Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 10:17:13 GMT
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Judda
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Judda on Apr 8, 2016 10:51:02 GMT
Decent article. I tend to agree with what you said Jono, we shouldn't wish him away just for most to moan that we don't win anything when he's gone. Which would happen.
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Post by texpef on Apr 8, 2016 11:22:44 GMT
Cant agree here, why would it happen IF he left? No guarantees in life but equally as likely we would challenge for the league better?
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Judda
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Judda on Apr 8, 2016 12:47:36 GMT
Cant agree here, why would it happen IF he left? No guarantees in life but equally as likely we would challenge for the league better? I realised after I posted the comment that it read as if I believe we would do worse without him. Which isn't what I meant. I meant if he left and we were doing terribly people would moan about it so i think now we shouldn't wish him away too quickly. I'm not sure we would challenge any better without him, I think the challenging for the league problem is deep routed in the club. Seems that with the league win in 2013 the attitude of the club may have been 'well we've done it that's the monkey gone now we can relax' something I believe comes higher than Corey. Maybe the GM doesn't really understand what the fans want and thinks he can relax. or maybe it is all Corey and I just like to hate on Gary Moran because I cant stand a man that says 'Noddingham' |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 8, 2016 14:14:31 GMT
Corey does deserve more respect for sure.
But he is his own worst enemy at times with the air of arrogance he carries and his stubbornness to listen.
I'm sure he possibly is a different guy away from hockey,but we can only judge on the Corey we see.
Should he go,maybe or maybe not,but when judging his record you have to take into account what team he is coaching here and the benefits he has in Nottingham which most other EIHL teams don't.
If he jumps,depending where he goes,it might just be him who finds out what he has lost and that he isn't as good as he might think he is !
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Ghost
Matt Myers
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Post by Ghost on Apr 8, 2016 14:32:05 GMT
I for one would be very disappointed if Neilson wasn't coach next season. The lack of league titles is frustrating for sure but you can't argue with his record.
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Post by Bagheera on Apr 8, 2016 15:23:24 GMT
I for one would be very disappointed if Neilson wasn't coach next season. The lack of league titles is frustrating for sure but you can't argue with his record. There is the problem. It depends what you class as "his record ". If you are simply counting the number of trophies and in particular the % of trophies won against those available then absoloutly you cant argue. However if you want to focus on his league record(which many continue to state is the most important) then you can absoloutly argue with it. 1 league title and little over .500 hockey is not even close to good enough. Especially when you consider Panthers resource and the fact that some teams have been all but gimmies over this time. I've stated somewhere that I will back him if he comes back but I'd prefer a change. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 16:16:09 GMT
Corey does deserve more respect for sure. But he is his own worst enemy at times with the air of arrogance he carries and his stubbornness to listen. I'm sure he possibly is a different guy away from hockey,but we can only judge on the Corey we see. Should he go,maybe or maybe not,but when judging his record you have to take into account what team he is coaching here and the benefits he has in Nottingham which most other EIHL teams don't. If he jumps,depending where he goes,it might just be him who finds out what he has lost and that he isn't as good as he might think he is ! Exactly my thoughts mate. I only judge what I see on match nights not what CN may be like away from the rink. Winning cups fantastic but yes I would swap several play off and CC for more league titles. |
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Post by PantherB on Apr 8, 2016 16:42:23 GMT
Shouldn't even be a question whether or not he deserves more respect, he does, hands down.
Corey was a great player for us and he's been an even better coach, the best coach we've had. He's a finals specialist, won 10 of 11 finals, a league and conference trophy. He brings in some great players and is very down to earth when it comes to talking about Panthers and the players. The league does seem to be his downfall but we must remember that the 2 seasons before this one, we were crippled with injuries from start to finish, we'd never have a chance at winning the league.
This season, we lost a few key players for lengthy periods of time, Schultz for 8 or so weeks, Dimmen for a while, Waugh too, Wiikman for a couple months overall. When it came to replacing them, you could raise the point that neither were swiftly replaced and questions can be asked but after some of the signings Corey has made whilst with us, he seems to take his time to ensure it's the right move and there'll be a benefit of it. The signing of Kyle Hardy, wasn't that bad a move, i feel it was more the selfishness of Hardy which cost the team and his tendency to play overly offensive, a role which seemed to catch out other teammates leaving one at the back. As for Madolora, Quick and Macdonald, all have done a very good job for us, Mads lost only 3 in his time here and Quick and Macdonald have provided a great line of defence, both mobile and good on the backcheck.
