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Post by Rob Scott on Sept 15, 2017 14:39:25 GMT
Will there be a method for the membership to put forward issues/ideas at some point Rob, as a way to get a feeling for which way we want it to head (to begin with at least)? Yep. We have a board meeting booked for late September and one of the items on the agenda is how to go about canvassing opinion of the membership. We are also more than happy for people to step forward to volunteer their time and skills towards the effort.!
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Post by spik on Sept 16, 2017 17:03:42 GMT
Whilst some may find the tweet to continue to request dialog with the Ice Hockey club in Nottingham, not a good idea. It has to be remembered that for years the club have been able to state it's case on many platforms whereas those spoken of had no chance of reply to so many of the public. ie) the match programme being one such case.
So as the recent attempt to continue to strieve for communication is sought. Let's not forget that this is a group of people trying to do something that has not been tried before. Can we forgive any possible descrepancy that may have happened?
Considering the attempts to have meetings comes from a new and growing set up that can welcome questions and then can (as has happened) give answers.Thus engage with even those opposed to any such group.I think we can.
The club is a professional unit. The Trust is an emerging existance who has in a mere few weeks since inception opened up forthcoming voting for a move from 'interim' board to it's elected state.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 20:52:08 GMT
Haven’t read this thread for some time.
I’ve been busy trying to think about an election policy, learning how to mail merge so we can print off share certificates (yes, every member has one share and one vote), learning how to construct and manage a website, building spreadsheets, attending meetings, learning how do do email campaigns, writing to members, thinking about the actual mechanics of member voting, etc., etc., etc.
As have all members of the INTERIM board.
We have donated hours and hours of our time, and considerable amounts of our own money (pre membership launch) to set this Trust up - for the benefit of the fans, and, we believed for the benefit of the club in that they could monitor, through the Trust, the concerns and thoughts of their customers.
Yes, I AM a member of the interim board!
If I wanted to just join a group of disgruntled fans I could have done so with a lot less time and cost, just by posting on this forum.
There has been some criticism of “the Tweet”. I assure you that this was a genuine attempt to engage with the club. The light-hearted nature of the tweet was intentional to avoid any accusations of being confrontational. I’m sure that if the tweet had been in legalese, then we would have incurred as much criticism.
In my opinion, and I stress MY opinion - not the opinions of my fellow board members, I think the criticisms have been a bit “over the top”. I’ve asked the question before - bearing in mind the number of telephone calls, emails and letters that have been sent in a genuine attempt to engage, what options were left open to us? I ask the question seriously. I would love to find an approach we haven’t already tried.
Also, bear in mind that we have a responsibility now to those who have joined, to go on attempting to open a fan/club dialogue - it’s what they joined for.
We are not going away. Now we have a growing membership, we CAN’T go away. We will continue to explore all avenues, and there are still avenues left to explore. We are certainly not going to abandon all those who have parted with their cash to support us.
I, for one, would certainly like to pass the baton on! We are meeting next week, one of the topics being the election policy which will lead to an elected board. We have had to make decisions as a board to get the Trust up and running, but, as I said earlier, we are looking at ways to engage the members. We are sending regular, short, emails to all of the membership (as we did with the tweet) to let people know what is happening, before it happens.
We are not a protest group, we are not trying to be confrontational.
I apologise if anyone has been offended by anything we have done or said. I assure you that no offence was meant. I also apologise to my fellow board members for shooting my mouth off again - although they should be used to it by now!
Join us, put yourself up for election, talk to us - someone’s got to! (Whoops!)
