iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 14:36:44 GMT
Exactly Dp. A clear cut case of the Clan cheating or at best being economical with the truth and taking the league for mugs.....and the league fall for it,quite unbelievable !
There is also the issue of the Cam hit and the league letting the call remain. The call on the ice was WRONG simple as that,so why can't they admit it and show the ref was wrong,that bad call may well have cost Panthers the game and who knows, possibly a league title too. If it was a hit to the head,by Dops rules it was a one game ban,you cannot say the call was correct but take no further action,it was either a hit to the head or it wasn't.
The whole Dops thing is a complete joke,what is it with these league officials and their refs,are they too scared to admit the ref got it wrong big time !!!!!!
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Mar 2, 2016 14:53:36 GMT
The call on the ice was WRONG simple as that In your opinion. If it was a hit to the head,by Dops rules it was a one game ban Where has that been stated? Neilson fined for his comments too. Quite rightly. As for Corey,about time we said something about the Scottish refs as they are terrible,I would gladly pay his fine myself ! Where should he send the bill?
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 15:24:59 GMT
If it wasn't the wrong call Yotes,then Janssen should have got a game ban then,just like all the other previous players have for head hits.
Unless there is such a thing as "only a bit of a hit to the head so we won't penalise it" then by previous bans dished out it should have been a ban,or they should admit the ref got it wrong.
Neilson should have been fined yes,but I don't blame him one bit for speaking out against those Scottish refs,if it had been me in his position,then I would have said a lot worse and been fined and no doubt even got a 50% cage warning off Pies too !
The bill,well I would gladly pay it,it's probably only about ooooh twenty quid,I shall seek him out and ask him how much,worth every penny if it shows up the terrible reffing we have to put up with !
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Post by endisforever91 on Mar 2, 2016 16:01:40 GMT
I think DOPS have implicitly acknowledged that the call was wrong. The report says "no further action" and not "the call on the ice was correct".
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 16:38:37 GMT
The call should have been scrubbed completely from his record Endis.
If a player tots up i think it is five major pens,then when he reaches the fifth he gets an automatic ban,regardless of whether any of them actually incur a ban. So that unjust 5 plus game pen remaining on his record could mean he missed say the play off semi final if he committed more similar major pen offences between now and such time. That does not seem right or fair to me.
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Post by shmyrohdear on Mar 2, 2016 16:52:07 GMT
If you slow the footage down and screenshot the moment of contact (like i have unfortunately I'm an idiot and can't seem to post the image) it's clear that he did not make any contact with the head at all. Clean should and body pinned to boards. Clean hit, Cowan got it wrong. The league is a joke, how can they consistently back these guy's after week in week out blunders?
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Yotes
Forum Admin
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Post by Yotes on Mar 2, 2016 17:19:47 GMT
If you slow the footage down and screenshot the moment of contact (like i have unfortunately I'm an idiot and can't seem to post the image) it's clear that he did not make any contact with the head at all. Clean should and body pinned to boards. Clean hit, Cowan got it wrong. The league is a joke, how can they consistently back these guy's after week in week out blunders? Again, I can't see how anyone can be so definitive about it. From the angle provided you can't see Janssen's left shoulder, you can guess how far it extends through the hit but there could easily be some contact with whoever-it-is's chin. You'd need the side on angle to tell for sure, and of course someone had unplugged that camera to do some hoovering or something. Then again, even the fish-eye lens view we get is better than the one Neilson had: Arrow is Neilson (or could be Rick, but Neilson will be similarly placed). He can't possibly see the finer details of that hit from his angle. Still, at least he has Iggy to pay his fine for him.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Mar 2, 2016 17:24:54 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 17:52:41 GMT
Fair play for having the bottle to post on here. Very unlike you guys. Heard off Discoray yet? Yes I have actually, I'm still waiting for his facts from page one of the bottle thread. He's not been seen on here since. I don't actually think he exists. A bit like that Jesus bloke that some people rave on about.
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Shorty
Paul Adey
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Post by Shorty on Mar 2, 2016 18:19:31 GMT
They were two plus ten penalties though Yotes, not five plus game calls.
