Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 16:04:19 GMT
Why shouldn't the club aspire to emulate the best? Frankly I find the negativity on here 3 months before a puck is dropped in anger is staggering. A lot of it is concerns rather than negativity. Corey has a coaching style that doesn't really seem to suit having another hand. He is indecisive as it is and I cannot see that changing with another assistant coach. I am sure though that everyone expressing concerns would be more than happy to be proved wrong but at the moment it is hard to see us being anything other than mediocre next season. I envy those that are happy with cups because our long game is in dire need of evolution. So if Panthers last two forwards looked potentially 30 goal forwards and we signed 3 quality d men then you'd still consider us mediocre? It's purely because there's not much offensive output .....
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on May 30, 2016 19:01:10 GMT
David has always wanted to get into the coaching side and does excellent work coaching the kids in the off season. With the greatest respect FS. There is a world of difference in coaching 12 year old kids and coaching the likes of Janssen,Moran and Dimmen etc. It reminds me of a conversation i had with Nick Boynton where he said "yeah it's great,but most of the coaching is like what we used to do in the juniors". And that was under Paul Adey ! I can see the benefit of several coaches,if they are good at it and the head coach will listen. The big problem we have is that Neilson will not listen,will not take ideas on board,will not change systems that aren't working and does it his way or no way. That makes assistant coaches totally pointless,because all it does is confuse players !!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 30, 2016 19:11:31 GMT
A lot of it is concerns rather than negativity. Corey has a coaching style that doesn't really seem to suit having another hand. He is indecisive as it is and I cannot see that changing with another assistant coach. I am sure though that everyone expressing concerns would be more than happy to be proved wrong but at the moment it is hard to see us being anything other than mediocre next season. I envy those that are happy with cups because our long game is in dire need of evolution. So if Panthers last two forwards looked potentially 30 goal forwards and we signed 3 quality d men then you'd still consider us mediocre? It's purely because there's not much offensive output ..... If that happened Pidge then i would be happy. But those forwards need to be Kolnik quality or better and the Dmen top notch,with at least one of them a minimum 40 point quality puck carrying offensive guy.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 30, 2016 20:09:16 GMT
David has always wanted to get into the coaching side and does excellent work coaching the kids in the off season. With the greatest respect FS. There is a world of difference in coaching 12 year old kids and coaching the likes of Janssen,Moran and Dimmen etc. It reminds me of a conversation i had with Nick Boynton where he said "yeah it's great,but most of the coaching is like what we used to do in the juniors". And that was under Paul Adey ! I can see the benefit of several coaches,if they are good at it and the head coach will listen. The big problem we have is that Neilson will not listen,will not take ideas on board,will not change systems that aren't working and does it his way or no way. That makes assistant coaches totally pointless,because all it does is confuse players !! No, I meant I expect that was the carrot
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Post by thebestpanthers on May 30, 2016 20:09:42 GMT
On the other hand it could be that each coach then deals with particular aspects of the player development, thus improving that particular skill - I.e. one coach concentrates on PK skills and takes a small group on training for this, whilst another concentrates on PP skills with another small group. Bit like one-to-one training. It may work, you never know you may be able to get each line training together (waits for usual suspects to remark about Cory changing lines) - but whatever you do don't wait till the start of the season to condemn the trial I see your point and I would agree that would be a way forward that would benefit all, however a small flaw is that none of the 3 "coaches/managers" are experts (from past experience ) in any of the areas you stated especially the PP. We did have one season where the PK was good but I suspect that was down to the players available i.e. Fox and co.. To quote another saying "those that can do, those that cannot teach" I wish people would at least let the season start before condemning the team - seem to recollect that the "Grand Slam" team were not much good on paper, and look what happened there, games are won by a team, not an individual, but an individual can inspire a team to do well.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 30, 2016 20:35:02 GMT
With the greatest respect FS. There is a world of difference in coaching 12 year old kids and coaching the likes of Janssen,Moran and Dimmen etc. It reminds me of a conversation i had with Nick Boynton where he said "yeah it's great,but most of the coaching is like what we used to do in the juniors". And that was under Paul Adey ! I can see the benefit of several coaches,if they are good at it and the head coach will listen. The big problem we have is that Neilson will not listen,will not take ideas on board,will not change systems that aren't working and does it his way or no way. That makes assistant coaches totally pointless,because all it does is confuse players !! No, I meant I expect that was the carrot Indeed FS. The carrot to make up for the drop in wages due to the extra import. ?
