This is how to get your bank charges back!

[Nemesis]

Quality!!

A man who was fed up with paying massive bank charges decided to give one of the high street giants a taste of its own medicine.

When Royal Bank of Scotland refused to refund £3,400 charges that Declan Purcell believed he was owed, he sent in the bailiffs.

Stunned customers at his branch of RBS watched as debt collectors seized four computers, two fax machines and a till filled with cash.

:lol:

Baliffs make withdrawal


link fixed

[ted]

Pillocks.

To be fair... unfair or not.... people knew the charges when they signed up for credit cards and bank accounts... they should have been more careful not to rack up those charges.

No sympathy from me im afraid!

At the minute Im very aware of my financial situation and if i think im not gonna make a DD payment or go overdrawn i make steps to avoid doing so.

If i do.... (which I havent yet) you an bet it will only happen once... Not to the tune of over £3k

[Doughnut]

The thing is it's not that simple. Most contracts for banks, credit cards etc. will state their charges (or tell you where to find them) but will also say that the charges are subject to change. However if you breach a contract (in this case with a bank by going overdrawn without permission for example) under English or Scottish law, any charge should be no higher than the cost of breaching that contract. i.e. the banks can only impose charges which are in proportion to their costs.

What (thousands of) people are (successfully) claiming against the banks over is the fact that the banks' charges in such cases (especially if they've been increased since the account was set up) are not reasonable and are much higher than is necessary to cover their admin costs. These bank charges are unlawful, which is why the banks have been settling out of court or losing their court cases. It's also why the Office of Fair Trading is investigating the matter.

All that aside, I find this particular case amusing as it's nice to see the bank (rather than me!) coming off worse as a result of them making an unfortunate "administrative error".


P.S. the fact that the T&C of your contract includes these charges is irrelevant: a contract must be written within the law, and they can’t enforce a contract with legally unfair terms. Ultimately if it isn't proportionate then it's unlawful, and thus you've a right to your money back.

[Doughnut]

Luckily (depending on how you look at it) I'm not in this situation, but if you've had bank charges in the past 6 years, then have a look at this guide on how to go about trying to reclaim them: www.moneysavingexpert.com/bankcharges

[cat]

true.... but like said... a lot of stuff isnt fair... If a bank had called it a fee or a fine... then theyd be ok?

In fairness I dont think it really costs £150 to release your car when its clamped... but most of that is a punishment for breaking the terms of your contract/parking regulations.

Course.... banks know they cant win because they cant justify those charges and thus, no bank has ever gone so far as court with them.

Of course as well.. banks could always close your account... give you your money bank and say cheerio.... that wont look good on your credit record!

Dont get me wrong... im not saying banks are in the right.... what I am saying though is individuals who cant manage their finances shouldnt be given extra help just because they kick up a fuss.

(Ted btw... cant be bothered to log out)

[Peacock]

cat said:

Of course as well.. banks could always close your account... give you your money bank and say cheerio.... that wont look good on your credit record!

Whilst the Banks can, and have closed accounts for this reason, it's not legally allowed to appear on your credit record as it's the bank that has acted illegaly, not you as the customer.

Ted, you said

I am saying though is individuals who cant manage their finances shouldnt be given extra help just because they kick up a fuss.

The point is that people aren't getting extra help, they are just making sure the Bank complies with existing Law.

This site explains the whole process...
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6170209.stm

[Frodo]

i think its about time something was done about these charges. ok you have to mismanage your finances before to get the intial charge but like in the case of my girlfriend the extra charges have caused her real problems and without those charges or them being at a fair rate she wudn not have been in such a financial mess. banks take the wee on so many levels its about time they got stung, i.e credit card payments, as a bank a c.card pyment is taken straight away but the money doesnt appear in the recipeints acc till 30 days later!

ive recently tested the water with a minor claim which is yet to be finalised but the bbc web page is brilliant adivce. tell as many people as you can, not because i hate the banks but because people deserve their money back from over charging.

26/01/07: Just had confirmation through that the bank has refunded the full amount within 3 working days thats fast!

[ted]

Credit card payments are taken immediately but it all depends if the recipient has to put it through a holding bank etc. That increases the process. The fact it doesnt appear on the recipients account for that long is nothing to do with the credit card issuer

Even if banks did charge a fair amount (lets say £5) people would still moan 'it isnt fair'.

Banks should call it a fine, or a penalty fee. That is in effect what it actually is.

British Gas are introducing charges for late payments of gas and electric bills. Good. It takes stuff like that to make people realise that they cant just coast through, they have to actually take action to get something done and cant just moan 'Its not fair'.

Frodo... no offense intended but ok those charges made it hard for you g/f... but if she had managed her finances properly to start with (that includes having a bit put by for emergency) then it wouldnt have mattered so much.