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Mar 2, 2016 18:27:02 GMT
Yes they were, but Iggy's argument: Unless there is such a thing as "only a bit of a hit to the head so we won't penalise it" then by previous bans dished out it should have been a ban,or they should admit the ref got it wrong. Seems to be that a check to the head, is a check to the head, is a check to the head. Check to the head = 1 game ban, so no 1 game ban = no check to the head. Clearly that hasn't been the standard used. 2+10's indicate there are gradations of the penalty. Just to be clear, I'm not saying Cowan was right, just that the indignation, from coach and fans, rubs me up the wrong way.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 18:35:10 GMT
They were indeed Shorty. What i don't get is why for the same offence,is one player given a 2+10 but another gets a 5+game penalty.......is it because he didn't hit him quite hard enough. Lol To me a head hit is a head hit,regardless of how hard you hit him,it's either a head hit or it isn't.
My main gripe is,these refs get it wrong and often,yet the league never admit it. If a player is cited for a head hit and is cleared,then the league should say the call was wrong....not say that no further action will be taken but let the penalty stand.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 18:40:24 GMT
If you were a ref Yotes and a player tripped somebody,but only tripped him "a little bit" .......would you call him for tripping ?
It's either tripping,or it isn't tripping !
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Yotes
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Post by Yotes on Mar 2, 2016 18:44:14 GMT
If I was a ref I'd be making Cowan look good But isn't it more a case of a Kelsey Wilson style slash and a little slash during normal play, are both slashes. But 1 should've got a much harsher penalty than the other. I don't really blame the league for not wanting to say their refs got it wrong, they must be doing it for petrol money and sadly are a vital cog. They can't throw them under the bus.
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
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Post by Discoray on Mar 2, 2016 19:20:56 GMT
Yes I have actually, I'm still waiting for his facts from page one of the bottle thread. He's not been seen on here since. I don't actually think he exists. A bit like that Jesus bloke that some people rave on about. I'm still here, just don't see the point in posting on such a topic since so many folk aren't even open to the alternate view no matter what's offered. As for the hit by Jansen on Keith since it's became such a talking point, I was sitting almost directly behind Cowan, just a bit higher up and watching the hit side on in real time it does look like a check to the head. So I can see why it was given, and because it appeared an injury was inflicted by the hit, the referee has the option within the rules to upgrade it from 2+10 to 5+game which he subsequently did. If not for the Keith spearing I personally think Jansen would have probably got the 2+10. I think he saw the chance to remove a big potential headache after what Keith did (with that being a game penalty), so got rid of both of them for the game. What happened after that was down to the Panthers, they lost their discipline from that point on taking some really stupid penalties. Despite that, they still probably should have won, but hey we should have won on your last visit up here and didn't, that's the way games go sometimes. As for the Clan or the ref "cheating" or the ref "helping" the Clan/Scottish sides, would say have a word with yourself and also the fans of all 4 Scottish teams. You'll find there's fans here up North that Cowan has it in for all their teams. (Especially in Fife.) If you were to say instead that Cowan was the worst referee we have in the league, I'd probably agree with that. The referees in general are just not great, nothing more sinister than that I'm afraid despite how much they annoy us all at some point. If not for some teams opting to penny-pinch last summer, we'd have 2 referees at all games this season and a 2nd referee would have likely had the same view as the replay did. Allowing the situation to be cleared up at the time instead of all this malarkey after the fact that no one wants or needs. Rather ironic in the end as a 2nd ref would likely save clubs money over the medium term as it should in theory result in less DOPS requests being required by clubs in the first place. This is the EIHL though, a one of a kind league in the world where turkeys vote for Christmas!
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Mar 2, 2016 19:44:58 GMT
Surely somebody (Spik) could tot up the total pen minutes given to each side by Scottish refs in games between Erhardt and Gardiner teams. I would bet my last cent,that the Erhardt teams would have one heck of a lot more against them than the Gardiner teams.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 20:10:29 GMT
Yes I have actually, I'm still waiting for his facts from page one of the bottle thread. He's not been seen on here since. I don't actually think he exists. A bit like that Jesus bloke that some people rave on about. I'm still here, just don't see the point in posting on such a topic since so many folk aren't even open to the alternate view no matter what's offered. You said your post was fact & when challenged to prove it you disappeared. If you answered with facts I would have judged them on face value as I do with all posts..... & then dismissed them with relevant sarcasm, as I do with all posts. You were given the platform but didn't perform. Real shame as it was getting interesting.
