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Post by sanjosefan on Jun 28, 2011 21:59:24 GMT
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,440
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Post by iginla on Jun 30, 2011 21:55:58 GMT
Don't talk silly.
Its about time the public sector workers lived in the real world instead of relying on their gold plated bomb proof pensions and 13 weeks holiday for some.
Sorry,but i have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Jul 1, 2011 10:05:10 GMT
Don't talk silly. Its about time the public sector workers lived in the real world instead of relying on their gold plated bomb proof pensions and 13 weeks holiday for some. Sorry,but i have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever. +1 |
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 1, 2011 10:40:12 GMT
Don't talk silly. Its about time the public sector workers lived in the real world instead of relying on their gold plated bomb proof pensions and 13 weeks holiday for some. Sorry,but i have absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever. Very valid point Iginla, I myself work in for a company that supports people with learning disabilities in the private sector, yet some of my family that work in the public sector are in up roar, yet I've explained to them that people have had to take pay-cuts and have alterations made to their pensions. |
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Post by wheelsandsnipe on Jul 1, 2011 18:51:05 GMT
My partner is a teacher. I'm pretty sure she lives in the real world.
Those 13 weeks aren't always holidays. Teachers are expected to plan, prepare and assess (whilst adapting to any new policies and practices that Gove deems fit to introduce). My lass gets to work for 7:45 and sometimes stays until she is kicked out of school by the head or the caretaker at 19:15. Even then she brings work home with her. Half terms are usually taken up with catching up with work and trying to get ahead so she can actually have some personal time. Weekends are taken up with marking and preparing resources for the following week.
Summer holidays usually consist of planning for the following year. It really grates on me when people assume that teachers work 8:00-16:00 and have 13 weeks off. I haven't done the figures but I'm sure that if I worked out how many hours she spends on work a year and then divided it by an hourly rate, I'm pretty sure it would come to somewhere not to much more than minimum wage. She works bloody hard for her job and while there are some teachers that do bare minimum even they have no option to take their work home with them. In my opinion, the pay they receive is not reflective of the work they do.
I'm not suggesting for a minute that teachers work solidly for 52 weeks a year, but they do a hell of a lot more than people give them credit for, and to make them work harder and longer for the same thing is stupid and insulting.
I admire anyone who chose to strike yesterday as they are making a stand for unacceptable suggestions. I do feel however, that this was a bit premature. The problem is that the government are twisting the outcome of the Hutton Report, in which Lord Hutton states that the public sector pensions are affordable. Where are the people calling for the head of the bankers (after that fiasco has blown over) who keep on giving themselves bonuses of millions that could be given to support both public and private sector pensions.
To say you have no sympathy in my mind is foolish, perhaps people have a very nonchalant attitude to this because they allowed themselves to be walked all over and changes to be made to their pensions. Would you say that the miners were wrong to strike all those years ago? In principle these two situations are the same, both have terms imposed upon them and both do not deem them acceptable. Standing up for what you believe in every man's god given right.
For the government to suggest the retirement age be raised to 68 is preposterous. In an education system that wants to promote that the children will have the best teachers to teach them, the government are now advocating older and older teachers that may not provide the children with the best education. How is that looking after the future generations? What if the older teachers are not deemed fit to teach and are sacked? How is that fair to them?
Michael Rosen (who is a very intelligent man, who is switched on to education after being Children's Laureate and has been asked for advice by the government on a number of issues including SAT testing) suggests this is a race to the bottom to those who argue that the private sector have been hit, so should the public sector be hit just as bad? I was always taught two wrongs don't make a right.
Teachers not only teach but are often the surrogate parents and role models to children who's real parents don't care. Their jobs go way beyond the 08:00-16:00 and 13 weeks off a year.
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 1, 2011 20:12:08 GMT
You say the 13 weeks of holiday aren't always holiday, its still more holiday than what most professions provide. With most professions people take the work home. I work as a support worker supporting adults with severe disabilities and mental illnesses. I often have to take my work home with me, to learn more about a specific disability or have to learn about a service users medication.
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Jul 1, 2011 20:50:01 GMT
Just to respond from another perspective. A guy I lived with at uni is now a teacher and he does get 13 weeks off, he says teaching is a doddle and spends all the holidays relaxing. And working 7 till 7 is not exclusive to teachers, I'm an accountant for a global manufacturing firm, I get 24 days holiday and regularly work 7 am till 11pm. So it's nothing special. There is a well known phrase which I genuinely believe to be true " those who can do those who can't teach"
Public sector workers have alot to be thankful for as they don't tend to deal with the deals private sector workers do.
