GM's Future?

[Shorty]

I'm sure a couple of sessions with Relate would sort out Iginla and GM

[iginla]

Apr 8, 2016 7:10:28 GMT Mark Mac said:

Apr 7, 2016 22:10:46 GMT iginla said:

Blimey....and you reckon i went over the top ! Lol

Nothing of the sort.
I was merely giving my input and opinion on what was quite a good thread before you got involved.
Believe me,i could tell you some damn good stories on some of Morans shenanigans.

I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !!

To be fair to Shaggy, he does have a point. Whenever GM is mentioned in your posts it certainly does come across as pretty damn close to hatred. Or at least, if the attitude towards GM that you present is not hatred, then God help someone you actually do hate.

Whether you admit it or not, you are massively discounting that he has been a significant part in Panthers average attendances (and so money) increasing over the last few years (whilst at the same time Notts County attendances have decreased significantly and Notts Forest have stayed the same). A significant part of that is because the Panthers are marketed better. GM does that, no-one else. The other reason will be that the Panthers have generally been fairly successful over the last 5/6 years. Yes I know, only 1 league trophy and countless frustrating performances and downright screw-ups, but new fans don't notice that. New fans notice that we've won a trophy yet again (Challenge Cup repeated wins). Now winning trophies is down to the coaching team, but GM does have an impact. (You cannot say that GM has no impact when we win, but then blame him when we lose.)

My impression of GM is that he is a one-way communicator perfect for radio/print where there is no discussion, just announcement. That worked in the 90s and maybe first half of the 2000s. Unfortunately for him the world has changed so people expect communication to be two-way, to involve discussion. He expects to talk, he expects us to listen, that's where it ends. That is where he falls down. From everything I have seen I strongly get the impression he will not change.

This season the Panthers have made better use of social media, with that Checking It Out (unfortunately GM presents it and does so badly - again, one-way communicator) and highlights on YouTube, the use of Twitter and Facebook. I get the impression that is all down to this Eddy guy who seems to have taken over the game commentaries as well. If he sticks around then maybe the club will slowly improve its communication with us.

You're right that i don't like GM Mark,i don't hate him but first hand experience makes me dislike him and especially his attitude towards other people.
What makes me smile is people say I'm being harsh on him,then start off defending GM in their post,then carry on to say they don't like him either or criticise what or the way he does things.
Shaggy did it earlier and so have you.

He deserves some credit yes,but i just cannot see how GM has done anything out of the ordinary to increase crowds,or at least nothing that anybody else couldn't do.
Yes crowds have increased,but they have across the whole EIHL too but that is not just GM,there is a lot more media and social media exposure these days and that was not invented by GM.
The guys who should really be applauded for this are guys like Seth Bennett and Chris Ellis who have brought the EIHL more up to date and into a greater spotlight with the backing of the likes of Tony Smith,Neil Black and Todd Kelman etc.
These guys have brought hockey into the media and done far more in my opinion to sell tickets than GM ever did with his constant head battering website ticket selling or pasting of a few posters on the bins of Nottingham city centre.

GM is very very lucky,he's got great and loyal fans in Nottingham.

In the words of Mike Oconnor....."Jesus i wish we had your fans" !

[Mark Mac]

Apr 8, 2016 10:38:55 GMT iginla said:

Apr 8, 2016 7:10:28 GMT Mark Mac said:

To be fair to Shaggy, he does have a point. Whenever GM is mentioned in your posts it certainly does come across as pretty damn close to hatred. Or at least, if the attitude towards GM that you present is not hatred, then God help someone you actually do hate.

Whether you admit it or not, you are massively discounting that he has been a significant part in Panthers average attendances (and so money) increasing over the last few years (whilst at the same time Notts County attendances have decreased significantly and Notts Forest have stayed the same). A significant part of that is because the Panthers are marketed better. GM does that, no-one else. The other reason will be that the Panthers have generally been fairly successful over the last 5/6 years. Yes I know, only 1 league trophy and countless frustrating performances and downright screw-ups, but new fans don't notice that. New fans notice that we've won a trophy yet again (Challenge Cup repeated wins). Now winning trophies is down to the coaching team, but GM does have an impact. (You cannot say that GM has no impact when we win, but then blame him when we lose.)