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by DMS on Sept 18, 2017 6:41:04 GMT
Haven’t read this thread for some time. I’ve been busy trying to think about an election policy, learning how to mail merge so we can print off share certificates (yes, every member has one share and one vote), learning how to construct and manage a website, building spreadsheets, attending meetings, learning how do do email campaigns, writing to members, thinking about the actual mechanics of member voting, etc., etc., etc. As have all members of the INTERIM board. We have donated hours and hours of our time, and considerable amounts of our own money (pre membership launch) to set this Trust up - for the benefit of the fans, and, we believed for the benefit of the club in that they could monitor, through the Trust, the concerns and thoughts of their customers. Yes, I AM a member of the interim board! If I wanted to just join a group of disgruntled fans I could have done so with a lot less time and cost, just by posting on this forum. There has been some criticism of “the Tweet”. I assure you that this was a genuine attempt to engage with the club. The light-hearted nature of the tweet was intentional to avoid any accusations of being confrontational. I’m sure that if the tweet had been in legalese, then we would have incurred as much criticism. In my opinion, and I stress MY opinion - not the opinions of my fellow board members, I think the criticisms have been a bit “over the top”. I’ve asked the question before - bearing in mind the number of telephone calls, emails and letters that have been sent in a genuine attempt to engage, what options were left open to us? I ask the question seriously. I would love to find an approach we haven’t already tried. Also, bear in mind that we have a responsibility now to those who have joined, to go on attempting to open a fan/club dialogue - it’s what they joined for. We are not going away. Now we have a growing membership, we CAN’T go away. We will continue to explore all avenues, and there are still avenues left to explore. We are certainly not going to abandon all those who have parted with their cash to support us. I, for one, would certainly like to pass the baton on! We are meeting next week, one of the topics being the election policy which will lead to an elected board. We have had to make decisions as a board to get the Trust up and running, but, as I said earlier, we are looking at ways to engage the members. We are sending regular, short, emails to all of the membership (as we did with the tweet) to let people know what is happening, before it happens. We are not a protest group, we are not trying to be confrontational. I apologise if anyone has been offended by anything we have done or said. I assure you that no offence was meant. I also apologise to my fellow board members for shooting my mouth off again - although they should be used to it by now! Join us, put yourself up for election, talk to us - someone’s got to! (Whoops!) So you get a lot of grief for "that" tweet for it being perceived as a dig at the club and then you end a considered post with another one?! Bravo!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Sept 18, 2017 8:42:53 GMT
Haven’t read this thread for some time. I’ve been busy trying to think about an election policy, learning how to mail merge so we can print off share certificates (yes, every member has one share and one vote), learning how to construct and manage a website, building spreadsheets, attending meetings, learning how do do email campaigns, writing to members, thinking about the actual mechanics of member voting, etc., etc., etc. As have all members of the INTERIM board. We have donated hours and hours of our time, and considerable amounts of our own money (pre membership launch) to set this Trust up - for the benefit of the fans, and, we believed for the benefit of the club in that they could monitor, through the Trust, the concerns and thoughts of their customers. Yes, I AM a member of the interim board! If I wanted to just join a group of disgruntled fans I could have done so with a lot less time and cost, just by posting on this forum. There has been some criticism of “the Tweet”. I assure you that this was a genuine attempt to engage with the club. The light-hearted nature of the tweet was intentional to avoid any accusations of being confrontational. I’m sure that if the tweet had been in legalese, then we would have incurred as much criticism. In my opinion, and I stress MY opinion - not the opinions of my fellow board members, I think the criticisms have been a bit “over the top”. I’ve asked the question before - bearing in mind the number of telephone calls, emails and letters that have been sent in a genuine attempt to engage, what options were left open to us? I ask the question seriously. I would love to find an approach we haven’t already tried. Also, bear in mind that we have a responsibility now to those who have joined, to go on attempting to open a fan/club dialogue - it’s what they joined for. We are not going away. Now we have a growing membership, we CAN’T go away. We will continue to explore all avenues, and there are still avenues left to explore. We are certainly not going to abandon all those who have parted with their cash to support us. I, for one, would certainly like to pass the baton on! We are meeting next week, one of the topics being the election policy which will lead to an elected board. We have had to make decisions as a board to get the Trust up and running, but, as I said earlier, we are looking at ways to engage the members. We are sending regular, short, emails to all of the membership (as we did with the tweet) to let people know what is happening, before it happens. We are not a protest group, we are not trying to be confrontational. I apologise if anyone has been offended by anything we have done or said. I assure you that no offence was meant. I also apologise to my fellow board members for shooting my mouth off again - although they should be used to it by now! Join us, put yourself up for election, talk to us - someone’s got to! (Whoops!) So you get a lot of grief for "that" tweet for it being perceived as a dig at the club and then you end a considered post with another one?! Bravo! Haha that's just what I thought too ! 😂
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 9:14:13 GMT
Oh dear! Wholly intentional light hearted banter. Lighten up guys! I doubt the club itself are bothered. Anything we do is perceived as a dig at the club, and yes, I suppose we are in contention with the club at the moment. We want a channel of communication for the fans, and they don't want to give it. Aren't you both guilty of "having a dig at the club" in the past? Is it just your preserve? I'm glad to see that at least Iginla, with the laughing emoticon, took it in the spirit with which it was meant! Why don't you join us if you agree with the concept, and change us from the inside? Or don't you agree with the concept?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 12:42:58 GMT
Serious question, not knocking anybody or what you're doing but what other avenues do you actually have to explore to get the club to engage with you?
