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Post by fishman on Apr 5, 2016 8:22:47 GMT
His job is to sell tickets? Last i checked a GM should be signing players and scouting and needs to understand the full dynamic of a well functioning team. A GM is not there for PR or to sell tickets. finally someone that gets it.. GM is not a GM he just a media/find ways to sell tickets guy.. CN would be a good GM or RS If Moran is not a proper GM, who the hell runs Panthers? ?
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EMB
Randall Weber
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Post by EMB on Apr 5, 2016 8:30:40 GMT
GM's not bothered about sponsors he quotes " for every one that drops out there are two waiting to take their place" NB knows how much GM is disliked but he just rolls his eyes, while ever GM is making them both money he's going nowhere, either that or NB is aware the Gary knows too much & can't risk it all coming out.
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Post by mattscold on Apr 5, 2016 9:19:22 GMT
I really hope GM retires this year to be honest. He wont be sacked, I think we all know this.
He has ran this club well, regardless of arrogance and abrasive personality. If he does step down, I hope we can all stop this petty name calling and actually wish him the best for the future.
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Post by Stargazer on Apr 5, 2016 9:37:11 GMT
finally someone that gets it.. GM is not a GM he just a media/find ways to sell tickets guy.. CN would be a good GM or RS If Moran is not a proper GM, who the hell runs Panthers? ? The 'Spokeswoman'
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 5, 2016 13:27:29 GMT
The GMs job is a different entity here to say the NHL In the NHL the GM signs the players and says to the coach that's what you got,make it work.
Here the coach signs the players with input from GM......and then they go cap in hand to Mr Black and say "we want this guy and this is the cost". Mr Black then either approves it,or if as is usual he's in a particularly penny pinching mood that day he says "I'm not paying that much for him"........so the player ends up in either Sheffield,Cardiff or Belfast !
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Post by Stargazer on Apr 5, 2016 14:20:47 GMT
The GMs job is a different entity here to say the NHL In the NHL the GM signs the players and says to the coach that's what you got,make it work. Here the coach signs the players with input from GM......and then they go cap in hand to Mr Black and say "we want this guy and this is the cost". Mr Black then either approves it,or if as is usual he's in a particularly penny pinching mood that day he says "I'm not paying that much for him"........so the player ends up in either Sheffield,Cardiff or Belfast ! ................... Or Edinburgh in the case of Ryan Hayes!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 5, 2016 15:58:42 GMT
The GMs job is a different entity here to say the NHL In the NHL the GM signs the players and says to the coach that's what you got,make it work. Here the coach signs the players with input from GM......and then they go cap in hand to Mr Black and say "we want this guy and this is the cost". Mr Black then either approves it,or if as is usual he's in a particularly penny pinching mood that day he says "I'm not paying that much for him"........so the player ends up in either Sheffield,Cardiff or Belfast ! ................... Or Edinburgh in the case of Ryan Hayes! Or even Braehead in the case of Leigh Salters......but that's another twist on keeping it competitive !!!!
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Post by tootootrain on Apr 5, 2016 20:22:26 GMT
................... Or Edinburgh in the case of Ryan Hayes! Possible bad example as it appears that was a bullet dodged.