My impression of GM is that he is a one-way communicator perfect for radio/print where there is no discussion, just announcement. That worked in the 90s and maybe first half of the 2000s. Unfortunately for him the world has changed so people expect communication to be two-way, to involve discussion. He expects to talk, he expects us to listen, that's where it ends. That is where he falls down. From everything I have seen I strongly get the impression he will not change.

This season the Panthers have made better use of social media, with that Checking It Out (unfortunately GM presents it and does so badly - again, one-way communicator) and highlights on YouTube, the use of Twitter and Facebook. I get the impression that is all down to this Eddy guy who seems to have taken over the game commentaries as well. If he sticks around then maybe the club will slowly improve its communication with us.

You're right that i don't like GM Mark,i don't hate him but first hand experience makes me dislike him and especially his attitude towards other people.
What makes me smile is people say I'm being harsh on him,then start off defending GM in their post,then carry on to say they don't like him either or criticise what or the way he does things.
Shaggy did it earlier and so have you.

He deserves some credit yes,but i just cannot see how GM has done anything out of the ordinary to increase crowds,or at least nothing that anybody else couldn't do.
Yes crowds have increased,but they have across the whole EIHL too but that is not just GM,there is a lot more media and social media exposure these days and that was not invented by GM.
The guys who should really be applauded for this are guys like Seth Bennett and Chris Ellis who have brought the EIHL more up to date and into a greater spotlight with the backing of the likes of Tony Smith,Neil Black and Todd Kelman etc.
These guys have brought hockey into the media and done far more in my opinion to sell tickets than GM ever did with his constant head battering website ticket selling or pasting of a few posters on the bins of Nottingham city centre.

GM is very very lucky,he's got great and loyal fans in Nottingham.

In the words of Mike Oconnor....."Jesus i wish we had your fans" !

There is a difference between defending him (i.e. saying he is a nice guy, which I have never done) and pointing out that actually he is not the incompetent buffoon (or worse) that is portrayed by a number of fans on this forum. Based on what a number of fans put across, attendances should be decreasing and the club should be in decline because he is such an awful man. Well the opposite is happening. Attendances are up and we won 2 trophies this season (before anyone says, I know we have a large number of awful games and there were some bad decisions made, but the coach has greater responsibility for team performance). And the club is financially stable. And the club doesn't deal with its dirty laundry in public like other clubs have done and fans on here have jumped on as an example of unprofessional behaviour. I have not once said that he has done anything beyond the ordinary. No-one has said he is really good at marketing. No-one has said that he comes up with amazing new ideas. No-one has said that he is an amazing GM, but at the same time I don't think he is quite as bad as is portrayed.

I entirely agree that as a whole the league is much more professional and markets itself so much better than it has done previously and that is down to the guys you highlighted and many others.

In response to your last 2 sentences, are you saying that GM would stop you going to games to support the team? (genuine question, not a jibe)

[iginla]

Apr 8, 2016 11:15:47 GMT Mark Mac said:

Apr 8, 2016 10:38:55 GMT iginla said:

You're right that i don't like GM Mark,i don't hate him but first hand experience makes me dislike him and especially his attitude towards other people.
What makes me smile is people say I'm being harsh on him,then start off defending GM in their post,then carry on to say they don't like him either or criticise what or the way he does things.
Shaggy did it earlier and so have you.

He deserves some credit yes,but i just cannot see how GM has done anything out of the ordinary to increase crowds,or at least nothing that anybody else couldn't do.
Yes crowds have increased,but they have across the whole EIHL too but that is not just GM,there is a lot more media and social media exposure these days and that was not invented by GM.
The guys who should really be applauded for this are guys like Seth Bennett and Chris Ellis who have brought the EIHL more up to date and into a greater spotlight with the backing of the likes of Tony Smith,Neil Black and Todd Kelman etc.
These guys have brought hockey into the media and done far more in my opinion to sell tickets than GM ever did with his constant head battering website ticket selling or pasting of a few posters on the bins of Nottingham city centre.

