LUFC
Ashley Tait
Game On!
Posts: 1,819
|
Post by LUFC on Sept 11, 2006 9:31:23 GMT
www.eliteleague.co.uk/news/detail.php?id=4336It's all about ZT and how we need to be patient in order for the game to benifit after the initial bedding period. I for one am grateful they are clamping down, the games in the NHL flowed much faster when i saw them last season (actually at the stadiums not on tv) when ZT was implemented. Good move, and glad to see the elite league are on top of things and responding to "critism" of the ZT early on.
|
|
|
Post by charlish2099 on Sept 11, 2006 11:12:14 GMT
thats fine but im scared of losing payers because of ZT, players looked vivbiliy fed up with the penaltys, and nt jus because they been called, it was the frequencey, did the call one for kneeing at the bison game? i like the idea of ZT but maybe a gradual implemaentation?
|
|
twix
Lorne Smith
Posts: 754
|
Post by twix on Sept 11, 2006 11:19:28 GMT
thats fine but im scared of losing payers because of ZT I don't understand your comment. ZT is not just being introduced by the EIHL it is being introduced by the EIHL because it has already been introduced by the NHL, (and AHL?) and by all IIHF competitions which means the majority of senior leagues in IIHF nations have also introduced it. Where are we going to lose players to? I would have thought we were less likely to lose players as the smaller, faster ones will be less likely to be worried about having a serious injury and at the very least not being able to play the way they know they can, because of the way the game has been played up til now in the EIHL.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyden on Sept 11, 2006 11:20:43 GMT
Of cause ZT will work better in the NHL, they have four lines and play the game much faster than we do.
|
|
|
Post by charlish2099 on Sept 11, 2006 11:26:12 GMT
ok sorry, my main point is though is it better introduced gradually, maybe save some frustration?
|
|
|
Post by newham on Sept 11, 2006 11:59:25 GMT
I agree with that Nath, i think this is too big a jump for one season. Bringing in ZT is a great idea but we need to gradually implement it if you ask me, making the rules a little more stringent over a 3 year period say?
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Sept 11, 2006 12:04:13 GMT
How on earth can you bring in zero tolerance gradually? What would we have - 'almost-zero tolerance'? - '20% tolerance'? How would you decide what part was tolerated when, and when would it shift to zero tolerance?
Surely that would be far more confusing, both to fans and (especially) to players.... "OK - so what's being clamped down upon this week?"
Zero tolerance is zero tolerance - plain and simple. Let's just get it all sorted at once, just like they did in the NHL.... get the adjustment period out of the way as fast as possible, not spread it over a period of several months (or even years).
|
|
|
Post by thisiswhere on Sept 11, 2006 12:07:42 GMT
I have to disagree, there were several penalties last night where i saw both Panthers and Bison players consult the ref, ask what the penalty was for and when the ref briefly explained the players (Kraijeck on a couple of these occasions i remember seeing) acknowledged what was said, nodded his head to show it was taken on board then went straight to the box. To gradually implement it will take ages to bring in and mean the game will still be restricted to some extent for a lengthy spell. Bringing it in now is better as it means the games are very stop start for the first 2 or 3 months but when the players are aware how the game has to be played then around the New Year sort of period the game should be far more free flowing and entertaining. This is surely better than waiting three years for such a style of hockey to be fully implemented?? Finally, why were people booing? yes the penalties and the frequency of them is very frustrating but we were warned it would be this way so why do people boo as if it was unexpected?
|
|
|
Post by Louisa on Sept 11, 2006 12:07:58 GMT
I as a player think its absolute pants. We (the Streatham Storm) played Bracknell Bees yesterday and the ref wasn't letting anything go, and the girls came off the ice going "what did I do???" I don't think we got back to playing 5 on 5 at all!! Looking at the penalties you would have thought it was a rough game, but it wasn't. I got 2 mins for high sticking. What in fact happened, I took a slap shot and the girl skated into me!! So don't tell me to keep my stick down whilst I'm taking a shot!!!!
