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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 11, 2010 20:56:43 GMT
A contract is only good if you are going to get paid and this is what the players will be worried about But only if (or perhaps quite likely, when) the Steelers actually fail to pay their players will they (the Steelers) be in breach of contract and said contracts null and void. Until that point the contract, no matter how 'iffy' an organisation its agreed with, is legal.
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Post by The Flying Shirt on Jul 12, 2010 7:58:28 GMT
A contract is only good if you are going to get paid and this is what the players will be worried about But only if (or perhaps quite likely, when) the Steelers actually fail to pay their players will they (the Steelers) be in breach of contract and said contracts null and void. Until that point the contract, no matter how 'iffy' an organisation its agreed with, is legal. That was my point but I think that you will find that the contracts are more "agreements" between the clubs than anything legal.
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Post by focus12 on Jul 12, 2010 14:34:39 GMT
Surely the 'contracts'players have signed run from maybe, mid-August to the end of the season, otherwise the owners would be paying their wages now, or am I being a little niaive? To me that means no-one is under contract to anyone until these times, and therefore have no contract to break.
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jul 12, 2010 15:11:16 GMT
Even if it is not contractual, there is an agreement in place that teams will not sign a player from another team without that teams consent.
If Tait gives his two weeks notice, then unless Steelers agree, he cannot sign for any other Elite League team. He can go abroad if he likes, he can become match night announcer, or run a club shop, but he cannot play without Steelers say so.
I cant see any team going against the other clubs on something like this.
The agreement was built to give the teams who are less financially sound an element of protection, in case they found themselves with the next Tony Hand on their books, and all the cash rich clubs jumping in and offering him more money.
I think some people are going a bit overboard on this purely because its the Steelers.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jul 12, 2010 15:29:20 GMT
I think some people are going a bit overboard on this purely because its the Steelers. I think several of their players are having this exact same conversation, examining the exact same 'nuances' with the various contracts, agreements, moral rights and wrongs and so on as they try to work out the best thing to do for their own careers, futures and financial security. Take the name of the team out of it and look at it objectively, if you were a business owner and this company approached you to do a bit of business which would mean you doing work for which they would retrospectively pay you how confident would you be that they are good for the cash? This is exactly the situation those players are in. And potential sponsors. And other people supplying services, equipment or anything tangible to the club. Right now I have to say that the potential for there to be some sort of 'players not paid' type issue at some point has to be rated as high. You don't take your website down for this length of time for maintenance. You don't go into liquidation because of a few small cash flow problems. There is no smoke without fire and right now no-one is trying to put the fire out.
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jul 12, 2010 16:09:38 GMT
I can see where you are coming from, but at the same time there are normal companies up and down the country who are going through similar tough times.
People within those industries will still be tied in with a contract, some will have restrictions that they are not allowed to leave to work for a competitor within a certain radius. The fact that whilst the company they work for still exists, they cant just bail out because they think they will not get paid.
The issue here is to do with players cancelling their contract and going to another Elite League team. Whilst the Steelers exist, they cant.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jul 12, 2010 16:31:47 GMT
Legally, yes, but in practice no-one wants an employee that doesn't want to work for them. The player cannot 'cancel' their contract, but they can call up Steelers HQ (obviously no-one will answer) and make a lot of noise. That same noise several times over fro different players is going to be a hell of a headache for an incoming coach.
And if they are going to go down the legal route they better make damn sure they pay them in full and on time because the second they don't there is only one thing an already disenchanted employee will do.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jul 12, 2010 19:57:44 GMT
If an import said to Steelers now "im not happy with this situation and don't want to come, but if you make me i will come over, then give you two weeks notice after the first game".
Would you take the risk and pay all the costs of bringing a player over if you were Steelers, i don't think so !
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Post by pantherinmanc on Jul 12, 2010 20:00:28 GMT
If he's any good, he should ring us, do a deal and once here and all paid for we'll take him as IR cover.
:-)
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Jul 12, 2010 21:03:11 GMT
If an import said to Steelers now "im not happy with this situation and don't want to come, but if you make me i will come over, then give you two weeks notice after the first game". Would you take the risk and pay all the costs of bringing a player over if you were Steelers, i don't think so ! That scenario doesnt really sit with what we are discussing though. An import in the States can give two weeks notice now and sign for another club in the States. If it were the case he did not want to play for Steelers, he would most likely have a bad impression of British Ice Hockey anyway. The thread is more about Tait & Phillips, both who are already here.