GM is very very lucky,he's got great and loyal fans in Nottingham.

In the words of Mike Oconnor....."Jesus i wish we had your fans" !

There is a difference between defending him (i.e. saying he is a nice guy, which I have never done) and pointing out that actually he is not the incompetent buffoon (or worse) that is portrayed by a number of fans on this forum. Based on what a number of fans put across, attendances should be decreasing and the club should be in decline because he is such an awful man. Well the opposite is happening. Attendances are up and we won 2 trophies this season (before anyone says, I know we have a large number of awful games and there were some bad decisions made, but the coach has greater responsibility for team performance). And the club is financially stable. And the club doesn't deal with its dirty laundry in public like other clubs have done and fans on here have jumped on as an example of unprofessional behaviour. I have not once said that he has done anything beyond the ordinary. No-one has said he is really good at marketing. No-one has said that he comes up with amazing new ideas. No-one has said that he is an amazing GM, but at the same time I don't think he is quite as bad as is portrayed.

I entirely agree that as a whole the league is much more professional and markets itself so much better than it has done previously and that is down to the guys you highlighted and many others.

In response to your last 2 sentences, are you saying that GM would stop you going to games to support the team? (genuine question, not a jibe)

No Mark,i wouldn't stop going to games because of GM.......but after about five years worth of fairly costly sponsorship,i got totally fed up of his attitude and being taken for granted and stopped sponsoring them purely because of GM !

[The Flying Shirt]

It's very easy to get caught up in character assassinations online with someone like GM (he loves it and is a very confrontational person) but to even think he is some sort of a marketing genius is naive in the extreme. He is a man of his time without a doubt but that time past a long while ago. Running a blog (which the Panthers site is) with "good tickets still available" made clear at every point isn't marketing and giving away 100's of free seats to boost gate numbers isn't marketing either. The only marketing I ever see is already preaching to the converted and I see him more of a sponsorship / money in type of guy than putting bums on seats anyway. He has good relationships with *some* sponsors (and yes I do know what some of the big sponsors are paying and I am a former sponsor myself) and I see this as his role but trying to run that along side a 2016 arena filling role isn't possible no matter who you are. Brit ice hockey has been rubbish at a lot of things from getting people to watch to getting kids on the ice to develop and the reason for this is because it's too insular. It always has and always will be.

[Dan]

Apr 7, 2016 20:35:05 GMT iginla said:

So let me get this right.
GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break !

GM does exactly the same things as every other club (except Edinburgh presumably).
We have a website,Twitter,Facebook,school visits,newspaper coverage,a little tv coverage,radio coverage,posters around the city and err,that's about it or am I missing something.
Now what exactly is magic about any of that ?
There is absolutely nothing at all there that any other club couldn't do.

The reason Panthers have such good ticket sales is,the location of the arena,the fact Nottingham is a hockey town because Panthers have been around so long and a general core of very loyal fans.

As regards Mr Kelman.
Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena.

So...let me get this right.

None of the credit for Panthers' success goes to Gary Moran, but all of Cardiff's success is down to Kelman? Come on, at least try to be even with this.

There's no 'magical secret touch' to it, it's just reasonable marketing and solid business management over a long period. Why on Earth are you so fixed on this opinion that it's almost happened by accident? We've had lots of coaches, Black is a little more hands-off than most and the only real constant over the period is GM. If you honestly think our entire business model is 'a little TV coverage' then you're clearly blinkered on the subject matter beyond all redemption. If a nice arena, good results and stable existence is enough to sell it on it's own, why don't Sheffield (more successful, bigger city, in arena for longer) sell more than us? Maybe there's more to it than your basic ABC level of analysis...?

I'm not discrediting Kelman at all, but you seem to be tooting his horn for the reasons that you dismiss with Moran. Surely they're legit points for both or for neither? It makes me feel filthy to defend GM, but as a businessman he's made the Panthers a success. Saying this would have happened anyway is incredibly churlish.