Also, saying a rise in the penaionable age is wrong, how else would you expect exhausted pension scheme funds to continue to be sustainable while people are living longer, without increasing the retirement age or increasing contributions for the public sector? raise taxes for everyone so we can continue to fund it?
Also, I am a son of a miner an I don't see what good the miners strike did him, thatcher killed off the unions and then closed the mines, so it's a good question.... Was it a good idea in th long term, hindsight probably suggests they made a mistake?
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oldman
Simon Hunt
The World is full of experts
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Post by oldman on Jul 1, 2011 22:21:33 GMT
There is a bigger proportion of this countries GDP spent on supporting the pensions of the top 10% in the country, but never mind just swallow the coalition spin ok!
Also my union was not on strike, shame it wasn't though! One other Lee teaching in a University is not the same as a bog standard comp, although with the University cutbacks your mate who thinks it's a doddle may find the job has gone soon!
Funny thing is those who make derogatory comments about Teachers need to give it a go themselves, as for accountants indirectly responsible for the correct money not going to the taxman, tax evasion is rife in global business they say! See Lee we can all generalise about someone's profession!
I spent 35 years in the private sector and 10 in the public and I can assure you Lee the private sector is a doddle!
Finally if we didn't bail out greedy bankers who are still picking up massive bonuses the pension funding would be sorted, but do you think that will happen with a couple of boys from major banking families running the country!
In order for this govt to divert the blame for their economic old pals act, they needed to create a wedge between the public and private sector, guess judging by your post they are succeeding in their policy.
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 1, 2011 23:50:03 GMT
I think it's a myth between the private and public sector. For example in my line of work. Their is no difference between the NHS, Framework, Choices and NCHA. That is coming from people who I know personally all that is different is minor terms and conditions. I'm not a fan of the casino bankers at all what they did was unforgivable and inexcusable, but surely the geezers in the Commons should take some of the blame for not have a back up plan.
We all know the country is in the pits at the moment if people in the private sector have to make cut backs why should the public sector be exempt?
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lee
David Clarke
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Post by lee on Jul 2, 2011 10:08:50 GMT
I said a friend from uni is a teacher, not that he's a teacher in uni.
We'll all have an opinion on private / public sector work, I simply gave a perception from my side and direct opposite comment on how tough teachers have it from the experience of my friends.
your welcome to give my job a go if you think its a doddle! You'll need to get one of the toughest professional qualifications around though first. I actually know teachers that have never held a job outside teaching, or went to uni messed up and decided they couldn't get any other job so went into teaching, one of them even teaches secondary school kids maths and only had 4 gcse's of a D grade! I! I'm not saying their all that way, but some are so I don't buy this argument that they have it tougher than anyone else.
I also think you'll find that since the introduction of the ppf pension levy there is less support of private sector pensions than you think as all major companies are legally required to pay towards the fund.
I still have zero sympathy for their strike. It won't provide a solution to their decreasing pension pot and I don't see why I should pay more taxes to bail it out.
I'm not that interested in arguing, it just grinds at me when teaches give a hollier than thou approach, and as has been mentioned why should the public sector be exempt from bailing us out the recession!
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 2, 2011 10:40:13 GMT
In times we are experencing, we the public need to be uniting together and not creating a divide between the private and public sectors.