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Post by thebestpanthers on Mar 2, 2016 20:47:25 GMT
Surely somebody (Spik) could tot up the total pen minutes given to each side by Scottish refs in games between Erhardt and Gardiner teams. I would bet my last cent,that the Erhardt teams would have one heck of a lot more against them than the Gardiner teams. Would also be interesting to see what penalties are given by each ref - especially "abuse" penalties
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Post by newarktricky on Mar 2, 2016 20:55:50 GMT
Yes I have actually, I'm still waiting for his facts from page one of the bottle thread. He's not been seen on here since. I don't actually think he exists. A bit like that Jesus bloke that some people rave on about. I'm still here, just don't see the point in posting on such a topic since so many folk aren't even open to the alternate view no matter what's offered. As for the hit by Jansen on Keith since it's became such a talking point, I was sitting almost directly behind Cowan, just a bit higher up and watching the hit side on in real time it does look like a check to the head. So I can see why it was given, and because it appeared an injury was inflicted by the hit, the referee has the option within the rules to upgrade it from 2+10 to 5+game which he subsequently did. If not for the Keith spearing I personally think Jansen would have probably got the 2+10. I think he saw the chance to remove a big potential headache after what Keith did (with that being a game penalty), so got rid of both of them for the game. What happened after that was down to the Panthers, they lost their discipline from that point on taking some really stupid penalties. Despite that, they still probably should have won, but hey we should have won on your last visit up here and didn't, that's the way games go sometimes. As for the Clan or the ref "cheating" or the ref "helping" the Clan/Scottish sides, would say have a word with yourself and also the fans of all 4 Scottish teams. You'll find there's fans here up North that Cowan has it in for all their teams. (Especially in Fife.) If you were to say instead that Cowan was the worst referee we have in the league, I'd probably agree with that. The referees in general are just not great, nothing more sinister than that I'm afraid despite how much they annoy us all at some point. If not for some teams opting to penny-pinch last summer, we'd have 2 referees at all games this season and a 2nd referee would have likely had the same view as the replay did. Allowing the situation to be cleared up at the time instead of all this malarkey after the fact that no one wants or needs. Rather ironic in the end as a 2nd ref would likely save clubs money over the medium term as it should in theory result in less DOPS requests being required by clubs in the first place. This is the EIHL though, a one of a kind league in the world where turkeys vote for Christmas! You've conveniently not commented on Clan apparently taking the p with their 'camera technical issue'... NT
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Discoray
Robert Lachowicz
Simply Clantastic!
Posts: 418
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Post by Discoray on Mar 3, 2016 7:30:01 GMT
You've conveniently not commented on Clan apparently taking the p with their 'camera technical issue'... NT There's not much to comment on, I can't prove there was a problem no more than you can prove there wasn't one. It's also an unsubstantiated claim in an article that offers no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up. Clubs are required by the league to upload the full game footage, & also DOPS to provide footage upon request for reviews. If it were true footage was held back, the Clan would have been sanctioned by DOPS for failing to provide basic footage like Edinburgh were. (Goal cam shown on highlights is a bonus, but it's not required by the league.) Plus I'd expect the Panthers to make a complaint at how suspicious that kind of failure would be. (Though I'd expect even DOPS to be smart enough to think this as well.) After the deflecting Neilson done in his post-match interview, I suspect it's just more of same as he's knows after results handed them a big chance again to win the league, they trashed their own end of the deal. If you still feel that strongly about it, you can tweet the Clan Camera man on username: funkybokeh
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Post by Thomas Elliott on Mar 3, 2016 8:38:17 GMT
What i don't get is why for the same offence,is one player given a 2+10 but another gets a 5+game penalty.......is it because he didn't hit him quite hard enough. Lol I was under the impression that a 2+10 is the standard for a check to the head and 5+game was for a check to the head that produces an injury. What ever the official guidelines are for calling check to the head penalties are, that wasn't one.
