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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 24, 2010 9:22:55 GMT
£6m is the toal at the end of the season? or £6.7m? or is that the total now?
Smoke + Mirrors.
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Post by Number 9.1 on Feb 24, 2010 10:30:08 GMT
Meadow Lane's favourite hierophant, Matt Scott, has an interesting line today on the possibility of the League interpreting Notts' debt settlement as 'administration by another name'. He's merely posing the question, I think, but given his record to date I wouldn't be quick to rule it out.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 24, 2010 15:44:22 GMT
Meadow Lane's favourite hierophant, Matt Scott, has an interesting line today on the possibility of the League interpreting Notts' debt settlement as 'administration by another name'. He's merely posing the question, I think, but given his record to date I wouldn't be quick to rule it out. Im guessing it relates to the rumours we looked at getting a CVA, If so its old news as it wasnt possible. The thought was a CVA would do most of what admin does, but wouldnt get us a -10 but it was then confirmed a CVA would carry -10 also. Thats the word anyway, it could be unrelated.
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Feb 26, 2010 4:05:51 GMT
Sounds like good news. I've just logged in and read this for the first time (I'm honeymooning in Oz and it's EPL news and nothing else over here).
There still remains more questions than answers but there's a glimmer of hope.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 26, 2010 8:51:05 GMT
Sounds like good news. I've just logged in and read this for the first time (I'm honeymooning in Oz and it's EPL news and nothing else over here). There still remains more questions than answers but there's a glimmer of hope. True theres certainly still a lot to explain, but at least we can do something we havnt been able to for quite a while and start looking to the future. Its not going to be the big plan, but at least its a plan RT has got. Lets hope the players can knuckle down and concentrate on winning games. There might be a lot still to sort off the pitch, but gettings things right on it sure can help take peoples minds off it, and lift spirits around the club.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 26, 2010 11:35:46 GMT
In other news, Pompey have entered administration (I doubt Mr Storrie can come out with any credit this time, surely!) and Bournemouth have been issued a winding up order from HMRC. Being a Notts fan I sympathise with both clubs, Bournemouth owe money to creditors though so administration could solve nearly all their problems, a luxury Notts dont have.
Also, Chester have been expelled from the football league system. Poor Chester, also poor Mansfield (and any other team whove had their points taken away from the games V Chester).
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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 26, 2010 12:03:47 GMT
One thing i think is worth noting is that actions speak much louder than words, this is something Trembling would do well to note. Trew has already done excessively more to preserve the long term good of Notts County thanTrembling did and regardless of Trew's previous record he has, thus far, shown himself to be acting without question in the best interests of NCFC. I just don't buy the 'he sunk 500k of his own money into it, he was blameless' line of thinking with regard to PT. Trew is obliged to say that, he doesn't need a war of words with Trembling, he has a job to do which is hard enough. I always felt , and still do feel, that as the front man for the whole charade Trembling is the man responsible for what has happened at Notts. He owes the Notts fans and indeed the wider Nottinghamshire sporting public, some serious explanation as to how he almost destroyed one of our 'flagship' sporting brands. Some interesting stuff here in a Telegraph article which sort of aligns with my thoughts (although the article is based on few hard facts it seems): www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/leaguetwo/nottscounty/7301526/Sven-Goran-Eriksson-hatched-plan-to-lure-David-Beckham-to-Notts-County.htmlThat just seems to clarify my thoughts, Trembling was in fantasy land, advised to look at the real picture he ignored it and carried on believing his own hype. Sadly, he was serious wrong in doing that. The defence of being conned by 'Munto' whoever they are, doesn't wash with me - if you claim to have the background and knowledge of business that PT claims he has then you would not have acted in such a way, abandoning all common sense and believing something that was clearly too good to be true.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 26, 2010 12:41:19 GMT
Also, without saturating this thread, anyone intrested in Notts would find this intresting viewing, its an interview with the chairman who sold us the munto dream in the first place, former chairman John Armstrong-Holmes: JAH Says sorry
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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 26, 2010 15:16:17 GMT
I'm not sure JAH can be held responsible although can see why he feels some blame - fair play to him for doing what he can to right some wrongs. At the end of the day he's got about the best chance of anyone of using the defence 'I was sold a dream that turned out not to be true, it wasn't my fault'. It's still not cast iron but he presumeably saw Munto's plans and bought into that dream (and crucially believed he was doing what was right for the club) - you could argue he should have seen through those plans however in comparison to Trembling he was always at arms length. Trembling was inside the whole thing and if he could not see the massive problems coming he is either stupid (I think we know that isn't the case) or had other motives for believing (or appearing to believe) the pie in the sky bull he was spouting.