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 30, 2016 21:06:01 GMT
No, I meant I expect that was the carrot Indeed FS. The carrot to make up for the drop in wages due to the extra import. ? Interesting if it was. The real problem is the dire lack of new Brits coming through so the Brits again keep their premium even though the import limit goes up.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 30, 2016 22:04:14 GMT
Indeed FS. The carrot to make up for the drop in wages due to the extra import. ? Interesting if it was. The real problem is the dire lack of new Brits coming through so the Brits again keep their premium even though the import limit goes up. It's only a premium though IF the teams will pay it. I find it very very odd that about six weeks ago Corey said his first priority was to get the Brits signed,yet we then get lots of imports first,Clarkey has only just signed,we have still seen no sign of Oakford or Green and Betteridge only seems to have come back because Mosey departed. Then there is Matthew Myers,who knows there,did he really go because of family stuff or because Panthers possibly dropped his wages and therefore made it less attractive to be away from family ? I don't know,but something seems very odd and its suggesting to me that Panthers are playing hardball over money with the Brits
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 30, 2016 22:43:23 GMT
Interesting if it was. The real problem is the dire lack of new Brits coming through so the Brits again keep their premium even though the import limit goes up. It's only a premium though IF the teams will pay it. I find it very very odd that about six weeks ago Corey said his first priority was to get the Brits signed,yet we then get lots of imports first,Clarkey has only just signed,we have still seen no sign of Oakford or Green and Betteridge only seems to have come back because Mosey departed. Then there is Matthew Myers,who knows there,did he really go because of family stuff or because Panthers possibly dropped his wages and therefore made it less attractive to be away from family ? I don't know,but something seems very odd and its suggesting to me that Panthers are playing hardball over money with the Brits The odd started when Swindlehurst left/was moved on mid season.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 30, 2016 22:55:20 GMT
It's only a premium though IF the teams will pay it. I find it very very odd that about six weeks ago Corey said his first priority was to get the Brits signed,yet we then get lots of imports first,Clarkey has only just signed,we have still seen no sign of Oakford or Green and Betteridge only seems to have come back because Mosey departed. Then there is Matthew Myers,who knows there,did he really go because of family stuff or because Panthers possibly dropped his wages and therefore made it less attractive to be away from family ? I don't know,but something seems very odd and its suggesting to me that Panthers are playing hardball over money with the Brits The odd started when Swindlehurst left/was moved on mid season. The odd did start with Swindlehurst FS,but that was an easy out,partly bad attitude compounded further because we had one Brit too many after Lacho messed Panthers around last summer.
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Post by PantherB on May 31, 2016 11:26:34 GMT
This, is hockey. Assistant Coaches have to listen to what the Head Coach wants, and train players accordingly. If an Assistant has a reccomendation then they discuss with the Head Coach. It's absolute rubbish that it's 'Hardly ever an improvement'. NHL Teams generally have 3 or 4 Assistant Coaches.. Take the Blackhawks for example, they have 2 Assistant Coaches, 1 Goaltending Coach and 1 Strength/Conditioning Coach.. Now tell me, does that go wrong? 3 Stanley Cups in the last 6 years says otherwise. And you know this how? You cant possibly be comparing our backwater league to the best in the world are you... seriously?.. I think you will find ALL the NHL clubs have a similar setup therefore negating any advantage or otherwise one has over the rest, Blackhawks won as they had hot netminding and a team that played for each other oh and some stonking superstars bit like saying oh look Barcelona or Madrid won in the football because they had better training grounds... nothing to do with having the best players at all then... I am sure David will add to the overall package and hopefully be the difference in winning the league next season but in my experience of watching hockey (and sports in general) over the past half century or so its who ever has the best team (and mostly players) wins nothing more complicated than that.. Because you'll find that teams with depth in the coaching department always develop the better players and usually get the team playing at a high level. I compare to the NHL because every team has a deep coaching setup, without it they'd be the Edinburgh Capitals of the NHL. It isn't just about having the best players. Just because they're the best, it doesn't mean they're the right players. You say you've been watching sport and hckey for over half a century, you should be able to think back to Team USA in 1980. Their team was full of college kids compared to the rest they played against, on paper, had no chance.. look at how they were coached. It's that coaching which turned them into the right team with the right players and as a result they won Gold. There's always more too it than bluntely looking at stuff in the 'will he win us the league?' kind of mindset. We might not win it next season but i'd rather have a great coaching team who will develop players and get them performing at their best. We are a team that should be challenging for every trophy each season but people have gotten excesively greedy over recent years, Corey is, like Ling said.. a victim of his own success. People need to think beyond the current season when we make coaching appointments and other staff appointments, just because it might be a bit uncertain now, it doesn't neccesarily mean in a couple years that it'll be the same. For all we know, in a couple of years when Clarke has retired and gotten a lot more experience of coaching at EIHL level.. he might just figure something out or develop a game plan over time with Corey which could see is walk the league and repeat 2012-13. People are far too harsh on players and coaches on this forum, it's ridiculous. Only thing that will ever please anyone is if they've got NHL in their stats.