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Ian
Matt Myers
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Post by Ian on Mar 3, 2016 9:04:50 GMT
As for the Clan or the ref "cheating" or the ref "helping" the Clan/Scottish sides, would say have a word with yourself and also the fans of all 4 Scottish teams. You'll find there's fans here up North that Cowan has it in for all their teams. (Especially in Fife.) If you were to say instead that Cowan was the worst referee we have in the league, I'd probably agree with that. The referees in general are just not great, nothing more sinister than that I'm afraid despite how much they annoy us all at some point. I'd certainly agree with that. I've witnessed Cowan skating out for a game in Fife - their fans' opinion of him is way lower than ours. Especially as they get to enjoy his officiating on a far more regular basis than we do. I don't buy into this "Scottish teams' favouritism" argument. Across all sports it is generally accepted that home teams tend to get the slightly better deal from match officials (whether that's down to pressure of the crowd or whatever). The trouble is, when an English side goes up to Scotland on a road trip you get two or three consecutive nights of Scottish refs and that builds up this perception that there's something going on. When in truth you probably get just as rough a deal as the visiting team in one-off matches anywhere else.
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Ian
Matt Myers
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Post by Ian on Mar 3, 2016 9:08:04 GMT
Surely somebody (Spik) could tot up the total pen minutes given to each side by Scottish refs in games between Erhardt and Gardiner teams. I would bet my last cent,that the Erhardt teams would have one heck of a lot more against them than the Gardiner teams. As I touched on in my previous post, I think you would get similar results comparing home and away team penalty minutes across the board. Maybe a full analysis would prove me wrong but I tend to think the Scottish angle is a red herring (or should that be a red Arbroath smokie?).
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Post by shmyrohdear on Mar 3, 2016 9:32:57 GMT
If you slow the footage down and screenshot the moment of contact (like i have unfortunately I'm an idiot and can't seem to post the image) it's clear that he did not make any contact with the head at all. Clean should and body pinned to boards. Clean hit, Cowan got it wrong. The league is a joke, how can they consistently back these guy's after week in week out blunders? Again, I can't see how anyone can be so definitive about it. From the angle provided you can't see Janssen's left shoulder, you can guess how far it extends through the hit but there could easily be some contact with whoever-it-is's chin. You'd need the side on angle to tell for sure, and of course someone had unplugged that camera to do some hoovering or something. Then again, even the fish-eye lens view we get is better than the one Neilson had: Arrow is Neilson (or could be Rick, but Neilson will be similarly placed). He can't possibly see the finer details of that hit from his angle. Still, at least he has Iggy to pay his fine for him. Because frame by frame he doesn't make contact with the head, even at that angle you can clearly see it. My comments about Corey still stand Cowan was diabolical even away from that call. The League should be stepping up or the officials at least to say okay we got that wrong. But they think the old "no further action" line makes the mistake okay. The penalty should be wiped, someone has to start taking responsibility for the atrocious officiating and sort it out if this league wants to take any steps forward.
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No 29
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 124
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Post by No 29 on Mar 3, 2016 15:52:19 GMT
Surely somebody (Spik) could tot up the total pen minutes given to each side by Scottish refs in games between Erhardt and Gardiner teams. I would bet my last cent,that the Erhardt teams would have one heck of a lot more against them than the Gardiner teams. Have done something similar, after wondering at the number of obvious penalties not called recently. Panthers have had Scottish refs eight times this season (inc one storm away) - opponents have had more powerplays than us seven times (score 7-1-0, last number even powerplay opps) Darnell as ref, 4 against, only one more, three even. Not much surprise there. Last thirty games, eighteen against us, six more for us, six even. Surprised me, especially with the number of other teams who defend far more aggressively. Of those 17 were away, 13 !!!! against , two more, two even. Home advantage works elsewhere ?? but not at NIC five against, four more, four even. Only refs this season who have given us more powerplays (totals of all games reffed) than opponents are Hogarth and Sewell.
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