The fact remains, as i've said above, PT has a lot to answer for. Hiding behind the 'it was those nasty Munto boys' is just garbage, he was the top man, the front man, he carries the can. I suspect PT may not be too eager for the boys in blue to begin the investigations Trew has invited them in to begin - he may not have done anything wrong in a criminal sense but i'm sure there will be much info that comes out which sheds some light on his true motives.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Feb 26, 2010 15:42:18 GMT
I'm not sure JAH can be held responsible although can see why he feels some blame - fair play to him for doing what he can to right some wrongs. At the end of the day he's got about the best chance of anyone of using the defence 'I was sold a dream that turned out not to be true, it wasn't my fault'. It's still not cast iron but he presumeably saw Munto's plans and bought into that dream (and crucially believed he was doing what was right for the club) - you could argue he should have seen through those plans however in comparison to Trembling he was always at arms length. Trembling was inside the whole thing and if he could not see the massive problems coming he is either stupid (I think we know that isn't the case) or had other motives for believing (or appearing to believe) the pie in the sky bull he was spouting. The fact remains, as i've said above, PT has a lot to answer for. Hiding behind the 'it was those nasty Munto boys' is just garbage, he was the top man, the front man, he carries the can. I suspect PT may not be too eager for the boys in blue to begin the investigations Trew has invited them in to begin - he may not have done anything wrong in a criminal sense but i'm sure there will be much info that comes out which sheds some light on his true motives. Put down the PT bashing for a change fella, its pretty obvious what you think, fair enough its your opinion, but you can write a post which doesnt come back to slagging him off! Or can you? JAH is not blameless, he made all the claims and was the reason the trust gave up the club, claiming Munto are the most honest people hes ever met and it will be the biggest and best thing to ever happen to the club. Also claiming we have a cast iron, checked out contract saying they will put £5m into the club if it all goes wrong. None of that was true, he didnt do his homework and sold the club short. Since then it has been found he didnt declare some of the clubs debts (still to be paid of course) and has not been painted in a good light. I was involved with the club when he was chairman, he bullied people into beleiving what he beleived and made the people who questioned it look pathetic. In hindsight, those few who stood up to him were correct, but unless you were around you wouldnt have seen what hapened. That said, I dont blame him for the end result of what happened, but hes far from blameless. It was HIS job to check up on these guys and he didnt do it. He managed to escape before it all blew up and so avoided any press attention. Therefore, people who dont know what happened will sympathise with him because they beleive what they read.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Feb 26, 2010 15:49:26 GMT
My opinion Rich, and if the cap fits I don't see any reason not to reference it, not sure why you defend him so much, if he had done what he's done to Notts on the other side of the Trent he'd be a dead man walking, cannot for the life of me understand the slack he's being cut by Notts fans.
FWIW I take what you say about JAH on board, although my differential is that his fault was more incompetence whereas PTs was wider and more sinister. I guess the point you make is that he wasn't just a little naive but actually wholly blind to what was in front of him and also too quick to hand over the reigns without properly checking everything out.
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Post by Rich on Feb 26, 2010 16:22:23 GMT
My opinion Rich, and if the cap fits I don't see any reason not to reference it, not sure why you defend him so much, if he had done what he's done to Notts on the other side of the Trent he'd be a dead man walking, cannot for the life of me understand the slack he's being cut by Notts fans. FWIW I take what you say about JAH on board, although my differential is that his fault was more incompetence whereas PTs was wider and more sinister. I guess the point you make is that he wasn't just a little naive but actually wholly blind to what was in front of him and also too quick to hand over the reigns without properly checking everything out. Im not defending him, Im just bored of reading your opinion. I stopped defending him several pages ago. Thats the point re JAH yes, but also the way he went about it was what sticks in my mind. There was a meeting about it for the fans, I went down there to report on it and the people who stood up and asked legitimate questions about Munto were bullied out of the room and belittled by JAH who chaired the meeting. Naive doesnt cover all of that, he lied. He stood in front of a group of fans and said things that were totally untrue, as well as giving opinions which in hindsight were a long way off. People had no choice but to follow his opinion. He gave the club to Munto, they appointed PT. Despite all of that, I dont despise JAH, he just genuinely confused his opinion on things with fact, and when challenged about his opinion made up "facts" to support it. It will be interesting to see what the police make of it all if they are given the time to investigate it properly (IMO they should as a lot can be learnt and it would benefit the sport). They are the people who need to get to the bottom of it all. JAH LIED, Munto LIED, PT is still murky IMO as he was stupid, but its still to be proven whether he actually lied or whether he just beleived his own fantasy. As for "dead man walking", I dont represent the entire Notts fan base, Im sure there are people who feel very differently and would probably resort to physical violence given the chance!
