Joe
Lorne Smith
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Post by Joe on Apr 19, 2023 23:15:33 GMT
Yes there were better goalies but bar Beskorowany I think the difference between the rest of the starting goalies is fairly marginal The only imports with worse stats than Jones were.... Dubeau,Berry,Svensson,Lavigne,Taylor and Marotte. Yes Jones’ stats aren’t the best but having seen the defence in front of him this season can you honestly say you expected them to be. The way we’ve defended at times this season I’d expect even Beskorowany’s stats to look a little average. I’m not saying Jones can’t or shouldn’t be upgraded upon just that based on where the quality is right now I wouldn’t expect more than a decent ECHL goalie |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 19, 2023 23:17:59 GMT
Beskorowany is an outlier and I’d imagine Belfast will seriously struggle to bring in someone on his level when he decides to leave, as evidenced by the fact that they cut Jones to bring him back. There were 18 import goalies in the EIHL this year plus Bowns and Whistle as main Brits and only 6 of those had worse stats than Jones. Two of those 6 who had worse stats than Jones were Dubeau and Berry. I think that says it all really ! Not saying he was a league winning goalie on his own but for a start, you might at least want to exclude those NMs who played less than 10 games from your list. There's a reason there's normally a minimum minutes played before most reputable sites will rank NMs 😉 And as we've seen time and time again having the best NM in the league doesn't guarantee you a league title either. In 17/18 Bowns backstopped Cardiff to the title with a 90.86% save percentage - which this year would have put him about 3 places above Jones (90.41% in the league for Panthers). The clear standout NM that year on 92.46% - Patrick Galbraith of the Panthers. And both Steelers and Manchester had full season NMs who ranked higher than Bowns that year. But Bowns also made the big saves when it counted. And had the team in front of him to get it done as well. I'm not downplaying the role of the NM (they win championships) but just suggesting we compare like for like. You have NMs ahead of Jones in your ranking that played only 4 and 7 games. Besko played 18. Interestingly if you look only at import NMs who played 15-30 games he'd be 4th. There's a reason NM often want to play all the games to get a rhythm with their team Can NMs win you championships. Yes. Had Guildford had a better defense in front of their NMs this year I think they'd have won the league for sure. *But stats only tell you so much* ... After all, NMs are only as good as the defense they have in front of them too. Something Panthers proved in the worst way too often this season. But, perhaps most importantly, if it's just about the stats ranking 'to tell you all you need to know'...by your reckoning one of Edinburgh's 2017/18 NM's 90.10 Save Percentage would have been laughable and means they were no good and could never backstop a championship team. Similarly, by your argument, Giants idea that that player was the right NM for their team and their decision to sign him for the following season was a laughable choice. Because there were clearly "better" NMs out there That particular NM's name... ... a certain Tyler Beskorowany To use your phrase "I think that says it all really". |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
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Post by iginla on Apr 19, 2023 23:38:32 GMT
There were 18 import goalies in the EIHL this year plus Bowns and Whistle as main Brits and only 6 of those had worse stats than Jones. Two of those 6 who had worse stats than Jones were Dubeau and Berry. I think that says it all really ! Not saying he was a league winning goalie on his own but for a start, you might at least want to exclude those NMs who played less than 10 games from your list. There's a reason there's normally a minimum minutes played before most reputable sites will rank NMs 😉 And as we've seen time and time again having the best NM in the league doesn't guarantee you a league title either. In 17/18 Bowns backstopped Cardiff to the title with a 90.86% save percentage - which this year would have put him about 3 places above Jones (90.41% in the league for Panthers). The clear standout NM that year on 92.46% - Patrick Galbraith of the Panthers. And both Steelers and Manchester had full season NMs who ranked higher than Bowns that year. But Bowns also made the big saves when it counted. And had the team