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Kirk55
Pat Casey
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Post by Kirk55 on Apr 6, 2016 12:17:21 GMT
Gary has never been the reason a player has left the club or the reason for a player not coming to the club in the first place That we know of...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 6, 2016 15:17:29 GMT
Give over Dan. With all the social media etc available these days it's easier than ever to sell tickets,especially to our fan base. What has GM actually done to promote the club that pretty much anybody with a reasonable business acumen couldn't have done. I tell you what,put a likeable chap like Kelman in Pantherland and the NIC would be close to or selling out every game. Now come on Iginla, you're talking absolute rubbish and you know it! Gary is the heart and soul of this club and without him we would have gone the same way as hull and Newcastle, and you know it! Never has the club lost a sponsor because of Gary. Never has anyone lost faith in the club because of Gary. Gary is the sole reason we have all the sponsors we do. Gary has never been the reason a player has left the club or the reason for a player not coming to the club in the first place. I don't think some people realise that this post from Keefe is filled with sarcasm ! Lol
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Apr 7, 2016 15:50:01 GMT
That's harsh. You have to ask yourself how tickets now sell themselves. They certainly didn't 5/10 years ago so somebody has done something right. Give over Dan. With all the social media etc available these days it's easier than ever to sell tickets,especially to our fan base. What has GM actually done to promote the club that pretty much anybody with a reasonable business acumen couldn't have done. I tell you what,put a likeable chap like Kelman in Pantherland and the NIC would be close to or selling out every game. With social media the tickets now sell themselves ... but only in Nottingham. If it's so easy, why doesn't every team get our sales figures? Much as you (clearly) don't like the man, his achievements on a business sense with the Panthers are impressive. We're the most viable and profitable club in UK hockey history and you think the GM of this company has had no say in this?! Kelman seems to get a lot of praise because he does the odd Q&A. Be careful what you wish for.
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Apr 7, 2016 15:53:01 GMT
And let's not forget that it's down to Gary's amazing marketing skills that we have posters on the sides of bins and banners on the side of a flower stall! You tell me another person that could pull of a top end marketing job like that! Am I the only one who can separate GM the GM and GM the person? The bitterness towards him is pretty galling, as a professional he's done a pretty good job over the years. Admittedly he's made enemies, but it's not his job to make friends. His job is to sell tickets? Last i checked a GM should be signing players and scouting and needs to understand the full dynamic of a well functioning team. A GM is not there for PR or to sell tickets. We're not in the US here. A GM here is different to an NHL GM.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Apr 7, 2016 16:52:13 GMT
And let's not forget that it's down to Gary's amazing marketing skills that we have posters on the sides of bins and banners on the side of a flower stall! You tell me another person that could pull of a top end marketing job like that! Am I the only one who can separate GM the GM and GM the person? The bitterness towards him is pretty galling, as a professional he's done a pretty good job over the years. Admittedly he's made enemies, but it's not his job to make friends. His job is to sell tickets? Last i checked a GM should be signing players and scouting and needs to understand the full dynamic of a well functioning team. A GM is not there for PR or to sell tickets. We're not in the US here. A GM here is different to an NHL GM. Not just NHL in pretty much all proffess leagues that hire GM's. He's not doing a GM's job, he's been given a title and he makes a mockery out of it.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Apr 7, 2016 19:26:44 GMT
Give over Dan. With all the social media etc available these days it's easier than ever to sell tickets,especially to our fan base. What has GM actually done to promote the club that pretty much anybody with a reasonable business acumen couldn't have done. I tell you what,put a likeable chap like Kelman in Pantherland and the NIC would be close to or selling out every game. With social media the tickets now sell themselves ... but only in Nottingham. If it's so easy, why doesn't every team get our sales figures? Much as you (clearly) don't like the man, his achievements on a business sense with the Panthers are impressive. We're the most viable and profitable club in UK hockey history and you think the GM of this company has had no say in this?! Kelman seems to get a lot of praise because he does the odd Q&A. Be careful what you wish for. Exactly. For a start, just because Kelman appears to be nice on the outside, it doesn't mean he isn't something unlikeable on the inside - hell, even DS The BS is apparently nice every now and then, and we all know what a POS he is most of the time. GM wears his unlikeable on the outside... I'm still not sure if that's better or worse - I'm not keen on the guy either. The problem is, the GM-haters are monomaniacal on the subject... everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, that GM does is automatically interpreted in the worst possible light - every single time. Come on... nobody is that bad all of the time... not without wrecking everything, and that obviously hasn't happened. But hey, it's easier to hate than to think. And as Dan says... if it was really so easy to sell tickets, how come every other team isn't doing better than us? After all, there is so much criticism (a fair bit if it deserved IMO) of the Panthers' marketing, media presence etc. If other teams are better at this than us... how come they haven't overtaken us in attendance figures? Seems to me that GM must be doing at least a few things right...