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on Jul 2, 2011 11:24:19 GMT
In times we are experencing, we the public need to be uniting together and not creating a divide between the private and public sectors. Exactly however the govt sought to create this divide to get support for their draconian policies, one of which was we will not cutback on funding for education. However they did this through back door and hidden policies! One of which is lowering the allowances for funding 6th forms in schools to the levels of tech collages, who pay their sometimes less qualified staff a lower salary! Another one ironically given some comments before is funding for SEN students per head, and also reduction in the free school meal allowances. No school is going to allow a sub standard education or experience within schools for the students, so the individual schools have to make up the shortfall from their budget, thus meaning staff cuts, as an example the govt's alleged none cut backs in my school amounts in real terms to between 400k-500k loss of funding this year and if they maintain their hidden policies will rise year on year. Lee glad you were so affronted by my attack on your profession and no. I could not be an accountant but also I reckon you can not walk into a classroom and teach 30 students who all have various problems or outlooks on why they are there! So will leave the pettiness of that now simply wanted to see your reaction! I have worked in for want of a better title The Real World and yes sometimes I have discussions about the fact that some teachers are cloistered by always existing within the education system however this does not affect their skills just their perception of life outside the school gates! Finally as I said before this economic crisis was created by greedy bankers, ourselves wanting more and more credit to buy goods, and certainly by weak govt's of all colours, the problem as I see it now is the poorest members in society are being asked to take the biggest hit, whilst the top 10% are still having their generous pensions and bonuses funded in what are for some state owned banks by the rest of us! The strikes were labelled as pension strikes but they were also about the unfair policies throughout the whole of the coalitions economic strategies! Ok that is my opinion it may differ from yours but such is life! |
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Post by pantherdman on Jul 2, 2011 19:15:37 GMT
Lets not single out the people striking.
The government is shafting all of us and it's been setting this situation up for years and years.
Fair play to people striking, but sadly i didn't even notice, just a few less cars on the road at rush hour which was nice.
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Shaggy
Forum Moderator 
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Post by Shaggy on Jul 2, 2011 21:29:38 GMT
Lets not single out the people striking. Why not? It's practically a reflex action on the part of unions these days... if they don't immediately get what they want - strike. If they think they're not going to immediately get what they want - strike. If they are making demands that they know are unreasonable - strike. If they haven't got anything else to do and want to justify their existence - strike. And remember - most of the time, when these unions call a strike, it's us ordinary people who bear the brunt of it. They deliberately inflict anything from inconvenience down to outright hardship on people who have nothing to do with the decisions they are supposedly protesting. Basically - it's economic terrorism. Which government? The current lot have only been in power for a short time. Anyway, "shafting all of us" seems to be what governments tend to do sometimes (I think it's part of the job description)... however, it's also what these unions do a hell of a lot more of the time. Fair play? Yeah, right. They don't want "fair"... they want more. Same old, same old. As long as they get more slops in their trough, they'll stick their snouts in and to hell with the consequences. Tell you what... give them real fair play... put 'em on performance-related pay... they get paid for how hard they work. Believe me.. it's a great motivator (I'm on performance-related pay... I don't get ANY pay rise unless I've worked for it!). What could be fairer than that? |
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oldman
Simon Hunt
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Post by oldman on Jul 2, 2011 23:23:55 GMT
Yeah good call put surgeons on performance related pay they rush through ops to make more money, might kill a few doing it but what the heck!
It is the democratic right to strike one of the few weapons the ordinary guy in society has to defend their rights!
The only ones with their heads in the trough are bankers and MP's with their expense fiddles and massive pensions!
Differing views suppose it depends the environment you work in, however it would be foolish to judge everyone by your working experiences !
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 3, 2011 12:02:14 GMT
Performance pay doesn't really work and won't work fairly due to favoritism. You could have a boss and two employees, employee X, might not be very good at their job but may a have a good friendship with their boss, due to that they may get a pay rise, employee Y might be good at the job but not flavor of the month with the boss. Oldman makes a valid point, about surgeons you want a surgeon to do a good and competent job to the patient you don't a want patients coming back as the first operation wasn't a success, that would cost the tax payer more money and increase waiting times for operations. Also performance related pay wouldn't work with young people who have just left school, college or uni.
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Post by Number 9.1 on Jul 3, 2011 12:57:37 GMT
... The current lot have only been in power for a short time... Yeah, that's right. I wonder what it'll be like when they stop pussy-footing around and finally show their hand? I reckon it's going to be great for everyone! Eh? Oh. |
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Post by sanjosefan on Jul 3, 2011 13:31:57 GMT
... The current lot have only been in power for a short time... Yeah, that's right. I wonder what it'll be like when they stop pussy-footing around and finally show their hand? I reckon it's going to be great for everyone! Eh? Oh. That's the problem with Coalitions, they're unelected and paired with another party with different political views, it makes the country stale, halts the progression of economic growth due to differences between the parties, I expect the UK to just get worse while we have an unelected bunch politician's in charge. |
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Mark
Randall Weber
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Post by Mark on Jul 6, 2011 21:47:54 GMT
I get 25 days holiday a year and a company pension that dilutes minute by minute.
Life's tough, get on with it.
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