As confirmed to me on Twitter the club doesn't currently have any legal obligation to recognise an Ice Hockey supporters trust. As far as I can make out you are hopeful the legislation will be amended to match that of say a football supporters trust where there is that obligation to engage.
Until the club have to legally engage with you I really don't see what options you have available to you that will provide any progress, which is why I suspect you have now resorted to calling them out on Twitter.
I'm in agreement with what you are trying to achieve with the trust but until that legislation changes(if it even does) then the trust is largely toothless.
When is that Neil Black Q & A? I know they are taking pre-submitted questions so you'd probably never get a look in in that regard but have you thought about organising an event around this? Protest inside Saltbox or outside if they won't let you in. At least somebody at the club would then feel how tangible your presence is. Currently beyond a few green flags at games they don't feel a thing.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Sept 18, 2017 13:44:41 GMT
Personally, when I gave my tenner, I wasn't expecting the world to change within a couple of weeks. From what I know of the club, I knew it would resist. I'd expect those on the board of the ST to continue to try, politely and professionally, to open a dialogue with the club, and to that extent I saw no issue with the original tweet. The replies perhaps got a little spikey, which was somewhat unfortunate.
The important thing for me is that the trust isn't just for what's happening in September 2017, but what'll be happening in September 2027. The current regime at the club won't always be around.
A lot of people seem to be expecting to see immediate benefits, so I would suggest using the opportunity that the club have inadvertently given the trust with the enforced name change, to work with other hockey clubs in the city (Lions downwards) in a positive manner. Whether that's encouraging the membership to attend those games or whatever. If the trust can promote positive experiences with these other teams, it becomes more difficult for the big team, and those who support their stance, to justify their attitude towards it.
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grrm
Pat Casey
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Post by grrm on Sept 18, 2017 14:56:11 GMT
I too have given my tenner and just like Yotes am not expecting any immediate changes in the way Panthers engage (or not) with their fans. I saw no problem with the tweet whatsoever, as a member of the trust I knew it was going to be posted, so it only came as a surprise to those who were not (yet?) members of the Trust.
At this stage I feel one of the prime objectives (other than trying to get the Panthers to engage in some dialog) is to keep the membership drive going, enrolling new members, seeing more and more Trust scarfs at games; to the point where the membership numbers becomes a significant proportion of an average Panthers crowd and as such makes it more difficult for Panthers to simply ignore them.
Why any club would ignore a Supporters Trust is beyond me and because it has ignored the Trust (other than trying to sue them!) only makes the need for a Trust so much greater.
Everyone should get on-board, have their "two penneth" as to exactly which direction they want the trust to go and help make positive changes in the way the Panthers treat their fans for the future and also help the Trust to provide long term backing and support to the club.
Get behind the Trust and The Panthers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 16:46:46 GMT
Stratty, I assure you that there are other avenues to go down. I can't yet put them on here, because a.) I would be pre-empting next weeks board meeting, and b.) I'm sure this forum is read by the club's management. A change of legislation is not at all beyond the realms of possibility, and other organisations are interested in our progress (or should that be lack of progress!). I must stress again, these are MY opinions only and I cannot yet speak for other board members. In fact, I'll probably get the chop!
As mentioned in the posts others have made, we are not here for the short haul, but it is imperative that we maximise our membership as soon as possible to give us some credibility with any organisation we decide to work with.
The NB Q&A is on 27th September, venue still to be arranged I believe, but, as you say, I doubt we will get a chance to ask questions or put forward our view.
As to having a protest, we would still like to move on without any confrontation between Trust and club.
Anyway, thanks for your interest, we might persuade you to join yet!
Thanks also to Yotes and grrm. As I said earlier, I'm sure it will be a long haul.
