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Post by texpef on Jan 11, 2016 19:10:09 GMT
Fair point Jordan HOWEVER... If the team are insured as they were a few years back (can honestly say I don't know now whether they are or not), the sidelined players were FREE as they were paid by insurance. Our injuries aren't any less not so it would make sense to continue to insure. EVEN SO, with the amount of injuries and the amount of money being made (and to continually make) to maintain a league challenge to me it would make sense to bring in replacements regardless of how temporary (oh and incidentally a temp contract can and always has been at most 3 months without a permit, which rather coincidentally is the end of the season now) and imho this challenge would more than likely bring punters in rather than keep them away making back the costs of said imports anyway with or without insurance...
Its ludicrous how many games we have played giving up import numbers to EVERY team we play and as a panthers fan I do feel somewhat cheated when our competitors can sign imports who are fit to sit in the stands when we haven't played a single game this season with a full compliment of imports on the ice. And it is even more annoying when we are continually getting told we are breaking attendance records ie more money for the club when they are obviously not spending this on supporting the playing staff to replace the missing injured gaps..
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 11, 2016 19:10:32 GMT
Panther G,how dare you suggest that Hardy was not what we needed. Have you not read that Panthers ALWAYS wait moons for just the RIGHT guy to become available ?
I guess neither of the two guys Cardiff just signed were the right guy eh......or maybe like potential new coaches in the last off season,they didn't like the sound of Panthers because it entailed working for Black and Moran !!!!!!!
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Post by tootootrain on Jan 11, 2016 19:12:37 GMT
Here's a thought which Bagheera's post in another thread has prompted. Have we overpaid for this squad...?! Ling wouldn't have been cheap, Moran also. I bet Kolnik, Bohmbach, Schulz & Dimmen are paid well. Clarke will be paid as the top Brit, Lee also. Imagine prizing Swindlehurst out of Dundee wasn't free. Cam wouldn't have joined us for nothing, I bet he's up there as well. Logan came from Russia didn't he? Not forgetting the two import keepers we now have..... Maybe Corey has plain overpaid. Why wouldn't Ling have been (comparitively) cheap? Although the allegations against him were dropped they were still made, and he isn't getting any younger. I can't imagine he commands anywhere near the wages he previously did. As for the others, wasn't the arguement made that the later players were signed generally the cheaper they are? The CHL squad last season is often considered an expensive one both due to the pedigree of players signed but also due to how early it was signed.
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Post by texpef on Jan 11, 2016 19:13:06 GMT
The rumour doing the Rounds on Saturday is that Marsh is done, not specified as to season or Career, I hope its the former as never want to see a guys career ended, but that would mean its only 2 spare... Oh just the TWO spare imports then.. shame, how will they cope with such troubling low numbers of imports available for them..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 19:31:52 GMT
Here's a thought which Bagheera's post in another thread has prompted. Have we overpaid for this squad...?! Ling wouldn't have been cheap, Moran also. I bet Kolnik, Bohmbach, Schulz & Dimmen are paid well. Clarke will be paid as the top Brit, Lee also. Imagine prizing Swindlehurst out of Dundee wasn't free. Cam wouldn't have joined us for nothing, I bet he's up there as well. Logan came from Russia didn't he? Not forgetting the two import keepers we now have..... Maybe Corey has plain overpaid. Why wouldn't Ling have been (comparitively) cheap? He played a little AHL last season. After his case was cleared he would have received offers..... Probably.
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bbw
Jade Galbraith
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Post by bbw on Jan 11, 2016 19:32:33 GMT
I think you guy's are getting a bit carried away by Cardiff carrying three spare imports.It's my understanding that Marsh and Walton are done playing wise, and Smith was someone working for the Devil's admin who just stepped up to the plate because he was capable of doing so. I don't see us as carrying any spares. Walton and Marsh will stay on the books.That's the benefit of having not one but four successful business men as owners all of which are hockey men and are standing by them.