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Post by Shorty on Mar 2, 2010 13:15:20 GMT
It says in the Evening Post that its now £7 million, and they are going to start selling season tickets for next year early, in a bid to get some more money in now. Never a good thing to do - Cardiff have done it this season and if they dont get promoted will be screwed.
How many season ticket holders are there at Notts? Is three thousand a good guess? 3000 @ £400 a pop = £1.2 million. Not a bad sum to raise, although I think there will be a good number waiting to see what happens to the club before they decide.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Mar 2, 2010 15:45:55 GMT
It says in the Evening Post that its now £7 million, and they are going to start selling season tickets for next year early, in a bid to get some more money in now. Never a good thing to do - Cardiff have done it this season and if they dont get promoted will be screwed. How many season ticket holders are there at Notts? Is three thousand a good guess? 3000 @ £400 a pop = £1.2 million. Not a bad sum to raise, although I think there will be a good number waiting to see what happens to the club before they decide. Yep, wont argue with any of that. I wont be signing up, I think its an awful thing to do TBH but if it works Il be delighted. It went horribly wrong at Cardiff but that was a different situation. For a guy who claims he will be making unpopular cuts and having a cull with major decisions being made, Ray Trew is doing a heck of a job if he can make everything balance out. Kasper will be gone, Jackson will be gone and I can see a few players being asked to renogtiotiate (rumours are about Ade Akinbiyi and a few others who are not integral to the club)but if we can go up and keep the buzz going I think we can an least be sustainable. I just cannot see how we could be profit making, in order to clear the £7m and pay back the investors. A great 5-0 win on Saturday has kept spirits up ahead of tonights home game with Macclesfield. Then, the next 4 home games could decide the entire season as we play Bournemouth (2nd),Bury (3rd), Rotherham(4th) and Chesterfield (5th)! We also play 1st placed Rochdale at home yet in an incredible run of games. To say its in our own hands is an understatement!
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Post by pantherinmanc on Mar 2, 2010 16:05:33 GMT
To be fair I think Cardiff's situation was slightly different. It makes sense to lay your hands on any money you can as soon as you can when you are Notts' position. It is March, a lot of clubs start selling next years ST's from mid-April anyway. Say they raise 1m by doing this, that may well be enough to fend off the creditors in the short term and avoid a crisis over the summer where bills still come in but revenue from games doesn't. There is always the danger that you can't stem the flow and the £7m becomes higher and higher and simply outstrips the inroads you make - however reducing the overheads is a separate exercise to pacifying the creditors in the short term.
I can't see how the club can become profitable either Rich, at least not in the short term, but the first target is just to get to a point where the creditors have payment plans in place that are being met, no doubt some of those may need renegotiating more than once but keeping those creditors happy will go a long way to ensuring long term survival.
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Post by Dan on Mar 4, 2010 21:29:02 GMT
This debt is rising steadily by the day, what exactly is Trew going to do to stem this? It seems like there's not much he can do, it's not like Notts are a particularly profitable enterprise.
