Another cheap shot

[sawchuk]

Time for action to be taken against the so called "tough guys" currently doing the rounds in the NHL.

Disgusting hit

Janssen=cheap shot merchant

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

Late hit yes, horribly late, but technically its a clean hit (no penalty called at the time either).

It is however, in no way at all 'a Bertuzzi'.

And Janssen is not a cheap shot merchant.

[sawchuk]

ozrollersnake said:

Late hit yes, horribly late, but technically its a clean hit (no penalty called at the time either).

You can argue along technicalities all you want, the league however are reviewing the hit and quite right too. Janssen had no reason to check Kaberle as the Toronto player didnt have the pcuk & wasn't even in a offensive position.

ozrollersnake said:

It is however, in no way at all 'a Bertuzzi'.

Never made any comparison between the two, so quite what this cheap shot has to do with Bertuzzi V Moore I don't know.

ozrollersnake said:

And Janssen is not a cheap shot merchant.

Cam Janssen doesn't have one tenth of the talent Tomas Kaberle has & is nothing more than a ten a penney goon. Go look at Janssen's career statistics...one goal is his only NHL point.

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

Technicalities are important - its those things that make a hit clean or not eg, if there's an elbow out.

The league are quite right, the hit should be reviewed and Janssen should get 3 games at least.

Its relevant to the Bertuzzi - Moore incident because that was undoubtedly a cheap shot, this wasnt a cheap shot, it was a late hit.

Having watched a lot of Janssen this year I assue you he is no goon, he is a role player there to do a certain job. He doesnt get the ice time to put up points, he plays against top lines and is there to shut them down, not score points against them. He is a tough guy, not a goon. He deserves to be suspended but not branded a goon.

[sawchuk]

ozrollersnake said:

The league are quite right, the hit should be reviewed and Janssen should get 3 games at least.

You said a few minutes ago that it was a clean hit, yet you're saying it warrants <at minimum> a three game ban.

Bizarre



The NHL obviously didn't think it was a clean hit either as Janssen has been suspended for three games, while Kaberle now misses between one-two weeks when the team is fighting for a play off spot.

What an f-ing joke



NJ's "tough guy" suspended

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

You misunderstand, and it aint bizzare.

The physical action of the hit itself was clean. But it was very late.

There is a difference between a clean hit and a late hit.

The lateness warrents a ban.

[sawchuk]

ozrollersnake said:

You misunderstand, and it aint bizzare.

The physical action of the hit itself was clean. But it was very late.

There is a difference between a clean hit and a late hit.

The lateness warrents a ban.

No, it was a blind side hit & Kaberle never saw it coming as his eyes are clearly looking across ice to where he's just puck the puck <to Colaiacovo>

There was absolutely no reason for Janssen to check Kaberle, as I have previously said, Kaberle wasn't in a scoring position or even in NJ's own zone. If he had of been, he'd have been a legitimate target to receive a check.

I'll add this quote from Scott Everson who writes for the NY Post <and therefore isn't a biased Toronto writer>

"Janssen delivered his left shoulder to Kaberle's cheek and Kaberle's head whipped into the boards"

Like I said, not a clean hit at all unless you feel body checking someone's head is legit.

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

Ok, firstly a NY writer is more often than not biased against New Jersey, for obvious reasons.

Secondly, as I have stated elsewhere, you must have your head up at all times in hockey, something ive been taught since the moment I started playing. If Kaberle had been hit in NJ's zone, would you have taken as much issue with the hit? I would have.

Players often finish their hits for whatever reason, to make a statement, for momentum etc. - I have seen many similar hits go unpunished this year, the only difference being the lateness.

Considering our different perspectives, what would you suggest suspension-wise?

[sawchuk]

ozrollersnake said:

Ok, firstly a NY writer is more often than not biased against New Jersey, for obvious reasons.

So Everson is biased against the Devils? I don't know, I've never read anything of his before, however he clearly states Janssen body checked Kaberle in the cheek area. You haven't addressed that statement other than in your own assesment that the NJ player hasn't done anything wrong.

I guess your refusal to be drawn on that point means you have no issue with players body checking one another to the head?

ozrollersnake said:

Secondly, as I have stated elsewhere, you must have your head up at all times in hockey, something ive been taught since the moment I started playing.

Kaberle did have his head up, go and watch the footage once more and you'll see he's watching Colaiacovo collect the pass he'd just made.

ozrollersnake said:

If Kaberle had been hit in NJ's zone, would you have taken as much issue with the hit? I would have.

I've already stated that had Kaberle been in the NJ zone he'd have been a legitimate target to receive a check. If the same check had occured however, I would have objected in the same manner.

It was a cheap late hit that has no place in the game.

ozrollersnake said:

Players often finish their hits for whatever reason, to make a statement, for momentum etc. - I have seen many similar hits go unpunished this year, the only difference being the lateness.

"To make a statement..." why? There hadn't been any cheap shots from the Leafs in that game & NJ were leading the game when Janssen elected to hit Kaberle. The only statement I can think that Janssen wanted to make was he wanted to state his claim as being the only tough guy in that game, as the Leafs scratched Belak from the roster.

"Momentum?" The Devils were leading 1-0 so I have can find no logical reason as to what momentum needed to be found from a Devils' perspective. The only momentum it generated was that Paul Maurice stated to the Leaf players "we aren't losing this game." The hit changed the game & Janssen was benched by his own coach from that point onwards.

ozrollersnake said:

Considering our different perspectives, what would you suggest suspension-wise?