[Doughnut]

Ted, I do see your point, and managing my finances well is the main reason I've never had any trouble with bank charges, but it's not the only reason. I've also been lucky enough to have had parents who were in a position to help me start my adult life on a good footing, and also lucky enough to have not had anything happen to me that would put me in serious trouble. However, it's not always that simple. Things sometimes happen that put people in situations they weren't prepared for and it's not necessarily their fault. It can happen to almost anyone, and if unfair and unlawful bank charges are making it harder for people that find themselves in difficulty then I'd be happy to see the back of them.

[ted]

Fair play, I see what you mean, my generalisations dont apply to everyone but in my experience, working in customer services for a bank, the ones who genuinely get themselves in a mess through no fault of their own... are apologetic and embarrassed and I want to help them the mostly through empathy.

The ones who kick up a huge fuss and go to the press (and continue to build up massive debts through charges) are the ones who just cant look after themselves or their finances and just cant cope i nthe real world.

Take anotehr example.... all these pillocks on TV whinging their electric company has been estimating their bills and they suddenly hit them with a £2k bill.... Its not like that stuff goes un monitored, they will have been sent letters, and they probably ignored them. More than once, they would have seen bills saying ESTIMATED bill.... but still think nothing of it.... then somehow its not their fault?

People just need to take responsibility for themselves instead of blaming unfair charges or dodgy practices

[charlish2099]

maybe the banks should offer finance counceling to there cusomers more freely, most banks are starting to charge for there accounts any way so it could be part of the service, there was a lot of stuff i did not understand about money when i started earning and spending, if i knew what i know now i would of been a lot better off, Banks should take responsibility to help customers understand the ins and outs of money management.

I agree some people get into debt because of stupidity, but some people just dont understand.

[ted]

its not a banks job to educate you.

They tell you what you need to know in the terms and conditions. If its not clear when you read them you ask. If you dont agree or still dont understand dont sign anything till it is.

Theres stuff i didnt know about applying for and getting a mortgage... so I asked. Its not difficult. Its about taking responsibility for yourself. Deliberately hiding something is different though.

[charlish2099]

im not saying hide stuff deliberatley, but some people out there dont get it! its not there job to educate but it could be a service, you know one of those things they offer to help customers out instead of not money grabbing for a change, not everyone knows what questions to ask and some times it all gets confusing i was when i first got all my bank stuff, its a lot to take on board.

[Rob #12]

ted said:

its not a banks job to educate you.

They tell you what you need to know in the terms and conditions. If its not clear when you read them you ask. If you dont agree or still dont understand dont sign anything till it is.

Theres stuff i didnt know about applying for and getting a mortgage... so I asked. Its not difficult. Its about taking responsibility for yourself. Deliberately hiding something is different though.

But there is such a thing as responsible lending. I know what you are saying. You know Julie works in the same field and everyday and I get to hear the stories.

But if you sell a product, it is your job to provide support in the event of problems with that product. Look at alcohol firms, how much they have to bang on about drink awareness and sensible drinking. The effects of stress due to financial hardship can sometimes be just as damaging as drink problems.

I went £4 something over my overdraft due to a DD and I forgot about my intrest. I realised and put money into the account from my savings but as it was past 3 o'clock (end of business day) it was too late. I tried to ring them to explain but they were too busy and going home. There was no charge mentioned in my statement, so I thought it would be okay as I was marginally over. They then took £28 from me and didn't tell me it was coming, which took me over again. Their charge took me over! So they want to charge me another £28. I am going in today to sort it out because £56 charges for going £4 overdrawn is bang out of order and NOT responsible lending IMHO.

Rob

[Kimberley]

aspertarion said:

ted said:

its not a banks job to educate you.

They tell you what you need to know in the terms and conditions. If its not clear when you read them you ask. If you dont agree or still dont understand dont sign anything till it is.

Theres stuff i didnt know about applying for and getting a mortgage... so I asked. Its not difficult. Its about taking responsibility for yourself. Deliberately hiding something is different though.

But there is such a thing as responsible lending. I know what you are saying. You know Julie works in the same field and everyday and I get to hear the stories.

But if you sell a product, it is your job to provide support in the event of problems with that product. Look at alcohol firms, how much they have to bang on about drink awareness and sensible drinking. The effects of stress due to financial hardship can sometimes be just as damaging as drink problems.

I went £4 something over my overdraft due to a DD and I forgot about my intrest. I realised and put money into the account from my savings but as it was past 3 o'clock (end of business day) it was too late. I tried to ring them to explain but they were too busy and going home. There was no charge mentioned in my statement, so I thought it would be okay as I was marginally over. They then took £28 from me and didn't tell me it was coming, which took me over again. Their charge took me over! So they want to charge me another £28. I am going in today to sort it out because £56 charges for going £4 overdrawn is bang out of order and NOT responsible lending IMHO.