Apr 7, 2016 16:52:13 GMT shmyrohdear said:

Not just NHL in pretty much all proffess leagues that hire GM's. He's not doing a GM's job, he's been given a title and he makes a mockery out of it.

Yes, and most other leagues prioritise the play-offs more than us too - we do things slightly differently over here. We have a different set-up far more like football, it's hardly something to beat him with is it? No GM in the country operates like an NHL GM. Over here, it's a given that the coach signs the players and the GM manages the finances and day-to-day running. Hell, I remember GM getting dogs abuse for signing Craighead once.

Apr 7, 2016 22:10:46 GMT iginla said:

I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !!

What does his moderator status have to do with anything? He hasn't broken any rules and he (as most of the mods have) has been very lenient with you over the months. Don't make it personal.

[Mark Mac]

Apr 8, 2016 13:08:26 GMT The Flying Shirt said:

It's very easy to get caught up in character assassinations online with someone like GM (he loves it and is a very confrontational person) but to even think he is some sort of a marketing genius is naive in the extreme. He is a man of his time without a doubt but that time past a long while ago.

Where has anyone said he is a marketing genius? The only thing that has been said is that he is not as incompetent as is portrayed. Not once has he been credited with being uniquely creative with marketing.

Apr 8, 2016 13:08:26 GMT The Flying Shirt said:

He is a man of his time without a doubt but that time past a long while ago.

I entirely agree and, indeed, I made the same point earlier.

[iginla]

Apr 8, 2016 15:51:36 GMT Dan said:

Apr 7, 2016 20:35:05 GMT iginla said:

So let me get this right.
GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break !

GM does exactly the same things as every other club (except Edinburgh presumably).
We have a website,Twitter,Facebook,school visits,newspaper coverage,a little tv coverage,radio coverage,posters around the city and err,that's about it or am I missing something.
Now what exactly is magic about any of that ?
There is absolutely nothing at all there that any other club couldn't do.

The reason Panthers have such good ticket sales is,the location of the arena,the fact Nottingham is a hockey town because Panthers have been around so long and a general core of very loyal fans.

As regards Mr Kelman.
Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena.

So...let me get this right.

None of the credit for Panthers' success goes to Gary Moran, but all of Cardiff's success is down to Kelman? Come on, at least try to be even with this.

There's no 'magical secret touch' to it, it's just reasonable marketing and solid business management over a long period. Why on Earth are you so fixed on this opinion that it's almost happened by accident? We've had lots of coaches, Black is a little more hands-off than most and the only real constant over the period is GM. If you honestly think our entire business model is 'a little TV coverage' then you're clearly blinkered on the subject matter beyond all redemption. If a nice arena, good results and stable existence is enough to sell it on it's own, why don't Sheffield (more successful, bigger city, in arena for longer) sell more than us? Maybe there's more to it than your basic ABC level of analysis...?

I'm not discrediting Kelman at all, but you seem to be tooting his horn for the reasons that you dismiss with Moran. Surely they're legit points for both or for neither? It makes me feel filthy to defend GM, but as a businessman he's made the Panthers a success. Saying this would have happened anyway is incredibly churlish.

Apr 7, 2016 16:52:13 GMT shmyrohdear said:

Not just NHL in pretty much all proffess leagues that hire GM's. He's not doing a GM's job, he's been given a title and he makes a mockery out of it.

Yes, and most other leagues prioritise the play-offs more than us too - we do things slightly differently over here. We have a different set-up far more like football, it's hardly something to beat him with is it? No GM in the country operates like an NHL GM. Over here, it's a given that the coach signs the players and the GM manages the finances and day-to-day running. Hell, I remember GM getting dogs abuse for signing Craighead once.

Apr 7, 2016 22:10:46 GMT iginla said:

I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !!

What does his moderator status have to do with anything? He hasn't broken any rules and he (as most of the mods have) has been very lenient with you over the months. Don't make it personal.

In relation to GM Dan,I actually used the words "he deserves some credit yes",but the point I'm making is that Nottingham is a very easy sell so quite how some people seem to think this is all down to GM I don't know.
Basically,anybody with even a modest amount of business sense could have increased Panthers crowds.