in front of him to get it done as well. I'm not downplaying the role of the NM (they win championships) but just suggesting we compare like for like. You have NMs ahead of Jones in your ranking that played only 4 and 7 games. Besko played 18. Interestingly if you look only at import NMs who played 15-30 games he'd be 4th. There's a reason NM often want to play all the games to get a rhythm with their team Can NMs win you championships. Yes. Had Guildford had a better defense in front of their NMs this year I think they'd have won the league for sure. *But stats only tell you so much* ... After all, NMs are only as good as the defense they have in front of them too. Something Panthers proved in the worst way too often this season. But, perhaps, most importantly if it's just about the stats ranking 'to tell you all you need to know'... ...by your reckoning one of Edinburgh's 2017/18 NM's 90.10 Save Percentage would have been laughable and means they were no good and could never backstop a championship team. Similarly, by your argument, Giants decision to sign him for the following season was a laughable choice. That particular NM's name... ... a certain Tyler Beskorowany To use your phrase "I think that says it all really" There only about two goalies above Jones who didn’t play many games,that still leaves plenty of others. As for Besko,look at his career it is littered with year after year of posting 91.9/92/93/94% saves percentage. The only glaring oddity being as you say his year in Edinburgh which came straight after a year out and then only 2 games in some strange league I’ve never even heard of and into a poor Caps team. Whether he’d come out of retirement or off an injury I don’t know,looks like it though. As for Jones,don’t forget he played some of his games with the Giants defence in front of him but his stats were no better. |
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Post by bobness on Apr 20, 2023 6:19:07 GMT
But that was first half of the season before Giants were the powerhouse they became following the changes they made. Prior to that they were a pretty decent, but not spectacular, team. As were their goalies.
Jones had a stellar start for Panthers, then a run of poor games, for whatever reason, ending it and ending up just above league average when all’s said and done.
They’re the facts.
We could argue all day, doesn’t prove anything.
I would argue a very good goalie is a very big part of the jigsaw of success though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2023 7:24:53 GMT
Will always remember when Steelers brought in Joel Laing. Now he was a exceptional goalie and had greats stats, but when his defence were only conceding 20 odd shots a game it somewhat inflated them.
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Post by bobness on Apr 20, 2023 11:10:55 GMT
Will always remember when Steelers brought in Joel Laing. Now he was a exceptional goalie and had greats stats, but when his defence were only conceding 20 odd shots a game it somewhat inflated them. I've noticed that Steelers have a tendency to award their visiting teams very low SOG counts. Whether that's actual or they perceive low shots against to be a "badge of honour", I'm not sure. What it does though, is deflate goalie stats. Greenfield had some pretty grim, statistically, games. 9/12 (Saves/shots) twice 11/14 13/17 All at home, all <80% SP. More shots recorded, his stats look better. |
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Apr 20, 2023 11:11:49 GMT
But that was first half of the season before Giants were the powerhouse they became following the changes they made. Prior to that they were a pretty decent, but not spectacular, team. As were their goalies. Jones had a stellar start for Panthers, then a run of poor games, for whatever reason, ending it and ending up just above league average when all’s said and done. They’re the facts. We could argue all day, doesn’t prove anything. I would argue a very good goalie is a very big part of the jigsaw of success though. That’d be the first half of the season when the Giants had Jones in goal then Bob, maybe that had something to do with it. They didn’t change their D though it was some of the forwards that got gassed. Have to feel a bit sorry for Whistle actually as his numbers were pretty good. |
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Post by Bagheera on Apr 20, 2023 11:44:35 GMT
Got to love a cage Tangent. From a rumour of Kelsall leaving it's somehow ended up with 2 pages discussing the ability of our most recent number one netminder.
