yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 456
Member is Online
|
Post by yeti on Apr 8, 2016 23:37:43 GMT
Quite happy with Corey coming back. There was a point I wanted a change but after finally getting the team sorted partly with the late additions of two good Dmen then hopefully he can now build on this core of players. The league winning team took three years to build by keeping the best and adding to it. The last few years have been a case of starting to build the team from scratch and quite a lot of players didn't work out, plus the late decision on coaching last summer meant we lost some good players we wanted to keep. Now maybe with the good core we have and a full summer to recruit he can build a good team that can challenge for the league.
|
|
|
Post by micklemas on Apr 8, 2016 23:56:49 GMT
Am I missing something here??? 12 odd years ago the main moaning point of the the Panthers fans was that we couldn't keep a head coach. We went 2 or 3 years before they switched (usually to our most hated). Finally after all this time we have a head coach that is gambling on being better than he, and the team, has been, for fudges sake it appears he got offers from the continent!!! My first game we had 'big bad Barry' Neicker, Jamie Leach, David Struch, PC Druine (the first time), Jimmy Paek... and a heck of a lot more, on paper, quality payers. They WERE the best team to never to win the league and the team that did eventually win the league are merely a shadow of those that went before. And yes I thought the team that did win the league deserved it but the point is it took a head coach to push them further and harder to reach that goal. That is the same head coach that has pushed every team for the last 5 odd years further and harder than, again on paper, they should have been to win cups, even if you think they are tin cups, for US THE FANS. I will support Corey as long as he and his family decide they want to be here! He is a credit to the shirt and I every time I put the shirt on I will remember his ten years at OUR TEAM.
|
|
Lawman
Pat Casey
Stretford End King
Posts: 237
|
Post by Lawman on Apr 9, 2016 7:40:54 GMT
Very pleased Corey is back for two years I would personally have given him three years for all the success he has given the club and its fans over recent years
|
|
|
Post by panthers4ever on Apr 9, 2016 8:23:49 GMT
Welcome back Corey
|
|
|
Post by fishman on Apr 9, 2016 9:03:16 GMT
A high price to pay for a CC & Playoff trophies, the dross he dished up in the league was appalling, no ST for me, pick & choose my games or should that be pick & mix, and going to see the same opposition 5 or 6 times a season X 3 clubs that not for me.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 9:18:52 GMT
All you need to see in his statement regarding the league title challenge it's somewhere halfway down... it should be the first thing he mentions. Priorities all wrong from the get go !
|
|
|
Post by thebestpanthers on Apr 9, 2016 9:37:48 GMT
Marmite on toast any-one - at least we are not going to get two months of "is he staying, is he going" - we now know he is staying - next point "two year contract" Lets sign the whole team for two years now, OK we have had some poor games, but we have also had some outstanding games as well - most fans (not all I must say) have been reasonably happy, and predominantly hinted that they would like most players back. - The comments are that the EIHL is a beer league where players come for a rest before retiring, so offering players a two year contract can only be an advantage - other teams seem to have settled coaching staff so why not us - next step is to decide if Stracts comes back, or we go for a new assistant (Brad Moran) - need a different captain (I like Clarke but not as captain)
|
|
|
Post by ashfieldpanther on Apr 9, 2016 9:56:48 GMT
Stability and continuity are good things. I'm pleased he's back. For all those wondering about the two year contract, soccer managers get 2-3 yr deals all the time and then get sacked after 16 games !
|
|
grumpy
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 103
|
Post by grumpy on Apr 9, 2016 10:08:49 GMT
Predictable mixed response but I am pleased to see him back. Yes, we have under performed in the league over the past few years but where is the coach who would guarantee better results? Chuck Webber`s struggles at the start of the season have shown how difficult it is for someone unused to The EIHL and Corey out-coached him in the playoffs. So, Adey (does he have the contacts for recruitment?), Finnerty, Big Doug, Gerad Adams ? I don`t see any outstanding candidates out there and I am sure that Devils or Giants would have been happy to have Corey had we not signed him up.I suspect that we may concentrate on the league for the next couple of years but I do think it requires a different mindset and skill set; I disagree with those who say that the league is the true test of a teams quality; it certainly rewards those with the tenacity, perseverance, and sheer bloody-minded will to win but to succeed in the cups you need players with the skill and nerve to rise to the occasion in sudden death situations. Panthers are the only team in the past six years (possibly longer, I havn`t checked) to have won another trophy in the same year as the league and I think it will be harder to do so in the future as the lower ranked teams become more competitive. Welcome back Corey.
