye as far as I'm concerned
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Post by marksteeler on Apr 3, 2017 9:29:56 GMT
Few things from a Sheffield view. I sit behind the goal I was convinced the 1st goal didn't go in but looking on highlights and a screen shot it does appear to cross fully. I don't think Armstrong was intentional it wasn't helped by Dinmens position and what he was trying to do. Also I would have expected if Panthers thought it was deliberate, why don't they send Brian, Robert or Jeff out and send a that's not acceptable message. I was surprised by your tactics of trying to soak it all up I think if you went for a goal early would have changed the game, even more surprised that when Green went in, there was no attempt to protect him at all. Couldn't believe Macmillan let Desbiens skate straight at Green for the game winning goal. Also the hit on Dowd was very lucky to not have been called. I know people want a 4 man system but when calls like that are not made what's the point.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 3, 2017 10:20:23 GMT
First goal doesn't look in to me. As for Armstrong he puts himself in a position where he can make sure he doesn't avoid the goalie,funnily enough he did the same on Saturday night too,so was it an accident,I don't think so. Deliberate or not,he knew EXACTLY what he was doing there.
BUT there is one man who has to take the blame for Panthers play off exit and that's Neilson. He signed a team that lacked goals,lacked skill,lacked speed,lacked attitude,had round pegs in square holes,had little cover knowing full well they had an 80 game season and at the end of the day Panthers got what they deserved. One good period in six in a play off game is shocking and as for the sit back and defend for five periods,well that's just appalling tactics,especially against a team like Sheffield.
As for Desbiens winning goal,yeah that's it in a nutshell,a forward and not a great one playing D and in a 4 on 4 o/t situation too. He got skinned and couldn't do a thing about it.....round peg square hole again,that's just typical Neilson !
Done and dusted now. Just hope the Steelers get hammered at POFW.....then we'll see who has the last laugh Fitzy,cos you ain't won nothing yet !!!
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Apr 3, 2017 10:41:07 GMT
First goal, possibly not all the way over, but it's extremely close to being. By the time his hand's on it, is that all the way over? Maybe. Injury - I'd say he's just trying to skate to the front, something we normally allow the forward to do (see MacMillan on the GWG), but for once Dimmen gets in the way and the rest follows. Just bad luck for me. Dowd probably did get a check to the head, but if anyone deserves one...
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Post by jd on Apr 3, 2017 10:46:05 GMT
Should never have backed off on Saturday night, should have put 6 or 7 past them
CN tactics all season have been a bit weird. We have been playing short on D all year and it cost us last night.
MacMillan is a first round pick who plays Centre, shouldn't be on D. Desi went past him with ease for the winner Carter should have been released in October. Green should have been released last summer. Why is Lacho playing Centre, hes a winger.
Big summer ahead for us. Not sure i will be back if the majority of this team are back.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 3, 2017 10:49:12 GMT
First goal, possibly not all the way over, but it's extremely close to being. View AttachmentBy the time his hand's on it, is that all the way over? Maybe. Injury - I'd say he's just trying to skate to the front, something we normally allow the forward to do (see MacMillan on the GWG), but for once Dimmen gets in the way and the rest follows. Just bad luck for me. Dowd probably did get a check to the head, but if anyone deserves one... That puck is not fully over the line,ref can't see for Miika's glove......SO THE REF GUESSED and got it wrong. He should not be awarding a goal if he's guessing !
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,625
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Post by Yotes on Apr 3, 2017 11:04:04 GMT
His blocker isn't in the way of the ref who was behind the goal (you can see his skates in the screenshot), although he's not ideally placed. Did he give it, or the other one?
On Twitter there were some comments to the effect that the goal line technology was not in use in the game due to a decision we'd (Black) made, is that true?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 3, 2017 11:07:23 GMT
His blocker isn't in the way of the ref who was behind the goal (you can see his skates in the screenshot), although he's not ideally placed. Did he give it, or the other one? On Twitter there were some comments to the effect that the goal line technology was not in use in the game due to a decision we'd (Black) made, is that true? Yes
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,625
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Post by Yotes on Apr 3, 2017 11:09:34 GMT
Was it a monetary consideration?
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Warren
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,467
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Post by Warren on Apr 3, 2017 11:10:47 GMT
For those who haven't seen it yet, here are the "highlights"
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 3, 2017 11:13:28 GMT
Was it a monetary consideration? It could have been that the moons weren't aligned but I expect so
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Post by dill1015 on Apr 3, 2017 11:15:59 GMT
Havnt commented yet because i wasnt at the game. But have watched the highlights now.
For me i cant tell if the puck goes fully over or not. Its so close. But this is why we should use GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY! it really is ridculous.
The Wiikman incident. I gotta say i dont think hes really done anything wrong. Armstrong skates hard to the net, which is whats hes suppose to do. A couple of Panthers players try and stop him and Armstrong loses his balance. Them Dimmen shuts the door and Armstring has nowhere to go but through the crease. Id chalk this one up to an accident.
Green. Well what can you say. I think id prefer any other back up in the league. He needs to do the honnorable thing and retire.
I know people are annoyed about this weekend. But did anyone one really think this team deserved to go though? We won 1 period out of 7. By anyones standard thats not good enough. Massively out shot in both games. The sad part is i called this. I said to my brother after the first leg "i bet we dont go through". I just knew it would happen. I knew we'd go into sheffield and play really passively against a team with loads of fire power. Except we dont have the defensive quality to do that. This yet another example of how coreys got the tactics wrong.
For me im just glad this season is over its been painful and draining. I will be watching the summer signing very closely. Because i now have to consider if i want to part with my money to watch this team. Never in the last 20 years did i think id say that.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Apr 3, 2017 11:21:18 GMT
Havnt commented yet because i wasnt at the game. But have watched the highlights now. For me i cant tell if the puck goes fully over or not. Its so close. But this is why we should use GOAL LINE TECHNOLOGY! it really is ridculous. The Wiikman incident. I gotta say i dont think hes really done anything wrong. Armstrong skates hard to the net, which is whats hes suppose to do. A couple of Panthers players try and stop him and Armstrong loses his balance. Them Dimmen shuts the door and Armstring has nowhere to go but through the crease. Id chalk this one up to an accident. Green. Well what can you say. I think id prefer any other back up in the league. He needs to do the honnorable thing and retire. I know people are annoyed about this weekend. But did anyone one really think this team deserved to go though? We won 1 period out of 7. By anyones standard thats not good enough. Massively out shot in both games. The sad part is i called this. I said to my brother after the first leg "i bet we dont go through". I just knew it would happen. I knew we'd go into sheffield and play really passively against a team with loads of fire power. Except we dont have the defensive quality to do that. This yet another example of how coreys got the tactics wrong. For me im just glad this season is over its been painful and draining. I will be watching the summer signing very closely. Because i now have to consider if i want to part with my money to watch this team. Never in the last 20 years did i think id say that. Just makes you wonder what CN's cup record would be like without home advantage in a lot of cases or playing Spanish and Turkish part timers.
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