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2016 20:35:05 GMT
With social media the tickets now sell themselves ... but only in Nottingham. If it's so easy, why doesn't every team get our sales figures? Much as you (clearly) don't like the man, his achievements on a business sense with the Panthers are impressive. We're the most viable and profitable club in UK hockey history and you think the GM of this company has had no say in this?! Kelman seems to get a lot of praise because he does the odd Q&A. Be careful what you wish for. Exactly. For a start, just because Kelman appears to be nice on the outside, it doesn't mean he isn't something unlikeable on the inside - hell, even DS The BS is apparently nice every now and then, and we all know what a POS he is most of the time. GM wears his unlikeable on the outside... I'm still not sure if that's better or worse - I'm not keen on the guy either. The problem is, the GM-haters are monomaniacal on the subject... everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, that GM does is automatically interpreted in the worst possible light - every single time. Come on... nobody is that bad all of the time... not without wrecking everything, and that obviously hasn't happened. But hey, it's easier to hate than to think. And as Dan says... if it was really so easy to sell tickets, how come every other team isn't doing better than us? After all, there is so much criticism (a fair bit if it deserved IMO) of the Panthers' marketing, media presence etc. If other teams are better at this than us... how come they haven't overtaken us in attendance figures? Seems to me that GM must be doing at least a few things right... So let me get this right. GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break ! GM does exactly the same things as every other club (except Edinburgh presumably). We have a website,Twitter,Facebook,school visits,newspaper coverage,a little tv coverage,radio coverage,posters around the city and err,that's about it or am I missing something. Now what exactly is magic about any of that ? There is absolutely nothing at all there that any other club couldn't do. The reason Panthers have such good ticket sales is,the location of the arena,the fact Nottingham is a hockey town because Panthers have been around so long and a general core of very loyal fans. As regards Mr Kelman. Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena.
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Post by tootootrain on Apr 7, 2016 20:39:20 GMT
Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena. As I'm sure you are aware, there was a little more to it than 'Kelman = increased crowds'. Devils used to get pretty decent crowds a few years back, before the 'unpleasantness'.
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Post by cooperphil156 on Apr 7, 2016 20:41:37 GMT
You may remember the pre season matches against Asiago. It was promoted with the usual hype, but Panthers in the end had about half of the imports and it wound up as much less than was expected. I put a letter in to Panthers with adverse comments, regarding the fact that we took the ice with a team which was no where near what supporters had been led to believe. I received a reply to ring as Gary would like to talk to me. What I had was a blast in the ear. It started with something like "You are having a go at us" and he then carried on with his blast. He did to be fair give reasonable explanations for some absences - due to the notorious British permit procedure, but when I tried to get a word in, all I got was "You've had your say, now its my turn". Basically he viewed it as the opportunity to settle scores - he carried on and on. He did have some valid points, but failed to account for the fact that the matches had been falsely promoted. As a PR exercise his approach was totally antagonistic and quite frankly not very smart. He to me basically seems to be in a similar category to DS - Egocentric and perhaps not the brightest. One ex Panthers player said to me - "Well he is really an ex DJ".
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BigLad
David Clarke
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Post by BigLad on Apr 7, 2016 20:52:29 GMT
Pre-season friendlies should never be full price.
Regardless of which made-up trophy is on offer.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2016 20:54:06 GMT
Had you not noticed he has taken the Devils from crowds that had dropped to little over 1000 to regular sell outs in both the BBT and the new Arena. As I'm sure you are aware, there was a little more to it than 'Kelman = increased crowds'. Devils used to get pretty decent crowds a few years back, before the 'unpleasantness'. Indeed Tootootrain,i agree there were problems in Cardiff. There is now also a nice shiny new arena which has walloped almost an extra 1000 on their crowds.....an arena rather like ours,which some people seem to be forgetting helped GM sell his tickets. Nottingham is an easy sell. I bet it wouldn't be so easy though if we played in a tatty old barn on the outskirts of town.