When they were over for xmas in an interview one of them was asked if they make recommendations to Lord over players, he said all the time, but every time Lord has turned them down saying they need to be right for the locker room. Ryan Russell look's to be the exception,he contacted them at The Flames asking to play for the Devils.Looks like it was past on to Lord who this time said yes.
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Post by craighead on Jan 11, 2016 19:49:05 GMT
And we put highlights of our GREAT win against the Flyers on the website; you couldn't write it! I'm not going on Friday not because I'm not a loyal fan but because taking a family of 5 is always a stretch. I'm willing to prioritise £60 when we are trying our best ( at all levels of the club) but don't take the Mick. I suppose it doesn't matter to the club even though I starting going 20 years ago , there will be some happy clapper coming along to replace us all. what do i hear £2 off the Clan game? just wait...A seat is a seat eh Gary. As I've posted previously we need TWO new dmen or just tell us what we know; we are going to stay making a healthy profit and have a go at the play offs when our injuries clear up.
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Post by shaun30 on Jan 11, 2016 20:03:51 GMT
Think people are going a little o.t.t on this whole thing, but that's my opinion.
Cardiff may well continue to sign players, but they have to pay for them, and in this sport I don't think the effects of overspending hit home straightaway, how many times over the years have Sheffield proved this
And the end of the day it's a business in a minority sport and to be getting the attendances we have proves we must be doing something right??
For all it matters I don't care if Cardiff sign another 5 - that's up to them, they need to pay for it, and I will end this by saying they haven't won anything yet!!
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Post by wannabe2 on Jan 11, 2016 20:10:30 GMT
Yet teams in leagues all over the world seem to manage it. Indeed, the threat of being a healthy scratch often inspires players to play harder/better. But no, that kinda thing could never work in the EIHL because..? But this isn't any other league around the world, it's the EIHL with a player coach still learning his trade. This coach still learning his trade has his team top of the league bud.
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Post by wannabe2 on Jan 11, 2016 20:13:51 GMT
Can't fault the Devils for this signing. Will help their title push no end. Here's a pertinent question. Would any of the other top 4/5 teams play with two dmen down for such a period of time like we have? Of course they wouldn't. That says it all I'm afraid. That statement is spot on, your club surely is too big to play silly buggers, maybe just maybe they wil pulll a few rabbits out of the hat.
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Post by wannabe2 on Jan 11, 2016 20:23:33 GMT
Here's a thought which Bagheera's post in another thread has prompted. Have we overpaid for this squad...?! Ling wouldn't have been cheap, Moran also. I bet Kolnik, Bohmbach, Schulz & Dimmen are paid well. Clarke will be paid as the top Brit, Lee also. Imagine prizing Swindlehurst out of Dundee wasn't free. Cam wouldn't have joined us for nothing, I bet he's up there as well. Logan came from Russia didn't he? Not forgetting the two import keepers we now have..... Maybe Corey has plain overpaid. Don't forget Myers, Matt wouldn't come cheap, he has a house in Cardiff, his wife is from Cardiff.
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gazg
Jade Galbraith
Posts: 119
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Post by gazg on Jan 11, 2016 21:01:44 GMT
I do find some of these posts rather hypocritical considering the number of imports you've signed over the years.
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Post by panthersdave on Jan 11, 2016 21:08:13 GMT
I do find some of these posts rather hypocritical considering the number of imports you've signed over the years. Really? One game a year or two ago announcer stef was doing the program changes and commented that "it would be quicker to read out who IS playing rather than who isn't!" We have very rarely in recent years put out anything like a full roster of players, despite what appears to be a revolving door of signings.
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Post by steelersfanmatt on Jan 11, 2016 21:11:05 GMT
I do genuinely think that you guys have been short changed all year with regards to the import, yes you have the best brit pack in the league but its not on that you've been short all year. I would be really annoyed if steelers played short all year.