I think the three game ban is a joke & Janssen should have been banned for a minimum of 5-8 games as I don't accept checking to the head is a part of hockey.

[maxfax]

Looks like a major shoulder-ing to the head..& a MAJOR ban looks warranted.

[heja]

2mins interference is all he should of got, wasn't that bad a hit, max he should of got is 2+2+10 imo(2 interference and 2+10 for checking to the head)

definitly doesn't deserve a ban or fine of any kind

[mattscold]

I agree a ban is warrented, it is a very late, very high hit, but i think 3 games is right no longer in my view.

[heja]

No, it was a blind side hit & Kaberle never saw it coming as his eyes are clearly looking across ice to where he's just puck the puck <to Colaiacovo>

one of the first things your taught, never watch were you have just played or shot the puck as you are garunteed to get your head taken off.

players look for guys with there head down or who are not ready to take a hit, if they are ready there no point hitting them asyour just going to bounce off

[sawchuk]

heja said:

No, it was a blind side hit & Kaberle never saw it coming as his eyes are clearly looking across ice to where he's just puck the puck <to Colaiacovo>

one of the first things your taught, never watch were you have just played or shot the puck as you are garunteed to get your head taken off.

That doesn't excuse the check to the head or the lateness of the check.

heja said:

players look for guys with there head down or who are not ready to take a hit, if they are ready there no point hitting them asyour just going to bounce off

I'll say again there was no reason what so ever for Janssen to check Kaberle full stop. He wasn't in possession of the puck & even if he had of been, it was so far behind the play regaining possession of the puck would have been useless as there weren't even any NJ players in the Toronto zone.

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

As Heja has said, and as I posted elsewhere earlier in the week when discussing the Drury hit, keeping your head up is not standing there watching your pretty pass, its being aware of whats going on around you.

No I am not a fan of high hits, but if you watch the clip, Kaberle noticeably drops before Janssen makes contact, which is the main reason IMO that its shoulder to cheek, and not Janssen's fault.

Did you watch the game? There is more to a game and its momentum than just who is winning! NJ may have been under the cosh, and for the same reason may have wanted Janssen to go out and make a statement.

Would you like to see the approach of 'youre banned as long as the player you hit is out'?

The league, the highest governing body, have given 3 games, and for me that is right.

[sawchuk]

Hang on, one minute you're saying the hit was a clean one but now you're agreeing with me that the check was infact a check to the opponent's head...

Let me ask you for the 3rd time, is checking the head of your opponent legitimate or not in your opinion? A simple yes or no is required for the answer.

[heja]

I think it was just slightly miss time not really an out and out illegal hit as i said 2+2+10 would of been more than fair for what he actully did and ozr said he thinks 3 games is fair

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

No, anyone that goes out with the intent to check to the head is a goon.

But look at the footage! Kaberle drops before contact is made, therefore it is not Janssen's fault, how can you then call for Janssen to get 7, 8, 9 + games? Remember Tim Connolly's hit on RJ Umberger? That was to the head for the same reason, completely clean, but Umberger was crouched low and so got hurt.

End of the day, it was a very late hit and derserves a ban for the lateness, which has been given!

There are some Leafs fans calling for Janssen to be thrown out the league.

What ban/action would you suggest and why?

[newham]

I'm not sure if he aimed for the head to be honest, Kaberle ducked slightly just before the hit i think.

EDIT: That's not to say it wasn't a disgusting hit.

[sawchuk]

ozrollersnake said:

No, anyone that goes out with the intent to check to the head is a goon.

But look at the footage! Kaberle drops before contact is made, therefore it is not Janssen's fault, how can you then call for Janssen to get 7, 8, 9 + games? Remember Tim Connolly's hit on RJ Umberger? That was to the head for the same reason, completely clean, but Umberger was crouched low and so got hurt.

End of the day, it was a very late hit and derserves a ban for the lateness, which has been given!

There are some Leafs fans calling for Janssen to be thrown out the league.

What ban/action would you suggest and why?

I don't think Janssen should be thrown out of the league, and I haven't spoken with any Leaf fans since the hit that have called for such a measure either.

I do however think that any hit to the head should be immediate 5 game suspension, no pay & with the possibility of more games added on if the league warrant it.

[sawchuk]

According to Leafs' enforcer Wade Belak Janssen will get his just desserts on March 20th, when the two teams lock horns.

As long as it's legal, I hope Belak pounds him into the ice

[Alf Garnett]

ozrollersnake said:

Remember Tim Connolly's hit on RJ Umberger? That was to the head for the same reason, completely clean, but Umberger was crouched low and so got hurt.

Slightly different scenario. RJ Umberger had just taken a pass from a team mate and tried to initiate a counter attack. He had just taken possesion of the puck and was therefore a legitimate target. He had barely taken a stride and had little or no time to look up after he had controlled the pass. Another difference was that there was not a single Philly player who said that the hit on RJ was dirty.

Also was it not Campbell on RJ (if it is the hit we are talking about?)

[heja]

but someone said that any hit to the head area should be accompained by a big ban, did he or did he not check him to the head, thats why that would be a stupid rule

johanson was probably told to go out and finish his hits on that shift to get some momentum which is what he did but he i dunno looks to of got a bit carried away.

definitly now where near as bad as some hits we see in our games week in week out

[ozrollersnake-in-exile]

Of course, when I say Conolly, i meant Campbell

I know circumstances were difference, I didnt say they were the same. My point is that there was contact to the head there, but it was still a clean hit.

[sawchuk]

Looks like Kaberle is done for the season



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