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Post by panthers_nyr on May 31, 2016 12:22:28 GMT
And you know this how? You cant possibly be comparing our backwater league to the best in the world are you... seriously?.. I think you will find ALL the NHL clubs have a similar setup therefore negating any advantage or otherwise one has over the rest, Blackhawks won as they had hot netminding and a team that played for each other oh and some stonking superstars bit like saying oh look Barcelona or Madrid won in the football because they had better training grounds... nothing to do with having the best players at all then... I am sure David will add to the overall package and hopefully be the difference in winning the league next season but in my experience of watching hockey (and sports in general) over the past half century or so its who ever has the best team (and mostly players) wins nothing more complicated than that.. Because you'll find that teams with depth in the coaching department always develop the better players and usually get the team playing at a high level. I compare to the NHL because every team has a deep coaching setup, without it they'd be the Edinburgh Capitals of the NHL. It isn't just about having the best players. Just because they're the best, it doesn't mean they're the right players. You say you've been watching sport and hckey for over half a century, you should be able to think back to Team USA in 1980. Their team was full of college kids compared to the rest they played against, on paper, had no chance.. look at how they were coached. It's that coaching which turned them into the right team with the right players and as a result they won Gold. There's always more too it than bluntely looking at stuff in the 'will he win us the league?' kind of mindset. We might not win it next season but i'd rather have a great coaching team who will develop players and get them performing at their best. We are a team that should be challenging for every trophy each season but people have gotten excesively greedy over recent years, Corey is, like Ling said.. a victim of his own success. People need to think beyond the current season when we make coaching appointments and other staff appointments, just because it might be a bit uncertain now, it doesn't neccesarily mean in a couple years that it'll be the same. For all we know, in a couple of years when Clarke has retired and gotten a lot more experience of coaching at EIHL level.. he might just figure something out or develop a game plan over time with Corey which could see is walk the league and repeat 2012-13. People are far too harsh on players and coaches on this forum, it's ridiculous. Only thing that will ever please anyone is if they've got NHL in their stats. Even if they have NHL games in their CV some people still find something else to moan about them before the player has even set foot in the country!
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 31, 2016 13:58:52 GMT
Because you'll find that teams with depth in the coaching department always develop the better players and usually get the team playing at a high level. I compare to the NHL because every team has a deep coaching setup, without it they'd be the Edinburgh Capitals of the NHL. It isn't just about having the best players. Just because they're the best, it doesn't mean they're the right players. You say you've been watching sport and hckey for over half a century, you should be able to think back to Team USA in 1980. Their team was full of college kids compared to the rest they played against, on paper, had no chance.. look at how they were coached. It's that coaching which turned them into the right team with the right players and as a result they won Gold. There's always more too it than bluntely looking at stuff in the 'will he win us the league?' kind of mindset. We might not win it next season but i'd rather have a great coaching team who will develop players and get them performing at their best. We are a team that should be challenging for every trophy each season but people have gotten excesively greedy over recent years, Corey is, like Ling said.. a victim of his own success. People need to think beyond the current season when we make coaching appointments and other staff appointments, just because it might be a bit uncertain now, it doesn't neccesarily mean in a couple years that it'll be the same. For all we know, in a couple of years when Clarke has retired and gotten a lot more experience of coaching at EIHL level.. he might just figure something out or develop a game plan over time with Corey which could see is walk the league and repeat 2012-13. People are far too harsh on players and coaches on this forum, it's ridiculous. Only thing that will ever please anyone is if they've got NHL in their stats. Even if they have NHL games in their CV some people still find something else to moan about them before the player has even set foot in the country! Let's win the league again for the 2nd time in our history and then the moaning will slow down I'm sure.