As Linger said before he left us (or after, can't remember) Corey is a victim of his own success. The silverware he bought to Nottingham in such a short period of time was bound to raise the expectations of fans quicker than it should. One thing that does need to be highlighted is how very very few people have spoken out negatively towards Corey, perhaps just Joe Grimaldi from memory and we all know what a nutsack he is. We have former NHL players, KHL, Liiga, SHL players who've been coached by the best, all complimenting the way Neilson coaches and treats players. He's been key in developing our Brits too, despite their downfalls of late, Lee and Lachowicz wouldn't be half the players they are without Corey and his ambition to make them into something. It's just getting to that point where the pressure being applied to Corey is perhaps swaying his philosophies away from Brit. Development and towards just bringing home as many trophies as possible by using the better imports for the most part, Betteridge has had tiny amounts of ice time this season, in some games he's sat whilst we've had a comfortable lead or was 100% going to lose, still no ice time and Betteridge is good enough for regular shifts, he's a great prospect but you can't win.. If he gets regular shifts, someone will lose ice time and fans will complain, especially if it was an import. If you keep him benched, he won't develop.. fans won't like that and sending him back to Swindon or elsewhere for ice time is too risky because agreements and contracts mean little over here and he could quite easily never come back.
I'm a big fan of Corey, if changes need to be made then it's above him where they need to be changed. I'd hope we'll retain Corey for a 2 year extension minimum. Corey's kids are developing into great players too and i'm sure Corey will want them to become future Panthers. The future is still bright for Panthers and Corey.
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Shaggy
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Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
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Post by Shaggy on Apr 8, 2016 22:41:36 GMT
This whole 'arrogant' tag that gets pinned on Neilson a lot... I'm not convinced that it's fully deserved. It seems to have been started years ago by various opposition fans (mainly from Coventry & Sheffield, as I recall) eager to jump on even the slightest little bit of offence that they can take from anything that is said by anyone in Nottingham... same old, same old. A little bit of arrogance is probably a good thing in a coach... or perhaps 'self-confidence' is more like it - which usually gets labelled as arrogance by anyone with an axe to grind. He's made a few barbed comments from time to time about opposition teams, players, coaches etc... yeah, so what? When their coach or PR bod does something like that, he's "bleeding <insert team colour here>" or "showing team spirit" or whatever. Yeah, OK, whatever... Thing is... if he even was 'arrogant' to start with, it seems to me that it's lessened somewhat in the past few years. Look at the number of times in interviews when things have gone wrong that he's said it's his responsibility, even his fault. Doesn't sound all that arrogant to me. If that's to be dismissed as PR spin... shouldn't the 'arrogant' comments be treated the same way? And then look at his body language, his speech etc in public. He hangs back a lot, tries to stay out of the limelight (a reverse Gary Moran?  )... his posture is very reserved. And on the few occasions that I've spoken to him (mainly down in the Olympic Rink when he's been watching juniors or the Lions) he's been very softly-spoken, very self-effacing... very reserved. That's just the side of him that we see... we have no idea what he's like behind the scenes, in the dressing room, in practice, in his private life. He could be quite different - who knows? He doesn't strike me as being all that forward and charismatic (certainly Rick Strachan has been much more forceful when I've heard him speak in public) but reserve, distance, call it what you will - that doesn't automatically translate as 'arrogance'. Being noisy and brash can be a good thing, or very much the opposite (the old saying "an empty pot makes the most noise"?)... same could be said of being quieter ("still waters run deep"?). |
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Post by texpef on Apr 9, 2016 8:47:58 GMT
Kinda get your point here shaggy and yes quite honestly what difference does it make whether opposition fans think CN is arrogant or not as long as he signs players who respect him and adopt the systems he is trying to introduce then that's what matters... Herein lies the problem are these the right systems?
Is it wise to keeps changing lines between and even in games, yes by all means keep the opposition guessing but it is proved throughout the world stable lines produce the best results. Coaching decisions, (in particular last season), why hamper your own team playing imports short? To me that was a rookie mistake and he isn't no rookie and it was clear that the brits where a step down on the previous season, less points from Farmer, abysmal seasons from Lacho and Lee imho but it was like he had to persist rather than limit their icetime and in the end he essentially released Swindlehurst (a player who I felt did nothing wrong). Is this arrogance that he knows best? I don't know but clearly as shows from the back end of last season 5 import D was required and imho the performances of for example Lee imporoved with less icetime..
Does CN learn from his mistakes? Well I for one am far from convinced, I guess another 2 years, time will tell...
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Post by Old Timer on Apr 9, 2016 9:55:12 GMT
Wuth regard to Corey's so called arrogance, all I can say is that he and Neil Black were sitting in Deliahs on a Sunday afternoon after a good performance against Braehead the previous night. I just walked up, congratulated him on the performance, and not wishing to intrude, turned to go.
Corey started to chat. 20 minutes later I had to make excuses and leave as would be late meeting the wife.
The subjects were mainly U.K. Hockey but quite wide ranging. And they both spent more time listening than talking.