|
|
nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
|
Post by nate24 on Apr 9, 2016 11:52:55 GMT
Yay! Two seasons of 'tinkering'.
|
|
nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
|
Post by nate24 on Apr 9, 2016 11:54:57 GMT
Predictable mixed response but I am pleased to see him back. Yes, we have under performed in the league over the past few years but where is the coach who would guarantee better results? Chuck Webber`s struggles at the start of the season have shown how difficult it is for someone unused to The EIHL and Corey out-coached him in the playoffs. So, Adey (does he have the contacts for recruitment?), Finnerty, Big Doug, Gerad Adams ? I don`t see any outstanding candidates out there and I am sure that Devils or Giants would have been happy to have Corey had we not signed him up.I suspect that we may concentrate on the league for the next couple of years but I do think it requires a different mindset and skill set; I disagree with those who say that the league is the true test of a teams quality; it certainly rewards those with the tenacity, perseverance, and sheer bloody-minded will to win but to succeed in the cups you need players with the skill and nerve to rise to the occasion in sudden death situations. Panthers are the only team in the past six years (possibly longer, I havn`t checked) to have won another trophy in the same year as the league and I think it will be harder to do so in the future as the lower ranked teams become more competitive. Welcome back Corey. Just because the existing league coaches is are inferior does not mean there isn't better out there! You can win a cup on luck, a league takes a real team effort.
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Apr 9, 2016 12:10:51 GMT
Just because the existing league coaches is are inferior does not mean there isn't better out there! No doubt there is... but it's hardly that simple. Finding the right coach is no easy task, and you can't guarantee it wouldn't take him a while to 'settle in'... which would not be greeted with joy, I bet. And getting a 'better' coach is hardly a guarantee of more success. There are 9 other coaches and teams out there who want to win as well... just because we may be the biggest/richest club in the league doesn't mean we can just expect to walk in and take the trophy. 3 semi-finals, 2 finals - and only 1 goal conceded in about 315 minutes of play. That's not luck. That is skill and determination and great teamwork. Over the long haul of the league season, we didn't get it done. No argument there. but not winning the league doesn't mean total failure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 12:31:03 GMT
End of the day Panthers were 5th best this season Shaggy. That's unacceptable... but obviously ok with NB/GM !!!
|
|
|
Post by PantherB on Apr 9, 2016 12:32:56 GMT
I'm a huge fan of Corey, i've practically not known a Nottingham Panthers without Corey as a player and coach as he's been here since before i can remember properly. He's won a lot with us, more than any other coach has with any other team. Corey has brought the club stability and a very good chance in all competitions, something which we may not have had without him, we know what this league is like in terms of needing a strong fan base to build to success, Corey has done that very well. He's also very much against the use of Social Media and not all that keen on regular media as they can twist things and jump to conclusions etc.. You can see why too, although most comments have been positive towards his return, some others are complete garbage and lack respect for someone who has ultimately turned this club around. Like GM, Corey has nothing but the clubs best interests in mind and to have narrow minded fans call him out and question his abilities just because he's not bought us a league title in the last 3 years is ridiculous and to be honest, i'm sure Corey will have felt as if there's little point in him being with us anymore because it's impossible to make everyone happy. 1 league title in 8 years of coaching, not amazing but not overly disappointing considering the times before him.. the times when we had zero chance whatsoever and the times we went 57 years without a title.
Corey isn't an arrogant person either from my eyes, he's very down to earth and to the point. If the other team played better, he'll say it and he'll say where we went wrong. He isn't the sort of person to rub his acheivements in the faces of rivals like a certain GM loves to (Fair enough) he's proud and will enjoy the success for a short period of time before sitting back down and focusing on the next task.