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Post by panthers_nyr on May 31, 2016 14:24:33 GMT
Even if they have NHL games in their CV some people still find something else to moan about them before the player has even set foot in the country! Let's win the league again for the 2nd time in our history and then the moaning will slow down I'm sure. I'm sure it will slow down if we did and I'll admit I have moaned quite a bit at times but not about everything. Don't get me wrong I want us to win the league as much as anyone and stop bugging up cup wins but I find the constant negativity in every signing or any kind of attempted progress in an area, for example, Clarke becoming an assistant coach rather ridiculous.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
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Post by nate24 on May 31, 2016 16:24:57 GMT
Let's win the league again for the 2nd time in our history and then the moaning will slow down I'm sure. I'm sure it will slow down if we did and I'll admit I have moaned quite a bit at times but not about everything. Don't get me wrong I want us to win the league as much as anyone and stop bugging up cup wins but I find the constant negativity in every signing or any kind of attempted progress in an area, for example, Clarke becoming an assistant coach rather ridiculous. Concerns perceived as negativity is ridiculous. This is a discussion forum. Make your point rather than whinging about others contributions.
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Post by panthers_nyr on May 31, 2016 17:16:06 GMT
I'm sure it will slow down if we did and I'll admit I have moaned quite a bit at times but not about everything. Don't get me wrong I want us to win the league as much as anyone and stop bugging up cup wins but I find the constant negativity in every signing or any kind of attempted progress in an area, for example, Clarke becoming an assistant coach rather ridiculous. Concerns perceived as negativity is ridiculous. This is a discussion forum. Make your point rather than whinging about others contributions. As you said, it's a discussion forum and I put my point across.. You have nothing to moan about..
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on May 31, 2016 17:43:28 GMT
Concerns perceived as negativity is ridiculous. This is a discussion forum. Make your point rather than whinging about others contributions. As you said, it's a discussion forum and I put my point across.. You have nothing to moan about.. Fair point, you got me but I still feel the best way to counter perceived negativity is a well constructed counter argument rather than a redundant comment that does nothing to make your point. I've seen you post and I've seen you argue, you have better ammunition than that.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on May 31, 2016 17:59:28 GMT
When Neilson has gone after his current two year deal ends and we have Clarkey as coach and probably Goody as his trusty assistant,then we will see how good an idea this wasn't !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 18:15:23 GMT
When Neilson has gone after his current two year deal ends and we have Clarkey as coach and probably Goody as his trusty assistant,then we will see how good an idea this wasn't ! Clarke best not be rookie coach in 2 years time!
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Post by PantherB on May 31, 2016 18:17:45 GMT
When Neilson has gone after his current two year deal ends and we have Clarkey as coach and probably Goody as his trusty assistant,then we will see how good an idea this wasn't ! Clarke as coach is something i, and probably a fair amount of people wouldn't mind seeing, or at least giving it a fair shot. I'm sure Corey will remain with us after his contract anyway, just to keep you and many others frothing from the mouth..
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Post by texpef on May 31, 2016 20:47:07 GMT
When Neilson has gone after his current two year deal ends and we have Clarkey as coach and probably Goody as his trusty assistant,then we will see how good an idea this wasn't ! Clarke as coach is something i, and probably a fair amount of people wouldn't mind seeing, or at least giving it a fair shot. I'm sure Corey will remain with us after his contract anyway, just to keep you and many others frothing from the mouth.. I bet the sun is always shining where you live too...
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 31, 2016 21:34:49 GMT
When Neilson has gone after his current two year deal ends and we have Clarkey as coach and probably Goody as his trusty assistant,then we will see how good an idea this wasn't ! Clarke as coach is something i, and probably a fair amount of people wouldn't mind seeing, or at least giving it a fair shot. I'm sure Corey will remain with us after his contract anyway, just to keep you and many others frothing from the mouth.. Not going to happen in a million years and I think the EIHL is pretty much above the "give it a fair shot" stage even now.
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nate24
Greg Hadden
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Post by nate24 on May 31, 2016 22:06:47 GMT
Clarke as coach is something i, and probably a fair amount of people wouldn't mind seeing, or at least giving it a fair shot. I'm sure Corey will remain with us after his contract anyway, just to keep you and many others frothing from the mouth.. Not going to happen in a million years and I think the EIHL is pretty much above the "give it a fair shot" stage even now. Really? It's absolutely stagnant at the minute. Though not really into a second assistant coach I think the club and the league need fresh thinking fast and that will require 'a fair shot' mentality to try and get things moving.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on May 31, 2016 22:33:17 GMT
Not going to happen in a million years and I think the EIHL is pretty much above the "give it a fair shot" stage even now. Really? It's absolutely stagnant at the minute. Though not really into a second assistant coach I think the club and the league need fresh thinking fast and that will require 'a fair shot' mentality to try and get things moving. "a fair shot" mentality with someone not from the UK who is experienced and knows what they are doing not a YTS scheme for pee wee league coaches.
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Post by wasteoftime on Jun 1, 2016 6:39:52 GMT
You can have as many coaches as you like however, if the best one is not very good What is the likely outcome?
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