For me, you've got to get players like Schmeichel out of there. Loan him out for a fee now, then reduce that fee from the permanent transfer when he eventually leaves. There's no way you can afford him.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Mar 5, 2010 11:28:20 GMT
This debt is rising steadily by the day, what exactly is Trew going to do to stem this? It seems like there's not much he can do, it's not like Notts are a particularly profitable enterprise. For me, you've got to get players like Schmeichel out of there. Loan him out for a fee now, then reduce that fee from the permanent transfer when he eventually leaves. There's no way you can afford him. Thats how it appears, but Id say RT disagrees, otherwise he would have taken it on. Hes got a good business background, so wouldnt just throw money around "all over the place" so the fact hes put a fair whack into the club is reason for confidence we will get through it all. We cannot afford Kasper, but I reckon we would get 500k for him in the summer (talk of £1m+ is optimistic). Then, we lose his wage, Akinbiyi, probably Jackson and a few fringe players and I dont think we are left with a particularly high wage bill. Trew confirmed categorically Hughes and Davies will still be here next season which was a bold statement to make and reassured lots of worried fans. Still, as I said the on pitch matters are very important over the next few weeks. A few big gates, a big buzz and promotion VS dwindling attendance, negativity around the club and another season in L2 could be the difference between short term survival with a longer term plan and Ray Trew cutting his losses or putting us into administration and risking conference football with crazy debts. After the 2 wins Sat and Tues, the next 4 home games are our season.
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Post by Alf Garnett on Mar 8, 2010 17:51:18 GMT
Steve Cotterill is GOD!!
3 games 3 wins and 3 clean sheets. Big games coming thick and fast now and it will depend on the squad being able to keep up the momentum. I do feel we are short on depth though and that we coud posibly run out of legs.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Mar 11, 2010 12:51:22 GMT
Make that 4 wins with 4 clean sheets!!
He seems to be doing a fantastic job, as most people thought he would tbh. Very good point re depth, but personally I think too much is being made of the issue,we've got enough to cover most areas and still win games.
One point which won't go away is where are these big cuts we were told would come in. Ray Trew threatened big changes which would be unpopular,and it seems the opposite is happening as he goes beyond all expectations. He's said notts will have their embargo lifted next week and proclaimed we are going up as champions! Hardly the doom and gloom many (including himself) had predicted. The debt has increased also, and again he has claimed he's not worried! I think notts fans are very happy right now, a win Monday v 2nd place bournemouth would cement that. I just worry we've got another chairman who is not telling the full story, despite stating he will give complete,honest transparency.
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Post by pantherinmanc on Mar 11, 2010 15:50:55 GMT
Maybe he's shielding the facts so as not to affect morale of the team? Not saying that is right or fair on the wider Notts community (ie the fans) but maybe the team are doing so well at the minute that he doesn't want to hamper that?
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Shorty
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Post by Shorty on Mar 11, 2010 16:58:28 GMT
Does anyone think its a possibility that Trew will get the club promoted, and then go into administration in Division One. I doubt they would be the only club in that division that it would happen to next season. That would ensure a higher level of football than if he decided to do it this season, or alternatively he is just playing the waiting game to see if they can go ten points clear of third place before doing it.
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Post by Alf Garnett on Mar 11, 2010 17:29:55 GMT
Does anyone think its a possibility that Trew will get the club promoted, and then go into administration in Division One. I doubt they would be the only club in that division that it would happen to next season. That would ensure a higher level of football than if he decided to do it this season, or alternatively he is just playing the waiting game to see if they can go ten points clear of third place before doing it. Personally I think that Trew can see us through to the end of this season. What will happen in summer is anyones guess though administration is a possibility then. One rumour that I have heard is that Notts will try to sekk Schmeichel to a higher division club and get him back on a season long loan. Not sure how much substance there is to this, but it could be a possibility.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Mar 12, 2010 9:51:28 GMT
That was in the evening post alf so certainly possible. He's really benefitted from this season, he looks twice the keeper he was early on.
Administration wouldn't solve enough of our problems still so unless things change, I doubt its worth rocking the boat. Trew also stated on Monday that hughes has signed a 2 year pre contract agreement to stay at notts (rumour is he's taken a wage cut) which will kick in once we've had the embargo lifted.
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Rich
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Post by Rich on Mar 22, 2010 9:31:46 GMT
Another win grinded out, with another clean sheet as Notts win 1-0 at Crewe and move up into 2nd place. Disappointing we let the 93rd minute equaliser in against Bournemouth, otherwise we would be well clear of them, but promotion is certainly in our hands!
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sunbeam
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Post by sunbeam on Mar 22, 2010 13:07:56 GMT
My ST holder mate tells me the rumour is that Notts will go in to Admin next season.
Makes sense. Go up and then lose the points and debt.
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