As for players leaving the game... I know a good few who have mentioned it. One of them is me.
|
|
|
Post by newham on Sept 11, 2006 12:08:16 GMT
It's very possible Shag. Make the rules gradually more stringent by the season, possibly over 2 or 3 years. Much in the way that you can take it from 100% tolerance to 0%, you can also take it to 50%. Saying that however, you do need the men to enforce it...
|
|
Higgy
Les Strongman
Posts: 5,293
|
Post by Higgy on Sept 11, 2006 12:12:10 GMT
I think last night was the perfect example of why we need to give it time, the dirst period was a nightmare for both teams but after about 30 minutes the game was fast and free flowing and was good once the teams got used to the rules
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Sept 11, 2006 12:20:39 GMT
It's very possible Shag. Make the rules gradually more stringent by the season, possibly over 2 or 3 years. Much in the way that you can take it from 100% tolerance to 0%, you can also take it to 50%. How? Take the Hooking penalty (random example). How do you enforce 50% tolerance on that? Do you only penalise it 50% of the time? Do you only penalise a player if his stick is more than 50% around the opposing player? (and how do you tell for sure at up to 20mph?) Do you set an arbitrary limit and let the refs make a value judgement as to whether it's over 50%? Most of the complaints about the refs over the past few years have centred around how the different refs interpret things differently (and sometimes the same ref doing it differently in the same game)... and we want to continue with that? And then - once everyone's spent ages trying to get used to this halfway house - do you then upset the applecart again by going to zero tolerance? Half-measures would be a disaster, not to mention horribly complicated. Zero tolerance is surely much easier to understand, enforce and obey... if you lay your stick on an opposing player, you get binned. Simple to understand, simpler to enforce, simpler for the players to get used to it. It's like taking off a plaster - instead of sitting there pulling it off millimetre by millimetre, wincing all the time - let's just rip the sucker off in one go. Sorted.
|
|
Jonno
Pat Casey
Posts: 379
|
Post by Jonno on Sept 11, 2006 12:30:56 GMT
Finally, why were people booing? yes the penalties and the frequency of them is very frustrating but we were warned it would be this way so why do people boo as if it was unexpected? Just because something is expected it doesn't mean you have to like it. People weren't booing because it was unexpected, they were booing because it was ruining (a clean) game. There was no passion or intensity or excitment in that first period, just bewilderment and frustration. Fair enough, it's not the refs fault, he's just doing his job, but I think many people felt that they had to release their anger on someone.
|
|
|
Post by Louisa on Sept 11, 2006 12:39:36 GMT
Fair enough, it's not the refs fault, he's just doing his job, but I think many people felt that they had to release their anger on someone. I believe the refs have been told to play by the rules, even if they dont agree with it and the crowd is on their back. Looking at it from their point of view... its giving them more work to do, and it also means Moray Hanson can't get home for his dinner quite so quickly now!!
|
|
Jonno
Pat Casey
Posts: 379
|
Post by Jonno on Sept 11, 2006 12:48:44 GMT
Yeah I know, my above post acknowledged that it is not the refs fault for implementing the rules
|
|
Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
|
Post by Doughnut on Sept 11, 2006 12:48:56 GMT
I agree with Shaggy on this one. Letting some stuff go and calling others is what they've already been doing until now. ZT should be just that - ZT.
It's long over due IMO, I've never understood why so much has gone unpunished in the past. As far as I'm concerned, the rules have been there in black and white for ages. If you break the rules you shouldn't get away with it. If too many offences are being punished, then blame the players for committing them, not the refs for punishing them.
|
|
|
Post by dicky on Sept 11, 2006 12:51:31 GMT
All things being well, things should sort themselves out within the next few weeks. If we take last seasons NHL as an example, in the preseason games over there immediately after the lockout each game had a horrendous number of penalties as the players got used to the rules. However, as they all learned what was acceptable and not, the number of penalties dropped back down to a normal level. As we have less pre-season games over here, it would then follow that this bedding in period will stretch into the opening few games of our regular season.
I think it is simply a case of once the players have adapted to what they can and cannot do then things will all be fine and the number of penalties will get back to normal. It sounds easy to say that they know the new rules, so why don't they just play by them. However, in the length of time that they have been playing, the previous standards for infringements and what they can get away with will have become habit, and inevitably these habits will take a while to break.