Anybody fancy making up a rumour so we are at least almost on topic. 🤣
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Post by bobness on Apr 20, 2023 12:42:02 GMT
But that was first half of the season before Giants were the powerhouse they became following the changes they made. Prior to that they were a pretty decent, but not spectacular, team. As were their goalies. Jones had a stellar start for Panthers, then a run of poor games, for whatever reason, ending it and ending up just above league average when all’s said and done. They’re the facts. We could argue all day, doesn’t prove anything. I would argue a very good goalie is a very big part of the jigsaw of success though. That’d be the first half of the season when the Giants had Jones in goal then Bob, maybe that had something to do with it. They didn’t change their D though it was some of the forwards that got gassed. Have to feel a bit sorry for Whistle actually as his numbers were pretty good. In games where Jones was in net all game for Giants, he went 1.90 GAA, 91.83SP%. They are not shabby numbers. He had a couple of games where he got yanked, to be fair, they dragged him down. In the interests of fair play. Pre Besko (total) GP 31 GF avg 4.06, GA Avg 2.35, Shots against avg 24.9 Post GP 23 GF avg 4.47, GA Avg 2.00, Shots against avg 26.2 So the fwds got better and the D did too. Raine played early season only, Roach came in mid-season. My final word on this. Someone get us back on topic...  |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 20, 2023 13:13:16 GMT
Got to love a cage Tangent. From a rumour of Kelsall leaving it's somehow ended up with 2 pages discussing the ability of our most recent number one netminder. Anybody fancy making up a rumour so we are at least almost on topic. 🤣 Rumour is we're going to sign an import NM. Rumour is much discussion at that point will be had about his previous save percentages and how that compares to other NMs in the same leagues. Rumour is no one will actually have the slightest clue how he will ultimately perform until he's got a team in front of him. Rumour is, despite this, someone will say he's going to be gone by November. Rumour is I've got my fingers crossed someone does as, rumour is, that pretty much guarantees he'll turn it to be a total stud with a league leading percentage. 😂 |
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Yotes
Forum Admin 
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Post by Yotes on Apr 20, 2023 13:56:38 GMT
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iginla
Chick Zamick
Posts: 13,422
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Post by iginla on Apr 20, 2023 14:04:44 GMT
Got to love a cage Tangent. From a rumour of Kelsall leaving it's somehow ended up with 2 pages discussing the ability of our most recent number one netminder. Anybody fancy making up a rumour so we are at least almost on topic. 🤣 Rumour is we're going to sign an import NM. Rumour is much discussion at that point will be had about his previous save percentages and how that compares to other NMs in the same leagues. Rumour is no one will actually have the slightest clue how he will ultimately perform until he's got a team in front of him. Rumour is, despite this, someone will say he's going to be gone by November. Rumour is I've got my fingers crossed someone does as, rumour is, that pretty much guarantees he'll turn it to be a total stud with a league leading percentage. 😂 Rumour is it’ll be Pidge who says he’ll be gone by November ! 🤣🤣 |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2023 14:18:31 GMT
Rumour is we're going to sign an import NM. Rumour is much discussion at that point will be had about his previous save percentages and how that compares to other NMs in the same leagues. Rumour is no one will actually have the slightest clue how he will ultimately perform until he's got a team in front of him. Rumour is, despite this, someone will say he's going to be gone by November. Rumour is I've got my fingers crossed someone does as, rumour is, that pretty much guarantees he'll turn it to be a total stud with a league leading percentage. 😂 Rumour is it’ll be Pidge who says he’ll be gone by November ! 🤣🤣 Rumour is Tex will appear and say that signing looks cheap 🤣 Rumour is Iginla will say we should spend more on players than on the coaches and CEO! |
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Post by texpef on Apr 20, 2023 21:40:05 GMT
Rumour is it’ll be Pidge who says he’ll be gone by November ! 🤣🤣 Rumour is Tex will appear and say that signing looks cheap 🤣 Rumour is Iginla will say we should spend more on players than on the coaches and CEO! Please will you stop making unprovoked attacks at me, thankyou |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 5:37:16 GMT