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Post by PantherB on Apr 7, 2016 20:59:53 GMT
He's very pro-Panthers, as you'd expect but very very rarely will say anything negative about the team and i think it's the negativity from fans which gets to him quite easily. If you talk about Panthers in a high manner, nothing but good things etc.. He'll get on with you well, but if you mention any negativity on the slightest level, he won't give you the time of day.
I've met him and spoken to him a few times, he's definitely a talker rather than a listener, that's for sure! But he does have an incredibly strong passion for the team and likes to give things his personal touch.
When it comes to ticket sales and PR i think someone else, someone younger and more social media aware should handle that, if we want to move forward then they need to keep up with the times and try new things. GM should does his behind the scenes job but leave it at that, he's done a lot for the club, no doubt but it's time for change, and has been for some time.
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Shaggy
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Post by Shaggy on Apr 7, 2016 21:41:01 GMT
Exactly. For a start, just because Kelman appears to be nice on the outside, it doesn't mean he isn't something unlikeable on the inside - hell, even DS The BS is apparently nice every now and then, and we all know what a POS he is most of the time. GM wears his unlikeable on the outside... I'm still not sure if that's better or worse - I'm not keen on the guy either. The problem is, the GM-haters are monomaniacal on the subject... everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, that GM does is automatically interpreted in the worst possible light - every single time. Come on... nobody is that bad all of the time... not without wrecking everything, and that obviously hasn't happened. But hey, it's easier to hate than to think. And as Dan says... if it was really so easy to sell tickets, how come every other team isn't doing better than us? After all, there is so much criticism (a fair bit if it deserved IMO) of the Panthers' marketing, media presence etc. If other teams are better at this than us... how come they haven't overtaken us in attendance figures? Seems to me that GM must be doing at least a few things right... So let me get this right. GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break ! And yet again you exaggerate wildly. Pointing out that the man isn't totally irrelevant to the Panthers' success is a far cry from claiming that he has "some magical secret touch" or something. This is the problem here... blind hatred. You appear to be completely unwilling to accept - or completely incapable of doing so - anything other than total and bitter opposition to everything that GM is or does... and you twist the words of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Are you sure that you aren't a disciple of Dave Simms? The parallels are quite frightening. From my limited exposure to the man, I actually don't like Gary Moran very much - granted, I haven't spoken with him in years and I very much doubt he'd remember... or care if he did. Fair enough, no reason why he should. From what I know plus that which I have heard from people I trust, there are some major flaws in the way he does things... it strikes me that there is a lot of room for improvement in the way that the Panthers are run. But this total hatred of the man... this isn't the way to improve matters. It's just an excuse to dish out loads of bile... as if that's some kind of entertainment. And if the target wasn't GM it would just be somebody else. Hardly constructive, any of it.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 7, 2016 22:10:46 GMT
So let me get this right. GM has got some magical secret touch that empowers people to buy tickets,a touch and a knack that nobody else at any other team has eh.....give me a break ! And yet again you exaggerate wildly. Pointing out that the man isn't totally irrelevant to the Panthers' success is a far cry from claiming that he has "some magical secret touch" or something. This is the problem here... blind hatred. You appear to be completely unwilling to accept - or completely incapable of doing so - anything other than total and bitter opposition to everything that GM is or does... and you twist the words of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Are you sure that you aren't a disciple of Dave Simms? The parallels are quite frightening. From my limited exposure to the man, I actually don't like Gary Moran very much - granted, I haven't spoken with him in years and I very much doubt he'd remember... or care if he did. Fair enough, no reason why he should. From what I know plus that which I have heard from people I trust, there are some major flaws in the way he does things... it strikes me that there is a lot of room for improvement in the way that the Panthers are run. But this total hatred of the man... this isn't the way to improve matters. It's just an excuse to dish out loads of bile... as if that's some kind of entertainment. And if the target wasn't GM it would just be somebody else. Hardly constructive, any of it. Blimey....and you reckon i went over the top ! Lol Nothing of the sort. I was merely giving my input and opinion on what was quite a good thread before you got involved. Believe me,i could tell you some damn good stories on some of Morans shenanigans. I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !!