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iginla
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Post by iginla on Jul 12, 2010 21:53:14 GMT
Yes i can see your point Shorty, but Tait or Phillips could go the same route as an import and go abroad to play, if in fact they can be prevented from playing for another elite league team.
I reckon its the player who holds all the aces on this one.
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Post by pantherdman on Jul 13, 2010 9:47:30 GMT
If they want to leave, they will. There doesn't appear to be much loyalty around the place.
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 13, 2010 10:15:14 GMT
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Post by pantherdman on Jul 13, 2010 10:43:07 GMT
I'm starting to want Bob Phillips to succeed, all of a sudden everyones a turn coat and 'Uncle' Bobs money aint good enough for them anymore.
I hope he hangs in there and roles a team of kids if neccessary.
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Robbie Nud
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Post by Robbie Nud on Jul 13, 2010 11:16:59 GMT
If a player has signed for a club, does the club not hold their playing licence or whatever it is called. So if a player said I'm not coming and the club said you've signed a contract so you are and if you don't come you're not going anywhere else. Something like the Panthers did to Simoes.
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Post by panthers4ever on Jul 13, 2010 11:17:58 GMT
Agree hope he hangs in ther Not looking very good though
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Post by howeaboutthat on Jul 13, 2010 11:51:31 GMT
If a player has signed for a club, does the club not hold their playing licence or whatever it is called. So if a player said I'm not coming and the club said you've signed a contract so you are and if you don't come you're not going anywhere else. Something like the Panthers did to Simoes. The 'licence' you are referring to is the ITC, but they are held by the national controlling body rather than the individual teams. There is an agreement (in leiu of an actual rule in a rulebook) to stop players moving to other UK teams without approval by both teams involved, but there is nothing to stop players walking out to non-UK based teams.
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Warren
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Post by Warren on Jul 13, 2010 12:42:40 GMT
The way I understood it Kronwalled is yes the ITC card is held with he governing body (IHUK?). As for players moving between clubs, its never happened pre season so there is no precedent. as far as I am aware its all about who terminates the contract or instigates the 2 week notice clause. If its the club, by doing this the player is free to go wherever he he wants, UK or abroad. - eg Half the Racers team that went to Sheffield when they folded. - the clubs terminated their contracts. Or the move of Lyle from Basingstoke to Belfast (Rumour was he was on stupid money and released him to keep them a float) If its the player, then he can go abroard but due to the gentlemans agreement he can't sign. this is to stop the bigger fish poaching players mid season on 2 year deals, yr1 on peanuts, year 2 on huge salary. Simoes, was an example as above, trouble is he was still in his 2 week notice. now if the club agree to waive his attendance, he can go play for whoever. But in that case they made him sit in the stands. IF it had been Cardiff who had come in, I bet they would of let him go. (See Jan Krullis, who allegedly got on the bus with the Bracknell team after we played them at the NIC....) The trouble is, As we are in the pre-season, who knows what is correct etc. Does the gentleman's agreement get enforced? OR does the 2 week notice and no IT card (not that either needs one in Tait and Phillip's case) mean its fair game. Thinking about it, surely if Steelers breech the contract (non payment, equipment obligations, housing arrangements, number of Jibes printed in the Star ) I think in the example above (Tait and Phillips) they could walk and play for who ever they want. Import may not be so clear cut.
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Post by Rob Scott on Jul 13, 2010 12:46:37 GMT
If we got Tait we could definitely roll 4 lines...
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Robbie Nud
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Post by Robbie Nud on Jul 14, 2010 11:26:39 GMT
No we couldn't as he would be sitting out a 10 min for mouthing off to the ref!!
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Post by panthers4ever on Jul 14, 2010 11:59:01 GMT
True and he wouldnt come back to Panthers
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Post by Rob Scott on Jul 14, 2010 12:00:13 GMT
Was only joking
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Post by panthers4ever on Jul 14, 2010 12:04:40 GMT
lol
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