Also, like grrm, I just cannot understand why the club doesn't accept us. Even from a purely selfish point of view you would think they would rather have us inside the tent p-ing out, than outside p-ing in!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Sept 18, 2017 17:15:54 GMT
Serious question, not knocking anybody or what you're doing but what other avenues do you actually have to explore to get the club to engage with you? As confirmed to me on Twitter the club doesn't currently have any legal obligation to recognise an Ice Hockey supporters trust. As far as I can make out you are hopeful the legislation will be amended to match that of say a football supporters trust where there is that obligation to engage. Until the club have to legally engage with you I really don't see what options you have available to you that will provide any progress, which is why I suspect you have now resorted to calling them out on Twitter. I'm in agreement with what you are trying to achieve with the trust but until that legislation changes(if it even does) then the trust is largely toothless. When is that Neil Black Q & A? I know they are taking pre-submitted questions so you'd probably never get a look in in that regard but have you thought about organising an event around this? Protest inside Saltbox or outside if they won't let you in. At least somebody at the club would then feel how tangible your presence is. Currently beyond a few green flags at games they don't feel a thing. Where was it announced that the next Q+A on the 27th was pre submitted questions ? I haven't seen that.
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Post by spik on Sept 19, 2017 5:50:38 GMT
I certainly hope by now that the Trusts idea/ endeavour/hope and existence is now clearly understood. That it is not to be adjudged a protest group yet then this suggestion is made. Avoiding people is not their aim, it is to engage. That would be now, tomorrow the next day or whatever. Complete avoidance seems to be well documented/understood by one party so far, ie) Q and A session. So who's more open and welcoming and not confrontational thus far?
All the best to the Trusts team for the on-going future.
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5+game
Terry Kurtenbach
Posts: 2,974
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Post by 5+game on Sept 19, 2017 14:56:05 GMT
I have to agree that the trust has done some good things but that tweet undid a lot of that work. And then when a member do TCW questioned you, they got a response of "well what has TCW achieved with their approach so far" I'm sorry but these guys gave you advertisement and promoted your trust and then you attack them for sharing an opinion. Their mantra isn't to build relations with the club like yours. Agreed. Actually, I think that the dig at TCW is even worse... what on earth have TCW done to deserve that? They have done an immense amount of good work over the years keeping fans informed and promoting all aspects of ice hockey in Nottingham and elsewhere. Are they not allowed to question anything about the Trust? Are only supportive comments allowed? I'm not about to start being hostile towards this Trust, as it has the potential to do some good... but these two examples - plus the hostile overreaction to PantherB on page 4 of this very thread - indicate a possible arrogance which is quite worrying... the kind of spinal-reflex hostility of which Gary Moran is often accused. That is why - for the moment at least - I'm not considering joining it. You should see the personal facebook messages you get if you dare to have anything other than positivity towards the trust. The more I see from certain hierarchy at the trust the more I understand the Panthers stance towards them.
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Post by Rob Scott on Sept 19, 2017 15:35:18 GMT
Agreed. Actually, I think that the dig at TCW is even worse... what on earth have TCW done to deserve that? They have done an immense amount of good work over the years keeping fans informed and promoting all aspects of ice hockey in Nottingham and elsewhere. Are they not allowed to question anything about the Trust? Are only supportive comments allowed? I'm not about to start being hostile towards this Trust, as it has the potential to do some good... but these two examples - plus the hostile overreaction to PantherB on page 4 of this very thread - indicate a possible arrogance which is quite worrying... the kind of spinal-reflex hostility of which Gary Moran is often accused. That is why - for the moment at least - I'm not considering joining it. You should see the personal facebook messages you get if you dare to have anything other than positivity towards the trust. The more I see from certain hierarchy at the trust the more I understand the Panthers stance towards them. Could you share those please? I run the Facebook page for the trust and have never messaged anyone anything like that. I'd be interested to know where these messages are coming from so that we can look into it.
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Post by tootootrain on Sept 19, 2017 16:35:51 GMT
Could you share those please? I run the Facebook page for the trust and have never messaged anyone anything like that. I'd be interested to know where these messages are coming from so that we can look into it. Even if you don't want to share them publicly, please share them direct with 'FTM'. There will be differences of opinion, but if NIHST members are trying to intimidate non-members due to their opinions, this is something that needs to be communicated back to the membership to educate said members on why this is counterproductive. If those making these comments towards you are not NIHST members though, surely it would be good for your own piece of mind, regarding your view of the trust, if 'FTM' can clarify this point?