The actions of an arrogant man, I think not
GM take note
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Post by Bagheera on Apr 9, 2016 13:12:58 GMT
For what it worth I don't think Corey is arrogant from what I know. Always seems pretty honest, level headed, humble and down to earth to me. Stuborn & Pig headed at times but I actually quite like Corey the person from the little I know of him in that way.
The person and his ability as a coach are 2 very different things when it comes to critisism I aimed at him from me.
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Post by dgardner on Apr 9, 2016 14:25:29 GMT
Kinda get your point here shaggy and yes quite honestly what difference does it make whether opposition fans think CN is arrogant or not as long as he signs players who respect him and adopt the systems he is trying to introduce then that's what matters... Herein lies the problem are these the right systems? Is it wise to keeps changing lines between and even in games, yes by all means keep the opposition guessing but it is proved throughout the world stable lines produce the best results. Coaching decisions, (in particular last season), why hamper your own team playing imports short? To me that was a rookie mistake and he isn't no rookie and it was clear that the brits where a step down on the previous season, less points from Farmer, abysmal seasons from Lacho and Lee imho but it was like he had to persist rather than limit their icetime and in the end he essentially released Swindlehurst (a player who I felt did nothing wrong). Is this arrogance that he knows best? I don't know but clearly as shows from the back end of last season 5 import D was required and imho the performances of for example Lee imporoved with less icetime.. Does CN learn from his mistakes? Well I for one am far from convinced, I guess another 2 years, time will tell... Regarding the brits i dont particularly agree as although both lee and lacho in particular have had fairly average seasons, i feel both are incredibly instrumental to our recent success, both i thought had outstanding performances over the playoffs weekend. Overall i do think that because the league is so much stronger even the so called weaker teams are still difficult to beat and score against meaning the brits including clarke are finding more difficult to score points than it was 3/4 years ago, but i personally rarely see a lack of effort from any brittish player. |
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Smudge
Jade Galbraith
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Post by Smudge on Apr 9, 2016 15:22:45 GMT
I for one would be very disappointed if Neilson wasn't coach next season. The lack of league titles is frustrating for sure but you can't argue with his record. There is the problem. It depends what you class as "his record ". If you are simply counting the number of trophies and in particular the % of trophies won against those available then absoloutly you cant argue. However if you want to focus on his league record(which many continue to state is the most important) then you can absoloutly argue with it. 1 league title and little over .500 hockey is not even close to good enough. Especially when you consider Panthers resource and the fact that some teams have been all but gimmies over this time. I've stated somewhere that I will back him if he comes back but I'd prefer a change. Only one league title is a little frustrating but when his record in the league since becoming coach is actually a win percentage of 63.38% (games coached 426, games won 270), suggesting it's little over .500 hockey is somewhat misleading. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 9, 2016 18:21:41 GMT
Wuth regard to Corey's so called arrogance, all I can say is that he and Neil Black were sitting in Deliahs on a Sunday afternoon after a good performance against Braehead the previous night. I just walked up, congratulated him on the performance, and not wishing to intrude, turned to go. Corey started to chat. 20 minutes later I had to make excuses and leave as would be late meeting the wife. The subjects were mainly U.K. Hockey but quite wide ranging. And they both spent more time listening than talking. The actions of an arrogant man, I think not GM take note Nice of him to talk. But of course,it may have had something to do with Mr Black sitting next to him ! |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 9, 2016 18:27:19 GMT
There is the problem. It depends what you class as "his record ". If you are simply counting the number of trophies and in particular the % of trophies won against those available then absoloutly you cant argue. However if you want to focus on his league record(which many continue to state is the most important) then you can absoloutly argue with it. 1 league title and little over .500 hockey is not even close to good enough. Especially when you consider Panthers resource and the fact that some teams have been all but gimmies over this time. I've stated somewhere that I will back him if he comes back but I'd prefer a change. Only one league title is a little frustrating but when his record in the league since becoming coach is actually a win percentage of 63.38% (games coached 426, games won 270), suggesting it's little over .500 hockey is somewhat misleading. It's a decent win percentage. But when you consider that up until this last season you have usually needed well over 70% to win the EIHL title it's not good enough ! |
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Post by pantherdman on Apr 10, 2016 8:08:38 GMT
I wish he was more arrogant.
In fact I don't think he's arrogant at all, he's quite humble in fact.
An arrogant person wouldn't take not competing in the league so lightly.
Head in cloud cuckoo land or brain washed by gm's bs.
If he was arrogant he would have left years ago.
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)... his posture is very reserved. And on the few occasions that I've spoken to him (mainly down in the Olympic Rink when he's been watching juniors or the Lions) he's been very softly-spoken, very self-effacing... very reserved.