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Post by Mark Mac on Jan 11, 2016 21:44:44 GMT
I don't think anyone has asked for us to carry 3 spares have they? Cardiff (despite an average gate of less than half ours) seem to be able to bring quality imports in even though they have a spare already (Smith). Of the 2 other 'arena teams' Sheffield have replaced injured players even though they have carried a spare all season (Hey) or even two? Belfast have carried a spare all season (Benedict/Mason) too. We started the season, not with a spare. Not even with a full quota. We went in one short! We then failed to adequately replace a top import D-man (Waugh) who was out for 2 months and a top import forward (Schultz) who was out for 3 months. We then watched a combination of a patched up Wiikman struggling with a groin strain combined with Dan Green playing inconsistently for about a month. We are now playing 2 d-men down (Lee/Dimmen) with a forward (Mosey) on D - for 2-3 weeks and counting. All this against a back drop of 'record crowds' and 'best fans in the league' BS/spin from GM. How do other teams manage to carry spares and/or replace injured players whereas our management can't/won't do either? I could not agree more. Nor can I see how anyone can possibly argue with this.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,069
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Post by EMB on Jan 11, 2016 22:09:28 GMT
Panther G,how dare you suggest that Hardy was not what we needed. Have you not read that Panthers ALWAYS wait moons for just the RIGHT guy to become available ? I guess neither of the two guys Cardiff just signed were the right guy eh......or maybe like potential new coaches in the last off season,they didn't like the sound of Panthers because it entailed working for Black and Moran !!!!!!! Do you think they offered the job to Weber in the close season and he turned it down ? With all the hype around him last season I wouldn't put it past the management to try and buy him off because Corey was in no doubt that he wasn't coming back then all of a sudden they backtrack . I also could imagine them paying over the odds for some of the Brit pack just to stop every other club taking them, being a rare commodity the Brits know they have a job and could more or less name their price.
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 456
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Post by yeti on Jan 11, 2016 22:22:40 GMT
I see this in three different ways.
One we have been short changed with not replacing imports.
Two we should still have played better and won more games even with players out injured. Some of the players have notlayed well enough and have lrt us the fans down.
Three This will probably upet some Cardiff fans, who will blab on about how do I know their income and expenditure and players salaries ect but from my experiences of seeing a lot of teams overspend over the years to gain success. I can't see how Cardiff aren't doing this now. Their crowds and sponsors will not pay for the squad they have. Other owners struggled to run Cardiff with a lot smaller squad and left.Can't see what's changed to suddenly make them to be able to run this years team without serious money being pumped in by their owners.
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bbw
Jade Galbraith
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Post by bbw on Jan 11, 2016 22:53:23 GMT
I see this in three different ways. One we have been short changed with not replacing imports. Two we should still have played better and won more games even with players out injured. Some of the players have notlayed well enough and have lrt us the fans down. Three This will probably upet some Cardiff fans, who will blab on about how do I know their income and expenditure and players salaries ect but from my experiences of seeing a lot of teams overspend over the years to gain success. I can't see how Cardiff aren't doing this now. Their crowds and sponsors will not pay for the squad they have. Other owners struggled to run Cardiff with a lot smaller squad and left.Can't see what's changed to suddenly make them to be able to run this years team without serious money being pumped in by their owners. I think you may be right,but the Devils owners are Hockey men,that count's for a lot. They do have some financial clout though and have said they don't expect to make any money just have some fun. How long that will last is anyone's guess. I think Steve King was invited onto the board at Calgary Flames a few years back but declined because he didn't get on with someone who was on there.I don't think he's anyone's fool and would have known he needs to sell out the BBT this year if he is to entice more people into the new arena.A lot of people who get into hockey stay watching the sport for years, so extra investment this year may pay for itself if success follows.Free ice time and owners not taking a dividend will help too.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,069
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Post by EMB on Jan 11, 2016 23:04:24 GMT
Yes but isn't this Cardiff consortium mega rich? Rumour has it they could blow all the other clubs out of the water.
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
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Post by yeti on Jan 11, 2016 23:50:20 GMT
They maybe mega rich but not the first time that has happened in British hockey anyone remember Barr and Hall at Ayr and Newcastle both mega rich. I'll hold me breath and see where Cardiff are in a few years time.