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Post by Mark Mac on Apr 8, 2016 7:10:28 GMT
And yet again you exaggerate wildly. Pointing out that the man isn't totally irrelevant to the Panthers' success is a far cry from claiming that he has "some magical secret touch" or something. This is the problem here... blind hatred. You appear to be completely unwilling to accept - or completely incapable of doing so - anything other than total and bitter opposition to everything that GM is or does... and you twist the words of anyone who doesn't agree with you. Are you sure that you aren't a disciple of Dave Simms? The parallels are quite frightening. From my limited exposure to the man, I actually don't like Gary Moran very much - granted, I haven't spoken with him in years and I very much doubt he'd remember... or care if he did. Fair enough, no reason why he should. From what I know plus that which I have heard from people I trust, there are some major flaws in the way he does things... it strikes me that there is a lot of room for improvement in the way that the Panthers are run. But this total hatred of the man... this isn't the way to improve matters. It's just an excuse to dish out loads of bile... as if that's some kind of entertainment. And if the target wasn't GM it would just be somebody else. Hardly constructive, any of it. Blimey....and you reckon i went over the top ! Lol Nothing of the sort. I was merely giving my input and opinion on what was quite a good thread before you got involved. Believe me,i could tell you some damn good stories on some of Morans shenanigans. I think certain moderators need to go back to err.....moderation school !! To be fair to Shaggy, he does have a point. Whenever GM is mentioned in your posts it certainly does come across as pretty damn close to hatred. Or at least, if the attitude towards GM that you present is not hatred, then God help someone you actually do hate. Whether you admit it or not, you are massively discounting that he has been a significant part in Panthers average attendances (and so money) increasing over the last few years (whilst at the same time Notts County attendances have decreased significantly and Notts Forest have stayed the same). A significant part of that is because the Panthers are marketed better. GM does that, no-one else. The other reason will be that the Panthers have generally been fairly successful over the last 5/6 years. Yes I know, only 1 league trophy and countless frustrating performances and downright screw-ups, but new fans don't notice that. New fans notice that we've won a trophy yet again (Challenge Cup repeated wins). Now winning trophies is down to the coaching team, but GM does have an impact. (You cannot say that GM has no impact when we win, but then blame him when we lose.) My impression of GM is that he is a one-way communicator perfect for radio/print where there is no discussion, just announcement. That worked in the 90s and maybe first half of the 2000s. Unfortunately for him the world has changed so people expect communication to be two-way, to involve discussion. He expects to talk, he expects us to listen, that's where it ends. That is where he falls down. From everything I have seen I strongly get the impression he will not change. This season the Panthers have made better use of social media, with that Checking It Out (unfortunately GM presents it and does so badly - again, one-way communicator) and highlights on YouTube, the use of Twitter and Facebook. I get the impression that is all down to this Eddy guy who seems to have taken over the game commentaries as well. If he sticks around then maybe the club will slowly improve its communication with us.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Apr 8, 2016 8:21:38 GMT
I think the regular wins, in a lovely arena, is more likely where the crowd increases come from tbh, and I agree that Moran can take some credit for his part in those (although it's more Corey) but I don't really see any great marketing effort that's bought the numbers in (I live 15 minutes drive from the NIC and have never had any direct marketing from them).
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Post by Mark Mac on Apr 8, 2016 8:52:26 GMT
As someone (I believe mattscold) had posted but seems to have disappeared, regular wins in a good arena can't be the reason else Sheffield's attendance would have consistently increased over the same time. But even if regular wins were the reason, how do people hear about the success? They hear through marketing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he is a marketing genius at all, but he does deserve some credit.
As for direct marketing, wherever I've lived in Nottingham (Mapperley, Beeston, West Bridgford) I have received the fixtures list at the start of each season for a few years. It isn't all that effective a marketing strategy though. If I didn't already support the Panthers, receiving something through my letterbox has no impact on me. I've never received anything from Nottingham Forest, Notts County or Nottingham Rugby. Maybe sports teams don't think it's all that effective (I have no idea).
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