As for the Shaggy bit.
Go back and check his post,he accuses me of being way over the top etc in my criticism of Moran,then himself tries to attack me even more aggressively,whilst admitting he doesn't like Moran either !
He's supposed to be a moderator,not stir stuff up with arsy posts !

[Dan]

I'm getting a sense of 'pot, kettle, black' with this argument Iginla. You reap what you sow.

[Caesar]

Ive always wondered, being as its generally accepted on here that folks in the Panthers office read this forum,with regard to the stuff that you post Iginla. Do they know your real identity and have they challenged you about it? From the things you know about the goings on, you must be in a very small group of people that know these things

[thebestpanthers]

Apr 11, 2016 17:48:44 GMT Caesar said:

Ive always wondered, being as its generally accepted on here that folks in the Panthers office read this forum,with regard to the stuff that you post Iginla. Do they know your real identity and have they challenged you about it? From the things you know about the goings on, you must be in a very small group of people that know these things

I thought it had been outed last season that Iginia is really Gary Moran's love child - just hope I haven't broken any injunctions by revealing this

[shmyrohdear]

Apr 8, 2016 15:51:36 GMT Dan said:

Apr 7, 2016 20:35:05 GMT iginla said:

So let me get this right.
GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break !

GM does exactly the same things as every other club (except Edinburgh presumably).
We have a website,Twitter,Facebook,school visits,newspaper coverage,a little tv coverage,radio coverage,posters around the city and err,that's about it or am I missing something.
Now what exactly is magic about any of that ?
There is absolutely nothing at all there that any other club couldn't do.

The reason Panthers have such good ticket sales is,the location of the arena,the fact Nottingham is a hockey town because Panthers have been around so long and a general core of very loyal fans.

As regards Mr Kelman.
Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena.

So...let me get this right.

None of the credit for Panthers' success goes to Gary Moran, but all of Cardiff's success is down to Kelman? Come on, at least try to be even with this.

There's no 'magical secret touch' to it, it's just reasonable marketing and solid business management over a long period. Why on Earth are you so fixed on this opinion that it's almost happened by accident? We've had lots of coaches, Black is a little more hands-off than most and the only real constant over the period is GM. If you honestly think our entire business model is 'a little TV coverage' then you're clearly blinkered on the subject matter beyond all redemption. If a nice arena, good results and stable existence is enough to sell it on it's own, why don't Sheffield (more successful, bigger city, in arena for longer) sell more than us? Maybe there's more to it than your basic ABC level of analysis...?

I'm not discrediting Kelman at all, but you seem to be tooting his horn for the reasons that you dismiss with Moran. Surely they're legit points for both or for neither? It makes me feel filthy to defend GM, but as a businessman he's made the Panthers a success. Saying this would have happened anyway is incredibly churlish.

Apr 7, 2016 16:52:13 GMT shmyrohdear said:

Not just NHL in pretty much all proffess leagues that hire GM's. He's not doing a GM's job, he's been given a title and he makes a mockery out of it.

Yes, and most other leagues prioritise the play-offs more than us too - we do things slightly differently over here. We have a different set-up far more like football, it's hardly something to beat him with is it? No GM in the country operates like an NHL GM. Over here, it's a given that the coach signs the players and the GM manages the finances and day-to-day running. Hell, I remember GM getting dogs abuse for signing Craighead once.

Apr 7, 2016 22:10:46 GMT iginla said:

I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !!

What does his moderator status have to do with anything? He hasn't broken any rules and he (as most of the mods have) has been very lenient with you over the months. Don't make it personal.

It doesn't matter what we prioritise or what "we do differently" that does not change the fact he does not do what a GM does in hockey. You don't see carpenters serving fish and chips on site because 'that's what they do' somewhere else. He doesn't do a GM's job therefore should not be sat under the title of a GM, maybe part of the problem with this league (and why we won't get taken seriously going forward) is that we don't follow the example set by bigger leagues in terms of set up front to back, in house and on the ice.