It was the right decision to re-sign him but even though it took a bit longer than needed, i'm pleased Corey actually considered the options open to him in Europe.
|
|
|
Post by wgray on Apr 9, 2016 13:37:44 GMT
Not sure where I stand on this, personally I feel it is a good thing that the coach is signed up early, it helps avoid the issues we had last year (Doucet), I do however feel it needs a re-structure around him, let Neilson take charge, hopefully he will change the assistant coach and change the captain but at the same time keep the majority of the team
On its day our team was the best in the league by a mile, the key is to be consistent and hopefully we can keep the consistency we had 4 seasons ago
|
|
|
Post by thebestpanthers on Apr 9, 2016 14:14:23 GMT
Anyone gone back a year to last summer and looked at what comments were being posted then? - If I can remember there was the same detractors thinking his appointment was a mistake, there were other bemoaning that we took too long in deciding - this year his appointment has been made early - still got the detractors, but at least we will not have to put up with them for the whole of the summer, he has been re-signed, onward and upward to the next moan.
|
|
|
Post by texpef on Apr 9, 2016 16:20:48 GMT
Heres hoping that he proves the doubters including myself wrong and we have two successful seasons but my heart tells me we are likely to have another two seasons of league mediocrity again ... Again I will say I hope I am wrong but the evidence does suggest otherwise..
|
|
|
Post by ryan2939 on Apr 9, 2016 18:00:23 GMT
Positives:- By offering Neilson a two year deal, it provides continuity and makes us look more professional from outsiders, potential players signing for the club. It also suggests that Black is finally putting hockey first. Again linking back to recruitment, we've already seen that Janssen and Mosey are also on two-year deals, so maybe we're looking forward and to develop the league, and definitely the club. As already stated, it will (at least short term) will help with players wanting to commit more to uni deals.
Negatives:- Me personally, didn't want Neilson back. As much as the cup successes and Neilson's record in finals has been. If him, or Black hasn't realised that we want the league, then why is now the time to start focusing. Surely, a new vision from Black would come more hand in hand with someone new at the helm.
There were more than suggestions, that Brad Moran would be the guy to take over and personally I was in favour of this. Although his personality appears to be very similar to Neilson. I think he's got a bigger pedigree and probably better contacts, so I think if we can't keep Moran around (rumoured that he's on his second year next year anyway) then are we actually missing out here? This is only based on assumptions, and I could be wrong, but I think we'd have benefitted more. However this might not be completely out of the picture.
The timing of the two year deal seems odd to me. We've had plenty of double seasons to enjoy in the Neilson era, but why now have we offered him a two-year deal. Surely this is what should have been offered to him after we won the league so we could continue from there. Maybe I've already answered my question about a change in Black's vision, but I'm still slightly puzzled that a lengthy deal (well in terms of British Ice Hockey) has taken all this long to come around.
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 9, 2016 19:00:09 GMT
I reckon the two year deal was probably Corey's doing. Maybe Mr Black offered the usual one year deal again,but if Corey had other offers from Europe he was in a position to risk sticking his ground for the two years.
One thing you do have to consider though when assessing Corey's record of trophies is where he is coaching. Any coach who is in charge of one of the big three in the EIHL is obviously going to win more than at a smaller club.
Put Corey,Thommo or Adey,all coaches who have won several trophies into a small club......and they are not winning anything !
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Apr 9, 2016 22:03:25 GMT
Heres hoping that he proves the doubters including myself wrong and we have two successful seasons but my heart tells me we are likely to have another two seasons of league mediocrity again ... Again I will say I hope I am wrong but the evidence does suggest otherwise.. Evidence... that all depends on how you look at it. Number of league titles won by Corey Neilson = 1 Number of league titles won by any Panthers coach since 1956 who isn't Corey Neilson = 0 That's evidence, isn't it?
|
|
iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
|
Post by iginla on Apr 9, 2016 22:32:54 GMT
Heres hoping that he proves the doubters including myself wrong and we have two successful seasons but my heart tells me we are likely to have another two seasons of league mediocrity again ... Again I will say I hope I am wrong but the evidence does suggest otherwise.. Evidence... that all depends on how you look at it. Number of league titles won by Corey Neilson = 1 Number of league titles won by any Panthers coach since 1956 who isn't Corey Neilson = 0 That's evidence, isn't it? It's evidence when you consider that in the early years we were only a little fish. But in Neilsons era we have been a big big fish in a small pond and still only won it once in sixteen years. In that time,bearing in mind the limited opposition,we should have won the league title four or five times !
|
|
yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 456
Member is Online
|
Post by yeti on Apr 9, 2016 22:57:21 GMT
For Corey to win ten out of ten cup finals Panthers have been in since he was coach takes a lot more than just luck. Especially the way we have won them this year. I thought that this years playoffs final was the most clinical final win by Corey I have seen so far. Don"t get me wrong I want more league titles but I think it"s a bit much knocking the Cup final wins. Panthers have won ten out of the last sixteen that's one hell of a record in any sport.