Rob

Just a question Rob, why not ring up or pop into a branch the next day. To explain to them what happened , did you ring the bank to say i forgot about d/d going to transfer the money across now. Banks are reasonable as long as you explain what is going on they are not psychic. don't get me wrong branch staff can be a little lax. But they have a lot of work so sometimes get a little harrased. a bank is required to give you the benefit of the doubt if things like this rarely happen to you are you go to them they are usually reasonable at refunding, waiving or sorting out half of your charge. But you have to have a calm discussion with the bank and state your case.

But the majority of people are not as as reasonable they bury their head in the sand with regaurd to the charges and then mnths down the line when banks filter them out as problem cases.they then decide they want charges back. why not be proactive and deal as you plan to swiftly before huge amounts of chrgs accrue and the contact staff have no power to deal with them. we all get statments each month so why not deal with things when we find out about them instead of pretending that we do not have to deal with it.

I think the point ted has been trying to make is that a lot of people who are kicking off about chrgs are the kind of people who continue to make card paymets, write cheques or have direct debits on an account that they know they have no money in but instead of doing something about it they would rather blame someone else because they cannot be bothered to manage their bank accounts properly.

[Rob #12]

Well I tried to phone my branch that same day at 4:55 after I got home from work. Guess what I got told everyone had gone home and to just do an Internet transfer, which I had already done.

Not only that, but my statement didn't show a charge to go on, so I assumed that it had been waived, as this is where charges show.

I have tried to speak to them calmly but they didn't seem to think the above was a bank error.

However I went in on Sat for review and the woman there wasn't happy with the service I had and said I should have them refunded. Let's see.

I know there are people who are going to jump on this bandwagon of getting money back, some who don't deserve it. But the whole process of charging £30 regardless of how much it cost the bank to sort is poor.

[Luca Toni]

Sorry TeddyC and any other apologists for banks - they are bloodsuckers and irresponsible quite often in their lending practices. Understanding how financial things work is not always easy and not everyone, quite frankly, is responsible enough in the first place to be able to sort out their own finances. This doesn't stop irresponsible banks from loaning money to whoever they fancy. Every penny a bank is owed somewhere down the line is their fault because they allowed said debtor to have access to funds in the first place. THEIR fault. Maybe if banks took a more responsible approach and made it HARDER to obtain their services in the first place there would be fewer debtors. But then the banks wouldn't be so rich and we can't have that can we?

PS I don't have a bank account and I don't give a monkeys what my "credit rating" is.

PPS Why can't banks simply make it impossible to go overdrawn? Thus, no charges and no customers put in schtuck. They will have to deposit new funds for the bill or whatever to be paid off at a future date. Sounds too easy doesn't it. And if you complain the banks make no money then then fine, charge for having an account in the first place. Most banks abroad do that.

[Kimberley]

Not to be a nit picker but i cannot see any bank error, most banks close around 4.45 and charge non penalty charges a month in arrears. now did you get charged for not having enough to cover the direct debit or just for being over drawn. it looks like on your review the bank acknowledged that they would do something about for you. hence my point that banks will be reasonable to customers who make genuine mistakes. As for them charging how about those people who right and guarantee cheques or make card payments that are high that the money in not in the bank to cover. the bank has to Honor these payments so why should it not charge for this. as i said previous repeat offenders are the people ruining the system and banks are usually reasonable with low amounts or genuine customer mistake

evgenimalkin - to pick up on the point you make banks are actually required to be responsible lender that is why you find most people complaining that they could not get and overdraft increase when they were struggling the banks are required to credit score when applying an increased borrowing limit hence the Catherine Tate [ i think] sketch where she sits there saying the computer says no.

Banks would not be allowed to nanny customers who are unable to manage money, or who fraudulently come by that money. while we all from time to time mismanage out money the charges are there because although it can be an oversight on our behalf's there are people out there who exploit loopholes and use all means possible to come by money that isn't theres and we have to pay. Its the same in every walk of life we all have to pay for the minority who ruin things for the majority.

Until a few years ago not everyone could have a bank account and then a huge fuss was kicked up about this so banks brought in limited accounts that cannot support overdrafts or have debit cards but even these have been exploited so what would you suggest the bank does.

[Luca Toni]

In my ideal world there would be no banks at all kimberley.

[ted]

OK. Banks would make it impossible to go overdrawn if they could. Shops have what is called a "Floor Limit". That is the minimum amount they will double check with your bank how much money you have.

Asda probably have it set about £10... they will only check you have the funds in your account if your spending over £10.