There's so much talk of respective owners not seeing eye to eye and is hindering the league's progress, players have been known to say they dislike how the league is set up (Kolnik being one and being a former high profile player in Europe and having a good stint in the NHL can't leave a good impression on those hearing of it)

In terms of improving the standard of the EIHL we should be looking elsewhere and following the examples set. In terms of improving the standards set here we should be leading by example by executing at a professional standard, the bums are on seats and they have been for years now, i appreciate what Moran has done but the stale amateurish PR work has to go.

[Mozzy]

Apr 7, 2016 21:41:01 GMT Shaggy said:

Apr 7, 2016 20:35:05 GMT iginla said:

So let me get this right.
GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break !

And yet again you exaggerate wildly. Pointing out that the man isn't totally irrelevant to the Panthers' success is a far cry from claiming that he has "some magical secret touch" or something.

This is the problem here... blind hatred. You appear to be completely unwilling to accept - or completely incapable of doing so - anything other than total and bitter opposition to everything that GM is or does... and you twist the words of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Are you sure that you aren't a disciple of Dave Simms? The parallels are quite frightening.

From my limited exposure to the man, I actually don't like Gary Moran very much - granted, I haven't spoken with him in years and I very much doubt he'd remember... or care if he did. Fair enough, no reason why he should. From what I know plus that which I have heard from people I trust, there are some major flaws in the way he does things... it strikes me that there is a lot of room for improvement in the way that the Panthers are run. But this total hatred of the man... this isn't the way to improve matters. It's just an excuse to dish out loads of bile... as if that's some kind of entertainment. And if the target wasn't GM it would just be somebody else. Hardly constructive, any of it.

Bit late into the game with this one but hey ho. Shaggy, whilst I get your general opinion of Iginla's posts towards GM I'm struggling to see how these posts are any different to the conversations we have had in the past regarding Mr Simms. They may not have been on here but you have had a dig at Iginla for doing exactly what you do whenever I've brought up Dave Simms in the past. 

Just as you are accusing Inginla of blind hatred, don't you have the same issue when we discuss Simms, even if actually he's done something right for once??

[Ghost]

Well this thread has gone to pot!

[kievthegreat]

Apr 12, 2016 16:52:14 GMT Ghost said:

Well this thread has gone to pot!

[tim27]

Apr 8, 2016 8:52:26 GMT Mark Mac said:

As someone (I believe mattscold) had posted but seems to have disappeared, regular wins in a good arena can't be the reason else Sheffield's attendance would have consistently increased over the same time. But even if regular wins were the reason, how do people hear about the success? They hear through marketing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he is a marketing genius at all, but he does deserve some credit.

As for direct marketing, wherever I've lived in Nottingham (Mapperley, Beeston, West Bridgford) I have received the fixtures list at the start of each season for a few years. It isn't all that effective a marketing strategy though. If I didn't already support the Panthers, receiving something through my letterbox has no impact on me. I've never received anything from Nottingham Forest, Notts County or Nottingham Rugby. Maybe sports teams don't think it's all that effective (I have no idea).

Positioning of Sheffield Arena does not help Sheffield though.

Moran is very old fashioned in everything he does.

If we had a proper marketing guy and a proper GM we would be winning the league more or at least be making a challenge for it and the arena will be selling out more often than not. I cant remember what our average attendance is this year but I noticed more and more in the last couple of year that free tickets have been hand out and i dont mean just a handful I mean a lot.

What ever way you look at it the Nottingham Arena is the easiest sell in the league and that is not because of anything Gary Moran has done it is just the location and facilities on offer. put any reasonably competitive team in there and you will sell tickets.

[Dan]

Apr 12, 2016 5:27:10 GMT shmyrohdear said:

It doesn't matter what we prioritise or what "we do differently" that does not change the fact he does not do what a GM does in hockey. You don't see carpenters serving fish and chips on site because 'that's what they do' somewhere else. He doesn't do a GM's job therefore should not be sat under the title of a GM, maybe part of the problem with this league (and why we won't get taken seriously going forward) is that we don't follow the example set by bigger leagues in terms of set up front to back, in house and on the ice.