|
|
nate24
Greg Hadden
Posts: 1,415
|
Post by nate24 on Apr 9, 2016 23:04:51 GMT
Just because the existing league coaches is are inferior does not mean there isn't better out there! No doubt there is... but it's hardly that simple. Finding the right coach is no easy task, and you can't guarantee it wouldn't take him a while to 'settle in'... which would not be greeted with joy, I bet. And getting a 'better' coach is hardly a guarantee of more success. There are 9 other coaches and teams out there who want to win as well... just because we may be the biggest/richest club in the league doesn't mean we can just expect to walk in and take the trophy. 3 semi-finals, 2 finals - and only 1 goal conceded in about 315 minutes of play. That's not luck. That is skill and determination and great teamwork. Over the long haul of the league season, we didn't get it done. No argument there. but not winning the league doesn't mean total failure. I agree there Shaggy but we should be more of a force in the league is my position. 315 minutes is impressive for sure and maybe I was a little harsh on that subject but I still think that the league is the better measure of quality overall.
|
|
|
Post by pantherdman on Apr 10, 2016 8:11:53 GMT
We have no choice but to back him. I'm glad in a way that it isn't another 1 yr, he has no excuses now. I am more diserpointed that the brief is not simply 'win the league!'. I hope he is given all the resources and signs a squad capable of 2 grand slams.
|
|
|
Post by texpef on Apr 10, 2016 8:34:29 GMT
Heres hoping that he proves the doubters including myself wrong and we have two successful seasons but my heart tells me we are likely to have another two seasons of league mediocrity again ... Again I will say I hope I am wrong but the evidence does suggest otherwise.. Evidence... that all depends on how you look at it. Number of league titles won by Corey Neilson = 1 Number of league titles won by any Panthers coach since 1956 who isn't Corey Neilson = 0 That's evidence, isn't it? Missing the point shaggy and I suspect intentionally, Number of seasons in BIG SHINY NEW ARENA WITH 7500 seats most of which have been filled which should give us a financial advantage = 16 Number of seasons league has been won by panthers (in this case CN) = 1 Number of teams likely to actually challenge panthers for the league title most seasons since moving to the NIC = 2 possibly 3 Therfore even simple maths should say it should have been won 4 times, if you take out the season we actually stumbled over the line against what in effect was only one team that completed that season, isn't our league position average something like 4th? I really do fail to see how this is adequate to be honest. As for not winning it previously well.. if you are looking for history spik's ya man but imho we had the makings of what was a very good Heineken league side that could have challenged but then the big spending clubs like Cardiff and then Sheffield came along which weren't satisfied developing their own brits so broke away and formed the ISL. As good as this hockey was panthers were definitely the poor relation to the likes of wage busting teams like Manchester, London, Ayr, Sheffield, Newcastle, even Bracknell in fact pretty much every other team which put us right back at the bottom of the pile again. Fast forward to the EIHL it became apparent that brits and less but higher quality imports were more important, hence the huge advantages of teams like Coventry and vipers/jesters/riverkings (delete as appropriate). On top of this we had an owner who clearly was not going to spend what was necessary to take us to that next level, anyone remember the season we could only win one game a weekend? Finally we get to the CN age, he has a good core of brits, both self developed (and for this I do congratulate him as this I think is were he has excelled) and brought in (Weaver, Myers etc) and it appears at last we are able to at least compete with wages spent, so what happens? Year on year rookie mistakes costs us league titles and the season it is won nothing is learnt. Rather than repeat what has been so successful he throws away the template and starts over again. Whats that phrase, keep doing something and wonder why you get the same result, well he cracked it and yet rather than repeat he went back to the drawing board letting go the star players who had done what was necessary without even a hint of replacing like for like so what have we had? Another two (is it three now) of league mediocrity. There have been very good reasons why for a long time the league was not won (not least of which the team didn't exist) but the past 10 years or so its been very hard to swallow that he hasn't had the resources needed when clear mistakes have repeatedly been made. I do actually give him the benefit of the doubt last season however as I suspect going an import short and not replacing key injuries either at all or not in time (Wiikman in particular) is down to the management and as CN took one for the team there it may be why he has been rewarded with a further 2 years..
|
|