Rumour is Tex will appear and say that signing looks cheap 🤣 Rumour is Iginla will say we should spend more on players than on the coaches and CEO! Please will you stop making unprovoked attacks at me, thankyou Chill out , it's a joke after what Iggy said 🙄 |
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Post by bobness on Apr 21, 2023 7:06:15 GMT
Please will you stop making unprovoked attacks at me, thankyou Chill out , it's a joke after what Iggy said 🙄 Well, that’s clearly not how it was received. The “Chill out, it’s only a joke” reply isn’t very clever, even if that was what you intended. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 7:20:24 GMT
Chill out , it's a joke after what Iggy said 🙄 Well, that’s clearly not how it was received. The “Chill out, it’s only a joke” reply isn’t very clever, even if that was what you intended. Did I go all mardy and told Iggy to stop picking on me from the previous post ? |
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Post by blackandgold73 on Apr 21, 2023 8:20:15 GMT
Well, that’s clearly not how it was received. The “Chill out, it’s only a joke” reply isn’t very clever, even if that was what you intended. Did I go all mardy and told Iggy to stop picking on me from the previous post ? Come on Pidge, you're now implying the person who objected to your comment is mardy. This is hardly helping your case. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2023 8:31:26 GMT
Did I go all mardy and told Iggy to stop picking on me from the previous post ? Come on Pidge, you're now implying the person who objected to your comment is mardy. This is hardly helping your case. What cause? I'm just waiting for this summer's signing news for someone to come on and say things which prove my point.. Can't wait 😁 Next time my name gets mentioned in a post I'll say stop attacking me then.. Anyway back on subject has anyone got any worthwhile rumours 😁👍 |
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 416
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Post by yeti on Apr 21, 2023 8:32:53 GMT
The only imports with worse stats than Jones were.... Dubeau,Berry,Svensson,Lavigne,Taylor and Marotte. Yes Jones’ stats aren’t the best but having seen the defence in front of him this season can you honestly say you expected them to be. The way we’ve defended at times this season I’d expect even Beskorowany’s stats to look a little average. I’m not saying Jones can’t or shouldn’t be upgraded upon just that based on where the quality is right now I wouldn’t expect more than a decent ECHL goalie |
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Post by bobness on Apr 21, 2023 8:37:39 GMT
Come on Pidge, you're now implying the person who objected to your comment is mardy. This is hardly helping your case. Anyway back on subject has anyone got any worthwhile rumours 😁👍 What cause? I'm just waiting for this summer's signing news for someone to come on and say things which prove my point.. Can't wait 😁 It'll probably be self-fulfilling, if prior years are anything to go by. I've given up on player predictions from last summer. On paper, that was a team that should've been challengers. Lots of experience, both in good European leagues, the EIHL itself and NA. But it was absolute carnage. It was the worst season to watch I've ever seen. Never before in 30+ years have I felt like walking out of a game, it was that bad, but I did (feel like it) a couple of games last season. Copy and paste. "Looks interesting, ask me again in December." |
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yeti
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 416
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Post by yeti on Apr 21, 2023 8:39:07 GMT
With Jones he was a decent Nettie. It is probably a bit unfair to just judge him on his final stats. When he came from Belfast his stats were in the top 3/4 in the league. Which goes to show how much a good defence makes to a goalies stats. Also how a few games with bad stats (defences fault or not) can drop a goalie right down the stats table.
So Jones with a good defence in front of him would be ok for a decent league run. Hopefully we can get better though.
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Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 751
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Post by Joe on Apr 23, 2023 12:16:07 GMT
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Joe
Lorne Smith
Posts: 751
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Post by Joe on Apr 23, 2023 12:16:30 GMT
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DMS
Robert Lachowicz
Posts: 574
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Post by DMS on Apr 23, 2023 12:30:04 GMT
Apparently we are losing a 4 horse race as it stands for Ollie.
I really hope we can turn that around because Ollie would be a top level Brit, he plays with the passion and the desire the new coach has said he wants from the team.
Tetlow…
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