The garage forecourt probably have it set closer to £50. Thats because once you put that in your tank the garage need to be pretty sure they can take that money. So they wont check with your bank as long as its not over £50.

And on top of that... Ill bring it back round again... If you cant handle your finances you shouldnt really apply for cards. If banks made it next tom impossible to get an overdraft or a credit card they would be called ogres for making it too difficult for people.

My mum missed her credit card payment by 1 day. She rang, apologised and it was refunded without her expecting it to be. She didnt ask for it. As was said. the people making all the fuss in the papers are the ones who have so much bank charges they probably have trouble wiping their own backside.

If you cant manage credit cards... dont get one. If you cant drive and you go out and buy a car... is it the garages job to check you mentally capable to drive? No its not. If you cant drive, you go buy a car and smash it up... you cant go back to the garage and say 'You sold me that car, even though i cant drive, give me the money to get it fixed'

[Rob #12]

kimberley said:

Not to be a nit picker but i cannot see any bank error, most banks close around 4.45 and charge non penalty charges a month in arrears. now did you get charged for not having enough to cover the direct debit or just for being over drawn.

Well I had the money in my savings account, but it was for a direct debit. My bank close at 5 in person and people are there to answer the phones until 5:30. That is the bank error. They admitted as much. They should be taking calls at the time I phoned, simple. They couldn't or wouldn't take my call to sort it there and then.

But let's say I did make a mistake and left it, do you really think it costs the bank £60 odd quid to pay a direct debit which amounts to them having to use £4 of their own money? Don't think so.

[Peacock]

evgenimalkin said:

and I don't give a monkeys what my "credit rating" is.

You will. It's just a matter of time.

[Luca Toni]

peacock said:

evgenimalkin said:

and I don't give a monkeys what my "credit rating" is.

You will. It's just a matter of time.

No Peacock, I won't because I'm not in need of my own home (had one passed down to me) and I have no responsibilities in terms of kids, etc. So all the credit raters can go form a long queue to jump off a high bridge as far as I'm concerned. Like I said, I don't even have a bank account or a credit card. I intend to never have either. I'd prefer the inconvenience of saving and paying in cash to legalised robbery. Its the old principle of "if you can't pay for it, don't buy it". I might be a lot of things, but I don't owe a soul a penny. How many people can say that?

And as to what you said TeddyC (i.e. "If banks made it next tom impossible to get an overdraft or a credit card they would be called ogres for making it too difficult for people.") the answer is simple: not by me they wouldn't. Call me simple but didn't a bank used to be just somewhere you put your money to keep it safe?

[Doughnut]

I think "legalised robbery" is overstating the case somewhat!

Banks provide a service (an optional one let's not forget) and they make money from it. I don't see that as a problem at all. I'm actually quite glad that a bank was willing to lend me the money to buy my flat, and am also glad that another bank is willing to pay me interest rather than charge me for keeping my savings safe. I also think my bank and credit cards are a much easier and safer way to carry and spend money than taking a pile of cash around with me. Oh, and my credit card company pay me for using my card too and I've never payed them a penny for their service.

[fluffyfred]

aspertarion said:

kimberley said:

Not to be a nit picker but i cannot see any bank error, most banks close around 4.45 and charge non penalty charges a month in arrears. now did you get charged for not having enough to cover the direct debit or just for being over drawn.

Well I had the money in my savings account, but it was for a direct debit. My bank close at 5 in person and people are there to answer the phones until 5:30. That is the bank error. They admitted as much. They should be taking calls at the time I phoned, simple. They couldn't or wouldn't take my call to sort it there and then.

But let's say I did make a mistake and left it, do you really think it costs the bank £60 odd quid to pay a direct debit which amounts to them having to use £4 of their own money? Don't think so.

And not forgetting the balls up with Sky that time when they changed our DD date without notifying us. The bank charged us £15 at that time but they added charge after charge. I can't remember the reason for all of the charges going on but it worked out that we had in the region of £60 banged onto us within a couple of weeks.

Luckily, the bank were understanding about it but not before we kicked up a fuss because Sky refused to pay back the charges (like they should have done!). The long story of it, Sky had messed up but wouldn't admit it.

The occasional charge if you are careless with your finances is ok, but the £60 we got charged was a result of Sky being in breach of the Direct Debit guarantee and us not having online banking at the time so not having better access to our account.

I have been lucky with my own bank though and there was a time when I went over my overdraft several times because of paying by switch for things and forgetting about it. They were well within their rights to charge me, especially as I do my banking online, but they phoned me up and asked whether there was a problem. I said no, it was just me being a bit careless when using my card to pay for things. They knocked off at least £50 that I remember. I have always been very lucky with my bank though. I never even asked them to do that.