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,484
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Post by iginla on Jan 11, 2016 23:57:07 GMT
It would seem that the Devils owners are mega rich yes,but Panthers whilst not in that league,still have serious money they "could" spend.
I'd say you are looking at around £25k - £30k a week to run the medium to bigger EIHL teams,so on their crowds Cardiff could probably comfortably manage bearing in mind they pay little or nothing for their arena. Panthers on the other hand on crowds of 5600 average "could" spend double that and still make a healthy profit,bearing in mind a home game each week will easily generate some £70k income.. They don't spend it though,therefore the only place it is going is Mr Blacks bank account.
Is it really any wonder the Panthers fans are feeling shortchanged,especially when the club constantly pays cheesy lip service to their fans and bangs on about ever increasing record crowds !
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Mark
Randall Weber
Experience has taught me that when it really matters the only person you can rely on is yourself.
Posts: 4,621
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Post by Mark on Jan 12, 2016 0:18:54 GMT
Neil Black has a lifestyle to maintain. Those Bentley's don't come cheap. Another season dies on it's arse but we'll all be back next September and they know it.
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Randolf
Pat Casey
DS.... what a clown.
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Post by Randolf on Jan 12, 2016 0:35:02 GMT
From a purely business point of view if the crowds are increasing due to the product they are supplying why change that. (Most) Customers are happy, business is making a profit, everyone is doing their job well. Changes would only happens if crowds fell and revenue reduced and at the moment that's isn't the case. The changes a few on here want won't be happening unless someone or something forced that issue. The majority of fans probably don't care about finances and personalities, they simply want to see hockey, have a nice place to watch it and follow a competative team (which we have been on the whole over the past few years). With regards team issues, Corey is responsible for choosing his squad (probably with a generous budget) chooses the tactics and motivates the guys, if some or all of that doesn't work then the buck stops with him imo. There's a lot of speculation and conjecture about who does what, who pulls which strings and who's fault it is when things go wrong but no one really knows but I'm sure playing wise that's Corey's gig. Personally i don't think it's a coincidence that Corey was all but done here at the end of last season but suddenly reappears with a tasty testimonial season to boot... That's a big carrot if ever there was one. IMO The acid test will be when he does depart, the next move could be pivotal in determining whether the next few years will be as comfortable in a hockey and business sense as the last few have been? personally I think we need to be looking forward rather than back... as Cardiff seem to be doing and fair play to them, nothing ventured nothing gained. Whether their approach will be long term successful (hockey or business wise) only time will tell but I can imagine the feeling of the Cardiff fans right now is a pretty optimistic, as a panthers fan after two and a half fairly miserable seasons, I know which scenario I prefer.
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EMB
Randall Weber
Posts: 4,069
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Post by EMB on Jan 12, 2016 1:12:46 GMT
Your right Corey does choose who the wants to play for Panthers but then that has to be rubber stamped by NB. Corey was told that NB would make the final decision on all signings. Corey was definatly not expecting to be back , he had said all his goodbyes as many sponsors will tell you, I still think the club had their eyes on someone else who then turned them down and they had to backtrack, and your probably right they had to dangle a very good carrot. I can't help feeling this will be his last year here but I hope he walks away of his own accord. At the end of the day whoever comes to coach this club has to get on with GM or they're wasting their time.
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gump
Pat Casey
Posts: 348
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Post by gump on Jan 12, 2016 2:44:17 GMT
Playing short is not the ideal however the team remains in the hunt despite mgt not addressing the team needs. Cardiff have not signed a impact player, he has not played this year and has less points in his career than most players with his pedigree in this league. As far as rich owners in Calgary I doubt their pockets are as deep as speculated given they are financial investors tied to real estate and the oil patch, both of which are in serious trouble in Alberta. Cardiff are spending this year as much or more than the big three so I will be interested to see what they are like next year and going forward when the dollars decline should the revenues not meet expenses. They have lost Marsh and Walton for the year I suspect so signing Russell is mgt motivated due to the Calgary connection not anything Lord or Kellman went after. He was unsigned for a reason especially given the time of the season so lets focus on the panthers and not speculate on some other teams boasting of championships.
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