Dicky
|
|
|
Post by thisiswhere on Sept 11, 2006 12:59:38 GMT
I know what you're saying Jono and dont get me wrong i too found it very frustrating but the point i want to make is that at the end of the day the refs are being instructed to come down hard on any types of obstruction so that once things settle down and the players know what they can get away with the standard of hockey will improve and the game as a whole will be better for it. So yes i like everyone else found it frustrating but at the same time its good to see steps are being taken to improve the sport and make it a better flowing sport on the whole for all fans
|
|
Shaggy
Forum Moderator
Am I a cynical idealist or an idealistic cynic?
Posts: 10,995
|
Post by Shaggy on Sept 11, 2006 13:01:07 GMT
And if I might add... the loudly-voiced fears of some that ZT would mean the death of physical hockey have been disproved, I think. Sure - in the first period it DID seem as if Boniface was making it totally non-contact... but once it settled down, we were getting some great hits. We even had a corker of an open-ice hit... and how many of those have we been seeing in recent years? Not enough IMHO.
Speed, skill, goals and clean thundering hits... that's ice hockey at its best IMHO. If everyone works at it, I think that's what ZT will give us.
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Sept 11, 2006 13:08:58 GMT
Zero Tolerence by its very name and nature has to be an 'all or nothing' experiement. Otherwise it would be called the 'hope for tolerence' ruling depending on which official you get.
Here's a question for you nottingham fans over the weekend how many times did you see players remenstrate with the referee about calls? i am talking about moaning and whinging and asking what he had called?
I know in cardiff it was only the fighting penalties that took some time with ref's talking with players, otherwise players just nodded sat down in the box and got on with it because They now know they are going to get called.
If the elite league hadnt implemented this rule this year we would be in severe danger of falling furthur and furthur behind the rest of the world in hockey terms, and i would have expected to see more and more Cornishes playing their trade over here, not good viewing.
It will work it just needs time
|
|
Doughnut
Forum Admin
mmmmmm ... Doughnuts
Posts: 5,072
|
Post by Doughnut on Sept 11, 2006 13:19:21 GMT
Here's a question for you nottingham fans over the weekend how many times did you see players remenstrate with the referee about calls? i am talking about moaning and whinging and asking what he had called? I think the only one I noticed doing any serious mouthing off got 2 mins for misconduct or something on those lines. Can't remember who it was (Bison) and it doesn't seem to be on ih-update. P.S. There were a few "charging" calls that looked like people were being penalised for checking though. They seemed to confuse players & fans more than the other calls.
|
|
|
Post by Spooks on Sept 11, 2006 13:31:49 GMT
Roller hockey on ice anyone But still this very dependent on the refs, and the fact there is to much ice for them to cover as one person. So we can give the linesman some more responsability or get another ref on. Some of the calls last night Boniface was halfway down the ice. Not the best position to be in and let the game flow, but thats where we are with one ref. Zero T can be enforced but it needs the refs to talk to the players a little more maybe, i.e watch ya holding your still holding etc and blow the whistle. In the end though if it ends up being like the first 2 periods like last night then people will leave in there droves.
|
|
Rich
Paul Adey
Go hard or go home
Posts: 6,691
|
Post by Rich on Sept 11, 2006 13:40:16 GMT
To be honest if iv got one concern its that players in the elite league arnt NHLers, they are generally less skilled and older (well d'ur!) which means they arnt the skaters of the NHL so instead of not hooking people they will HAVE to hook them and just take the penalties
|
|
|
Post by NevesMetro on Sept 11, 2006 14:17:44 GMT
TBH I don't really care what the NHL do, we are miles away from them. We need to be in-line with the likes of the ECHL, CHL and all the other leagues that the ELITE attracts new players from. I'm not sure what rules they follow? I hope it's ZT, otherwise we could have teething trouble every season because of the high turnover of players we have.
|
|
|
Post by gazzathedevil on Sept 11, 2006 15:06:40 GMT
TBH I don't really care what the NHL do, we are miles away from them. We need to be in-line with the likes of the ECHL, CHL and all the other leagues that the ELITE attracts new players from. I'm not sure what rules they follow? I hope it's ZT, otherwise we could have teething trouble every season because of the high turnover of players we have. All leagues in the world from this season will be operating under Zero tolerence, can you imagine how bad it would be for recruiting if we were the only league that didnt!
|
|