There's so much talk of respective owners not seeing eye to eye and is hindering the league's progress, players have been known to say they dislike how the league is set up (Kolnik being one and being a former high profile player in Europe and having a good stint in the NHL can't leave a good impression on those hearing of it)

In terms of improving the standard of the EIHL we should be looking elsewhere and following the examples set. In terms of improving the standards set here we should be leading by example by executing at a professional standard, the bums are on seats and they have been for years now, i appreciate what Moran has done but the stale amateurish PR work has to go.

...ok? So he's got the wrong job title? Does that really matter? Would anything be different if he was a Chairman instead? The only real difference in their roles are that the GM in the NHL hires players as opposed to the coach. Some of the off-ice responsibilities are delegated to other staff but they're in a multi-billion dollar industry. We can't quite afford the same luxuries.

I just cannot understand the opinion that the Panthers aren't run professionally. In fact, we're ran pretty much like an NHL club. I don't know how close you are with the big league, but watch some of the TV broadcasts. Every single one is game action, buy tickets, game, tickets, game, executive box tickets, car adverts, game, tickets. Adverts everywhere and prices through the roof. The main broadcasts sound exactly like a mouthpiece for the club (rarely negative, sell everything you can) and doesn't that sound familiar?

If anything, aside from minor quibbles like job titles we're ran almost exactly like an NHL club. The game just doesn't exactly have the infrastructure in this country to develop much further.

[cjmatt42]

I think it's this time of year you see one of the big shortfalls of how our club is run. The season ends and basically the website and everything goes into shutdown for 2 weeks. Sheffield's Twitter hasn't stopped with NHL Bracket posts, Team GB updates, getting players signed and thanking those that won't be returning. Keep the fans engaged it's very simple.

Personally I think it's time for change, the methods are outdated and personally I don't see our attendances as being that fantastic. An arena as modern as ours situated where it is in a city that's had a hockey History of 70 plus years and probably 4/5 generations of supporter in my opinion should be close to selling out most weeks. Steelers on the other have a far inferior building in terms of facilities and feel inside along with a poor location and 20 odd years history. Average Steelers attendance at the Motorpoint this year 5,751 against our average of 5,727. Says everything to me. We've been second best on the ice for a long time and now we are second best off it.

[pantherdman]

IMO gm is a perfect reflection of the club.
He does just enough to get through the season.
Doesn't go the extra mile isn't pushing boundaries.
Just exactly the same season after season.

[spik]

Apr 14, 2016 11:33:47 GMT pantherdman said:

IMO gm is a perfect reflection of the club.
He does just enough to get through the season.
Doesn't go the extra mile isn't pushing boundaries.
Just exactly the same season after season.

So, in line with this it(as an example)it will be the same match programme next season. Same content of birthday pics, players question/answer sessions, pics at Xmas with red hats on and what peeps want for a new year....Im in Phillpines right now but won't be sending in a pic of me and a Panthers flag or asking for my birthday pic with my fav player cos it gets boring.
There obviously are many other things that cite us as 'same old' ......reason why new brings fresh ideas.

[Deleted]

Sorry, just don't like the guy - from personal experience. In my option, despite what says, he has no respect for the fans at all.

[iginla]

Apr 14, 2016 17:22:15 GMT @silversenior said:

Sorry, just don't like the guy - from personal experience. In my option, despite what says, he has no respect for the fans at all.

There are a lot of people citing personal experiences for not liking GM.

If i had a manager in my company who received so many constant negative responses,i would be asking some serious questions !

[shinobi]

Never had an issue when I've spoken with him personally; he was great when I was bidding on, and won, the Wiikman game worn in the recent auction. Each to their own I guess...

[Ghost]

Apr 21, 2016 19:41:24 GMT shinobi said:

Never had an issue when I've spoken with him personally; he was great when I was bidding on, and won, the Wiikman game worn in the recent auction. Each to their own I guess...

I wonder if that may have had something to do with you handing him a large some of money?

[shinobi]

I've dealt with him several times before that auction, so it's got sweet FA to do with money... You mad about the jersey?