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Post by spik on Sept 19, 2017 22:07:30 GMT
Could you share those please? I run the Facebook page for the trust and have never messaged anyone anything like that. I'd be interested to know where these messages are coming from so that we can look into it. Even if you don't want to share them publicly, please share them direct with 'FTM'. There will be differences of opinion, but if NIHST members are trying to intimidate non-members due to their opinions, this is something that needs to be communicated back to the membership to educate said members on why this is counterproductive. If those making these comments towards you are not NIHST members though, surely it would be good for your own piece of mind, regarding your view of the trust, if 'FTM' can clarify this point? Indeed.....are the 'hierarchy' known to us or are we making assumptions? I can even understand if people amongst the trust may be a little OTT on subjects. You get them everywhere. It's said that these 'facebook' comments show the trust in a bad light but it's not said who they are, so is not helping. They could be anyone.
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Post by Rob Scott on Sept 25, 2017 21:39:58 GMT
Interesting board meeting this evening. Lots of positives ideas discussed and some exciting projects coming up soon. To get involved sign up at www.nihst.org/membership
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 9:42:44 GMT
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Caesar
Matt Myers
Posts: 1,768
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Post by Caesar on Sept 26, 2017 12:54:54 GMT
Well, this whole thing is a bloody mess. Dreadful attitude from the club to supporters who only want to have a positive input. The only slight criticism i can have of the trust, is choosing green and white colours for representation. Dont understand that at all, not Panthers colours in the slightest and,for me, seems a deliberately devisive move.
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Yotes
Forum Admin
Posts: 16,423
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Post by Yotes on Sept 26, 2017 13:00:49 GMT
Forest green and white are colours on the (albeit unofficial) flag of Nottinghamshire. Makes sense with the Trust now being for hockey within the region rather than just the Panthers.
I assumed not using Panthers colours was part of the lawyering up tbh.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Sept 26, 2017 13:03:11 GMT
Well, this whole thing is a bloody mess. Dreadful attitude from the club to supporters who only want to have a positive input. The only slight criticism i can have of the trust, is choosing green and white colours for representation. Dont understand that at all, not Panthers colours in the slightest and,for me, seems a deliberately devisive move. Well if they'd chosen yellow,black or white they would no doubt have received a legal letter claiming infringement of colour copyright or something equally ridiculous ! 🙄 Then again....blue or pink would probably have been the only "safe" colours in that regard. But you're right,what a complete bloody mess and the club should be thoroughly ashamed of their attitude.
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Robbie Nud
David Clarke
I really do look like this.
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Robbie Nud on Sept 26, 2017 14:04:51 GMT
Well, this whole thing is a bloody mess. Dreadful attitude from the club to supporters who only want to have a positive input. The only slight criticism i can have of the trust, is choosing green and white colours for representation. Dont understand that at all, not Panthers colours in the slightest and,for me, seems a deliberately devisive move. It was because of the threat of legal action which caused the rebrand of name, logo, colours etc. and green & white being akin to the Nottinghamshire colours encompasses of all ice hockey in the city.
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Post by spik on Sept 26, 2017 17:32:21 GMT
Well, this whole thing is a bloody mess. Dreadful attitude from the club to supporters who only want to have a positive input. The only slight criticism i can have of the trust, is choosing green and white colours for representation. Dont understand that at all, not Panthers colours in the slightest and,for me, seems a deliberately devisive move. It was because of the threat of legal action which caused the rebrand of name, logo, colours etc. and green & white being akin to the Nottinghamshire colours encompasses of all ice hockey in the city. Other than the fact that the club has just about used every colour in the palate and who knows what our identity is now. The GMB Panthers (no Nottinham) it is then.
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Post by Rob Scott on Sept 28, 2017 13:48:26 GMT
Was great to chat to some fellow Panthers fans before last nights game and even better to see some new members signing up today. Thanks to all of you who have signed up so far. www.nihst.org/membership
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 417
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Post by Discoray on Sept 29, 2017 12:48:33 GMT
After some very helpful exchanges with Rob (including an insightful 1 hour phone conversation!) I have paid my dues and signed up as a member of the NIHST. Obviously I may not be a supporter of the Panthers, but I’m a very big supporter of the ideas the trust is looking to bring in, and is something I feel is desperately needed brought into the sport here.
No pressure folks, but the work both the members and board do I think is going to weigh heavy on if we will see more trusts come into UK Ice Hockey. To help ensure it is a success, I would urge both Panthers and non-Panthers fans alike to sign-on, it could one day end up be the best value tenner you’ve spent on ice hockey.
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